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There was a guy just on with Cowherd(can't recall who) that said he totally believes that LeBron could be working a hush hush agreement with PG to play for Cleveland for 1 year then book to either the Lakers or the Clippers in 2018, whichever looks more promising.
Obviously it's a full on rumor, but it's spicy. I would hate it as a Cleveland fan, but at my core I'm a LeBron fan(1 year younger than him, grew up 15 minutes away, played against him a bunch, watched him in person even more) and it's getting rough to think we can supply him what he needs most for his legacy long term(rings), so I wouldn't begrudge him leaving; he got us the 1 for the land he promised.
Edit: He mentioned West being a huge boon for the Clips, saying that sources around the league believe LeBron has so much respect for history that the Logo will at minimum get LeBron in for an interview, and once that happens anything can happen. They say it's believed to be pretty much the entire reason Ballmer made the hire.
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Now rumors of attempts at multi-way trade for Butler to Cavs. These rumors really make the Cavs desperate to match GSW in the arms race.
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I find it hard to believe that the Cavs getting either George or Butler for only Love would amount to an equal trade, even if it is a three way trade. More likely the NBA is asking some shitty team to help the Cavs to make the GSW-Cle rivalry more spicy for $$$.
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On June 20 2017 06:53 red_ wrote:
There was a guy just on with Cowherd(can't recall who) that said he totally believes that LeBron could be working a hush hush agreement with PG to play for Cleveland for 1 year then book to either the Lakers or the Clippers in 2018, whichever looks more promising.
Obviously it's a full on rumor, but it's spicy. I would hate it as a Cleveland fan, but at my core I'm a LeBron fan(1 year younger than him, grew up 15 minutes away, played against him a bunch, watched him in person even more) and it's getting rough to think we can supply him what he needs most for his legacy long term(rings), so I wouldn't begrudge him leaving; he got us the 1 for the land he promised.
Edit: He mentioned West being a huge boon for the Clips, saying that sources around the league believe LeBron has so much respect for history that the Logo will at minimum get LeBron in for an interview, and once that happens anything can happen. They say it's believed to be pretty much the entire reason Ballmer made the hire.
for this to work, essentially lebron will tell everyone that he has gotten a guarantee from PG (or PG will say it himself) that he will resign with the cavs, because i dont think anyone in that organization would be ok with trading love who has 3 more years (2 + player option) for a 1 year rental, that would just be idiotic, because if they both left and love is not there, its just kyrie with no future.
and then after saying all this, lebron and PG just bolt out of cleveland which would make both of them look like complete assholes, and i dont think lebron would ruin his own legacy in cleveland like that, that'd probably be even worse than the first time he left.
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The Cavs have too many salary cap issues to close the gap on GSW. I don't even think they can become better than a healthy Spurs team.
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This is what's happening with the cavs this postseason...
I think after the last three years, or four years if you count 2014 spurs, gilbert sees that leboron is clearly on the decline and is not anymore a player that he can build the team around. Last year was courtesy of irving, not lebron. Gilbert is making hard boss moves, but i think one that will work out fine in the end. He has two options - keeping lebron and scavenging assets, or trading lebron and suddenly be a team with enough salary space to build a competitive with.
The only thing holding this back is the idea that lebron is crucial to get to the finals. The management no longer thinks this is the case. If they keep lebron, the best asset they have in the offseason is shumpert and love. Shumpert is useful on defense. Love is a great player who was victimized by lebron's "playmaking", being downgraded along with korver as ball watchers all game. They could compete with gsw if only lebron was a better player and did actual playmaking like real playmakers stockton and kidd etc., instead of forcing the ball inside and kicking out and call is playmaking. Also, he is not deadly anymore, if he ever has been. He disappears in the final stretches of the game, and it is difficult for management to justify such a huge money drain when it is not anymore working and there are way better options.Also what happened to pat riley in miami being gutted by lebron, and with all the lebron groupies getting max with the cavs, is all on his mind. He has won his ring, and is now making the move, which leads us to the second option - which i think they are doing now, is make the most of lebron's remaining value while the rest of the league is still unaware of his decline, and build on Irving who is young and is a real scoring threat and other young prospects like pg13, and butler.
griffin was the first of lebrons people to go. I wouldnt be surprised if there was a coaching shakeup any time soon.
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On June 20 2017 12:17 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2017 06:53 red_ wrote:
There was a guy just on with Cowherd(can't recall who) that said he totally believes that LeBron could be working a hush hush agreement with PG to play for Cleveland for 1 year then book to either the Lakers or the Clippers in 2018, whichever looks more promising.
Obviously it's a full on rumor, but it's spicy. I would hate it as a Cleveland fan, but at my core I'm a LeBron fan(1 year younger than him, grew up 15 minutes away, played against him a bunch, watched him in person even more) and it's getting rough to think we can supply him what he needs most for his legacy long term(rings), so I wouldn't begrudge him leaving; he got us the 1 for the land he promised.
Edit: He mentioned West being a huge boon for the Clips, saying that sources around the league believe LeBron has so much respect for history that the Logo will at minimum get LeBron in for an interview, and once that happens anything can happen. They say it's believed to be pretty much the entire reason Ballmer made the hire. for this to work, essentially lebron will tell everyone that he has gotten a guarantee from PG (or PG will say it himself) that he will resign with the cavs, because i dont think anyone in that organization would be ok with trading love who has 3 more years (2 + player option) for a 1 year rental, that would just be idiotic, because if they both left and love is not there, its just kyrie with no future. and then after saying all this, lebron and PG just bolt out of cleveland which would make both of them look like complete assholes, and i dont think lebron would ruin his own legacy in cleveland like that, that'd probably be even worse than the first time he left.
Or the GM leaves first, giving an excuse for Lebron to leave soon after without looking too much like a ring-chasing ass but rather disappointed with his owner!
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On June 20 2017 18:24 Keyboard Warrior wrote:
This is what's happening with the cavs this postseason...
I think after the last three years, or four years if you count 2014 spurs, gilbert sees that leboron is clearly on the decline and is not anymore a player that he can build the team around. Last year was courtesy of irving, not lebron. Gilbert is making hard boss moves, but i think one that will work out fine in the end. He has two options - keeping lebron and scavenging assets, or trading lebron and suddenly be a team with enough salary space to build a competitive with.
The only thing holding this back is the idea that lebron is crucial to get to the finals. The management no longer thinks this is the case. If they keep lebron, the best asset they have in the offseason is shumpert and love. Shumpert is useful on defense. Love is a great player who was victimized by lebron's "playmaking", being downgraded along with korver as ball watchers all game. They could compete with gsw if only lebron was a better player and did actual playmaking like real playmakers stockton and kidd etc., instead of forcing the ball inside and kicking out and call is playmaking. Also, he is not deadly anymore, if he ever has been. He disappears in the final stretches of the game, and it is difficult for management to justify such a huge money drain when it is not anymore working and there are way better options.Also what happened to pat riley in miami being gutted by lebron, and with all the lebron groupies getting max with the cavs, is all on his mind. He has won his ring, and is now making the move, which leads us to the second option - which i think they are doing now, is make the most of lebron's remaining value while the rest of the league is still unaware of his decline, and build on Irving who is young and is a real scoring threat and other young prospects like pg13, and butler.
griffin was the first of lebrons people to go. I wouldnt be surprised if there was a coaching shakeup any time soon.
LBJ is just fine. its his team mates that are not good enough. Source: Vanilla Plus/Minus of the Cavs players, Adjusted Plus/Minus of the Cavs players and xRAPM of the Cavs players.
LBJ makes every player around him better. Source: basketballvalue.com ( which is down right now LOL). Every player you pair up LBJ with improves in both offensive and defensive efficiency. Every player gets worse when LBJ is gone.
LBJ is the best play maker on the team so they make him the playmaker.
Basketball is a team game and GSW has 5 guys that are almost as good as LBJ. the Cavs have LBJ and 4 guys who are a substantial step down from GSW's "gang of 5". I'm referring to the gang of 5 GSW players sitting at the top of the Vanilla +/- chart.
all players eventually decline in their 30s. LBJ showed few signs of aging this year and every # bares that out. Maybe I'll get ahead of the curve too. Fultz's days are numbered guys.
On June 20 2017 18:57 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2017 12:17 zev318 wrote:On June 20 2017 06:53 red_ wrote:
There was a guy just on with Cowherd(can't recall who) that said he totally believes that LeBron could be working a hush hush agreement with PG to play for Cleveland for 1 year then book to either the Lakers or the Clippers in 2018, whichever looks more promising.
Obviously it's a full on rumor, but it's spicy. I would hate it as a Cleveland fan, but at my core I'm a LeBron fan(1 year younger than him, grew up 15 minutes away, played against him a bunch, watched him in person even more) and it's getting rough to think we can supply him what he needs most for his legacy long term(rings), so I wouldn't begrudge him leaving; he got us the 1 for the land he promised.
Edit: He mentioned West being a huge boon for the Clips, saying that sources around the league believe LeBron has so much respect for history that the Logo will at minimum get LeBron in for an interview, and once that happens anything can happen. They say it's believed to be pretty much the entire reason Ballmer made the hire. for this to work, essentially lebron will tell everyone that he has gotten a guarantee from PG (or PG will say it himself) that he will resign with the cavs, because i dont think anyone in that organization would be ok with trading love who has 3 more years (2 + player option) for a 1 year rental, that would just be idiotic, because if they both left and love is not there, its just kyrie with no future. and then after saying all this, lebron and PG just bolt out of cleveland which would make both of them look like complete assholes, and i dont think lebron would ruin his own legacy in cleveland like that, that'd probably be even worse than the first time he left. Or the GM leaves first, giving an excuse for Lebron to leave soon after without looking too much like a ring-chasing ass but rather disappointed with his owner!
i like that angle.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2716621-lebron-james-camp-reportedly-unaware-david-griffin-was-leaving-cavaliers
i wonder who in the Cavs organization is now making those Prez/GM type decisions with Griffin gone.
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I think these decisions might be completely stalled now... The owner didn't want to pay for whatever craziness Griffin had in mind to try to win this year but would have crushed the franchise for years after (especially if Lebron left with PG in FA after 1 year).
I'm disappointed because I want to see a competitive team against the Warriors, but I can also see not wanting to gut yourself to death just to have a slight chance to match them for only 1 year.
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On June 21 2017 00:07 ZenithM wrote:
I think these decisions might be completely stalled now... The owner didn't want to pay for whatever craziness Griffin had in mind to try to win this year but that would have crushed the franchise for years after (especially if Lebron left with PG in FA after 1 year).
I'm disappointed because I want to see a competitive team against the Warriors, but I can also see not wanting to gut yourself to death just to have a slight chance to match them for only 1 year.
would not be the first time cleveland destroyed themselves. they had a owner who traded 5 straight 1st round picks away and the NBA had to step in.
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Calling it now, if Cleveland cannot land that huge off-season roster change they'll have a terribly mediocre season and won't even make the finals.
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Unless Lebron gets injured or suddenly falls off the cliff, they are still the favorites to make the Finals. I do agree with the mediocre season. I think they went 0-10 or something ridiculous on the road on the 2nd game of a back to back. They have some really old role players and their stars play a tiring style of basketball. Part of me thinks that the schedule change in the last two finals were to help them compete with GSW.
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What I'm afraid of is Lebron's mindset going into this season if his roster doesn't change (or worsens...). These finals showed him that his team has very little chance of beating the Warriors in a Bo7. He's getting older. Probably out of Cleveland in 1 year. At odds with the owner. Owner not in win-now mode anymore.
That's not really motivating for a guy who wants to catch MJ in the GOAT rankings. I can really see him at the very least step off the gas pedal (like, not your usual LeCoasting, but really not doing anything to make the team win) and resting this season to try to get rings somewhere else with another cast of stars.
I hope I underestimate Lebron's competitive spirit though.
The one cheap way I see the Cavs becoming better is with another coach.
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On June 21 2017 06:28 ZenithM wrote:
What I'm afraid of is Lebron's mindset going into this season if his roster doesn't change (or worsens...). These finals showed him that his team has very little chance of beating the Warriors in a Bo7. He's getting older. Probably out of Cleveland in 1 year. At odds with the owner. Owner not in win-now mode anymore.
That's not really motivating for a guy who wants to catch MJ in the GOAT rankings. I can really see him at the very least step off the gas pedal (like, not your usual LeCoasting, but really not doing anything to make the team win) and resting this season to try to get rings somewhere else with another cast of stars.
I hope I underestimate Lebron's competitive spirit though.
The one cheap way I see the Cavs becoming better is with another coach.
which coach could they possibly get 1) that has the balls to move away from a lebron-centric offense to more of a team ball offense (thus resting lebron a bit more and that the team does not just collapse w/o lebron on the floor) 2) that the organization thinks can accomplish #1
btw russell + mozgov to the net for lopez and 27th pick in the works apparently
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Wow, can't believe the Lakers are giving up on Russell that fast. Or at least try to get something more out for him.
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Magic got hosed...I can't even..
Bring back Mitch.
(d'lo was the player I was the highest on on the team.., literally can't stop shaking my head)
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On June 21 2017 07:18 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2017 06:28 ZenithM wrote:
What I'm afraid of is Lebron's mindset going into this season if his roster doesn't change (or worsens...). These finals showed him that his team has very little chance of beating the Warriors in a Bo7. He's getting older. Probably out of Cleveland in 1 year. At odds with the owner. Owner not in win-now mode anymore.
That's not really motivating for a guy who wants to catch MJ in the GOAT rankings. I can really see him at the very least step off the gas pedal (like, not your usual LeCoasting, but really not doing anything to make the team win) and resting this season to try to get rings somewhere else with another cast of stars.
I hope I underestimate Lebron's competitive spirit though.
The one cheap way I see the Cavs becoming better is with another coach. which coach could they possibly get 1) that has the balls to move away from a lebron-centric offense to more of a team ball offense (thus resting lebron a bit more and that the team does not just collapse w/o lebron on the floor) 2) that the organization thinks can accomplish #1 btw russell + mozgov to the net for lopez and 27th pick in the works apparently
I don't think the offense is the problem actually, the defense is. Lebron has the reigns on the offense anyway.
If the Cavs don't get Butler and the Celtics do, I'd be curious to know what Lebron thinks of that :D.
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On June 21 2017 07:18 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2017 06:28 ZenithM wrote:
What I'm afraid of is Lebron's mindset going into this season if his roster doesn't change (or worsens...). These finals showed him that his team has very little chance of beating the Warriors in a Bo7. He's getting older. Probably out of Cleveland in 1 year. At odds with the owner. Owner not in win-now mode anymore.
That's not really motivating for a guy who wants to catch MJ in the GOAT rankings. I can really see him at the very least step off the gas pedal (like, not your usual LeCoasting, but really not doing anything to make the team win) and resting this season to try to get rings somewhere else with another cast of stars.
I hope I underestimate Lebron's competitive spirit though.
The one cheap way I see the Cavs becoming better is with another coach. which coach could they possibly get 1) that has the balls to move away from a lebron-centric offense to more of a team ball offense (thus resting lebron a bit more and that the team does not just collapse w/o lebron on the floor) 2) that the organization thinks can accomplish #1 btw russell + mozgov to the net for lopez and 27th pick in the works apparently
There is probably no such coach on the market, except maybe if Carlisle and the Mavs had a falling out. IDK, isn't Jerry Sloan like 90?
I think the Lakers trade is decent for them.
On June 21 2017 08:05 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2017 07:18 zev318 wrote:On June 21 2017 06:28 ZenithM wrote:
What I'm afraid of is Lebron's mindset going into this season if his roster doesn't change (or worsens...). These finals showed him that his team has very little chance of beating the Warriors in a Bo7. He's getting older. Probably out of Cleveland in 1 year. At odds with the owner. Owner not in win-now mode anymore.
That's not really motivating for a guy who wants to catch MJ in the GOAT rankings. I can really see him at the very least step off the gas pedal (like, not your usual LeCoasting, but really not doing anything to make the team win) and resting this season to try to get rings somewhere else with another cast of stars.
I hope I underestimate Lebron's competitive spirit though.
The one cheap way I see the Cavs becoming better is with another coach. which coach could they possibly get 1) that has the balls to move away from a lebron-centric offense to more of a team ball offense (thus resting lebron a bit more and that the team does not just collapse w/o lebron on the floor) 2) that the organization thinks can accomplish #1 btw russell + mozgov to the net for lopez and 27th pick in the works apparently I don't think the offense is the problem actually, the defense is. Lebron has the reigns on the offense anyway. If the Cavs don't get Butler and the Celtics do, I'd be curious to know what Lebron thinks of that :D.
Why would the Bulls do a trade with the Cavs that had KLove as a centerpiece? They both are, essentially, on 2 year contracts and Butler is the better player. Unless they got Cleveland's 1st round picks, unprotected in 2021 + 2023, I don't see how they CLE could swing that deal.
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EPT
