EPTNBA Offseason 2017 - Page 3
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On June 21 2017 07:51 MassHysteria wrote: Magic got hosed...I can't even.. Bring back Mitch. (d'lo was the player I was the highest on on the team.., literally can't stop shaking my head) had to get rid of mozgov somehow, too much dead money there. and i guess they're taking ball 100% now, no turning back. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17707 Posts
On June 21 2017 07:18 zev318 wrote: that the team does not just collapse w/o lebron on the floor) 2) that the organization thinks can accomplish #1 btw russell + mozgov to the net for lopez and 27th pick in the works apparently huh? the offense is a lot better with LBJ on the floor because LBJ is a really good offensive player. removing him makes the offense worse. Full Stop. removing him will not all of a sudden turn so-so playmakers into john stockton and then somehow make the offense almost as good as it is with LBJ on the floor. that ain't happenin' Cleveland has got lots of problems... offense ain't one of 'em. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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zev318
Canada4306 Posts
On June 21 2017 09:18 JimmyJRaynor wrote: huh? the offense is a lot better with LBJ on the floor because LBJ is a really good offensive player. removing him makes the offense worse. Full Stop. removing him will not all of a sudden turn so-so playmakers into john stockton and then somehow make the offense almost as good as it is with LBJ on the floor. that ain't happenin' Cleveland has got lots of problems... offense ain't one of 'em. i think their offense without lebron is a problem, it is way too dependent on him, and that's my point, not sure why u needed to cut out the first part of what i said. if it didnt drop off so much, they can afford to rest him more. of course the defense is a problem too. strictly looking at their offensive rating, without lebron, it is bottom 10 in the league in the reg season and bottom 6 in the playoffs, i dont think that's acceptable with players like love and kyrie. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17707 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On June 21 2017 13:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The primary problem for the Cavs is that GSW's starting line up is far better. The thing to keep in mind about the 2017 Finals is that the Warriors did not have a game where they had all of their starters firing on all cylinders. Durant was consistently good, but everyone else had at least one off game, if not multiple off games. Even then, the Cavs had to have ridiculous shooting percentages to even threaten the Warriors. The Warriors have another gear that wasn't shown. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 21 2017 13:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The primary problem for the Cavs is that GSW's starting line up is far better. I disagree. I think GSW's offensive & defensive systems are far better, and their talent is mildly better. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
I looked up Mozgov's deal. 3 years remaining makes it more defensible to sacrifice Russell to get rid of it. It takes a while for rookies to develop, however, and his deal might be over by the time their no. 2 pick becomes a star. The Lakers just seem too impatient in general. I'm also not sure about the wisdom of chasing a star who will be on the wrong side of 30 by the time their young guys develop. They might surprise me but I think this team is at least 3 years away from contention. Paul George might carry them to the playoffs faster than that but how much will the younger guys be able to contribute? | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
Yes, I agree with all that but just taking this trade in a vacuum, my problem is the selling-low on 21-year-old former #2 pick. Opinions on the trade from Lakers fans, etc. really comes down to how high(or low) you value DAR. The FO obviously really didn't like Russell's "attitude" And then all for what? Trying/hoping to get a 34-year old James or w/e next year? Trading for PG, who is gonna be peeking right at the time that the Warriors are peeking? I am not for tearing down the team for PG. Then they peddle that lame narrative again thru Kevin Ding about "Believing stars will flock to the bright lights of Tinseltown". Way to go out-of-the-box Front-Office and trying to rebuild this thing through innovation /s ...Not inspiring as of right now (/end rant). | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
On June 21 2017 14:48 cLutZ wrote: I think the plan, is quite clear: 1. Suck again. 2. Get Paul George. 3. Get Lebron or another guy. 4. Trade away everything for person #3. FO showing some real creativity. edit: To answer seriously though...If they are planning to suck w/o trading for PG then why do this now (in a season where their pick goes to BOS and when the cost of trading Moz contract goes down with the less time remaining on it). It actually seems like they have something else lined up and I realize the bolts and nuts aren't in yet but I am simply having a hard time giving up on young DAR coming into his own, while adjusting to the hardest position in the league and actually putting up good #'s for an age-20 season... | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
I dont know if they are right/wrong because I never watch the Lakers. Seeing as how both teams are generally incompetent, and Magic is historically incompetent, I guess its prolly even. | ||
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Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
On June 21 2017 14:07 cLutZ wrote: I disagree. I think GSW's offensive & defensive systems are far better, and their talent is mildly better. I agree with the system with slight disagreement with the talent. Imo, GSW's system is such that the players skill level is massively improved and augmented, and the stats bear this out, but when you compare pure talent individually, Cavs are ahead. James vs. durant, kyrie vs. curry, love vs. klay, tristan vs. mcgee, and even veteran jefferson vs. iguodala, The cavs players statistics suffer dramatically and this results to team performance partly because the coach and management failed to form them into a cohesive unified unit similar to the warriors, this is why you get kyrie 20 dribble lol And the most important reason for this failure is Lebron. This is what Lebron nuthuggers fail to realize. Heat championship Lebron was a monster at offense and demanded attention. But this version of lebron is not the same threat. He has literally 1 playmaking move lolwut! He would barrel down the lane usually of a switch and kick it out to the shooters. GSW didnt even respect his penetration anymore and let him attack at will, which is not as strong as a weapon before. The warriors then forced the cavs shooters cold with smothering defense that on the times they get the ball, they would be so cold from ball-watching and not making their shots. Guys, basketball 101. This is not playmaking, at least not in the reliable and effective sense that most legit playmakers do. Compare how the warriors shooters get their shots. Their system allows shooters to be in motion always looking for the best looks. This is also the reason why Cavs fail. They are too lebron-centric. The offense fails when james is out because of all the ball watching took them out of rhythm already. Irving is the only one who can force the offense. Which is funny. Gilbert must have planned this all along. The decision was humiliating. He already milked lebron with a ring, and he knows that he cannot win against the warriors not with lebron, and he is paying repeater luxury tax for lebron and his gang. He knows lebron is not anymore the player to build a team around, and he is making great moves to acquire future assets and build on Irving. As for lebron, well he could continue on looking for teams that could give him instant rings at the expense of their development. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
So I'll just say that I do think GSW is significantly more talented than the Cavs, if only on the defensive end. In term of talent I think Durant-Curry and Lebron-Kyrie roughly cancel each other. Then you're looking at Draymond + Klay vs Love. I'm the first to admit that Love's offensive talent isn't tapped by the Cavs, but defensively there is no doubt that this is an abysmal gap. Then who's the best remaining player for the Cavs? Tristan Thompson? Bleh... Then you got Iguodala for GS. Only looking at perimeter defense, I'd argue that Durant, Klay, Iguodala are all better than Lebron, and wayyy better than the rest of the Cavs roster. And that's without accounting for the fucking DPOY. I don't think these guys being good defenders is a product of GW's system either, they were always good defenders to begin with. Cavs have neither good perimeter defense, nor a rim protector. That's the talent discrepancy I see there. | ||
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
On June 21 2017 15:17 cLutZ wrote: I think they jumped at the chance to trade away Mozgov and they legit are super low on Russell. If they thought Russell would be decent this year they would have waited, but clearly they think the Nets are getting a player that isn't going to improve at all. I dont know if they are right/wrong because I never watch the Lakers. Seeing as how both teams are generally incompetent, and Magic is historically incompetent, I guess its prolly even. To be honest, I can't see Russell becoming any better. I watched several games with Russell, and he's got flashes of greatness in him, but his athleticism is holding him back. That's something that is going to take years to develop, if he manages to become any more athletic at all. In addition, his defense is rather lackluster, which hurts a lot when his streaky shot is not falling. He was also praised for his passing abilities, but it seems like his passes rarely leads to any assists or net-positive possessions. Even if trading Russell was a mistake, getting rid of Mozgov for another first-round pick + Brook Lopez is very worth it. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13430 Posts
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