EPT[Olympics] Rio de Janeiro 2016 - Page 55
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Shellshock
United States97277 Posts
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
On August 19 2016 00:15 Shellshock wrote: I remember people saying this about the pools in Beijing and they ended up blaming it on the body suits. I mean I guess it's possible but I feel like something like the track length would have been checked pretty thoroughly. But yea just saw the hurdles results and the top 6 either all had personal/season bests with a couple national records broken and it's not the first race like this so maybe? Maybe its the weather conditions? Wind and air moisture? Not sure if they were helpful tho. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On August 18 2016 19:22 OtherWorld wrote: Yes and no. Concussions are certainly not the only thing at play here, as shown by the conjugated facts that rugbymen and cyclists (and even some football players) also die early and have bad health but that racing drivers, who also suffer severe impacts and high G forces, seem to live without major health issues. I remember an interesting study that showed that the size of rugbymen's jaws have grown significantly compared to the 60s, and that jaw size was correlated with some kind of doping (yes that's vague, because I'm recalling it from memory). Bottom line was that it was highly likely that doping was widespread in (French) Rugby. Why would it be different for American Football? edit : just look how many players of the South African team that won the Rugby World Cup in 1995 are dead early or on their way to dying, and not from concussions but from conditions like Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (3 players)... On the same note, 40 Italian football players have died from ALS since 1973, which is 7 times the usual figure... Did they suffer concussions too? American football players aren't dying from those other stuff though. The deaths I've read about are all either related to their size (things like heart disease) or concussions, including the mental health problems related to CTS. Their biggest risk for drug problems come from all the painkillers they need to take to be able to play. The problems in American football are unlikely to be found in most Olympic sports. But hey, they did remove the helmets from men's boxing... | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 18 2016 23:16 OtherWorld wrote: The opposition to the use of doping substances is closely related to the idea of "fair competition", which is the building block of sports as it developed in Europe in the late 19th/early 20th century. Allowing doping in the current state of things would break that fundamental myth, and would also be a big issue for the current neo-hygienist ideology and Public Health : how can you push the people to do sports "because it's good for health" (second fundamental myth of sports, eh), and on the other hand have professional athletes who are destroying their health by doing sports? And I don't believe we have "safe" doping substances currently, do we? Doping, when used at the top level and not at lower levels of the ladder, is about getting beyond human limits. And getting beyond human limits can never be good for your health. "Human limits" have already been and are still being redefined. There is no magical line that decides what is "beyond" those limits. Also, the only thing that makes doping not "fair" is the fact that it's banned in the first place. The bottom line is that the danger to one's health seems to be the only solid sticking point when arguing against doping. Athletes already take a trove of treatments, supplements, etc. etc. that enhance (or supposedly enhance) their performances, and I find it difficult to create a reasonable argument as to how all of these different things are qualitatively (in an ethical sense) different from PED's, aside from the risk to health. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On August 19 2016 00:37 Superbanana wrote: Maybe its the weather conditions? Wind and air moisture? Not sure if they were helpful tho. I dunno, Mekhissi said yesterday that it was scandalous to hold finals in the morning by 35 C because it was way too hot to perform properly | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
On August 19 2016 00:31 Shellshock wrote: herewego https://twitter.com/mattgutmanABC/status/766268427661029376 Worst part is that when I read the american media (USA Today) they mostly seem to extremely defensive about the swimmers. It's always Brazil's fault, the brazilians are always to blame, the 3rd world savages are exagerating, the underdeveloped are not worth holding the olympics, and it goes on and on... If a brazilian lied to the american police in the USA I bet he would be held for 24h, in a room with only a desk, nothing to eat, etc. Then deported. Fair. But dare we, the savages, touch a lier american hero!! No! Let him do all the shit he want to do, let him ignore the laws, the americans have a free pass to make a mess wherever they go. And if they are caught, no matter what, they are the victims!! Fuck that. | ||
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DaCruise
Denmark2457 Posts
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 19 2016 00:12 bardtown wrote: Null argument. You either allow it completely (in which case it's a race to the bottom with who can take the most drugs before their heart implodes) or you allow a limited amount (in which case you just shift the goal posts as people continue to cheat by exceeding the limits or taking other substances on top). There is no argument for allowing doping. This argument doesn't hold much water since this "race to the bottom" is already accomplished with everything that is currently legal. It will always happen, no matter the circumstance, as long as money is the motivating incentive because that money tends to trump actual long-term health. | ||
TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On August 19 2016 00:18 Superbanana wrote: Indeed! the German duo was on fire. Really good games. How could anyone expect something different from our German relay? They are in great shape. They ran this years fastest time(Weltjahresbestzeit) just weeks prior to Rio. If they are in form I actually expect them to medal. Edit: Ah I missed the context and thought you were talking about Relay just now because the poster before you was talking about it  | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
On August 19 2016 00:18 Faruko wrote: Seems like Brazil and USA got dq from the 4x100m, because they crashed into each other on the 2nd "stop" Americans are back in it. Protest successful, they have to run alone to beat the 42,70s of the Chinese, if they do, they advance to the final. | ||
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TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
On August 19 2016 01:27 mahrgell wrote: Americans are back in it. Protest successful, they have to run alone to beat the 42,70s of the Chinese, if they do, they advance to the final. Shitty situation with obviously no fair solution. Suck to be China  | ||
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Shellshock
United States97277 Posts
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
Now they are forbidden for males and since you cant make females swim naked these days, they are allowed but the suits have to be submitted in advance and they have to be approved like a formula 1 car. You can also see this by female WR falling much faster and often than male ones now since the body suit times did not get erased. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On August 19 2016 00:47 Stratos_speAr wrote: "Human limits" have already been and are still being redefined. There is no magical line that decides what is "beyond" those limits. Also, the only thing that makes doping not "fair" is the fact that it's banned in the first place. The bottom line is that the danger to one's health seems to be the only solid sticking point when arguing against doping. Athletes already take a trove of treatments, supplements, etc. etc. that enhance (or supposedly enhance) their performances, and I find it difficult to create a reasonable argument as to how all of these different things are qualitatively (in an ethical sense) different from PED's, aside from the risk to health. Human limits are defined by achievable human performance for a given individual. If with years of thoughtful, adequate and science-based training, you can run a 100m in 9'90 and after taking drugs, you can do it in 9'60, you're beyond human limits. Though of course there's no magical line. As for the unfair advantage, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I wish you good luck in trying to convince people that doping is not an unfair advantage. Also, the myth of fair competition is sos strong that breaking it would mean no one would watch sports anymore. As for supplements, that's kind of the point. A supplement is not a drug ; a supplement is no different from a diet centered on that element, and such will very rarely have bad health effects unless you really don't know what you're doing. A PED is a drug, though, and drugs are on another level of complexity, and are inherently more dangerous than supplements (as the rule goes, the only difference between poison and treatment is the quantity). | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On August 19 2016 01:47 OtherWorld wrote: Human limits are defined by achievable human performance for a given individual. If with years of thoughtful, adequate and science-based training, you can run a 100m in 9'90 and after taking drugs, you can do it in 9'60, you're beyond human limits. Though of course there's no magical line. As for the unfair advantage, I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I wish you good luck in trying to convince people that doping is not an unfair advantage. Also, the myth of fair competition is sos strong that breaking it would mean no one would watch sports anymore. As for supplements, that's kind of the point. A supplement is not a drug ; a supplement is no different from a diet centered on that element, and such will very rarely have bad health effects unless you really don't know what you're doing. A PED is a drug, though, and drugs are on another level of complexity, and are inherently more dangerous than supplements (as the rule goes, the only difference between poison and treatment is the quantity). Actually the definition of a drug is incredibly wide, as to include caffeine and alcohol, among other things. There really isn't a clear, substantial difference between the supplements, legal drugs, and diets that athletes currently use and illegal substances, aside from their illegality and questionable safety. And that human limit that you're talking about has changed on its own, which is exactly my point. 50 years ago people couldn't jump as high, run as fast, or lift as much as we do now, even without PED's. | ||
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
On August 19 2016 01:27 mahrgell wrote: Americans are back in it. Protest successful, they have to run alone to beat the 42,70s of the Chinese, if they do, they advance to the final. Doesnt the stadiuam have 9 lanes anyway? Why not just add them (yeah the inner and outer lanes are not liked very much, but still). edit: More doubleposts! In the spirit of the thread, let's make a competition out of it! | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
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ShAsTa
Belgium2841 Posts
On August 19 2016 01:27 mahrgell wrote: Americans are back in it. Protest successful, they have to run alone to beat the 42,70s of the Chinese, if they do, they advance to the final. I don't get that. Correct me if I'm wrong but in other events if some atlete trips and falls down but in doing so also causes someone else to fall, there is no redo for the latter person. So why the redo now? I'm not against giving another opportunity against the clock but the rules should be consistent. | ||
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Shellshock
United States97277 Posts
On August 19 2016 01:51 Mafe wrote: BMX is really fun to watch, as long as noone gets injured at least. I didn't watch much of it last team even though it looked cool but all I remember for the most part in London was on the first turn 2+ riders would always get taken out by someone sliding up from down low | ||
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