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Gorsameth
Netherlands21957 Posts
On August 18 2016 13:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Uh.... Are they going to do the same for the British team as one was robbed today as well. The problem was a lot of inconsistencies in their description of the event no? I don't think the fact they were simply robbed was the problem. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6996 Posts
On August 18 2016 05:51 mahrgell wrote: Who expected this German team in the final? o.O Who is hyped for this German team? This is like a B/C-team of our U21. Hell, they had to reschedule the team presentation on the day it was scheduled to the day after, because they couldn't unfreeze enough players from the clubs for it... I did (on page 5 or sth) Germany has never won anything because they didn't care enough to qualify. This is the first time since about 20 years that we are even qualified and it was by pure chance. Normally young talents get directly promoted to the A-team, leaving the U21 teams with a B-team at the most. This time players like Sane, Weigl, Kimmich, Tah... I was genuinly surprised to see the Bender Twins in the lineup tbh. Hrubesch did a great job talking to clubs and convince clubs that this is a good thing. | ||
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craz3d
Bulgaria856 Posts
On August 18 2016 14:47 OtherWorld wrote: You simply can't allow doping openly. Consider that, in cycling, some are using drugs that are only being on animals for the moment ( = 0 safety, maximum health risk), and you don't want to see half the field die during the tournament. Don't forget that WADA/USADA and others that are dedicated to "enforcing" a clean sport will be forced to close up shop. These foundations receive a lot of funding and won't want to let go of it that easily by declaring open season on doping because then they won't have anything to justify their continued existence. I guess all that can be done is to make sure athletes get tested at regular intervals so that they at least can't be on the stuff all the time and would have to use them in small doses. This would minimize the risk of disease brought on by earlier drug use later in life. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On August 18 2016 16:15 Jibba wrote: What? I mean, I'm sure American football players are using PEDs, but they're not what's causing the problems. It's concussions from diving at each other while wearing extremely hard helmets, and a lot of the public does care. Nate Ebner's dirty yellow card hit in the rugby 7's vs Brazil is highly encouraged in the NFL, by guys much bigger and faster than Ebner. That's what causes the injuries, leading to severe mental health issues after retirement. There's a lot of research going on to improve equipment, and I think most of the public is disgusted with the NFL's administration but, like with FIFA, it's not enough to get them to stop watching. Yes and no. Concussions are certainly not the only thing at play here, as shown by the conjugated facts that rugbymen and cyclists (and even some football players) also die early and have bad health but that racing drivers, who also suffer severe impacts and high G forces, seem to live without major health issues. I remember an interesting study that showed that the size of rugbymen's jaws have grown significantly compared to the 60s, and that jaw size was correlated with some kind of doping (yes that's vague, because I'm recalling it from memory). Bottom line was that it was highly likely that doping was widespread in (French) Rugby. Why would it be different for American Football? edit : just look how many players of the South African team that won the Rugby World Cup in 1995 are dead early or on their way to dying, and not from concussions but from conditions like Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (3 players)... On the same note, 40 Italian football players have died from ALS since 1973, which is 7 times the usual figure... Did they suffer concussions too? | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6996 Posts
But cyclist... can't be anything but drugs | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On August 18 2016 19:22 OtherWorld wrote: I remember an interesting study that showed that the size of rugbymen's jaws have grown significantly compared to the 60s, and that jaw size was correlated with some kind of doping (yes that's vague, because I'm recalling it from memory). Bottom line was that it was highly likely that doping was widespread in (French) Rugby. Why would it be different for American Football? Bizarre conclusion. Of course their jaws will be larger, just as the measurements of weightlifters and basketball players will exceed those of the 60s by an almost incomprehensible margin. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On August 18 2016 20:24 bardtown wrote: Bizarre conclusion. Of course their jaws will be larger, just as the measurements of weightlifters and basketball players will exceed those of the 60s by an almost incomprehensible margin. I'm not sure Rugbymen specifically train their jaws though, as that's pretty useless (and impossible to achieve? there's little visible muscle here). | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
On August 18 2016 18:24 Gorsameth wrote: The problem was a lot of inconsistencies in their description of the event no? I don't think the fact they were simply robbed was the problem. Exactly... They wont hold the british if the situation is clear, the problem was that Lochte seems like lied to the police, and if im not mistaken, that is a crime or a contravention. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On August 18 2016 21:26 OtherWorld wrote: I'm not sure Rugbymen specifically train their jaws though, as that's pretty useless (and impossible to achieve? there's little visible muscle here). And basketball players don't train their height. The point is that unless you're close to the optimum build for your sport, you're never going to make it to the top levels. (The set of their jaw is linked to their testosterone which will in turn be linked to their strength/size) | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
Plenty of people talk about doping as "unethical" and "cheating", yet the only objection in the last couple pages is that it's not safe. So if we come up with safe and effective PED's, is it ethically OK to use them? Don't we already do this with a whole host of substances that athletes take? And furthermore, what's so unethical about using them in the first place then? Is it simply the arbitrary line that makes them currently illegal in sports? And if doping is so widespread, then how is that "cheating" since it's pretty readily available to everyone? | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6996 Posts
On August 18 2016 22:50 Stratos_speAr wrote: So this is one of the interesting ethical discussions about doping. Plenty of people talk about doping as "unethical" and "cheating", yet the only objection in the last couple pages is that it's not safe. So if we come up with safe and effective PED's, is it ethically OK to use them? Don't we already do this with a whole host of substances that athletes take? And furthermore, what's so unethical about using them in the first place then? Is it simply the arbitrary line that makes them currently illegal in sports? And if doping is so widespread, then how is that "cheating" since it's pretty readily available to everyone? Well, if it is safe then you could allow it and have therefore and even playing field... so I'd say sounds good to me. Don't even stop with top athletes, everyone should take it. Hell I wanna get ripped, too  | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On August 18 2016 22:07 bardtown wrote: And basketball players don't train their height. The point is that unless you're close to the optimum build for your sport, you're never going to make it to the top levels. (The set of their jaw is linked to their testosterone which will in turn be linked to their strength/size) Sorry, jaw size is the wrong term, I'm talking about chin advancement compared to the upper face (mandibular prognathism). And that has to do mainly with Growth Hormone, not testosterone. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On August 18 2016 22:50 Stratos_speAr wrote: So this is one of the interesting ethical discussions about doping. Plenty of people talk about doping as "unethical" and "cheating", yet the only objection in the last couple pages is that it's not safe. So if we come up with safe and effective PED's, is it ethically OK to use them? Don't we already do this with a whole host of substances that athletes take? And furthermore, what's so unethical about using them in the first place then? Is it simply the arbitrary line that makes them currently illegal in sports? And if doping is so widespread, then how is that "cheating" since it's pretty readily available to everyone? The opposition to the use of doping substances is closely related to the idea of "fair competition", which is the building block of sports as it developed in Europe in the late 19th/early 20th century. Allowing doping in the current state of things would break that fundamental myth, and would also be a big issue for the current neo-hygienist ideology and Public Health : how can you push the people to do sports "because it's good for health" (second fundamental myth of sports, eh), and on the other hand have professional athletes who are destroying their health by doing sports? And I don't believe we have "safe" doping substances currently, do we? Doping, when used at the top level and not at lower levels of the ladder, is about getting beyond human limits. And getting beyond human limits can never be good for your health. | ||
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Rookie6
Brazil583 Posts
On August 18 2016 19:22 OtherWorld wrote: Yes and no. Concussions are certainly not the only thing at play here, as shown by the conjugated facts that rugbymen and cyclists (and even some football players) also die early and have bad health but that racing drivers, who also suffer severe impacts and high G forces, seem to live without major health issues. I remember an interesting study that showed that the size of rugbymen's jaws have grown significantly compared to the 60s, and that jaw size was correlated with some kind of doping (yes that's vague, because I'm recalling it from memory). Bottom line was that it was highly likely that doping was widespread in (French) Rugby. Why would it be different for American Football? edit : just look how many players of the South African team that won the Rugby World Cup in 1995 are dead early or on their way to dying, and not from concussions but from conditions like Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis (3 players)... On the same note, 40 Italian football players have died from ALS since 1973, which is 7 times the usual figure... Did they suffer concussions too? Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis is a disease we know very little about, there are a lot of controversial and contradictory studies in literature, with smoking being the only risk factor that is a consensus between researchers. Concussions or any trauma are not considered risk factors for ALS, but they are for Alzheimer and Parkinson, which are related to neuronal death only in the cortex. And Alzheimer and Parkinson are also indeed more prevalent in boxing and nfl players. | ||
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Keniji
Netherlands2569 Posts
1) the risk involved for the health of the athletes. If doping were allowed, athletes would be forced to risk their health to compete at the top level. On the other hand, if it was open it could be more controlled and you would not need to take things from a shady guy. Especially an argument if you think to compete at the top level you have to dope anyway even if it is illegal. 2) Money would be an even bigger issue which countries can "produce" (almost literally with doping being legal) top athletes. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On August 18 2016 23:33 Keniji wrote: On the other hand, if it was open it could be more controlled and you would not need to take things from a shady guy. Null argument. You either allow it completely (in which case it's a race to the bottom with who can take the most drugs before their heart implodes) or you allow a limited amount (in which case you just shift the goal posts as people continue to cheat by exceeding the limits or taking other substances on top). There is no argument for allowing doping. | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
On August 19 2016 00:07 OtherWorld wrote: So many records going down on long distances... How likely is it that the stadium is slightly less than 400m? I remember people saying this about the pools in Beijing and they ended up blaming it on the body suits. I mean I guess it's possible but I feel like something like the track length would have been checked pretty thoroughly. But yea just saw the hurdles results and the top 6 either all had personal/season bests with a couple national records broken and it's not the first race like this so maybe? | ||
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Faruko
Chile34171 Posts
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
On August 18 2016 13:37 Tresher wrote: I agree. So happy they won. They played really, really well the whole tournament and deserve the gold medal. Indeed! the German duo was on fire. Really good games. | ||
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