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On January 15 2015 08:26 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2015 06:02 Najda wrote:On January 15 2015 04:25 Osmoses wrote:
I've seen that one ;P But in my experience there's just no saving chicken that's been frozen solid, and I generally stay away from sauces when dieting, but soy at least makes it bearable. I never freeze chicken after cooking it, so I usually only prepare for a couple days in advanced. You can use dry seasonings to make chicken taste better, I find that spicy seasonings typically keep flavor better through reheating. Cooking it properly also is very important, since overcooking it will make it taste like rubber, especially so when you reheat it. fuck chicken, eat meat. Soy sauce is posion, avoid it at all cost. NSFW: http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/09/soy-is-devil-and-not-in-fun-way.html
Soy sauce is fermented and not really detrimental. You just want to avoid processed soy like soy milk and soy protein substituting for other things. No problems with soy sauce if that makes your chicken edible for you.
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On January 15 2015 08:05 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2015 07:22 Thalandros wrote:On January 15 2015 06:57 Osmoses wrote:
Assuming you're doing highbar squats, those do target your quads moreso than your glutes or hamstrings, especially with a narrow stance. Try a wider stance or switching to lowbar if you want greater hamstring activation. Or do stiff legged deadlifts.
As for adding lifts to the program: if you change the program, you're not doing the program. Have faith that it's popular for a reason, you'll be plenty tired enough as your lifts go up, don't worry. I've heard a lot of people say adding isolation exercises is just up to the individual though, just trying to get some opinions here, it's not ''against'' the program, just not necessarily ''in'' it :p I'm doing smith machine squats, so kind of I suppose, yea. I understand it's not optimal but my gym does not have a standard machine, so I'm forced to use this/do it without any kind of support, which I'd rather not do. I am very skeptical that what you are doing is what I could call a squat. Post a video if you want a critique, but my guess is that you are only doing something vaguely resembling a squat. Anyone who can do 3x12 @ 130kg easily is far stronger than the person you are describing yourself to be (i.e. starting strong lifts, hasn't lifted seriously before, isn't a confident deadlifter, etc.). Best thing you can do, again, would be to post a video of yourself so we can get a better idea of what you are and are not doing.
The leg press is the only exercise I've been doing for a very long time, practically since I started going to the gym a year back (at ~70kg). It's the only exercise I've seen huge progress in more so than others. That's the explanation behind that 
That said, when I get to the gym on friday I hope I'll have a friend with me to record a clip of me trying to do the aforementioned squat, and maybe a deadlift while at it.
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That soy blog is fucking trash lol. Yes, it's probably bad to eat high amounts of soy or use it as a chief source of protein, but the vast majority of people, even dudes looking to put on muscle, can eat soy in reasonable amounts and expect 0 negative effects.
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On January 15 2015 08:37 farvacola wrote:
That soy blog is fucking trash lol. Yes, it's probably bad to eat high amounts of soy or use it as a chief source of protein, but the vast majority of people, even dudes looking to put on muscle, can eat soy in reasonable amounts and expect 0 negative effects.
sensationalized or overstated? sure. trash? far from it. C&P articles are as a rule obsessively researched, and if I remember right that one is no different. While a bit of soy every now and then is certainly not enough to set back an amateur lifter, (again, the article is overstated) but to dismiss everything about it as "trash" is too far in the other direction.
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Match up the article's claims with its citations, and then look at the style of the writing. It's sensationalized bullshit meant to confirm pre-existing biases and is of practically no value outside of selling very narrow views on how good nutrition should be regarded.
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On January 15 2015 11:57 farvacola wrote:
Match up the article's claims with its citations, and then look at the style of the writing. It's sensationalized bullshit meant to confirm pre-existing biases and is of practically no value outside of selling very narrow views on how good nutrition should be regarded.
I think the style of writing has nothing to do with the actual content, it is not supposed to be an academic paper.
The author is a former total world record holder in powerlifting, and since I've read the entire blog I can say I've picked up tons of wisdom regarding various topics from there (this is not me saying I agree with everything the author says)
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He should stick to powerlifting then.
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On January 15 2015 11:27 phyre112 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2015 08:37 farvacola wrote:
That soy blog is fucking trash lol. Yes, it's probably bad to eat high amounts of soy or use it as a chief source of protein, but the vast majority of people, even dudes looking to put on muscle, can eat soy in reasonable amounts and expect 0 negative effects. sensationalized or overstated? sure. trash? far from it. C&P articles are as a rule obsessively researched, and if I remember right that one is no different. While a bit of soy every now and then is certainly not enough to set back an amateur lifter, (again, the article is overstated) but to dismiss everything about it as "trash" is too far in the other direction.
i've heard tons of differing opinions about soy all over the place, and so i went ahead and took a look at that article just to see how substantiated the claims are. i've also never read any of the chaos and pain articles before, so i don't really have an idea of how well the author usually does on his research.
he links a couple books as sources, but since i haven't read them, i won't comment too much.
Soy contains isoflavones, plant hormones that have been shown to have an estrogenic effect on the body (it mimics the actions of estrogen, which reduces test levels and inhibit muscular hypertrophy. (Nutrient Timing, 128)
this seems legit. the author of that book (john ivy) looks like he really knows what he's talking about.
Many beans contain toxic compounds designed to dissuade animals from eating them, and soybeans are no different. Raw soybeans contain antienzymes, hemagglutinin, phytates and goitrogens, which will have varying effects on people based on the biological individuality, but are toxic nonetheless. (Neanderthin, 56)
i don't have access to the book, but this seems like a flimsy argument. kidney beans are known to have toxins in them too, but they're safe to eat if cooked thoroughly, and no one is up in arms about kidney beans. besides, we don't even eat soybeans raw.
According to health activist and occasional kook Joseph Mercola, soy may increase the risk of breast cancer in women, brain damage in both men and women, and abnormalities in infants, contribute to thyroid disorders (especially in women), promote kidney stones, weaken the immune system, and cause severe, potentially fatal food allergies. (Mercola)
this is more interesting. his source links to this page, which i don't know what to make of. mercola is a DO, which i respect a lot, and has the credentials to be an authority on nutrition. the stuff on his page makes sense. the one thing that looks kind of sketchy is him saying that there are "thousands of studies" linking soy to a whole bunch of serious health issues. we should look at this the same way we look at the studies sometimes posted here about the dangers of eating meat, red meat, eggs, etc - with scrutiny. we dismiss people for using studies that show correlation to demonstrate causation, and we be careful with mercola as well. i bet you could easily link soy to all the top health problems in the US today simply because both soy consumption and those health problems are rising, but it does nothing to show that soy caused those problems. i'm not saying that soy didn't cause them, i'm saying that based on observational studies, we can't tell for sure yet.still though, what mercola talks about in the section "what makes soy such a risky food to eat" is something to think about.
anyway, i thought it was a good exercise.
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On January 15 2015 15:04 ieatkids5 wrote:Show nested quote +According to health activist and occasional kook Joseph Mercola, soy may increase the risk of breast cancer in women, brain damage in both men and women, and abnormalities in infants, contribute to thyroid disorders (especially in women), promote kidney stones, weaken the immune system, and cause severe, potentially fatal food allergies. (Mercola) this is more interesting. his source links to this page, which i don't know what to make of. mercola is a DO, which i respect a lot, and has the credentials to be an authority on nutrition. the stuff on his page makes sense. the one thing that looks kind of sketchy is him saying that there are "thousands of studies" linking soy to a whole bunch of serious health issues. we should look at this the same way we look at the studies sometimes posted here about the dangers of eating meat, red meat, eggs, etc - with scrutiny. we dismiss people for using studies that show correlation to demonstrate causation, and we be careful with mercola as well. i bet you could easily link soy to all the top health problems in the US today simply because both soy consumption and those health problems are rising, but it does nothing to show that soy caused those problems. i'm not saying that soy didn't cause them, i'm saying that based on observational studies, we can't tell for sure yet.still though, what mercola talks about in the section "what makes soy such a risky food to eat" is something to think about. anyway, i thought it was a good exercise.
I'm gonna head out on a limb here and say that every study published in the last two decades has ended with either the phrase "further research is needed to confirm ______" or "______ provides a promising new avenue for research in ______." You make some great points, and of course examining a subject is a better idea than supporting it just because it comes from someone you generally support. But again, dismissing it out of hand is as bad if not worse.
Thanks for taking the time to do the analysis though - I havent rad that particular article since it was first published, so it wasnt quite current in my mind.
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On January 15 2015 06:46 Thalandros wrote:
Alright, so I've started doing the SL (stronglifts) 5x5 workout, or atleast trying to get used to all the exercises.
I started doing squats earlier this week. Done them twice now. I've done a bunch of leg pressing in the past (which primarily hits the quads just like squats do if I'm not mistaken), and pull 3x12x130KG easily on it. That's also why I find this a bit weird. Whenever I squat (right now just 20-25KG to get a hang of it and see my max, and really do go as far as I can, I feel a big burning ''sensation'' in my quads, much more than I maybe should, but nothing or barely anything in any other muscles (hamstrings and glutes?). I go ''ass to the grass'' as far as I'm able. Whether I use 20 or 25KG, the feeling is the same. Outside of the workout my upper legs really do feel worked (front, that is) and heavy, which is good I assume considering I'm getting used to the exercise.
I guess the problem is the ''pain'' doesn't go up as I do more reps or sets, it stays constant but starts off really ''burny'' in my quads already.
That, and I really need someone who knows his shit to check if I do proper form on Deadlifts before I start incorporating them 2x a week. I feel like I'm doing them right, but can't really do it without proper weights added to it so it's hard to judge by myself.
One last question: The 5x5 workout targets 3 big compound exercises per workout. This means the workouts will be very short. Should I add on some extra exercises (side lateral raises, arm curls, preacher curls, extensions, anything really) to make the workout a bit longer? I know the SL-workout targets overall body strength but I'd still like to be able to go to the gym for a significant amount of time and sometimes extra-work a specific group of muscles.
Thanks in advance for anyone willing to share knowledge to this fitness nub :>
I've also started it not too long ago (6 weeks in). This is a progressive program. If you've downloaded the spreadsheet, take a look at the numbers at week 12 (you do not need to stop after 12 weeks). If you are a noob like I am, you'd start feeling it real soon on the rest days.
As for adding other exercises. Personally, I throw in ab wheels whenever I'm waiting for a stream or show to start. I also do chin ups quite often when I pass by the bar at home.
Before I started 5x5s I could barely do an ab wheel roll out and could barely complete 6 chin ups. Now abwheels are so much easier and I can easily do at least 12 chin ups now! Don't over do it though, rest days are meant for resting after all. This is my own experience though. I've even lost 2kgs after all that (I was running daily for a month before starting the 5x5 though).
As for form, I myself don't really know who is the best person to watch for form. I checked out Rippetoe's videos on youtube as a form guide I've been trying to make sure my form is correct by recording myself. . Additional advice would be welcome 
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On January 15 2015 15:57 malcram wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2015 06:46 Thalandros wrote:
Alright, so I've started doing the SL (stronglifts) 5x5 workout, or atleast trying to get used to all the exercises.
I started doing squats earlier this week. Done them twice now. I've done a bunch of leg pressing in the past (which primarily hits the quads just like squats do if I'm not mistaken), and pull 3x12x130KG easily on it. That's also why I find this a bit weird. Whenever I squat (right now just 20-25KG to get a hang of it and see my max, and really do go as far as I can, I feel a big burning ''sensation'' in my quads, much more than I maybe should, but nothing or barely anything in any other muscles (hamstrings and glutes?). I go ''ass to the grass'' as far as I'm able. Whether I use 20 or 25KG, the feeling is the same. Outside of the workout my upper legs really do feel worked (front, that is) and heavy, which is good I assume considering I'm getting used to the exercise.
I guess the problem is the ''pain'' doesn't go up as I do more reps or sets, it stays constant but starts off really ''burny'' in my quads already.
That, and I really need someone who knows his shit to check if I do proper form on Deadlifts before I start incorporating them 2x a week. I feel like I'm doing them right, but can't really do it without proper weights added to it so it's hard to judge by myself.
One last question: The 5x5 workout targets 3 big compound exercises per workout. This means the workouts will be very short. Should I add on some extra exercises (side lateral raises, arm curls, preacher curls, extensions, anything really) to make the workout a bit longer? I know the SL-workout targets overall body strength but I'd still like to be able to go to the gym for a significant amount of time and sometimes extra-work a specific group of muscles.
Thanks in advance for anyone willing to share knowledge to this fitness nub :> I've also started it not too long ago (6 weeks in). This is a progressive program. If you've downloaded the spreadsheet, take a look at the numbers at week 12 (you do not need to stop after 12 weeks). If you are a noob like I am, you'd start feeling it real soon on the rest days. As for adding other exercises. Personally, I throw in ab wheels whenever I'm waiting for a stream or show to start. I also do chin ups quite often when I pass by the bar at home. Before I started 5x5s I could barely do an ab wheel roll out and could barely complete 6 chin ups. Now abwheels are so much easier and I can easily do at least 12 chin ups now! Don't over do it though, rest days are meant for resting after all. This is my own experience though. I've even lost 2kgs after all that (I was running daily for a month before starting the 5x5 though). As for form, I myself don't really know who is the best person to watch for form. I checked out Rippetoe's videos on youtube as a form guide I've been trying to make sure my form is correct by recording myself. . Additional advice would be welcome
Just reiterating what everyone else is saying, have faith in the program. You can start adding some accessory work on top (preferably compound movements like dips, pull ups, etc) as you progress. Make sure you get your recovery and stick to the program though. I've been doing some linear progression for my upper body since my knee injury and my 3x5 or 5x5 for my bench / barbell rows / overhead press have gone up from 135/135/95 to 235/225/170 respectively in 2-3 months. I started way under what I knew I was capable of so I thought I could do all my sets perfectly and not worry about hitting a plateau. My bench has been higher in the past but those press and row #s are at all time highs and I haven't stalled out yet. Obviously your results will vary, I already have a huge strength base but the point is the program works.
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Zurich15353 Posts
But, for the love of Rippetoe, step out of the Smith Machine. You don't have a rack It's probably better to do dumbbell weighted pistol squats than whatever you do in the Smith Machine.
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Been lifting for about four months now. Things could've gone better (had a lot of sleeping and eating issues), but I'm fairly happy with my progress so far considering that I started with an empty bar (and still couldn't do 3x5 of that in most cases).
All values 5RM. Never tried to 1RM.
Squat: 250 lbs.
Deadlift: 255 lbs.
Bench: 122.5 lbs.
Press: 92.5 lbs.
Body weight: 150 lbs. to 187 lbs.
Height: 71 in.
A few questions:
1. For the press, I've always had a significant imbalance. My left arm goes up much easier and faster than my right arm, even though I'm right-handed. This really drags down my form (particularly on the last couple of reps). How can I fix this?
2. About a month ago, whole milk suddenly started giving me problems. Whenever I drink milk now, it gives me diarrhea. I never had this issue before. Anybody have any ideas about this one? I miss the cheap, easy calories. 
3. As I continue with Starting Strength, what should I do with my diet? I suppose I'll be "finishing" SS in the next few months, but until then, do I just continue with ~4000 kcal/day? I know that Rippetoe says not to worry about body fat percentage (up to about 19%), but if I keep eating this much, won't I just keep getting fatter? I'm already at about 18% body fat (started at about 12%) and I'm going to need to buy new pants soon, at this rate.
Thanks for your advice, guys.
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2. About a month ago, whole milk suddenly started giving me problems. Whenever I drink milk now, it gives me diarrhea. I never had this issue before. Anybody have any ideas about this one? I miss the cheap, easy calories.
congrats on getting old. when I was 24, i suddenly couldn't drink milk any more lol... gave me the runs as well. it's like overnight, i became lactose intolerant, doesn't help that i'm asian too. i think asians are more prone to being lactose intolerant. perhaps you can try soya bean milk? has protein in it and is tasty as well
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Do not drink soy milk. Just stop drinking milk. Use whey protein shake instead of milk.
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why not? as long as you are not drinking excessive amounts of it, it seems a perfectly fine replacement for milk.
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It's like terrible. Drink water. There is no earthly reason to drink soy milk.
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You can't just say it's terrible and not say why...
personally, I drink soy milk every once in a while as a dessert, where i'm from, there's tons of soy dessert products. milk is not a huge part of my diet. so I couldn't care less really about milk.
I was merely suggesting soy milk as a replacement for your cereal milk. I heard almond milk is pretty good too, some say it's even better but I hate the smell of almond milk.
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Supposedly soy has estrogen in it, turning you slowly but surely from Ken into Barbie.
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http://examine.com/faq/is-soy-good-or-bad-for-me.html
here's what i've found out. so i wouldn't worry too much about it really...
edit: clearly i didn't read the rest of the thread, turns out there was some discussion about soy products. all i can say is, to each his own. soy products make up a very large part of south east asian diet, really doubt it has that much of a negative effect.
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EPT
