Ohh, and I forgot to ask about cycling training, and the differences between it and training for running (besides the fact one is on a bike).
Racing is very, very different unless you happen to be going up a steep hill climb.
Training obviously has similarities but there are differences as well. One is just the sheer volume, especially if you're a really top guy training for multi day stage races. At the recreational level 10-15 hours a week is common, and for top guys it's not uncommon to train 20-25 hours a week.
In cycling, due to the lower impact you can do a greater volume of workouts as well, 2x20 min @ LT is a common session, as are things like 3x15, 4x10, etc. Some guys will even follow that up with VO2 max work afterwords. Another common one, that doesn't exist as much in running is the popularity of "tempo" work, or more what you like to call threshold. This is roughly 90% of ones FTP (one hour race power/effort). So if you can do 300W for an hour, tempo work would be in that 260-270W range. Sessions like these can be things like 1x60, 3x20, 2x20, 3x30, or even 1x90. In general there is also more training intensity, with it not being uncommon to have workouts 4-5 times a week whilst doing solid volume. Think:
Mon: 1.5 hr recovery (Z1) Tue: 2 hrs w/5x6 min @ 105-110% FTP (roughly VO2 max/5k effort) Wed: 3 hours Z2, Z3/Tempo up climbs Thu: 2 hrs w/2x20 min @ FTP, 5 min recovery Fri: 2 hours w/10x15s sprint + 60min tempo Sat: 3 hour easy spin + 10x30s ON /30s OFF neuromuscular work Sun: 5 hour spin (Z2)
Cycling also includes a greater emphasis on skills type work that you really don't see in running. Things like big gear work (<70 rpm) at a mod/high intensity, spinning drills, out of the saddle climbing, etc.
If you want a great read Cameron Cogburn has a really nice writeup about his training leading up to Mt. Washington. Keep in mind reading it though that this being an extremely steep HC (avg 12%) it's very much like training to run a half marathon, as the effort is just under an hour in length, and due to the climbing nature of it is much more like a race in that it's pure fitness (w/kg). Training for other races like crits, road races, etc. usually shifts the emphasis a little more to higher end power.
I got slightly injured after my workout at tuesday. About two hours after the run the top of foot started to hurt (the run was completely fine). Walking was painful. Tried to run the next day and had to turn around after a 100 metres. It has gotten better since but I still can't run. I'll continue to rest the weekend and gonna see a doctor at monday if I still can't run then. Until then cross-training on the stationary bike ... . I hope it's not a stress fracture but I imagine it would hurt more.
On January 23 2015 22:56 Don_Julio wrote: I got slightly injured after my workout at tuesday. About two hours after the run the top of foot started to hurt (the run was completely fine). Walking was painful. Tried to run the next day and had to turn around after a 100 metres. It has gotten better since but I still can't run. I'll continue to rest the weekend and gonna see a doctor at monday if I still can't run then. Until then cross-training on the stationary bike ... . I hope it's not a stress fracture but I imagine it would hurt more.
I don't really know much about your training background, but it's not uncommon for stress fractures to go unnoticed for some time.
On January 23 2015 22:56 Don_Julio wrote: I got slightly injured after my workout at tuesday. About two hours after the run the top of foot started to hurt (the run was completely fine). Walking was painful. Tried to run the next day and had to turn around after a 100 metres. It has gotten better since but I still can't run. I'll continue to rest the weekend and gonna see a doctor at monday if I still can't run then. Until then cross-training on the stationary bike ... . I hope it's not a stress fracture but I imagine it would hurt more.
Oh, man. No!!!!! So sorry to hear that, Don_Julio. Really hope it's not a fracture, too, and if it is that it heals soon.
On January 13 2015 03:58 Meat wrote: I'm in the Alpes now, trained a bit on a treadmill but I totally understimated the effect of height on my stamina and heart rate.
Haha yea it's pretty significant. I think I'm on the extreme end of the curve, but I live/train at 7500' (2000m) and when I come down to sea level I'm usually 30 sec/mile faster at a given effort than I am at home.
This running stuff is really doing it's best to drive me insane though. Just an aggravating combination of nagging stuff. First it's blisters, then it's a nagging achilles thing, then it's a week long head cold combined with 0 degree temps, then it's a calf spasm (charlie horse) that leaves the leg too sore to walk on for like 5 days....
you get the picture. It's like there is some force out there that is preventing me from running more then 15-20 miles in a given week.
Could also be a result of the high volume (12-15 hrs/wk) I've been doing for the past month or so, but everytime I do go out for a run I've really felt sluggish. I took my usual 2.5 week break in October and since coming back from that it's as if I've lost 40 s/mile from my paces. Admittedly, I'm about 10lbs heavier than I was right before that, but I don't think that explains a full 40s.
On the plus side though I've been eating freaking awesome since the 1st, weight is coming off, and the cycling is going very nice. Just need the damn running to come around since I really do want to take a crack at a nice 5k build leading to a goal race in April before I cycle full time in the summer.
Happy new year! Sorry I'm so late to the party here. It's great to see this thread rocking along, even if some passing hacker did insert "cycling" in the title for some reason. :p
Here's a quick rundown of where I'm at at the dawn of 2015 and where I hope to be.
My general goal this winter is to maintain more of the fitness from my last race cycle than I've done in the past. For the two winters previous to this, which are the first two after I got a bit more serious about running, I've clocked around 70k per week, all of it pretty easy. I've settled on a sub-2:30 as a good marathoning goal for the next two years, and getting there means throwing away less work in the cold months.
So since I recovered from the marathon I ran in October I've been hitting 100 k per week with at least one workout. For a while, this meant running on a treadmill, but I cancelled my membership after about six weeks because treadmills were making me hate running. I'd been going to the indoor track since then on my own, though that changed today because of an exciting development I'll get to shortly.
The other notable change this season for me is that I've met a lot more local runners and I've been running with company a lot more. There are two guys in particular, one with a 2:28 PB and the other 2:34, who have been very good training buddies. They both suggested I seek out some coaching, and mentioned another local guy who trains a ton of people and ran 2:20 many moons ago.
So today I went to me first group workout with this new group. It was a mix of an outdoor tempo workout and short indoor intervals, and overall I'm very surprised at how good I felt, even if I did feel like a bit of an old fart. Most people in the group are in their early 20s. I'm 28, and though I could once dunk pretty good (I'm about 6'2 and played basketball in high school and university), my peak explosive days are far behind me. So for the tempo part of the workout I was right at the front of the group and feeling very comfortable, and then when we did the short stuff I was hanging on for dear life at the back of the pack.
Anyway, I'm super jazzed about the group and very excited to start working towards my 2015 goals. These are:
4:45 road mile: there's a marked mile I often run. The record was 4:45 on Strava until recently when it disappeared, leaving me the KOM with a 4:53. Before it went down an Internet black hole, I wanted to wrest that record away fair and square. I think I can still do it, though I'm not sure exactly when it would make most sense to put in a good attempt. This is by far my least important goal.
1:15 spring half marathon: registered for Vancouver (May 3) yesterday. I probably wont' be in shape to challenge my PB (1:13), but I've heard it's a fast course and I've still got four months to get ready, so I think a respectable 1:15 will be possible.
PB in August half marathon: one of my training buddies has a PB of 1:12-mid, so I think trying to best him would be a good goal.
New marathon PB in the fall: I know I can go faster than 2:39. Actually, I'm pretty sure I was able to last fall too, but some dumb decisions and bad luck intervened. So technically anything under 2:39 would fit the bill here, but I think trying to get as far below 2:35 as possible is a more inspiring goal.
The only other fitness change I've made is chinups. After about two months of work, I can now do three sets of ten reps pretty well, and last weekend I installed a sweet chin bar in my place so now I don't even have to go to the gym to do them. I think they're a great addition to my core strength exercises, plus they help out a gun show a bit, which doesn't hurt any.
And that's me for running in 2015, at least so far. I meant for this to be short, but evidently I'm a huge blabbermouth.
Happy new year! Sorry I'm so late to the party here. It's great to see this thread rocking along, even if some passing hacker did insert "cycling" in the title for some reason. :p
Here's a quick rundown of where I'm at at the dawn of 2015 and where I hope to be.
My general goal this winter is to maintain more of the fitness from my last race cycle than I've done in the past. For the two winters previous to this, which are the first two after I got a bit more serious about running, I've clocked around 70k per week, all of it pretty easy. I've settled on a sub-2:30 as a good marathoning goal for the next two years, and getting there means throwing away less work in the cold months.
So since I recovered from the marathon I ran in October I've been hitting 100 k per week with at least one workout. For a while, this meant running on a treadmill, but I cancelled my membership after about six weeks because treadmills were making me hate running. I'd been going to the indoor track since then on my own, though that changed today because of an exciting development I'll get to shortly.
The other notable change this season for me is that I've met a lot more local runners and I've been running with company a lot more. There are two guys in particular, one with a 2:28 PB and the other 2:34, who have been very good training buddies. They both suggested I seek out some coaching, and mentioned another local guy who trains a ton of people and ran 2:20 many moons ago.
So today I went to me first group workout with this new group. It was a mix of an outdoor tempo workout and short indoor intervals, and overall I'm very surprised at how good I felt, even if I did feel like a bit of an old fart. Most people in the group are in their early 20s. I'm 28, and though I could once dunk pretty good (I'm about 6'2 and played basketball in high school and university), my peak explosive days are far behind me. So for the tempo part of the workout I was right at the front of the group and feeling very comfortable, and then when we did the short stuff I was hanging on for dear life at the back of the pack.
Anyway, I'm super jazzed about the group and very excited to start working towards my 2015 goals. These are:
4:45 road mile: there's a marked mile I often run. The record was 4:45 on Strava until recently when it disappeared, leaving me the KOM with a 4:53. Before it went down an Internet black hole, I wanted to wrest that record away fair and square. I think I can still do it, though I'm not sure exactly when it would make most sense to put in a good attempt. This is by far my least important goal.
1:15 spring half marathon: registered for Vancouver (May 3) yesterday. I probably wont' be in shape to challenge my PB (1:13), but I've heard it's a fast course and I've still got four months to get ready, so I think a respectable 1:15 will be possible.
PB in August half marathon: one of my training buddies has a PB of 1:12-mid, so I think trying to best him would be a good goal.
New marathon PB in the fall: I know I can go faster than 2:39. Actually, I'm pretty sure I was able to last fall too, but some dumb decisions and bad luck intervened. So technically anything under 2:39 would fit the bill here, but I think trying to get as far below 2:35 as possible is a more inspiring goal.
The only other fitness change I've made is chinups. After about two months of work, I can now do three sets of ten reps pretty well, and last weekend I installed a sweet chin bar in my place so now I don't even have to go to the gym to do them. I think they're a great addition to my core strength exercises, plus they help out a gun show a bit, which doesn't hurt any.
And that's me for running in 2015, at least so far. I meant for this to be short, but evidently I'm a huge blabbermouth.
That makes me excited to follow your races this year. Having a coach and a group of people who are even faster than you are will be great for your performance. ___________
My foot injury: I'm pretty sure it's not a stress fracture or else it would hurt much more. I went cold turkey with running last week and the issue was goneat the weekend. Jogged a little at monday and had no problems. Ran my usual route yesterday and at abut 45 minutes the issue came back and persisits until now. It fits the symptoms of a bone spur the best (from reading the link in the OP) and I'm not quite sure how to treat this so I probably have to see a doctor after all. I hate not being able to run. I immediately feel worse physically and emotionally. I need this sport.
Hi guys! Just started running so I though maybe participating in this thread would keep me motivated Started about two weeks ago from being incredibly unfit, and have been running for 6 days consistently now, the same 2.5km circuit around the block to build up fitness/stamina. So far so good. I'm planning to be able to run it twice in the next two weeks or so. Or is that a bit of a ridiculous goal?
On January 29 2015 13:20 dravernor wrote: Hi guys! Just started running so I though maybe participating in this thread would keep me motivated Started about two weeks ago from being incredibly unfit, and have been running for 6 days consistently now, the same 2.5km circuit around the block to build up fitness/stamina. So far so good. I'm planning to be able to run it twice in the next two weeks or so. Or is that a bit of a ridiculous goal?
You can run it twice tomorrow if you keep the pace under control. Run the first 2.5k about 3 min slower than whatever you have been, then when you get halfway through the second 2.5k go ahead and finish faster if you feel good.
On January 29 2015 13:20 dravernor wrote: Hi guys! Just started running so I though maybe participating in this thread would keep me motivated Started about two weeks ago from being incredibly unfit, and have been running for 6 days consistently now, the same 2.5km circuit around the block to build up fitness/stamina. So far so good. I'm planning to be able to run it twice in the next two weeks or so. Or is that a bit of a ridiculous goal?
You can run it twice tomorrow if you keep the pace under control. Run the first 2.5k about 3 min slower than whatever you have been, then when you get halfway through the second 2.5k go ahead and finish faster if you feel good.
Oh really? And here I was looking at the couch to 5k program and thinking I was taking it a bit fast to be doing this in one week. My pace is pretty sucky at the moment, but I never considered that important until I could run the 2.5k comfortably, then I would focus on it. I'm just worried about burning out, y'know?
Anyway, thanks for the advice. I might try it next week when I'm a little more confident with my stamina.
Your fitness level is beyond C25K already. You can run 2,5k 6 times a week without walking so I guess you could run a 5k without stopping. Just make sure you don't up your mileage too fast. Rule of thumb is max 10% per week (but can be more at your level). So increase the distance of one of your runs and make that your long run.
Was at an orthopaedist today. My foot is no fracture, bone spur or any malfuntion with a joint. The doc's elaborated gues is that it's Tenosynovitis most likely caused by shoes that are too tight. I have to not run until the issue is gone. They taped my foot to stabilze it and I will get insoles because the X-Ray showed that my foot is a little weak (nothing drastic though). Will try a different lacing technique when I can run again and probably put some foam rubber between the injured spot and the shoe.
Was at an orthopaedist today. My foot is no fracture, bone spur or any malfuntion with a joint. The doc's elaborated gues is that it's Tenosynovitis most likely caused by shoes that are too tight. I have to not run until the issue is gone. They taped my foot to stabilze it and I will get insoles because the X-Ray showed that my foot is a little weak (nothing drastic though). Will try a different lacing technique when I can run again and probably put some foam rubber between the injured spot and the shoe.
Glad to hear that it's not anything more major. Let me know how the insoles work out for you - I had a bit of planar fasciitis last year that I'm hoping doesn't pop up again and have considered insoles. Did your doctors recommend any lower leg/foot strength exercises?
Was at an orthopaedist today. My foot is no fracture, bone spur or any malfuntion with a joint. The doc's elaborated gues is that it's Tenosynovitis most likely caused by shoes that are too tight. I have to not run until the issue is gone. They taped my foot to stabilze it and I will get insoles because the X-Ray showed that my foot is a little weak (nothing drastic though). Will try a different lacing technique when I can run again and probably put some foam rubber between the injured spot and the shoe.
Glad to hear that it's not anything more major. Let me know how the insoles work out for you - I had a bit of planar fasciitis last year that I'm hoping doesn't pop up again and have considered insoles. Did your doctors recommend any lower leg/foot strength exercises?
I asked for it but he said that it's too much effort and therefore unrealistic to do enough excercises to have a meaningful effect. Kinda weird. Maybe he just didn't want to spend anymore of his time with me because his practice was packed.
Good luck with your Ultra. Are you serious about wanting to become an Ultrarunner or is it a one time thing?
I've never been around the big league or really top runners (i.e. just casual running clubs, and decent but not great high school), so seeing guys that improved so much from basically nothing always struck me as really incredible, moreso than the bunch of guys that flip flopped around being in the "fast" range. That's a ton of work ethic to pull off. Building consistency is really key, so you got a great start!
I'm still having issue with my knee (some kind of tendinitis on the lateral side i think, i just hope it's not the meniscus because that would suck...), and now there is too much snow for me to run... i guess i'll keep to in-door climbing for now.
EPT
