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Running/Cycling Thread - 2015 Edition - Page 24

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mtmentat
Profile Joined April 2011
United States142 Posts
October 21 2015 15:51 GMT
#461
On October 19 2015 05:30 Jetaap wrote:
I had some things I had to shake off my head this afternoon, so I went for a 5K and tried to push myself a bit. It's pathetic compared to some of you, but i'm quite pleased by my improvement: my last 5k was 24:42 and i ran this one in 22:27 (https://www.strava.com/activities/415553497)
A nice objective would be to run a 10k at this pace, if i don't injure myself it should be doable no? I don't realize if it's realistic, if I go for longer runs my knees end up really sore for 1 or 2 days, to the point where it's really bothering to walk so it's a bit scary .


What surfaces are you running on, Jetaap? Training for the longer distance will require longer runs, but this doesn't mean that it has to hurt. I have bad knees, too, and so I try to find nice soft paths and asphalt if I must when adding mileage. Stay off the pavement and cement, for sure! As you run more often/further, the muscles around your knees will get stronger, too, and this will help with minimizing swelling as long as you're taking the new distances at an easy/leisurely pace and not adding on too much at once.

Good luck! I definitely think you can do a sub-45 minute 10k. Nothing is "pathetic" when it comes to improving your running - keep us posted!
L_Master
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8017 Posts
October 21 2015 16:19 GMT
#462
On October 21 2015 09:34 Bonham wrote:
I'm glad you guys found it amusing. I had a pretty good laugh when I got home. Also thanks for the explanations.

To answer L_Master's questions:

I've replaced the tires that came on my Jake with slightly smoother commuter ones. So not nobbly but not skinny either. Just kind of smooth with a small amount of tread. I was wearing 7" running shorts and a t-shirt.



Yea, I'd venture to guess you're losing about 2-3 kph at that speed with that kind of tires/clothing. That and obviously keep in mind your cycling leg musculature wouldn't be very developed. You can have a great engine, but if you're muscles aren't able to push the power you need, or do so efficiently, you won't be a super fast cyclist initially.
EffOrt and Soulkey Hwaiting!
mtmentat
Profile Joined April 2011
United States142 Posts
October 21 2015 17:09 GMT
#463
On October 19 2015 06:54 Bonham wrote:
“If you're going to die, die with your boots on.” – Iron Maiden, “Die With Your Boots On,” 1983

Iron Maiden is the best for running songs/quotes. My cross country team in HS had a great rendition of "Ironman" ready at all times.

+ Show Spoiler +

When I came by City Park in Kelowna to pick up my bib for the Okanagan Marathon, a children's race was about to start. It was a 1K road race, one of those novelty events race organizers sometimes hold on the day before the race proper. I was interested to observe that the tendency to go out hot and blow up, as common in fully-grown road runners as enthusiasm for finisher's medals, apparently begins well before puberty. A horde of children, some of whom looked like they'd just recently learned to walk, stampeded down the road and around the first turn. The course ran a short circuit around the race pavilion, so I was able to see every single racer tie up on the back stretch and walk home. Take note: apparently you can hit the wall even in a thousand metre race.

Later I went to a Korean place for lunch with my family and girlfriend, all of whom had travelled long distances to come see me run. Halfway through my bowl of noodle soup, panic gripped me. It suddenly dawned on me that there had been a little shredded red cabbage garnishing the dish, and I'd eaten it without a second thought. As I'd learned the hard way in training that raw cabbage was to my GI system what the Death Star was to Alderaan, I was concerned. I even asked my girlfriend, who is a physician, if she could get me an emetic on short notice. Sensibly, she declined.

I often have trouble sleeping the night before a race, but this marathon was particularly bad. Lying on a squishy couch bed in our rented condo, I tossed and turned and turned and tossed without end. I listened to the wind, which sounded like it was blowing at hurricane-force. Sleep eventually came, but not for long. Four thirty, it turns out, comes pretty early in the morning.

Prerace breakfast was steel-cut oats with a little milk and jam, and a few cups of coffee. To my relief, my guts were moving well, and I took advantage of the fact that everyone else was asleep to make liberal use of the bathroom. Around 5, my girlfriend got up and ate a bit of oatmeal with me. As someone with Known Executive Capabilities, she's a comfort to me whenever I'm feeling nervous, and I seldom feel more nervous than I did that morning.

This race weighed on me like no other in my memory. I'd had an uneven season despite some pretty solid training, punctuated by a disappointing half marathon in August. Training had gone quite well since then, though, and I knew if everything went well I could break 2:30 today. But what if everything didn't go well? My mind churned with fears of wind, of rain, of going off-course, of screwing up my feed schedule, of getting scalped in the last five k, of getting sabotaged by my bowels. More than anything, I didn't want to quit if things got tough. I'd really phoned in that half marathon and the experience of throwing a mid-race pity party for yourself was not one I wanted to repeat.

Then she pinned my bib onto my singlet, I put on my uniform and warmup clothes, and we piled into a car to go down to the start race. My parents, along with my brother and sister-in-law, sensibly slept a bit more and met us later.

A word about this uniform: I received a modest sponsorship this year. In exchange for some free shoes and discounts on running clothes, I'm obliged to wear a pair of very short shorts and a singlet that, combined, but barely meet the demands of decency. I've gotten used to them, but when I first tried them on I remember feeling like I was not too far from running around in my underwear. Good thing I wouldn't be wearing this in some situation where my picture would be taken a bunch, right? Right.

Awesome! Glad to hear about sponsorship. Those shorts are very modest relative to what some runners go for!

+ Show Spoiler +

The race site was dark and very quiet when we arrived. The Okanagan Marathon is not huge, and one of the advantages of its size is that parking is easier to find, and lineups to portapotties shorter. The downside of a small race is that the organization might be suspect, and the odds of finding someone to run with are lower.

So I used the biff, warmed up, and made my way to the start line. I also ran into a bunch of runners I knew here. This year I met almost all of the players in Edmonton's running scene, and a bunch were around the start to run the half marathon, which started 30 minutes after the full. It would be my last time i familiar company for the rest of the morning.

I wasn't quite sure what to expect when the gun went off. I knew from looking at previous winning times and chatting with some running friends that I was probably going to run most of the race on my own. But who knows how the first 10k will roll? Someone might try to hang and blow up real bad. Maybe a 2:2x guy would be there and drag me along for a bit.

Instead, I was on my own after about 100 metres. With a weird mix of excitement and resignation, I tried to settle in. Excitement because I'd been building to this race since May and knew I had it in me to run a good time. Resignation because the first half of a marathon is such a test of patience–if it feels like you're working, you're working too hard. There's nothing to do but sit back and let the miles roll by, and I've never been a particularly patient guy.

To pass the time, I chatted with the cyclists a bit. I had two with me at that point, and they were as eager for stimulation as me. They asked me my PRs, my age, and my goals. I asked them if they'd switch with me after 20 miles.

Goal pace was 3:32/km, and it felt just like marathon pace should. We noodled out through an industrial area, then back along the shore of Lake Okanagan. Kelowna is a pretty hilly town, but the Okanagan course is very flat. This flatness comes at a price: the half marathon course has lots of turns in it, and the full course is just two laps of the half route. Since the half starts a haf hour after the full, I was going to have to pass a good portion of the half marathon field in the second half of the race, when energy stores are low and decision-making is suspect.

I popped my first gel at 5k, though I was not remotely hungry. I'm a firm believer that running a good marathon is as much about nailing the intra-race nutrition as anything else, and after much experimentation and hand-wringing had decided to take gel at 5k, 15k, 25k, and 35k. A schedule like this had worked pretty well in training, though I'd never taken four in one run.

After about eight k, I had my first taste of what you might call the mass media angle of this experience. I was already a good ways ahead of the rest of the field, and some dude I didn't know from Adam rolled up on his bike and started snapping pictures of me. He didn't introduce himself or ask me if I minded or anything. Our only conversation came when I pointed out some cars approaching on the other side of the road, as he was riding in the left lane. After about ten minutes he rode off.

Ten miles in, the course crossed one of Kelowna's many 60 kph speed limit roads. Cars have seldom heard a discouraging word from pedestrians in Kelowna, and they drive like they are used to it. The course marshals mistakenly let a taxi cab onto the road just as I was approaching. Dude must have been making 70 kph as I came to the crossing.
I was weighing whether the forces of cosmic justice would protect me if I didn't interrupt my stride to let him pass when my cyclists showed great courage and stopped in the middle of the road before I hit it. The taxi slammed on its breaks and I went through the intersection with no problem.

Damn, your cyclist was a badass! Kudos to him, and glad you didn't end up roadkill.
+ Show Spoiler +

I hit halfway right on schedule at 1:14 high and passed through the finish zone. There was a good sized crowd there by now, and I heard my name come over the sound system and saw my family and people started to cheer for me, including my girlfriend adorably waving her arms like an air-traffic controller. This gave me a little boost of adrenaline and I felt very, very strong as I cruised through and started my second lap.

The legs started to feel a bit heavy here, but I wasn't panicked. I knew I'd put in some good work and feeling a little tired was OK. One of the benefits of this two-lap course was that I had a lot of encouragement from the other runners. People would say “look at him go!” or “holy shit!” or whatnot as I passed by, which for the most part made up for the hassle of navigating around them as I tried to run the tangents. Accessing the water stations was also harder from here, but my cyclist, sterling guy that he was, realized this. He started to ask me if I wanted water as we approached a station, then he'd ride ahead, let them know, and get someone out onto the left side of the course to hand me drink. What a guy!

Around 25k I started to feel a bit rough. The day was a bit hotter and windier than ideal conditions, and with no one to race against I had little to occupy my mind other than the next ten daunting miles. Twenty five to 30k was not great, though looking at the splits in retrospect I can see I didn't slow at all until I hit 30k. I ran that one in 3:42 and the next two at the same speed. It dawned on me that 2:2x probably was not going to happen to day at this point, but I thought that 2:3-low was still possible and I resolved to push as much as I could. I got under 3:40/km for the next three.

Then I hit 35k and popped my final gel. My stomach felt very unhappy about this and instantly cramped. Looking at my splits now, I'm amazed at how quickly this makes itself felt. I ran the thirty-sixth k in 3:52, then 3:49 and 3:55.

This was when the marathon really had me in its house of pain. I tried to spit, but I lacked the necessary energy so this gross gobbet to phlem stuck to my face. I also lacked the energy to wipe it away, so it hung there for the rest of the race. I tried to croak a joke to my cyclist about switching. Recognizing my distress, he tried to get the half marathoners to give me a cheer, but when they cheered all I could do was stare and grimace at them. Smiling was not possible and their adulation brought no comfort.

Everyone dreams about digging deep and charging through the last few miles of a marathon, but as I entered the home stretch all I could think about was making the pain stop. Over the final four k I slowed to what felt like a total death march. My stomach complained. Three separate times my hamstrings spasmed violently. It felt just like Portland last year. I knew if they seized up, not only would I DNF, I might collapse and smack my head on the asphalt.

It felt like the cells in my body banded together in a supermajority and presented my prefrontal cortex with a unanimous petition to stop moving immediately. Issuing the a veto took all the willpower at my disposal. It hurt so much I forgot to enjoy winning a marathon for the first time in my life. I stopped looking at my watch. I stopped hearing the cheers of the crowd, increasingly loud as I approached the finish. I staggered onward and wondered if being dead would feel better than this.

Laughed so much as this good descriptive passage! Time for President Bonham to lay down the law!
+ Show Spoiler +


I waddled up the finishing chute and over the line, then shuffled over to the barricade to hug my girlfriend. My amazing family all hugged my sweaty, spit-stained body without the slightest hesitation. After a few minutes, I turned around to find a bottle of water to drink.

A pack of reporters was waiting for me. With no preamble, they started spitting questions. How did I deal with the wind? Was it hard to race on my own? Was it fun to win? What did I think about the organization? I stammered out whatever nonsense came to mind into the bouquet of hungry microphones. After five or ten minutes, they left me in peace.

Looking back, I’m most proud of those final four k. I ran them pretty slow--about 4:04 on average--but I didn’t give up the way I had at the half marathon in August. I’m not sure I really embraced the suffering the way the best runners do in the last quarter of a marathon (and like I know I can when things go well), but when things hurt the most I kept fighting. I died, but at least I died with my boots on. That’s an encouraging thought.

In the final analysis, I can say the following things went sideways on me:

1 The last gel really stung. I lost 13 seconds/k right after I took it, and things only got worse from there. I don’t know if I should have just had three and spread them out more, or waited more to eat the final one, or tried liquid calories or what, but I need to make some changes to nutrition for the next one.
2 This is the second marathon in row where I’ve had my legs freak out and spasm in the final stretch. I need to figure out what makes this happen and prevent it. One of my running buddies prescribed coconut water the night before a race to me when I told him about Portland. At the time I thought he was crazy--he’s never met a supplement he didn’t like--but I may revisit his council for my next marathon.

Hmmm... I've been on the other end of the spectrum (WTF is a supplement/gel/running nutrition, anyway?!) for most of my running life, but recently have really enjoyed a particular liquid calorie (TailWind) that got me through Dirty 30 and really seems to sit well. If you can't get it up there to try, PM me and I'll send you some.
+ Show Spoiler +

3 The weather was unexpectedly hot and windy. Not disastrously so, but an appreciable distance from ideal conditions.
4 Running the whole thing as a time trial made it harder to really lean in when the going got tough.
5 I failed to realize how terrible my form looked at the precise point when everyone in Kelowna would be taking a picture of me. The photos local newspaper photographers took of me as I finished make it look like I race-walked the whole distance.

All in all, though, it was a really fun experience. Despite everything that went wrong, I still took six minutes off my old PB and confirmed that I can break 2:30 next year if I keep working. My guts didn’t betray me and I didn’t get lost. Plus I had a lot of fun and got to break the tape for the first time ever.
+ Show Spoiler +

I can’t wait to get back at it, though the few easy runs I’ve tried in the week after the race have confirmed that I should probably wait a bit more.

It’s tough, though, because running is the best.

All and all, BADASS. FTW literally. Thanks for the good write-up: humorous, loquacious, and inspirational as always.
Jetaap
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France4814 Posts
October 21 2015 20:51 GMT
#464
On October 22 2015 00:51 mtmentat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2015 05:30 Jetaap wrote:
I had some things I had to shake off my head this afternoon, so I went for a 5K and tried to push myself a bit. It's pathetic compared to some of you, but i'm quite pleased by my improvement: my last 5k was 24:42 and i ran this one in 22:27 (https://www.strava.com/activities/415553497)
A nice objective would be to run a 10k at this pace, if i don't injure myself it should be doable no? I don't realize if it's realistic, if I go for longer runs my knees end up really sore for 1 or 2 days, to the point where it's really bothering to walk so it's a bit scary .


What surfaces are you running on, Jetaap? Training for the longer distance will require longer runs, but this doesn't mean that it has to hurt. I have bad knees, too, and so I try to find nice soft paths and asphalt if I must when adding mileage. Stay off the pavement and cement, for sure! As you run more often/further, the muscles around your knees will get stronger, too, and this will help with minimizing swelling as long as you're taking the new distances at an easy/leisurely pace and not adding on too much at once.

Good luck! I definitely think you can do a sub-45 minute 10k. Nothing is "pathetic" when it comes to improving your running - keep us posted!


The easiest place to run from where I live is a path that follows the river, on one side it's some kind of gravel path, but on the other it's asphalt, the issue it's that's there is a small lateral slope to the road, and that's really a problem for my knees.It's not perfect but i don't know if I can find much better :s (the city where i live is surrounded by mountains so it's not that easy to find some flat places to run .)
I'm going to try to continue and increase my mileage very progressively, seems to be working out okay for now, hopefully in a month or two i'll be able to run 10k regularly without hurting my knees.
L_Master
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8017 Posts
October 22 2015 02:44 GMT
#465
Another good workout today.

3:37
3:34
3:31
3:28
3:22

Average 3:30.4 with the usual 60s recovery. On a workout roll right now with each workout being noticeably better than the last. Probably that will end soon. Feels good to finally tap back into some of the level of talent I felt like I had with my progression in '11. Quite excited to see where this goes.

Next race will be Oct 31, but slower gravel course. I'd be okay with 18:30 and anything under 18:00 would be excellent.
EffOrt and Soulkey Hwaiting!
Mikau
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Netherlands1446 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-23 18:08:00
October 23 2015 18:07 GMT
#466
On October 11 2015 07:10 Mikau wrote:
I've just started getting back into running (actually did my first 10 km training run in 3 years the other day, while being 10kg heavier than the last time I did one). I want to keep working at my running to be able to potentially do 5k/10k/half marathon 'races' next spring/summer. I read online that if you don't run at least 3 times per week you won't really see any long term improvement. I however also bike (about 25km x2 as a commute) a couple days a week, practice karate (1-2 times per week) and am trying to teach myself how to swim. So at the moment I can't really run 3 times a week without sacrificing a lot of my other activities, which are important to me for various reasons.

How true is the 3x per week thing to see improvement? With all the sporting I'll be doing this winter my general fitness will improve ofcourse and that should benefit my running I guess, but that would be true even if I didn't run. So, how much of a point is there to running if I can't do 3x per week? And assuming I'm sticking to 1 day a week, what would be the best way to improve (speed being more important to me than mileage at this point)?

Hate to do this, but quoting myself to see if anybody has any input on this, mainly about the low amount of runs a week.

Did a bit of a benchmark 5k run yesterday, in the terrible time of 33:00. Going to work hard at getting that below 30:00 (which is laughable compared to people here but feels like a huge treshold for me).
14CC
Profile Blog Joined May 2015
93 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-23 19:01:14
October 23 2015 18:57 GMT
#467
On October 24 2015 03:07 Mikau wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2015 07:10 Mikau wrote:
I've just started getting back into running (actually did my first 10 km training run in 3 years the other day, while being 10kg heavier than the last time I did one). I want to keep working at my running to be able to potentially do 5k/10k/half marathon 'races' next spring/summer. I read online that if you don't run at least 3 times per week you won't really see any long term improvement. I however also bike (about 25km x2 as a commute) a couple days a week, practice karate (1-2 times per week) and am trying to teach myself how to swim. So at the moment I can't really run 3 times a week without sacrificing a lot of my other activities, which are important to me for various reasons.

How true is the 3x per week thing to see improvement? With all the sporting I'll be doing this winter my general fitness will improve ofcourse and that should benefit my running I guess, but that would be true even if I didn't run. So, how much of a point is there to running if I can't do 3x per week? And assuming I'm sticking to 1 day a week, what would be the best way to improve (speed being more important to me than mileage at this point)?

Hate to do this, but quoting myself to see if anybody has any input on this, mainly about the low amount of runs a week.

Did a bit of a benchmark 5k run yesterday, in the terrible time of 33:00. Going to work hard at getting that below 30:00 (which is laughable compared to people here but feels like a huge treshold for me).

If you're taking good care of your body (resting well, good warmup/cooldown/stretching routine, eating well, not being too stressed out generally) and you're doing a decent ammount of auxiliary cardio (like your commuting), then yeah, sure, you're going to improve your running some even if you only run one time a week. Especially if you make a conscious effort to pay attention to your running form. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to run a marathon, continuously running one time a week. But you're not going to break the world record if you only run once a week ^^

But then again there's no point concerning yourself with how fast you're running you unless you're a professional athlete. As long as you're having fun running and your body feels good, you're not going to feel any difference whether the clock says you ran a marathon in 3 hours or 4 hours.

Edit: typo GG
14CC
Profile Blog Joined May 2015
93 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-23 19:00:59
October 23 2015 19:00 GMT
#468
double post
L_Master
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8017 Posts
October 23 2015 20:34 GMT
#469
On October 24 2015 03:07 Mikau wrote:
I've just started getting back into running (actually did my first 10 km training run in 3 years the other day, while being 10kg heavier than the last time I did one). I want to keep working at my running to be able to potentially do 5k/10k/half marathon 'races' next spring/summer. I read online that if you don't run at least 3 times per week you won't really see any long term improvement. I however also bike (about 25km x2 as a commute) a couple days a week, practice karate (1-2 times per week) and am trying to teach myself how to swim. So at the moment I can't really run 3 times a week without sacrificing a lot of my other activities, which are important to me for various reasons.

How true is the 3x per week thing to see improvement? With all the sporting I'll be doing this winter my general fitness will improve of-course and that should benefit my running I guess, but that would be true even if I didn't run. So, how much of a point is there to running if I can't do 3x per week? And assuming I'm sticking to 1 day a week, what would be the best way to improve (speed being more important to me than mileage at this point)?


If all you did was run once or twice a week and nothing else you'd probably get better for a few months and then more or less remain at a similar level. 1-2 hours a week is not really much of a stimulus to the body.

However, the bolded part is not really true, particularly depending on what you do and what is paired with it. In other words, since you're cycling 100km a week and doing a little swimming (karate doesn't do much for aerobic performance) you've got plenty of aerobic stimulus to improve. You'll definitely get better. You're running won't improve as fast as it would if you did 50km a week of cycling and 50km a week of running, but there is no question you'll improve with smart training.

On October 24 2015 03:07 Mikau wrote:
So at the moment I can't really run 3 times a week without sacrificing a lot of my other activities, which are important to me for various reasons.


Unless you have a truly insane schedule, in which case I apologize for being a little accusatory, like working 60 hours or more a week and going to school at the same time I'm pretty skeptical of claims like this. I've worked 40 hours a week, while going to school full time with medical volunteering on the side and other activities, and still could fit training 15+ hours a week without insane difficulty. Some people managed to do all of that with a family as well.

You've got two weekend days. Unless there is something unique going on there that literally takes the entire day there is time for a 2-3 miles there. Then it's just a matter of finding another 30 min spot, or waking up 30 minutes earlier one day of the week.

On October 24 2015 03:07 Mikau wrote:
And assuming I'm sticking to 1 day a week, what would be the best way to improve (speed being more important to me than mileage at this point)?


Assuming you are opting for 1 day a week of running, I would alternate:

"Even" weeks do a progression run of about 30-45 minutes starting off very easy, say 13:00 mile ish pace, gradually getting faster and faster till you're at a "comfortably hard" pace for the last 15 minutes, and if you want you can blast the last 2 min even harder just don't go so hard there you tie up. Then on "odd" weeks do a session of 8x400m at a hard pace (right now probably around 2:10-2:15 per 400m) with a walk recovery for on straightaway of the track (60s recovery). Finish it off with 4x200m at truly fast clip, less than 40s per 200, with a good long recovery of 2:00 between each. That will give you a decent balance between aerobic strength and speed in the legs.




EffOrt and Soulkey Hwaiting!
L_Master
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8017 Posts
October 23 2015 20:46 GMT
#470
On October 24 2015 03:57 14CC wrote:
If you're taking good care of your body (resting well, good warmup/cooldown/stretching routine, eating well, not being too stressed out generally) and you're doing a decent ammount of auxiliary cardio (like your commuting), then yeah, sure, you're going to improve your running some even if you only run one time a week.


Excellent summary! Improvements from one day a week of running with some supplementary aerobic training are not only possible, they are certain.


On October 24 2015 03:57 14CC wrote:
There's no reason you shouldn't be able to run a marathon, continuously running one time a week.


I slightly disagree here. The marathon especially is incredibly stressful on the body. That's a massive amount of impact, and in some ways is worse if you're slower as you're out there for 4 or even 5 hours. That's a tremendous amount of physical trauma to the muscles, tendons, and ligaments that one day a week of running simply will not prepare you for.

Do I believe you could get yourself to the finish line from the start line in one piece running once a week? Yea probably so. But the last half and especially last 10km are going to be a death march. I'd be happy to throw down a bet that someone without a running background running one day a week will not be able to finish a marathon without one or more walk breaks.

On October 24 2015 03:57 14CC wrote:
But then again there's no point concerning yourself with how fast you're running you unless you're a professional athlete. As long as you're having fun running and your body feels good, you're not going to feel any difference whether the clock says you ran a marathon in 3 hours or 4 hours.


Say what? You're going to feel a significant difference because running faster feels...well....faster. It's like saying I'm not going to notice a difference if I ride my bike up a hill at 5mph or at 20mph. Of course I will. The airflow over me will be different, my perceptions of surroundings going by me will be difference, and the sensations from my body will be dramatically different as I'm physically using a longer stride with more force.

I agree you shouldn't be obsessed with how fast you're going or entirely dependent on your race times and improvement for enjoyment unless your a professional, but shooting to become faster and training to achieve that goal is absolutely worth striving for, and running faster, at least for myself and most I've run into, feels much, much better than running slower. It's not the only thing I get enjoyment out of from running, but there is no doubt for me the faster I'm going and can go the more fun I'm having.
EffOrt and Soulkey Hwaiting!
14CC
Profile Blog Joined May 2015
93 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-23 21:36:50
October 23 2015 21:30 GMT
#471
On October 24 2015 05:46 L_Master wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 03:57 14CC wrote:
There's no reason you shouldn't be able to run a marathon, continuously running one time a week.


I slightly disagree here. The marathon especially is incredibly stressful on the body. That's a massive amount of impact, and in some ways is worse if you're slower as you're out there for 4 or even 5 hours. That's a tremendous amount of physical trauma to the muscles, tendons, and ligaments that one day a week of running simply will not prepare you for.

Do I believe you could get yourself to the finish line from the start line in one piece running once a week? Yea probably so. But the last half and especially last 10km are going to be a death march. I'd be happy to throw down a bet that someone without a running background running one day a week will not be able to finish a marathon without one or more walk breaks.

Well, he did say he's getting back into running so he has some kind of running background! He has about half a year till spring/summer when he's thinking about racing. While muscle mass and aerobic capacity deteriorate rather quickly, his tendons and ligaments will not be too bad off even if it's been a long time since he used to run (as long as he's been walking some in his day to day activities which seems to be the case - and as long as he hasn't had the disfortune of dealing with nasty injuries).
That said, what's wrong with walk breaks?!!!! xD

On October 24 2015 05:46 L_Master wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 03:57 14CC wrote:
But then again there's no point concerning yourself with how fast you're running you unless you're a professional athlete. As long as you're having fun running and your body feels good, you're not going to feel any difference whether the clock says you ran a marathon in 3 hours or 4 hours.


Say what? You're going to feel a significant difference because running faster feels...well....faster. It's like saying I'm not going to notice a difference if I ride my bike up a hill at 5mph or at 20mph. Of course I will. The airflow over me will be different, my perceptions of surroundings going by me will be difference, and the sensations from my body will be dramatically different as I'm physically using a longer stride with more force.

I agree you shouldn't be obsessed with how fast you're going or entirely dependent on your race times and improvement for enjoyment unless your a professional, but shooting to become faster and training to achieve that goal is absolutely worth striving for, and running faster, at least for myself and most I've run into, feels much, much better than running slower. It's not the only thing I get enjoyment out of from running, but there is no doubt for me the faster I'm going and can go the more fun I'm having.

Come on, man. You're not being reasonable here! With my example, going 33 percent faster, we're talking about 77 percent increased air resistance (from almost no air resistance to still almost no air resistance!) - with yours, we're talking about sixteen times the air resistance.

Edit: although I'll admit that it's going to feel noticably differently in cold weather on bare exposed skin on the side of the arms and legs due to air resistance being propertional to velocity for laminar flow and thanks to the wind chill factor.
Mikau
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Netherlands1446 Posts
October 23 2015 21:39 GMT
#472
Thanks both L_Master and 14CC for the responses. Thanks for reminding me that I have to keep an eye on both rest and warm up/stretching as well, I have a habit of undervaluing and under utilising both.

On October 24 2015 05:34 L_Master wrote:
If all you did was run once or twice a week and nothing else you'd probably get better for a few months and then more or less remain at a similar level. 1-2 hours a week is not really much of a stimulus to the body.

However, the bolded part is not really true, particularly depending on what you do and what is paired with it. In other words, since you're cycling 100km a week and doing a little swimming (karate doesn't do much for aerobic performance) you've got plenty of aerobic stimulus to improve. You'll definitely get better. You're running won't improve as fast as it would if you did 50km a week of cycling and 50km a week of running, but there is no question you'll improve with smart training.


I imagined as much, but unfortunately the commute is there to stay for at least another 3 months. I can (and have to) reevaluate after I move house in January, and my commute gets cut to almost 0, but until then I can't run much more (explanation below)
On October 24 2015 05:34 L_Master wrote:
Unless you have a truly insane schedule, in which case I apologize for being a little accusatory, like working 60 hours or more a week and going to school at the same time I'm pretty skeptical of claims like this. I've worked 40 hours a week, while going to school full time with medical volunteering on the side and other activities, and still could fit training 15+ hours a week without insane difficulty. Some people managed to do all of that with a family as well.

You've got two weekend days. Unless there is something unique going on there that literally takes the entire day there is time for a 2-3 miles there. Then it's just a matter of finding another 30 min spot, or waking up 30 minutes earlier one day of the week.


Maybe I should've phrased that better. While I have a busy schedule (uni + working 20-30 hours a week and a girlfriend) I have plenty of time to go exercising. I meant more in terms of the amount of training both myself and my body can handle. At the moment both karate and running are so taxing that I can't do them on the same day, and I ride myself pretty hard on my commute as well. Not only that, for financial reasons I'm hoping to get as close to 7 days a week of biking to work/school in as possible (currently doing anywhere between 1 and 4 depending on weather, but I'm getting winter clothes so that won't be an excuse anymroe going forward), and I don't feel in great running shape after doing the commute multiple days in a row. I'm still working on improving basic fitness so it's hard to tell how much I can handle a few months from now, but right now it feels like running twice a week is a lot. Add to that that I'm secretly hoping to expand the karate to 3 days a week sa well.
On October 24 2015 05:34 L_Master wrote:
Assuming you are opting for 1 day a week of running, I would alternate:

"Even" weeks do a progression run of about 30-45 minutes starting off very easy, say 13:00 mile ish pace, gradually getting faster and faster till you're at a "comfortably hard" pace for the last 15 minutes, and if you want you can blast the last 2 min even harder just don't go so hard there you tie up. Then on "odd" weeks do a session of 8x400m at a hard pace (right now probably around 2:10-2:15 per 400m) with a walk recovery for on straightaway of the track (60s recovery). Finish it off with 4x200m at truly fast clip, less than 40s per 200, with a good long recovery of 2:00 between each. That will give you a decent balance between aerobic strength and speed in the legs.

Thanks, this is really helpful! If I were to run two times a week, I'm guessing I'd be doing both in any given week? Will the aerobic training be enough to prepare me for potentially longer races? I have my mind set on 12km one in March, but I have no idea how attainable that is.
Mikau
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Netherlands1446 Posts
October 23 2015 21:44 GMT
#473
On October 24 2015 06:30 14CC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 05:46 L_Master wrote:
On October 24 2015 03:57 14CC wrote:
There's no reason you shouldn't be able to run a marathon, continuously running one time a week.


I slightly disagree here. The marathon especially is incredibly stressful on the body. That's a massive amount of impact, and in some ways is worse if you're slower as you're out there for 4 or even 5 hours. That's a tremendous amount of physical trauma to the muscles, tendons, and ligaments that one day a week of running simply will not prepare you for.

Do I believe you could get yourself to the finish line from the start line in one piece running once a week? Yea probably so. But the last half and especially last 10km are going to be a death march. I'd be happy to throw down a bet that someone without a running background running one day a week will not be able to finish a marathon without one or more walk breaks.

Well, he did say he's getting back into running so he has some kind of running background! He has about half a year till spring/summer when he's thinking about racing. While muscle mass and aerobic capacity deteriorate rather quickly, his tendons and ligaments will not be too bad off even if it's been a long time since he used to run (as long as he's been walking some in his day to day activities which seems to be the case - and as long as he hasn't had the disfortune of dealing with nasty injuries).
That said, what's wrong with walk breaks?!!!! xD

Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 05:46 L_Master wrote:
On October 24 2015 03:57 14CC wrote:
But then again there's no point concerning yourself with how fast you're running you unless you're a professional athlete. As long as you're having fun running and your body feels good, you're not going to feel any difference whether the clock says you ran a marathon in 3 hours or 4 hours.


Say what? You're going to feel a significant difference because running faster feels...well....faster. It's like saying I'm not going to notice a difference if I ride my bike up a hill at 5mph or at 20mph. Of course I will. The airflow over me will be different, my perceptions of surroundings going by me will be difference, and the sensations from my body will be dramatically different as I'm physically using a longer stride with more force.

I agree you shouldn't be obsessed with how fast you're going or entirely dependent on your race times and improvement for enjoyment unless your a professional, but shooting to become faster and training to achieve that goal is absolutely worth striving for, and running faster, at least for myself and most I've run into, feels much, much better than running slower. It's not the only thing I get enjoyment out of from running, but there is no doubt for me the faster I'm going and can go the more fun I'm having.

Come on, man. You're not being reasonable here! With my example, going 33 percent faster, we're talking about 77 percent increased air resistance (from almost no air resistance to still almost no air resistance!) - with yours, we're talking about sixteen times the air resistance.

Edit: although I'll admit that it's going to feel noticably differently in cold weather on bare exposed skin on the side of the arms and legs due to air resistance being propertional to velocity for laminar flow and thanks to the wind chill factor.

To be fair, 'getting back into running' might be overemphasising how much running I used to do. Back then (2012 I think) I went running roughly 3 times a week (starting from not even being able to jog 2 minute intervals with 1 minute walking breaks in between), to running roughly 10-15 miles a week, with pace being comparable to what I'm doing now.
Bonham
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada655 Posts
October 26 2015 13:47 GMT
#474
A few weeks back my coach sent out a link to this stretch that allegedly helps out with PF. I finally got round to trying it last night, and I must say I'm pretty surprised at how much better my feet feel today. I'm definitely going to incorporate this into my daily stretching routine. Since PF is so common and I know some people in this thread deal with it too, I thought I'd post a link. Check it.
mtmentat
Profile Joined April 2011
United States142 Posts
October 26 2015 20:44 GMT
#475
On October 26 2015 22:47 Bonham wrote:
A few weeks back my coach sent out a link to this stretch that allegedly helps out with PF. I finally got round to trying it last night, and I must say I'm pretty surprised at how much better my feet feel today. I'm definitely going to incorporate this into my daily stretching routine. Since PF is so common and I know some people in this thread deal with it too, I thought I'd post a link. Check it.

Interesting! Definitely will try it out, thanks Bonham!
Bonham
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada655 Posts
October 27 2015 03:52 GMT
#476
On October 27 2015 05:44 mtmentat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2015 22:47 Bonham wrote:
A few weeks back my coach sent out a link to this stretch that allegedly helps out with PF. I finally got round to trying it last night, and I must say I'm pretty surprised at how much better my feet feel today. I'm definitely going to incorporate this into my daily stretching routine. Since PF is so common and I know some people in this thread deal with it too, I thought I'd post a link. Check it.

Interesting! Definitely will try it out, thanks Bonham!


I hope it keeps the evils of PF at bay. Also, thanks for all your kind words r.e. the race report. I haven't responded yet in detail because I'm a bad person, but I swear it's on my to-do list.
mtmentat
Profile Joined April 2011
United States142 Posts
October 27 2015 16:32 GMT
#477
On October 27 2015 12:52 Bonham wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2015 05:44 mtmentat wrote:
On October 26 2015 22:47 Bonham wrote:
A few weeks back my coach sent out a link to this stretch that allegedly helps out with PF. I finally got round to trying it last night, and I must say I'm pretty surprised at how much better my feet feel today. I'm definitely going to incorporate this into my daily stretching routine. Since PF is so common and I know some people in this thread deal with it too, I thought I'd post a link. Check it.

Interesting! Definitely will try it out, thanks Bonham!


I hope it keeps the evils of PF at bay. Also, thanks for all your kind words r.e. the race report. I haven't responded yet in detail because I'm a bad person, but I swear it's on my to-do list.

No worries at all. Idle comments and admiration, by and large. Just let me know if you can find TailWind up your way. Placebo or no, it's made long runs much happier for me this year.
Jetaap
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France4814 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-27 22:01:45
October 27 2015 21:52 GMT
#478
Took advantage of the nice weather for what is probably going to be my last ride of the year before the snow settles in the mountains.
Legs were not working well today (still carried me through the 2000m of climbing but that was slow and painfull ^^) but the view was more than worth it: (picture in spoilers)
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]
VHbb
Profile Joined October 2014
689 Posts
October 27 2015 22:01 GMT
#479
Amazing.... I would love to have such a landscape for my runs, I really love running in the nature instead that among cars in the traffic
Where is that amazing place? The autumn's colors are beautiful.. !
My life for Aiur !
Jetaap
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France4814 Posts
October 27 2015 22:04 GMT
#480
I live in Grenoble, in the alps. I'm still amazed to see that i can take my bike from my home and go to these places in half an hour . This is in the Chartreuse range, which is basically part of the pre-Alps. Not very well known but it's an absolutely gorgeous place especially in this season.
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