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On October 07 2015 06:18 WoolySheep wrote:
Having a legitimate goal like that is absolutely a good thing. I have goals that are similarly lofty (5.5 w/kg FTP on the bike and sub 16' for 5k), but like you I'm nowhere near that ability right now. Having them in the back of my mind is good for motivation, but doing training to "target" either goal right now would be detrimental, as I'm so far away from those goals that I'd struggle to run 400m repeats at "goal" 5k pace.
I'm not even suggesting giving up the idea of getting to 10:30 in a year, but I did want to make it clear that's a major reach goal in that time frame. Basically, I'm trying to make sure you won't be totally heart-broken if you don't quite make that Aug 2016 10:30 goal. On the upside, if you train smart you never know what might be possible!
On October 07 2015 06:18 WoolySheep wrote:
I am a hair under 6 feet, 185 lbs with clothes on. Most of, if not all of my excess is around the middle area, and I definitely want to improve on that. My weakness has always been carbs.
not sure what kind of weight to aim for - 165-170? Are there any particular weight lifting programs I should also be doing?I really don't want to look like some of the more spindly pro runners.
Yea, 6' 185lbs is definitely on the heavier side when it comes to running. It's pretty rare to see a sub 17' 5k guy at a size like that, regardless of whether it's fat or muscle. There are exceptions, but those are usually the guys that used to be 14' guys and then added bulk because they were done with collegiate competition and decided to try some weightlifting for a different look.
Weight is worth quiet a bit. Generally people improve about 1-2s per mile per lb of intelligent fat loss. So if you lose 15lbs you're looking at 1-1.5 min improvement over 5k. If you're smart about your eating, and develop the discipline and eating plan that works to allow sustained weight loss for you, that goal becomes much more realistic. At current weight, I don't think you have any chance at 10:30 in the short term, and not really in the long term either. If your serious about that goal, developing a good nutrition strategy that allows for healthy, sustained weight loss is far more important than any training you do.
I'd say for right now a goal of 170 is a good starting point. It's not an extreme amount, but should get you to the point of developing a good idea of how much more weight you can afford, or want, to lose. There is zero danger of you looking like a spindly pro runner until we start talking weights of like 150 or less. Most people aren't really even capable of getting that thin even if they were trying to. And no, with your goals looking like a spindly pro runner is certainly not an endgame requirement. However, losing most of your current fat and getting down around 7-8% body fat most certainly is.
On October 07 2015 06:18 WoolySheep wrote:
I run about 30 miles a week right now (at about an 8 -8:30 pace - I know it's faster than my easy pace runs should be, but It appears to be my natural speed - is that a thing?) While I was training for (and felt my best) during the half marathon I was up to 50 miles a week. One question: on days where , say, I do interval training, should I still be doing a couple miles of easy pace to up the mileage?
That's a touch brisk for a normal easy run, but not by too much. 8:30-9:00 would probably be true easy for you, but at 30mpw doing days at 8-8:30 pace is not a problem at all.
When it comes to days with workouts, the mileage should happen naturally. In other words, if you are doing say... 5x1km with 2' recovery that's 3 miles worth of repeats, then another mile+ in recovery between reps so around 4 miles for the workout. Throw in the typical 1-2M of warm up and then of cool down and you're looking at between 6-8 miles for that session.
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Dear TL runners, I am seeking advice about my running training program..! I'm sure here there are many people much more experienced than me, so I hope that someone can share his experience 
I'm not completely new to running, I started in 2014 with a half-marathon (time 1:45) and two full marathons (time 4:20 and 3:57), and I kept going on 2015 with an other full marathon (time 3:44:42 :D goal here was sub 3:45 so I was very happy).
I never really had a detailed training program, when I ran the marathons I went with a local running group (I live in Paris) which run on Monday (10km) and Saturday (long runs, increasing the distance to arrive at 34-36km a couple weeks before the marathon) , but I never added a 3rd training session.
My next goal would be a half-marathon in ~December/beginning of January, so I should have some time to prepare, and I would like to follow a training schedule to improve a little bit wrt my past results (I feel that the improvement in the marathon time is mostly due to the experience I got from the previous runs, and a better management of the run during the race.. especially from the 2nd to the 3rd marathon, for which I trained very similarly).
Do you know any good ~12 weeks program for the HM ?
And also, what should be my goal for this upcoming race ? I was thinking, maybe too optimistically, that I could have as 1st goal something around 1:30, and 2nd goal sub 1:40.
I did run (not in a race) 5km in less than 20min, and when I was well trained I could run 10km in ~43min (I am not however at that level now, since I haven't run very much in the past month)
What do you think?
Thank you!!
And if there are some TL runners in Paris, don't hesitate to contact me if you want to go for a run
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I've calculated my 5k target splits for the race. If anyone is up early and wants to track my progress, you can find my bib number here and (I think) track me with it here.
Anyway here they are:
5k 17:40
10k 35:20
15k 53:00
20k 1:10:40
25k 1:28:20
30k 1:46:00
35k 2:03:40
40k 2:21:20
On October 07 2015 11:52 L_Master wrote:
There is zero danger of you looking like a spindly pro runner until we start talking weights of like 150 or less. Most people aren't really even capable of getting that thin even if they were trying to. And no, with your goals looking like a spindly pro runner is certainly not an endgame requirement. However, losing most of your current fat and getting down around 7-8% body fat most certainly is.
Hey, speaking up for Team Spindly (6'2, 145lbs), there's a certain subset of ladies--not a majority, but definitely out there--who like 'em long and lean.
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I'd take a single one of those 5k splits Bonham! Appreciate the ability to track, pumped to see how it goes, you've definitely gotten in another solid training cycle.
On October 08 2015 12:51 Bonham wrote:
Hey, speaking up for Team Spindly (6'2, 145lbs), there's a certain subset of ladies--not a majority, but definitely out there--who like 'em long and lean.
Oh definitely. I've always thought that physique looks pretty damn good, especially if you do even a modicum of weight training so you really have some definition and don't look just skinny. The distance runners that look pure skinny are usually the ones that don't do any gym work at all.
Like come on...someone tell me Lopez Lomong doesn't have a pretty damn good body:
![[image loading]](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6d/b4/1c/6db41c5f9946bf48b6f392bcf0a2274d.jpg)
And he isn't carrying much in the way of muscle either, as he is 5'11" and 145lbs.
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Also, first workout back today. 3x1k with 60" jog recovery.
3:39
3:39
3:34
Kept it short because I haven't run fast in a while and my overall volume is low. First one easy, second one was getting tougher, last one was pretty hard. Nothing to set the world alight, but for 8mpw I'd call it a good starting point.
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after sth like 7 years not running at all i decided to run today.
sth short about me: i used to run quite often as a child till i got 15-16 years old. then i only did sport for fun and basically only did short sprints or slow jogging when doing sport. (mostly basketball,volleyball and badminton)
in those 7 years the only "endurance" sport i did was cycling (around 2000km per year; mostly not longer than 30 minutes)
after around 2km i felt my calves really hard (not sure how to explain it) and i basically had to stop running. they didnt really pain though.
i was running quite fast since im not used to run slowly anymore but i was surprised that i had to stop after 2km.
now my question: did my calfmuscles adept to the sprinting and cycling strain and couldnt handle the switch?
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On October 08 2015 14:44 L_Master wrote:
I'd take a single one of those 5k splits Bonham! Appreciate the ability to track, pumped to see how it goes, you've definitely gotten in another solid training cycle.
Thanks! Never quite know if things will go as hoped until they actually do, but I've definitely put in some solid work for this.
On October 08 2015 14:46 L_Master wrote:
Also, first workout back today. 3x1k with 60" jog recovery.
3:39
3:39
3:34
Kept it short because I haven't run fast in a while and my overall volume is low. First one easy, second one was getting tougher, last one was pretty hard. Nothing to set the world alight, but for 8mpw I'd call it a good starting point.
60 sec recovery is pretty legit for that. This is around 5k pace for you right now, correct? FWIW, my coach usually gives me 1 second of recovery for every 2 of hard running, so 10x(3 mins hard, 1:30 rest) is pretty standard. (Sometimes he's an evil jerk who makes me do 800s off 1min rest though...)
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On October 08 2015 17:42 75 wrote:
after sth like 7 years not running at all i decided to run today.
sth short about me: i used to run quite often as a child till i got 15-16 years old. then i only did sport for fun and basically only did short sprints or slow jogging when doing sport. (mostly basketball,volleyball and badminton)
in those 7 years the only "endurance" sport i did was cycling (around 2000km per year; mostly not longer than 30 minutes)
after around 2km i felt my calves really hard (not sure how to explain it) and i basically had to stop running. they didnt really pain though.
i was running quite fast since im not used to run slowly anymore but i was surprised that i had to stop after 2km.
now my question: did my calfmuscles adept to the sprinting and cycling strain and couldnt handle the switch?
This is my usual struggle when I am building mileage. If you feeling is like mine it's almost like your calves get tighter and more strained as the run goes on, and they can be a little sore walking around afterword.
Everyone is different, but what works for me is:
1) Wait for there to be no more soreness walking/running
2) Add in the calf wall stretch + Show Spoiler + and achilles wall stretch + Show Spoiler + holding each one for 45 seconds. Do 2-3 times a day.
3) After a couple days of the stretching, resume running but make sure to give an aggressive massage to the calf/Achilles after each run'
This regimen is my go to for problems with calves. Hopefully it can work for you as well.
On October 08 2015 21:48 Bonham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2015 14:46 L_Master wrote:
Also, first workout back today. 3x1k with 60" jog recovery.
3:39
3:39
3:34
Kept it short because I haven't run fast in a while and my overall volume is low. First one easy, second one was getting tougher, last one was pretty hard. Nothing to set the world alight, but for 8mpw I'd call it a good starting point. 60 sec recovery is pretty legit for that. This is around 5k pace for you right now, correct? FWIW, my coach usually gives me 1 second of recovery for every 2 of hard running, so 10x(3 mins hard, 1:30 rest) is pretty standard. (Sometimes he's an evil jerk who makes me do 800s off 1min rest though...)
Hard to say, it's been such a while I almost forget what 5k feels like. Definitely at least 3k pace though, and if it's 5k pace I'd be super excited, opening up with something low 18s would be a pretty darn good start to the cycle as that would be just 20-30s away from my PR.
I'm actually working with a coach now myself, primarily for my cycling as there is a ton to learn about the actual art of racing bikes themselves, and also because training for cycling is so different. You need all skills. You need to be able to go for 5 hours, sprint at the end, respond with good 5' power, or be able to hold strong power for 60'. It's a bit like having to be in shape for 100m, 400m a surgy 1500m race, a HM, and an ultra all at once, but in the right flavors for each event.
The upside is that my coach was a 3:45 1500m runner, and has experience coaching several quality triathletes, so I trust him to help me balance the running with the cycling, more or less maximizing the running without totally losing touch with the cycling.
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On October 08 2015 12:51 Bonham wrote:I've calculated my 5k target splits for the race. If anyone is up early and wants to track my progress, you can find my bib number here and (I think) track me with it here. Anyway here they are: 5k 17:40 10k 35:20 15k 53:00 20k 1:10:40 25k 1:28:20 30k 1:46:00 35k 2:03:40 40k 2:21:20 + Show Spoiler +On October 07 2015 11:52 L_Master wrote:
There is zero danger of you looking like a spindly pro runner until we start talking weights of like 150 or less. Most people aren't really even capable of getting that thin even if they were trying to. And no, with your goals looking like a spindly pro runner is certainly not an endgame requirement. However, losing most of your current fat and getting down around 7-8% body fat most certainly is.
Hey, speaking up for Team Spindly (6'2, 145lbs), there's a certain subset of ladies--not a majority, but definitely out there--who like 'em long and lean.
Oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man! Live tracking! I'll definitely tune in, and wish you all the luck and none of the 'lactic while you're out there!
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On October 09 2015 01:25 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2015 17:42 75 wrote:
after sth like 7 years not running at all i decided to run today.
sth short about me: i used to run quite often as a child till i got 15-16 years old. then i only did sport for fun and basically only did short sprints or slow jogging when doing sport. (mostly basketball,volleyball and badminton)
in those 7 years the only "endurance" sport i did was cycling (around 2000km per year; mostly not longer than 30 minutes)
after around 2km i felt my calves really hard (not sure how to explain it) and i basically had to stop running. they didnt really pain though.
i was running quite fast since im not used to run slowly anymore but i was surprised that i had to stop after 2km.
now my question: did my calfmuscles adept to the sprinting and cycling strain and couldnt handle the switch? This is my usual struggle when I am building mileage. If you feeling is like mine it's almost like your calves get tighter and more strained as the run goes on, and they can be a little sore walking around afterword. Everyone is different, but what works for me is: 1) Wait for there to be no more soreness walking/running 2) Add in the calf wall stretch + Show Spoiler + and achilles wall stretch + Show Spoiler + holding each one for 45 seconds. Do 2-3 times a day. 3) After a couple days of the stretching, resume running but make sure to give an aggressive massage to the calf/Achilles after each run' This regimen is my go to for problems with calves. Hopefully it can work for you as well.
thanks for the advice.
i have spoken with a friend who does triathlons and he also meant that my calves have to get stretched and showed me the two stretching methods.
he also said i did the mistake to cycle up a hill before i started running. the low frequency and high load right before running accelerate that the calf muscles get sore (apparently some athletes shift the gear before they start running in a triathlon so they increase their pedal frequency)
well, today i learned why runners stretch their legs so much before they start running.
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On October 09 2015 03:00 mtmentat wrote:
Oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man! Live tracking! I'll definitely tune in, and wish you all the luck and none of the 'lactic while you're out there!
Thanks boss! The support of my fellow TL nerds means a lot to me.
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I've just started getting back into running (actually did my first 10 km training run in 3 years the other day, while being 10kg heavier than the last time I did one). I want to keep working at my running to be able to potentially do 5k/10k/half marathon 'races' next spring/summer. I read online that if you don't run at least 3 times per week you won't really see any long term improvement. I however also bike (about 25km x2 as a commute) 5-7 days a week, practice karate (1-3 times per week) and am trying to teach myself how to swim. So at the moment I can't really run 3 times a week without sacrificing a lot of my other activities, which are important to me for various reasons.
How true is the 3x per week thing to see improvement? With all the sporting I'll be doing this winter my general fitness will improve ofcourse and that should benefit my running I guess, but that would be true even if I didn't run. So, how much of a point is there to running if I can't do 3x per week? And assuming I'm sticking to 1 day a week, what would be the best way to improve (speed being more important to me than mileage at this point)?
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I've been lazy about uploading to Strava but my marathon cycle has gone fairly well again this year, I am definitely feeling good about running sub 4 finally. My race is two weeks from tomorrow (Marine Corps for the 3rd year in a row) ran a 22 miler last week, averaged 9/mile which is right on pace for sub 4 and I felt fine after. I think no matter what on race day I will run the first 20 at 9/mile, or as close to 9/mile as I can due to crowds etc. and then pick it up a bit gradually over the last 10k.
usually the first 5-6 miles are very hard to pace in a race this big because of crowd size, its kind of annoying how they don't do a wave start for a 30,000 person event. Probably my only complaint about this marathon, you get all kinds of slow people lining up way too far forward and it creates a mess of a first few miles.
After this I'm going to be spending the winter focusing for shorter stuff next spring, I know I'm capable of running faster 5K/10K's with proper speedwork.
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On October 09 2015 13:13 Bonham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2015 03:00 mtmentat wrote:
Oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man! Live tracking! I'll definitely tune in, and wish you all the luck and none of the 'lactic while you're out there!
Thanks boss! The support of my fellow TL nerds means a lot to me.
LETTTSSSSSSS GOOOOOOOOO BONHAM!!!!!
12 hours till marathon speedrun success!
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On October 09 2015 13:13 Bonham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2015 03:00 mtmentat wrote:
Oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man! Live tracking! I'll definitely tune in, and wish you all the luck and none of the 'lactic while you're out there!
Thanks boss! The support of my fellow TL nerds means a lot to me.
Good Luck!!!! :D
Two questions for you guys:
a) I see all of you use Strava: do I have to use a gps/tracking device while running to update my results, or can I just use it to log my training by hand? I don't have any fancy watch and I don't like to run with my phone so I usually just take my time with a simple watch e and make sure I know how many km I'm running
b) finally back to running! Yesterday I went for a long run (it probably would have been better to restart slower / shorter distance, but I went with this group that trains here.. that's the best way to find the motivation to go for me, at least the first times  ): 21.something km in 1h52min... I wasn't feeling super good in the second half of the run, but I'm happy I did it to the end (without feeling *too* bad)
Have a nice Sunday!
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Well, Bonham cruised through halfway right on pace, looks like he started a smidge slow and eased into it; usually a good approach. The only downside, if the tracker is to be believed, is that he has absolutely no competition. There is a nice pack of like 5 guys, but they are 8' back at halfway.
Still, if it's his day he is in perfect shape. Unless there is elevation change I don't know about his execution looks great. Fingers crossed he caught a good day!
Results should be further along I think...but it appears that for everyone there isn't much beyond halfway.
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Next split is in. Little slower at 3:37/k (2:32 pace) but still just inside schedule. Into the critical 10k now, hopefully that was a conscious decision to ease off over the last 10k, and it may well have been given he just ran that 3:30 split.
If not, I'm worried. 6 s/km is a lot to lose over 10k, especially with the critical last 10-11km coming up.
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Next split just in, 3:35. That's good news, as it means he isn't dying early and probably backed off by choice.
Still, 2:30 is going to be tough, as he is on 2:30:40 pace right now. Should be a pretty damn good race either way, but come on Bonham, rally over those last 7km!!!!!!!!!
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How do you get the live tracking?
Go Bonham!
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Dang. Last 7km really caught up to him. Slowed down to 3:55/km pace. Still good enough for 2:33:15
Not quite as fast as he could have gone, but still a pretty damn good race! A huge 6 minute PR from less than a year ago, and well inside the B goal. I know you would have loved to have those 3 extra minutes back Bonham, but seriously nice race man!
Oh and did I mention, he WON THE MARATHON! That's pretty cool in it's own right.
MTA: jetaap, it's here: https://www.sportstats.ca/display-results.xhtml?raceid=27910&status=results
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DbsGDgq.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EKiCGPY.png)
