EPTI really can't understand the hate. Barca vs Juventus sounds just as interesting to watch as Barca Vs Real and to be honest we’ve already seen that match up enough this season. Not sure where the hate comes from.
Champions League & Europa League 2014-15 Thread - Page 217
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
I really can't understand the hate. Barca vs Juventus sounds just as interesting to watch as Barca Vs Real and to be honest we’ve already seen that match up enough this season. Not sure where the hate comes from. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On May 15 2015 17:56 Greg_J wrote: I read some of this thread the other day having not watched the game and was amazed at the how aggressive and anti Juventus most of the comments where. Today I got the time to watch the game and was expecting some serious dirty, aggressive, defensive football from Juventus based on what I had read. To my surprise they played pretty sensibly looked like the better team for a lot of the game and only really got defensive in the final 15 minutes or so which is not only understandable but they also had 3 really good chances to put the game away on the counter attack. So it looked tactically sound to me too. I really can't understand the hate. Barca vs Juventus sounds just as interesting to watch as Barca Vs Real and to be honest we’ve already seen that match up enough this season. Not sure where the hate comes from. Yeah, juventus plays proper football. Not like some other teams. The final will be a good game unless barca scores early. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On May 15 2015 17:54 Mafe wrote: Even if both italian teams have been eliminated now, Italy is in a good position to challenge germany and england for the 4th champions league spot 2 years from now. Over the last 3 years, these 3 leagues are basically equal on points for the relevant UEFA ranking. Gonna be interesting. Would take something catastrophic for England to lose its 4th place spot by 2018 i think it was at the earliest. Would need us to fail in group stages of champions league out of the 4 teams for 3 seasons in a row pretty much. However Italy only have Juve though lol? Even if they go to semi finals for next 3 seasons in a row which other Italian team will join them lol? | ||
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haitike
Spain2737 Posts
I think Barcelona has a superior team, but in a final everything is possible. I never expected that Di Mateo Chealsea team with old Drogba to win Bayern. | ||
Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
On May 15 2015 18:10 Pandemona wrote: They sat back and defended for 80 minutes of the game in Madrid and countered? Don't see nothing special about that, Real should have scored numerous chances and went through or at least pushed to extra time. Juventus rode their luck and went through, nothing special in anything they did in Madrid? Would take something catastrophic for England to lose its 4th place spot by 2018 i think it was at the earliest. Would need us to fail in group stages of champions league out of the 4 teams for 3 seasons in a row pretty much. However Italy only have Juve though lol? Even if they go to semi finals for next 3 seasons in a row which other Italian team will join them lol? Winning in Europa League gives almost as many points as it does in Champions League so PL teams with their 40member squads that 'don't care' about EL actually make sure that the PL as a whole drop many points. | ||
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
On May 15 2015 19:01 Twisted wrote: Winning in Europa League gives almost as many points as it does in Champions League so PL teams with their 40member squads that 'don't care' about EL actually make sure that the PL as a whole drop many points. If by almost as many you mean excatly half. You are quite correct. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On May 15 2015 19:01 Twisted wrote: Winning in Europa League gives almost as many points as it does in Champions League so PL teams with their 40member squads that 'don't care' about EL actually make sure that the PL as a whole drop many points. This "we dont want to go far in europa so we lose on purpose" is plain retarded reasoning. And now with the recent change having the europa winner go to CL, it loses whatever fragments of credibility it had. | ||
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
edit: as pointed out only one Italian club made this stage. So if I'm reading this right if Juventus win the Champions League they will earn 2 points from final, 2 points from semi final, 2 points from the Ro8 and an extra point for winning Ro16. That's 7 points they win after the Ro16 after all the English clubs have been knocked out. The fact 2 more English clubs got to the Ro16 means England won 10 more points than Italy at that stage and Juventus even winning the whole thing will score a maximum of anouther 7. Maybe it's not as simple as that but it looks like England will get more points even if Juventus win the Champions League this year. (I'm not 100% sure that's right and appreciate any input) I haven't factored in any points Italian or English clubs won in the Europa League. | ||
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sneirac
Germany3464 Posts
On May 15 2015 19:13 Greg_J wrote: If by almost as many you mean excatly half. You are quite correct. A win / tie gives exactly the same points in EL and CL (2pt win, 1pt tie), points are only halved for both qualifications. As you said in your second post, the difference are the bonus points for reaching the group stage and the round of 16. It also means that per year Italy will have to get 4 points more (one less direct group spot) just to not lose ground. On May 15 2015 19:21 Greg_J wrote: Reading about the how the coefficient’s work there's a huge 5 point bonus for making the round of 16 and as badly as the English clubs did 3 out of 4 of them did at least get that bonus. That makes a big difference. edit: as pointed out only one Italian club made this stage. So if I'm reading this right if Juventus win the Champions League they will earn 2 points from final, 2 points from semi final, 2 points from the Ro8 and an extra point for winning Ro16. That's 7 points they win after the Ro16 after all the English clubs have been knocked out. The fact 2 more English clubs got to the Ro16 means England won 10 more points than Italy at that stage and Juventus even winning the whole thing will score a maximum of anouther 7. Maybe it's not as simple as that but it looks like England will get more points even if Juventus win the Champions League this year. (I'm not 100% sure that's right and appreciate any input) I haven't factored in any points Italian or English clubs won in the Europa League. No, the two/one points are applied for game wins. So for the semifinal Juve won the 1st leg tied the 2nd, that is three points and a bonus point for reaching the final. | ||
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
And yes you're right the halfing is only the quallfying games I misread that. So Europa can make a big difference if a club does find itself there. But avoiding it entirelly gets you thoose 5 bonus points for making Champions League Ro16 and that makes a big difference. edit: Never mind that edit. you already answered that question. | ||
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sneirac
Germany3464 Posts
On May 15 2015 19:41 Greg_J wrote: Oh I see. They treat each leg as a game not the tie as a whole? And yes you're right the halfing is only the quallfying games I misread that. So Europa can make a big difference if a club does find itself there. But avoiding it entirelly gets you thoose 5 bonus points for making Champions League Ro16 and that makes a big difference. Yeah, the win/tie points are only for the games, and one bonus points for each won tie except EL ro32. And yeah the 5 bonus points for the ro16 plus the 4 for group stage are the difference maker. Also it's funny that actually winning the CL does not get you a bonus point, and with penalty decisions counting as an official tie, winner and loser of the final can both get one point | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On May 15 2015 19:13 Steveling wrote: This "we dont want to go far in europa so we lose on purpose" is plain retarded reasoning. And now with the recent change having the europa winner go to CL, it loses whatever fragments of credibility it had. Its not retarded its called business. You earn more money finishing in "x" place in the premier league than u do from winning the Europa crap. HOWEVER this is being addressed by UEFA and the prize pool of next seasons competition is going up. Along with champions league One of the Premier League contenders stand to bank at least a whopping £70million if they win next season’s Champions League where as the Europa League winners will still ‘only’ earn around £11m. You get a nice £55million guaranteed in the premier league and then addons on depending on placement 20th = £1.2million extra and 1st £24million extra. So the reason teams play their second string 11 when they go away to Ukraine (6 hour flight from England) to then have to play 3 days later in the league game it effects them to much and managers prioritize the league. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Chelsea have gained 20 points, Arsenal 19.5, Man City 15, Everton 12, Liverpool 10, Tottenham 11 and Hull 2.5, meaning up to now England have scored 90 points. Dividing that by seven gets you 12.857, England’s current coefficient score for the season England’s score of 12.857 is currently fourth-best; Spain have 14.642, Germany 13.857 and Italy 13.833. France trail England in fifth with 10.250. England are currently second in the overall coefficient ranking – the one that counts - with 79.677 points over the past five seasons. That's 18.357 (2010/11) + 15.250 (2011/12) + 16.428 (2012/13) + 16.785 (2013/14) + this year's 12.857. Spain are top with 94.427, while Germany are just behind England with 77.415. It will take Italy to dominate the Europa (get top 4) and Champions league (Again get top 4 places) for England or even Germany to lose that 4th spot without any of the English/German clubs getting to Semi final Quarter finals etc. | ||
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sneirac
Germany3464 Posts
On May 15 2015 20:14 Pandemona wrote: England points this season; Chelsea have gained 20 points, Arsenal 19.5, Man City 15, Everton 12, Liverpool 10, Tottenham 11 and Hull 2.5, meaning up to now England have scored 90 points. Dividing that by seven gets you 12.857, England’s current coefficient score for the season England’s score of 12.857 is currently fourth-best; Spain have 14.642, Germany 13.857 and Italy 13.833. France trail England in fifth with 10.250. England are currently second in the overall coefficient ranking – the one that counts - with 79.677 points over the past five seasons. That's 18.357 (2010/11) + 15.250 (2011/12) + 16.428 (2012/13) + 16.785 (2013/14) + this year's 12.857. Spain are top with 94.427, while Germany are just behind England with 77.415. It will take Italy to dominate the Europa (get top 4) and Champions league (Again get top 4 places) for England or even Germany to lose that 4th spot without any of the English/German clubs getting to Semi final Quarter finals etc. Your numbers are off, don't know why exactly. Here is a great site that tracks these numbers: kassiesa | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On May 15 2015 20:09 Pandemona wrote: Its not retarded its called business. You earn more money finishing in "x" place in the premier league than u do from winning the Europa crap. HOWEVER this is being addressed by UEFA and the prize pool of next seasons competition is going up. Along with champions league One of the Premier League contenders stand to bank at least a whopping £70million if they win next season’s Champions League where as the Europa League winners will still ‘only’ earn around £11m. You get a nice £55million guaranteed in the premier league and then addons on depending on placement 20th = £1.2million extra and 1st £24million extra. So the reason teams play their second string 11 when they go away to Ukraine (6 hour flight from England) to then have to play 3 days later in the league game it effects them to much and managers prioritize the league. That's garbage mate, flimsy excuses for some english teams that can not cut it in international level. Fulham and borough fans still talk about their europa cup final runs like it's the brightest page in their history. Your teams try their earnest, fielding their best, trying to gain european glory, failing, year after year. So it's quite understandable that some of you have taken mental gymnastics to an olympic level. But as I said, these idiotic excuses now will eclipse, since the winner gets to play in CL. | ||
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
Having said that, Pandemona is not wrong about how English teams view the EL. You should read some of the stuff Liverpool fans and even Spurs fans say about the competition. Man Utd threw the competition a couple years ago and City... well they suck in Europe. It is quite funny that the one team that really made it their goal to win the competition was Chelsea and they ended up winning it, so there is definitely some truth in the fact that English teams aren't bothered. I don't think the subtop England teams are anywhere near as good as the subtop Spanish teams though. Sevilla used mostly a B team in the group stages and managed to sneak through in second place, which is something I don't think the English teams could really accomplish. But I don't think the England teams differ much from the German and Italian ones. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Chelsea took it seriously and won it, no other team has took it seriously. Fulham go to the finals of it and got beat and now are a bottom tier championship team of course they are going to talk about there only venture in Europe. Same with Middlesborough there only European adventure  But you forget how football is still considered a business Steve, English club chairman's and owners all want profit or money into their club in which, a jump from x position to y position in the premier league is too great to comprehend financially. Playing a europa league quarter final in Russia/Ukraine/Romania is just too much for a mid table squad like Everton to compete. Yes you can argue a squad like Liverpool should be able to cope but they dont try as hard as they would. Im not defending that English teams would walk the competition if they tried that is clearly evident they would not, but im sure if the English teams could have a gap of 3 days and not 2 they would take the competition better. They should squeeze Europa to be played the same day imo as the Champions league but i guess TV deals would get shot then, that is a good solution. Who knows maybe the tiny prize pool increase might make England go for it more. | ||
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sneirac
Germany3464 Posts
On May 15 2015 21:34 Pandemona wrote: Im not defending that English teams would walk the competition if they tried that is clearly evident they would not, but im sure if the English teams could have a gap of 3 days and not 2 they would take the competition better. They should squeeze Europa to be played the same day imo as the Champions league but i guess TV deals would get shot then, that is a good solution. Who knows maybe the tiny prize pool increase might make England go for it more. Huh? Doesn't the PL have sunday games? Bundesliga has the EL teams play sunday and if necessary moves a third game so they have three days rest. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On May 15 2015 21:16 Ysellian wrote: Man Utd threw the competition a couple years ago and City... well they suck in Europe. It is quite funny that the one team that really made it their goal to win the competition was Chelsea and they ended up winning it, so there is definitely some truth in the fact that English teams aren't bothered. How can you arrive at the conclusion you did after the facts you showed us. Chelsea was the only team that won cause they are the only decent english team atm. man.c are chokers and man.u, well we all know why they suck now. | ||
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
On May 15 2015 21:40 Steveling wrote: How can you arrive at the conclusion you did after the facts you showed us. Chelsea was the only team that won cause they are the only decent english team atm. man.c are chokers and man.u, well we all know why they suck now. Not then they weren't, Chelsea were third in the league 14 points off from United, that chelsea was likely the worst Chelsea in the last decade. Spurs is a great example too, when they managed to qualify for the champions league they gave everyone a run for their money and yet in the Europa league they are getting dismantled left and right. | ||
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