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NBA Offseason 2014 - Page 114

Forum Index > Sports
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Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
October 25 2014 12:28 GMT
#2261
On October 25 2014 19:26 FakePseudo wrote:
So only three weeks into my (first) league pass, reg season not yet started, and I can already catch up with y'all: the rockets announcers are the worst homers. It's so funny, it kinda felt good experiencing it first hand for the first time.


Stacey King in Chicago says hello
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
October 25 2014 14:14 GMT
#2262
is rubio learning to shoot?
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
AgentW
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States7725 Posts
October 25 2014 15:06 GMT
#2263
Decent shooter, terrible finisher.
Who's the bigger scrub, the scrub, or the scrub who loses to him?
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
October 25 2014 15:40 GMT
#2264
On October 25 2014 21:28 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2014 19:26 FakePseudo wrote:
So only three weeks into my (first) league pass, reg season not yet started, and I can already catch up with y'all: the rockets announcers are the worst homers. It's so funny, it kinda felt good experiencing it first hand for the first time.


Stacey King in Chicago says hello


Tommy Heinsohn.

Also, I don't actually like Mike Smith and Ralph Lawler. Then again, I also think Vin Scully needs to retire 10 years ago.
"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
October 25 2014 16:47 GMT
#2265
I just can't take Smith seriously no matter how hard I try lol.

Hoping to catch the grantland NBA show rerun in a bit, since it was played so early in the West coast.

And, pretty interesting to see it laid out:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11754307/stephen-curry-headlines-list-top-10-floor-spacers-nba
+ Show Spoiler +
If you've spent any time courtside in the middle of an NBA game, you've probably heard it before.

"Shooter!"

Coaches, players and even fans will shout it at the top of their lungs when an opposing team's sharpshooter breaks free off the ball. Find him, put a body on him. Now.

You have to respect the shooter. But have you ever wondered which players get the most respect?

Good news: We can now track it scientifically. Stats LLC has privately crunched the data from SportVU player-tracking cameras in all 29 arenas last season and generated two advanced metrics to assess a player's gravitational pull on a defense.

The first, called "gravity score," quantifies how closely a player's defender sticks to him off the ball. Generally speaking, bigs have higher gravity scores because their primary defender must also protect the basket and muscle for post position. They rarely let the big get too far away. On the other hand, guards typically have lower gravity scores simply because defenders have more liberty to shade off their guy on the perimeter.

The second metric, called "distraction score," quantifies how much a player's defender is willing to help off the ball to stop the ball handler. The worse he is as a shooter, the more likely his defender will be distracted by the ball handler. To shed light on who are the most effective floor-spacers in the NBA, I created a composite score that combines the two metrics. The result is what I've called "respect rating." For reference, the average point guard checked in with a 62.0 rating and centers registered an average 57.8 rating.

As I outlined Wednesday, the most "respected" players aren't necessarily elite shooters. Last season, Dwyane Wade ranked 21st among all players, thanks in part to his elite cutting ability off the ball. On Thursday, Kevin Pelton identified the gravitational outliers, players who surprised us with their respect rating.

Now it's time to reveal the top 10 in respect rating. To be clear, the list below isn't necessarily cataloguing the best shooters in the NBA, nor should it be treated that way. Rather, this list captures which players pulled the defense toward them the most off the ball. What's fascinating is that this metric ignores the box score completely and relies solely on optical tracking. This is the NBA in 2014.

So, which players generated the most respect off the ball? Let's take a look at the NBA's pre-eminent floor-spacers.


Curry
1. Stephen Curry | G | Golden State Warriors
Respect rating: 66.4


A magnet as strong as the Golden Gate Bridge itself. Last season, Curry led the NBA in 3-point field goals for the second consecutive season even though defenses were constantly trying to push him off the arc. Even though Curry mans the point guard position, about half of his 3-pointers were assisted by others last season (119 of 261), and he shot a blistering 48.2 percent on catch-and-shoot 3s, according to SportVU tracking data. With parking-lot range, an instantaneous release and pinpoint accuracy, no one distorts a defense quite like Curry.


Korver
2. Kyle Korver | F | Atlanta Hawks
Respect rating: 65.8

Korver's defender has one job and one job only: Don't let him touch the ball. The problem is, chasing Korver around a barrage of pindowns and flare screens is like sprinting through a minefield. Despite all the attention off the ball, Korver led the league in 3-point percentage last season (47.2 percent) and made over half his catch-and-shoot 3s, which is like playing with a cheat code. There's a reason the Hawks scored 105.4 points per 100 possessions (Golden State level) with Korver on the floor compared with 100.3 points per 100 possessions (Milwaukee level) with him sidelined.


Martin
3. Kevin Martin | G | Minnesota Timberwolves
Respect rating: 65.2

Surprised? Don't be. Martin's a knockdown shooter, but it's important to note Ricky Rubio's role here. Defenses almost never helped off of shooters when Rubio drove to the rim because the Spaniard was such an abysmal finisher in the paint. Thus, Martin's guy was constantly on him like white on rice. Martin shot 38.7 percent from deep last season, but he was a double threat off the ball because he's also an expert cutter to the rim. Let's see how he does without Kevin Love's gravitational pull.


Durant
4. Kevin Durant | F | Oklahoma City Thunder
Respect rating: 64.9

If Durant has any weakness on the offensive side of the floor, it's freeing himself off the ball. Defenders always have made it a point to be up in his jersey when guarding him off the ball, and his respect rating reflects that aggressive defensive scheme. According to SportVU, Durant is one of the rare players who shot better on pull-up 3s (41.1 percent) as opposed to the catch-and-shoot variety (38.2 percent), so letting him get comfortable off the dribble is a fatal mistake. It'll be interesting to see whether lingering effects from his foot injury will affect his ability to create separation.


Harden
5. James Harden | G | Houston Rockets
Respect rating: 64.8

Like Curry, Harden does the bulk of the playmaking for his team, so it makes sense that defenses did everything they could to keep the ball out of his hands. What's interesting is that his teammate Patrick Beverley had the 10th-worst respect rating among point guards, indicating that perimeter defenders fixated most of their attention on stopping "The Beard." Although Harden wasn't quite the sharpshooter from 3 the others on this list (36.6 percent) were, few can tilt the defense like Harden.


Allen
6. Ray Allen | G | free agent
Respect rating: 64.7

Allen should receive a lifetime achievement award for respect rating. For almost two decades, Allen has generated incessant "Shooter!" warnings from opposing coaches alerting the defense to find him off the ball. Evidently, the man they call "Jesus" still has it at age 39. SportVU data tells us he shot 39.9 percent on catch-and-shoot 3s last season in Miami, but he rated a bit below average coming off screens, according to Synergy Sports tracking. Maybe he has lost a step, but teams are still preoccupied with Allen off the ball. Some team would be wise to add his gravitational pull to its system.


Ginobili
7. Manu Ginobili | G | San Antonio Spurs
Respect rating: 64.5

The Spurs are the epitome of a "pick-your-poison" team, but no Spur generated more attention off the ball last season than Ginobili. What's interesting here is that Ginobili was a slightly below-average shooter from deep last season, shooting "just" 34.9 percent from beyond the arc. The key is to close out hard on Ginobili when he gets the ball on the perimeter; Ginobili shot 38.5 percent on catch-and-shoot 3s and just 29 percent when he pulled up for a trifecta, according to SportVU. Ginobili paints masterpieces once he gets the ball, so it makes sense that teams were terrified of letting him get a hold of it even at age 37.


Thompson
8. Klay Thompson | F | Golden State Warriors
Respect rating: 64.4

Yes, the Warriors have two of the top 10 most magnetic players in the game. And from the looks of it, they could have two of the top five soon enough. Thompson has been absolutely lighting it up from 3 this preseason (caveat: It's preseason), converting 56.2 percent from deep. But if new coach Steve Kerr continues to trot out Harrison Barnes 27 minutes a game, defenses will have one less reason to help off of Thompson on the perimeter. With Team USA boosting Thompson's rep, don't expect Thompson to be this far down the list much longer.


Meeks
9. Jodie Meeks | G | Detroit Pistons
Respect rating: 64.3

You're not the only one who did a double take here. However, context is especially important in this case. The Lakers weren't exactly stacked with players who could draw a double-team last season, so locking down Meeks, who shot 40.1 percent from 3-point land, became a higher priority for opposing defenses. It's a shame that Meeks suffered a stress reaction in his back that will knock him out for about two months, because the 27-year-old's gravity could have really decongested Detroit's offense right away. Armed with this SportVU insight, it makes more sense why Stan Van Gundy inked Meeks to a three-year, $19 million deal.


Lillard
10. Damian Lillard | G | Portland Trail Blazers
Respect rating: 64.2

Never let Lillard out of sight, even if he doesn't have the ball. Lillard's range is just absurd. Only Steph Curry made more 3s from 25 feet and beyond last season, according to Basketball-Reference.com data. And, unlike Curry, more than half of Lillard's heaves were assisted by others. All told, Lillard shot a ridiculous 42.5 percent on catch-and-shoot 3s last season, per SportVU tracking, which was far better than his pull-up rate. No, he wasn't off the ball very often, but you'll pay the price if you let him get loose. Right, Houston?

"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-25 16:58:06
October 25 2014 16:57 GMT
#2266
Why couldn't we just sign Stephenson...I would be much more excited for this season T_T.

At this point, the most important thing this season is getting minutes for Randle...

Lin and Ed Davis might be fun to watch...actually getting Lin minutes might be more important(our best asset). Then see if we can flip him for something towards the deadline lol.

edit: /end Laker rant (sorry)
"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
Xeris
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Iran17695 Posts
October 25 2014 17:19 GMT
#2267
I like Ed Davis, he's got a lot going for him. Good touch around the rim, solid awareness on defense, and he's developing a really nice chemistry with Jeremy Lin. If LA actually had a good roster, Lin + Ed Davis + Nick Young would be an incredible 2nd unit.

I haven't been too impressed with Randle so far (only watched 2 games and some clips of others). It looks like he doesn't give too much effort on defense, he doesn't get into a low stance, he gets lost a lot, he has pretty poor body language unless he's got the ball. He also looks like he gets tired really quickly. Anyone else notice this? I was watching the stream of their full length practice and he just wasn't running as hard (he was getting beat by Kobe in most drills). This could be a problem, and by that I mean his attitude.

When he's got the ball he's clearly locked in and he has good moves and a decent shot, but when he doesn't directly have the ball he seems to be out of the picture for the most part. Also, he's really out of control with his body, i.e. the play where he elbowed Rudy Gay in the face on a break... only happened because he didn't have good body control. He has potential but he'll be a huge project
twitter.com/xerislight -- follow me~~
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-25 17:59:23
October 25 2014 17:58 GMT
#2268
Ya that would be a great 2nd unit actually. I really like Lin too, it's just his last contract-season so I hope to maximize what we get.

And I haven't seen too much of the preseason, but I have been impressed with Randle's head on his shoulders for being just 19 years old in interviews, etc. He acts older than his age, but I haven't seen the attitude thing in-game(or in-practice). Hopefully it is just him being disappointed with himself and not knowing how else to show it (he will hopefully get over it). I do like how he works hard when finishing those close preseason games. He just likes to win it seems (kind of like Blake Griffin when he came to the Clips).

But I do agree he is more of a project at this point (like most young, big players though). Partly, why I would have been happier with Marcus Smart in the draft. Randle is a long-term play with more question marks. It's why I hope they make sure he gets minutes once this thing starts to go south though lol.
"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
October 25 2014 18:39 GMT
#2269
im not seeing the attitude thing with randle. he does get tired fast, but its likely that he has to get used to nba conditioning, hes not actually that athletic nor is he as physically gifted as other PFs.

he is bad on defense though, and has basically the same tools as blake griffin to do it
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
parkufarku
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
882 Posts
October 25 2014 19:32 GMT
#2270
I don't understand why Scott is hestitating so much on Lin / Price as starter. It's no brainer Lin should start. That's like saying let's make a 3rd string backup PG on Clippers start over CP3 (exaggerated examples).

Lin has better defense than Price, more athletic, and we don't even need to talk about offense. Price has averaged 2 PPG and barely made the team last year.

Does NBA hate Asians this much? Lin is clearly at Lowry / Dragic level (will surpass them this year, he's better than those PGs honestly) but he's always sent to backup for "defense" (Lin's D > Price's D). This was like this in Houston too. Lin was clearly better player than Bev, and Bev's defense wasn't even that much better than Lin's, but Lin got sent to bench anyway.

For any Black or White point guards who are terrible, just come to the team that Lin is on. You will get to start by default because Lin is Asian.
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
October 25 2014 19:37 GMT
#2271
While that may be a slight factor, you're grossly overstating it. The Houston situation, for example, isn't as cut and dry as you make it out to be. Also, he wouldn't have gotten that contract if he wasn't Asian, so...
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
October 25 2014 19:40 GMT
#2272
Lin is nowhere near Dragic/Lowry level...
parkufarku
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
882 Posts
October 25 2014 19:49 GMT
#2273
On October 26 2014 04:37 Jerubaal wrote:
While that may be a slight factor, you're grossly overstating it. The Houston situation, for example, isn't as cut and dry as you make it out to be. Also, he wouldn't have gotten that contract if he wasn't Asian, so...


I followed Lin all throughout the Rockets. I know what it's not that simple as that. There's coach Mchale, who initially cut Lin before Linsanity happened, who wanted to prove that his earlier decision was not wrong, and was out to prove Linsanity was a fluke / Lin is a bad player that warranted the cut. That's why he was so keen on destroying Lin's confidence by trashing him openly in public interviews (what kind of coach does that?) and benching him when he was doing hot, benching him when he made the slightest errors, etc.

He also got moved to the bench because they wanted Beverly to makeup for Harden's bad defense (but really, Lin's defense is not that much worse than Bev's, look at their def ratings), and the bench needed a playmaker.

I know it's several reasons but regular people just assume Lin got benched cuz he sucked.

Lin was the only Cali HS player of the year not to get drafted in history. Lin himself said if he was Black, he would have gotten drafted. Thus, he went undrafted. That was also a negative downspiral, because he was undrafted, he was unable to get playing time and solid PG position in teams.

Lin getting that contract had nothing to do with him being Asian. Sure, he brings in marketing and can sell a lot of seats. But his contract was from the hype he put out during his stint in Linsanity in NYK. A Black player who went from no-name-about to be cut player to a more points than Lebron in his first 6 games would surely get a huge attention in the basketball mecca (NYK) where they need something to hype about to make the medicore team feel important.

If anything, Lin being Asian made him go undrafted, and now it's hurting him by having the coach choose a 3rd stringer start over Lin (who honestly is a really damn good PG)
parkufarku
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
882 Posts
October 25 2014 19:52 GMT
#2274
On October 26 2014 04:40 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Lin is nowhere near Dragic/Lowry level...


We haven't seen Lin be given a chance to perform. Lin was unable to play point guard in Houston for 2 years, and told to wait in corner as a spot-up shooter (not his natural position or strength). He had to play with ball-stopping Melo / Harden, and his NYK year, he might have gotten more chance to perform but that was also his very first NBA year (technically).

Lin is as good as Dragic / Lowry. Dragic averaged 11 points a game in Houston's "PG killer" system. Please reserve your judgment after Lin is actually given one real chance to prove that he's a good player.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
October 25 2014 20:00 GMT
#2275
is this clutchfans
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
October 25 2014 20:02 GMT
#2276
Lin as backup at least lets him have more control of the offense ( doesnt have to fight with Kobe that much). Plus, it doesn't matter who starts because he is by far the best option and will get the majority of the minutes.
"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
seiferoth10
Profile Joined May 2010
3362 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-25 22:45:00
October 25 2014 22:32 GMT
#2277
On Randle..

Sometimes when he gets the defensive board, his eyes go red and he tunnel visions the coast to coast like his life depended on it. The only bad habit I've seen from him is he loves going coast to coast more than he loves his mother.

He does have poor body control and flails around a lot in the post, but that works for Blake Griffin, so maybe he's just the 'bull in a china shop' type of post player also.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-26 01:22:10
October 26 2014 01:21 GMT
#2278
On October 26 2014 04:52 parkufarku wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2014 04:40 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Lin is nowhere near Dragic/Lowry level...


We haven't seen Lin be given a chance to perform. Lin was unable to play point guard in Houston for 2 years, and told to wait in corner as a spot-up shooter (not his natural position or strength). He had to play with ball-stopping Melo / Harden, and his NYK year, he might have gotten more chance to perform but that was also his very first NBA year (technically).

Lin is as good as Dragic / Lowry. Dragic averaged 11 points a game in Houston's "PG killer" system. Please reserve your judgment after Lin is actually given one real chance to prove that he's a good player.


Upping Lin's usage isn't going to magically make up for his many, and drastic, shortcomings. Not to mention he's literally moved into an offense that is now taking away one of his few strengths (his three point shooting).

I mean, there's no good pick and roll bigs on the Lakers, either. I wonder what part of Lin's game you are asking us to reserve judgement on.
Remember Violet.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
October 26 2014 01:23 GMT
#2279
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--stalling-contract-talks-between-thompson--warriors-causing-frustration--201359342.html


l o l
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
parkufarku
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
882 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-26 02:52:25
October 26 2014 02:51 GMT
#2280
On October 26 2014 10:21 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2014 04:52 parkufarku wrote:
On October 26 2014 04:40 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Lin is nowhere near Dragic/Lowry level...


We haven't seen Lin be given a chance to perform. Lin was unable to play point guard in Houston for 2 years, and told to wait in corner as a spot-up shooter (not his natural position or strength). He had to play with ball-stopping Melo / Harden, and his NYK year, he might have gotten more chance to perform but that was also his very first NBA year (technically).

Lin is as good as Dragic / Lowry. Dragic averaged 11 points a game in Houston's "PG killer" system. Please reserve your judgment after Lin is actually given one real chance to prove that he's a good player.


Upping Lin's usage isn't going to magically make up for his many, and drastic, shortcomings. Not to mention he's literally moved into an offense that is now taking away one of his few strengths (his three point shooting).

I mean, there's no good pick and roll bigs on the Lakers, either. I wonder what part of Lin's game you are asking us to reserve judgement on.


Drastic shortcomings like what?

Shooting? Good/Decent
Getting to the rim? Elite
Passing? Good/Decent
Defense? (False myth, actually league average, sometime nights above average)
Turnovers? Was bad in NYK but that was his first real NBA year and his TO has gone down every year
Vision / BBIQ? Good/Decent
Going to the left? He can drive to the left very fast now, and does it quite frequently

Tell me, what are his "many drastic shortcomings"? Do you actually see him play rather than listen to the garbage the media likes to spit out about Lin?
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