EPTNBA Offseason 2014 - Page 115
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On October 26 2014 11:51 parkufarku wrote: Drastic shortcomings like what? Shooting? Good/Decent Getting to the rim? Elite Passing? Good/Decent Defense? (False myth, actually league average, sometime nights above average) Turnovers? Was bad in NYK but that was his first real NBA year and his TO has gone down every year Vision / BBIQ? Good/Decent Going to the left? He can drive to the left very fast now, and does it quite frequently Tell me, what are his "many drastic shortcomings"? Do you actually see him play rather than listen to the garbage the media likes to spit out about Lin? Even if literally everything you just said was true (and it is not), that does not make him as good as Dragic and Lowry(or at the very least the seasons they showed last year, who knows if they maintain that level of play). Let's go through your list, anyhow. His drastic shortcomings include his defense (If you are defending his defense then you are insane, it is terrible). He's bad on like every defensive metric I can find. Really bad. And even beyond that, he looks really bad when you watch him play defense. He is not elite at getting to the rim. Unless you consider Elite anyone in the top 30 players at getting to the rim(and that's being generous, he's probably lower than that). Then you have the problem of once he gets to the rim he can't actually finish with both hands and that he's not the greatest at passing out of a bad look (this is where he gets a lot of his turnovers, than and his sometimes lackadaisical dribbling). Define basketball IQ. I love when that word gets thrown around. Tell me what it means. By the by, it is not synonymous with court vision and shouldn't get the same rating. Jeremy Lin's strengths are he can score really well on one side of the floor (both shooting and finishing), he's great at the pick and roll, and he's a good passer in set plays (like pick and rolls or pick and pops!). His horrible weaknesses are his defense, his scoring on the other half of the floor, and his terrible passing when a play breaks down. Also he has problems with security while dribbling. This is the problem with him on the lakers, right now. They take away his good three point shooting, which puts a bigger focus on the weaker part of his offensive game (it necessarily means a higher percentage of his shots will come in the areas he's worse at converting at an effective rate). The Lakers don't have a single good pick and roll player to pair with him, again taking away one of his best offensive skills. His defense is atrocious. I don't think Jeremy Lin is even a bad player. In the right situation he can be a very good player. But the Lakers are not the right situation given everything they've shown so far. | ||
]343[
United States10328 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia12795 Posts
On October 26 2014 10:23 Ace wrote: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--stalling-contract-talks-between-thompson--warriors-causing-frustration--201359342.html l o l They should just pay him. If he goes RFA next year he'll def get a max offer and the Dubs will match. He's improving each year and has shown signs he could be pretty monstrous this year. Still has shortcomings but he's working on them. edit: And they should have traded him for Love if the offer really did exist but I guess that's moot now. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
I get why they didn't trade for love -- good wing talent with good defense is hard to find in the league. But for the very same rare quality you have to pay him. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia12795 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
They could let him go to max because the offer he'd get from a team would allow them to match for less years and less raises in the contract. | ||
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rabidch
United States20288 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia12795 Posts
He's more diverse than Korver offensively but they have similar games. Klay can make his own shot (he's particularly good at abusing mismatches in the post) where as Korver's always going to be a guy who needs assisting (they both work very well off the ball though offensively). They should just pay Klay. They've invested in him now and are just delaying the RFA process. Unless there's some gain in cap flexibility for holding off it all seems like grandstanding to me. Klay gonna get max one way or another. It's a matter of when. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
I don't even care that he's more diverse. I care about how effective he is. And as of right now he isn't a better offensive player than Kyle Korver who does more than catch and shoot 3s. Klay also does not post up a lot and abuse mismatches. Again, this was mostly touted during the playoffs against Chris Paul but it isn't a weapon the Warriors are using because Klay isn't a great post up player yet. Delaying the contract so another team offers it is a way to "save money" because he won't get max years or raises if they offer it to him first. Either way I don't see him as a 15/yr guy until he becomes great at something or at the very least above average in several areas with respect to other SGs. | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19343 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
But they actually have no choice since they turned down the Kevin Love trade to keep Klay. It would actually be a PR nightmare for them if they don't. | ||
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JuneMay
49 Posts
On October 26 2014 22:08 Ace wrote: Klay's defense has been getting overrated for a while now, and he isn't really that good of an on ball defender. GS uses Iguodala and Green more (when he actually got PT) as wing defenders. Klay has moments where he looks good and everyone uses that as if it represents his defense all year. Unless he was an Iguodala level defender then I could see it as justification for the 15m/year he wants.He can not guard 3 positions well at all. I don't even care that he's more diverse. I care about how effective he is. And as of right now he isn't a better offensive player than Kyle Korver who does more than catch and shoot 3s. Klay also does not post up a lot and abuse mismatches. Again, this was mostly touted during the playoffs against Chris Paul but it isn't a weapon the Warriors are using because Klay isn't a great post up player yet. Delaying the contract so another team offers it is a way to "save money" because he won't get max years or raises if they offer it to him first. Either way I don't see him as a 15/yr guy until he becomes great at something or at the very least above average in several areas with respect to other SGs. Korver is 33+, Klay is very young i think something like 24. Also Korver played in 13 seasons and only once in all those years he scored over 1k points, which was in 2006/2007 when he barely got 1067. Most of his seasons he was not even starter, and many seasons he scored maybe 300-400 points. Klay scored 1359 in his second season, and 1488 in his 3rd. Just scoring wise, Klay at this age is already so much ahead of Korver and in future difference will only grow. Another thing is Korver is just catch and shoot player, and hes not getting any better. He probably couldn't even run 30+ minutes at his age. Hes defense was always terrible, he could never attack the paint... Korver never lead any team deep into playoff, young Klay is arguably 2nd or 3rd best player of his team, team which is constant presence in playoffs on hard west. I could go on and on forever, but I would feel like im feeding the troll... | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Klay is at best, the 4th best player on the team. I'm guessing Korver not leading his team to a playoff run or minutes, or points scored doesn't apply to Klay now does it? What do any of these arbitrary things you bring up have to do with justifying Klay getting 15m/year? | ||
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JuneMay
49 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
You got any proof to back up this nonsense or you just gonna bang harder on that keyboard? | ||
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JuneMay
49 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
![[image loading]](https://sanjosebarstool.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/sygwa97-5390d9a60362b3.gif) If this old guy beats Klay in several areas that matter on a basketball court shouldn't that cause you to question just how good Klay is? | ||
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Haiq343
United States2548 Posts
Klay is decent/good at most things. He's tall. His most notable weakness is that he is not (yet?) a creator of his own offense, and certainly not for his teammates. GS has bet that he's going to continue to improve, and that they feel it's important to have a bigger co-gaurd to pair with Curry. Korver does one thing stupendously well, and has built his game around running screens etc to make his shooting even more potent. He's also continued to add to his game and despite his reputation has always been a tolerable team-defender. The comparison between the two is a little silly. However it's totally reasonable to debate if Klay is going to be 'worth' the contract he's going to get (I can't imagine someone doesn't offer him the bazillions) because he is not, at this point, remotely as good as the top-tier dudes. And as Ace was saying, Curry, Bogut and Iggy are all probably more important to the team's success. Although with the new salary cap who knows what's about to happen. We can also question not trading him for Love, which is still mind-blowing to me. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On October 26 2014 23:18 JuneMay wrote: Yea u are def just some troll. Last year Korver 12.0 ppg, Klay 18.7 ppg. Korver will never have 18.7 ppg even in his best young days he could never get those numbers. He don't posses ability to score points consistently, never had and never will. Not to mention Korver got these 12.0 in loser atlanta. Get him to decent team on west, he will warm bench for 82 games. You wandered into the wrong neighborhood, motherfucker. I wish I had more opportunity to watch Hayward play so I could compare them because some people seem to think his contract will be reasonable once the cap increases. | ||
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