EPT2014 NBA Finals - Page 2
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
head, heat | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On June 03 2014 02:44 Ace wrote: http://sportsandillumination.com/2014/03/19/breaking-down-per-in-the-nba/ God that Rodman video. Is there a more athletic and longer top 5 in the history of the NBA? Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Harper, Kukoc. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
On June 03 2014 04:20 ShoCkeyy wrote: So many spurs fans all the sudden. lots of miami antifans who can't help but respect the spurs (how can you not respect the spurs??), probably | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On June 03 2014 04:29 Jibba wrote: God that Rodman video. Is there a more athletic and longer top 5 in the history of the NBA? Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Harper, Kukoc. It is reasonable to suggest that Rodman, not Jordan, is the "most valuable" NBA player of all time, because he dominated his niche to an extent that no other player dominated his. In other words, Jordan might be the greatest scorer of all time, but he was not "more better" than other top scorers in the same way that Rodman was "unbelievably more better" than all other top rebounders. http://skepticalsports.com/?p=197 | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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FakePseudo
Belgium716 Posts
On June 03 2014 17:30 oneofthem wrote: spurs are almost as old as the yankees. statistically, the Heat is older than the spurs. I don't know what it'd look like if you ponderated the ages by the average minutes played in playoff rotation though. But I'd bet it'd favor the spurs even more, since they're the only playoff team to rotate this much in crunch time. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
without spurs system churning out useful and young depth they would not be here though, so i guess they are younger than it seems, largely because of their old guys taking lesser of a role than imagined edit: yea nice graph point still stands | ||
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FakePseudo
Belgium716 Posts
![[image loading]](http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/assets/4549571/Picture_3.png) | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13529 Posts
On June 03 2014 05:32 GrandInquisitor wrote: It is reasonable to suggest that Rodman, not Jordan, is the "most valuable" NBA player of all time, because he dominated his niche to an extent that no other player dominated his. In other words, Jordan might be the greatest scorer of all time, but he was not "more better" than other top scorers in the same way that Rodman was "unbelievably more better" than all other top rebounders. http://skepticalsports.com/?p=197 Hmmm, yeah, no... * Jordan was far, far more than just a great scorer. Melo is a great scorer. Durant is a great scorer. Jordan was in a whole other league. * Jordan won half his titles without Rodman (Horace Grant instead--a great role player in his time too). Maybe if you change it to most valuable role player of all time, then yes. Then again I guess it depends on your definition of "most valuable". A blinkered view--which I would take--would simply suggest which player on the team had the most value. And it's obviously Michael Jordan. Role players like Rodman are the icing on the Jordan cake (and in Rodman's case, the cherry on top too. Rodman was great because he was very elite at two aspects of basketball (defence and rebounding) and relentlessly played to these strengths because he had two coaches in particular that recognised and maximised his value (Daly and Jackson). He knew what he was and never tried to be more. That's part of what makes really good role players like him so valuable. But it doesn't make him the most valuable. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On June 03 2014 04:20 ShoCkeyy wrote: So many spurs fans all the sudden. Not surprising considering you, Aerisky and applesauce1 seem to be the median Heat fan. :p | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On June 03 2014 21:19 RowdierBob wrote: Hmmm, yeah, no... * Jordan was far, far more than just a great scorer. Melo is a great scorer. Durant is a great scorer. Jordan was in a whole other league. * Jordan won half his titles without Rodman (Horace Grant instead--a great role player in his time too). Maybe if you change it to most valuable role player of all time, then yes. Then again I guess it depends on your definition of "most valuable". A blinkered view--which I would take--would simply suggest which player on the team had the most value. And it's obviously Michael Jordan. Role players like Rodman are the icing on the Jordan cake (and in Rodman's case, the cherry on top too. Rodman was great because he was very elite at two aspects of basketball (defence and rebounding) and relentlessly played to these strengths because he had two coaches in particular that recognised and maximised his value (Daly and Jackson). He knew what he was and never tried to be more. That's part of what makes really good role players like him so valuable. But it doesn't make him the most valuable. It is harder to replace Rodman's talent than any other because he is the most unique, elite talent in NBA history. Kobe's more similar to Jordan than any other player in history is similar to Rodman. Though obviously Jordan is A: Better and B: More important to those Bulls teams. His scoring skillset is more important to a winning team, even if it's not as unique. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13529 Posts
Have been a lot of good players since MJ but none remind me of him. LeBron is the most dominant since MJ imo but his game is more like some weird hybrid of magics all round game and Shawn kemps athleticism. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On June 04 2014 05:06 Ace wrote: Actually Jordan's scoring skillset is probably more unique than Rodman's rebounding. Kobe isn't really close to Jordan in terms of offensive impact at all. Rodman's rebounding for his size and build is way more deviant from the mean than Jordan's scoring and efficiency for his. On June 04 2014 08:58 RowdierBob wrote: I've watched a lot of Nba since the early 90s and I haven't seen anyone close to Jordan. Have been a lot of good players since MJ but none remind me of him. LeBron is the most dominant since MJ imo but his game is more like some weird hybrid of magics all round game and Shawn kemps athleticism. Is this a troll or something? Magic's game is so dissimilar from Jordan's I'm not sure what you're saying. It's not about being close to Jordan's greatness or whatever. Kobe in his prime is a moderately worse fascimile of Jordan -- this is something that Jordan himself has readily acknowledged. Hell there's other guards like Johnson who have a similar skill set, even if the drop off is enormous. You can't name another Hall of Fame -- heck, even All Star level player who's even remotely similar to Rodman. The man's game is as unique as, well, as unique as he is. It's not just about counting rebound numbers or you'd just toss Wilt's name into every conversation and be done with it. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On June 04 2014 09:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Rodman's rebounding for his size and build is way more deviant from the mean than Jordan's scoring and efficiency for his. Actually, no . There hasn't been a player in league history that had such a long outlier scoring career with absurd usage rate. Even crazier is Jordan is a SG and destroyed almost everyone else's best seasons outside of Kareem. From his rookie year he was a high usage, highly accurate mid-range shooter. You just don't see that. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On June 04 2014 10:04 Ace wrote: Actually, no . There hasn't been a player in league history that had such a long outlier scoring career with absurd usage rate. Even crazier is Jordan is a SG and destroyed almost everyone else's best seasons outside of Kareem. From his rookie year he was a high usage, highly accurate mid-range shooter. You just don't see that. There have been a lot of guards in league history with high usage and great midrange shooting. Jordan is obviously of the best bunch and had the highest usage of any of them, which is impressive. The argument isn't about what's the most impressive. I'm not sure what you're saying I don't see but you're applying an argument to what I'm saying that I didn't make. Usage rate isn't a unique skill set. Jordan's scoring and efficiency with a heavily midrange and athletic based scoring skill set isn't as separated from the pack as Rodman's rebounding rates. This isn't some knock to Jordan but everytime you mention Jordan as not the #1 of something someone will always say some unrelated crap about Jordan destroying everyone like somehow, someone here is ignorant of Jordan's dominance. That's not the argument. It's purely an acknowledgement of an amazing statistical outlier that is Rodman. It's a matter of "oh, that's interesting," not a competition to talk about how awesome Jordan is. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13529 Posts
On June 04 2014 09:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Rodman's rebounding for his size and build is way more deviant from the mean than Jordan's scoring and efficiency for his. Is this a troll or something? Magic's game is so dissimilar from Jordan's I'm not sure what you're saying. It's not about being close to Jordan's greatness or whatever. Kobe in his prime is a moderately worse fascimile of Jordan -- this is something that Jordan himself has readily acknowledged. Hell there's other guards like Johnson who have a similar skill set, even if the drop off is enormous. You can't name another Hall of Fame -- heck, even All Star level player who's even remotely similar to Rodman. The man's game is as unique as, well, as unique as he is. It's not just about counting rebound numbers or you'd just toss Wilt's name into every conversation and be done with it. Que? I compared LeBron to magic... | ||
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