Another 2 months later, and my bench and press regressed majorly. This week I failed a 86kg bench and a 57kg OHP. I maintained most of the other lifts at least.
I spend a lot of time analyzing what the hell is wrong with my presses and it seems to be my left shoulder. I don't have any pain, but my entire left upper body seems to be less mobile.
Symptoms during lifting: When I bench press I have trouble retracting my scapula properly. Sometimes it works from unracking, but then with every rep I can feel my left scapula slipping more and more to the side. As a result my entire left side becomes unstable, elbow begins to flare, shoulder to rotate in. OHP I can't make out a specific fault other than that I feel unstable / weak.
Other symptoms: When I am hanging from a pull up bar in a dead hang, I can reach the floor with my right toes. But not with my left. When placing a roller on my upper back, lying down on it, overextending the back and reach up with my arms I can reach the floor with my right hand, not with my left. When I am in front of a mirror and squeeze my scapulars together, I see my right elbow disappear behind my back, but can still see my left.
Over the past 2 months I had exactly one workout where I managed to get my scapula into place while benching. And of course then the lift was really, really easy. But just the same week later I would fail the same weight because my left side is collapsing again.
Stuff I tried so far:
Everything I could find for shoulders and upper back from Kelly Starret. It doesn't seem to help at all. I can spend an hour mobilizing my shoulder, and it will feel really good, but then the next day the same thing happens benching.
Accessory exercises: Close grip and incline bench I have been doing, but there I am experiencing the same issue than with bench. I have added barbell rows and dumbbell bench/incline bench as well.
Been going to physio therapy and had back massages. This works somewhat, but only very temporary for about one day.
This entire development has been going on for about 6-8 weeks. Just in May I was repping out 95kg bench and now I am failing sets 10kg less
Questions:
Since my left leg is still noticeably weaker than my right from my injury, and I am continuing squatting and deadlift, is it possible the heavy lifts bring my entire body into imbalance and cause my shoulder to be messed up somehow? I am really careful to lift as evenly as I can with the squat and DL but I notice myself leaning on my stronger leg on heavy sets sometimes.
Any advice? I am going to see a doctor next week as well but maybe anyone has another idea?
If you don't feel like a baby after the massage its a pretty poor one. A competent chiro would also check your back and make sure all your muscles and both shoulder joints are properly alligned. I would bet you just need someone to bring your shoulder down and back.
I would start by eating more and changing my routine (you can do other stuff aside from those 6 exercises and endless sets of fives)
Asking a doctor about the staleness in your lift is like asking a random programmer how to get better at bw.
Yeah you don't need a doctor you just need a better PT/massage therapist/chiro. Identify your imbalances and work to correct them.
Yeah, I really wished I would finally find someone competent enough to fix stuff like that. It's really not easy at all though. So many quacks out there. And yeah I am not placing much hope on the doctor but I have just run out of things to try. I might get a prescription for another round of trying PTs at least.
I am really hesitant to changing my routine, as it's really unlikely for this to be a strength issue. My routine and diet did carry me to 95kg after all, and I don't think a 100kg bench is unreasonable at 75kg BW.
On September 12 2014 22:41 zatic wrote: Yeah, I really wished I would finally find someone competent enough to fix stuff like that. It's really not easy at all though. So many quacks out there. And yeah I am not placing much hope on the doctor but I have just run out of things to try. I might get a prescription for another round of trying PTs at least.
I am really hesitant to changing my routine, as it's really unlikely for this to be a strength issue. My routine and diet did carry me to 95kg after all, and I don't think a 100kg bench is unreasonable at 75kg BW.
Yeah best you can do is look around for reviews/recommendations.
And I'm sure your strength and programming is fine, but if you're imbalanced and not activating the right muscles you're fucked.
On September 12 2014 22:41 zatic wrote: Yeah, I really wished I would finally find someone competent enough to fix stuff like that. It's really not easy at all though. So many quacks out there. And yeah I am not placing much hope on the doctor but I have just run out of things to try. I might get a prescription for another round of trying PTs at least.
I am really hesitant to changing my routine, as it's really unlikely for this to be a strength issue. My routine and diet did carry me to 95kg after all, and I don't think a 100kg bench is unreasonable at 75kg BW.
Yo do realize routines do not work forever? Specially one where you are not changing reps, sets or exercises.
I think you are at a point where just doing internet routines without any self evaluation and constant trial and error on what works and what not, you will just not make any progress. I honestly do not see the point to doing the same thing over and over, feeling miserable, and refusing to change it. If you are taller than me (1.70cm) you are somewhat skinny and very strong and def need to work harder and smarter than a novice program.
Doing less weight/higher reps when you feel like shit, going for a PR (weight/rep/set combo, not just a single) when you feel abnormally strong, doing power cleans instead of full cleans when your knees are sore seem to me like the most basic thing in the world, which you cannot do when you are following an internet routine like some sort of religion.
See, this would make sense to me if I was at or at least near my PRs. But my beginner strength program has taken me 10-15% higher on almost all lifts in the past. For bench as recent as 4 months ago.
I am actually considering switching up my rep scheme, but this is independent of the current issue I am having with my shoulder / with bench.
On September 12 2014 23:56 zatic wrote: See, this would make sense to me if I was at or at least near my PRs. But my beginner strength program has taken me 10-15% higher on almost all lifts in the past. For bench as recent as 4 months ago.
I am actually considering switching up my rep scheme, but this is independent of the current issue I am having with my shoulder / with bench.
What I'm trying to say is that what worked in the past might not work in the future. If not everyone would just 5x5 Squat/bench/deadlift into worlds records -_-
Another 2 months later, and my bench and press regressed majorly. This week I failed a 86kg bench and a 57kg OHP. I maintained most of the other lifts at least.
I spend a lot of time analyzing what the hell is wrong with my presses and it seems to be my left shoulder. I don't have any pain, but my entire left upper body seems to be less mobile.
Symptoms during lifting: When I bench press I have trouble retracting my scapula properly. Sometimes it works from unracking, but then with every rep I can feel my left scapula slipping more and more to the side. As a result my entire left side becomes unstable, elbow begins to flare, shoulder to rotate in. OHP I can't make out a specific fault other than that I feel unstable / weak.
Other symptoms: When I am hanging from a pull up bar in a dead hang, I can reach the floor with my right toes. But not with my left. When placing a roller on my upper back, lying down on it, overextending the back and reach up with my arms I can reach the floor with my right hand, not with my left. When I am in front of a mirror and squeeze my scapulars together, I see my right elbow disappear behind my back, but can still see my left.
Over the past 2 months I had exactly one workout where I managed to get my scapula into place while benching. And of course then the lift was really, really easy. But just the same week later I would fail the same weight because my left side is collapsing again.
Stuff I tried so far:
Everything I could find for shoulders and upper back from Kelly Starret. It doesn't seem to help at all. I can spend an hour mobilizing my shoulder, and it will feel really good, but then the next day the same thing happens benching.
Accessory exercises: Close grip and incline bench I have been doing, but there I am experiencing the same issue than with bench. I have added barbell rows and dumbbell bench/incline bench as well.
Been going to physio therapy and had back massages. This works somewhat, but only very temporary for about one day.
This entire development has been going on for about 6-8 weeks. Just in May I was repping out 95kg bench and now I am failing sets 10kg less
Questions:
Since my left leg is still noticeably weaker than my right from my injury, and I am continuing squatting and deadlift, is it possible the heavy lifts bring my entire body into imbalance and cause my shoulder to be messed up somehow? I am really careful to lift as evenly as I can with the squat and DL but I notice myself leaning on my stronger leg on heavy sets sometimes.
Any advice? I am going to see a doctor next week as well but maybe anyone has another idea?
do you sleep on your side? this can fuck up your shoulder badly
try this: lie back on a flat bench and put both arms behind you to grab the bench behind+to the side of your head . this may identify weaknesses in one arm/shoulder (if u understand what i mean to do)
also try lightweight straight-to-the-side-sideraises and see if one shoulder fucks up
i had insane problem with this for a long long time and struggled for a long time to never sleep or lie on my side, even for 2 minutes. i bet you right now if i lean/lie on my left side then my left shoulder will get fucked up within 5 minutes and remain fucked up for at least a few days if not weeks.
not sleeping on ur side is a shitty habit to break if you've been doing it all ur life since you REALLY WANNA do it since its ur comfort snuggle position. also i took up lateral raises which strengthened my shoulders crazy after a long time. to begin with i could often not be able to side-raise 5kg with my left shoulder just because the shoulder bones would get caught up in one another and get stuck (nasty). but now i power like 7.5kg straightothesideraises for 10 reps without thinking about it
i still get the problem doing OHP like i said in my post the other day when i said "40kg is good coz i have obv form prob". i need to very consciously tuck my left arm in somehow otherwise it sort of pops into a dumb position. this is also true of things like the wrist curls i tried with dumbells, my left arm was so obviously unable to bend in a normal fashion that i abandoned them simply on the basis of that. also holding ur arms up they are wonky/try the bench thing i mentioned, i couldnt do it for ages just coz my left shoulder would fuck
if this IS the case for you then i highly recommend not fretting about it and instead lower weight greatly until you realise that you are doing an exercise with perfect form, and work on only moving up whilst forcefully maintaining that form in your dodgy shoulder/arm. i also recommend lateral raises and figure out if you sleep on your side because im sure thats what fucked me up over the many years of lying in bed watching BW every day of my life
i understand that ur lifts can suffer from this greatly coz i had many many sessions where i am like MY FUCKING SHOULDER FFS and was like "ok im not going to wank for a whole week (coz i wanked lying in bed on my side)" and every time i wanked i wud be like "oh my fucking shoulder im such a fucking retard now i have to put up with it for another few days and i have ohp tomorrow agggh". yeah sometimes i wud be like "fuck it i need a decent wank i dont care if my shoulder is fucked up after 2 mins" or i wud try lying on my other side or god forbid sit on a chair but then u think someone might walk in ur room randomly FFS
My university will most likely be able to accomodate me training 8x a week (flexible scheduling and such), so then I can row at the very highest national level in my first year of rowing :D Coach thinks that I have potential to row european/world's/oly level in my second year of studies (which would be fucking awesome).
On September 12 2014 23:56 zatic wrote: See, this would make sense to me if I was at or at least near my PRs. But my beginner strength program has taken me 10-15% higher on almost all lifts in the past. For bench as recent as 4 months ago.
I am actually considering switching up my rep scheme, but this is independent of the current issue I am having with my shoulder / with bench.
What I'm trying to say is that what worked in the past might not work in the future. If not everyone would just 5x5 Squat/bench/deadlift into worlds records -_-
It's up to you though obv.
Yeah, that "let's do a rountine that's 3x5 on most lifts" shit gets old pretty quick, after you've been lifting for a while. I do whatever I have "programmed" to do most days (since decaf sucks and doesn't program me that often ) and then I do whatever I feel like I need to work on.
For example, last week I noticed that I was "kicking" the bar too low, that created an imbalance on the lift, I needed to jump forward to catch the bar, working on a hangClean+Clean complex allowed me to tackle that deficiency and get better at it.
I'm by no means good now (decaf tells me that I suck everyday of my life), but I do feel like wherever you can pick on to improve you gotta do it. Try to get out of that comfort zone (3x5 routine, strict all of that) and start doing shit you love. It is weird as fuck sometimes, I used to come into the gym and not have anything programmed to do, that is kind of "scary" but it's fun as hell.
Today I did a WOD.
Time Cap: 25minutes (teams of 5).
5 Ring Dips 10 Power Cleans @ 60kg 20 Burpees 30 OHS @ 35kg 30 Double Unders or 60 Singles 20 KB Swing / KB Single Hand Snatch 10 Box Jump 24' 5 Laps Running (as a team)
I finished last with 23:48m. It tackled my endurance, by stamina and a lot of other shit that I never thought I'd work on ever. But by having more stamina and more endurance, by lifting is going to improve a shitton too.
On September 13 2014 06:15 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote: My university will most likely be able to accomodate me training 8x a week (flexible scheduling and such), so then I can row at the very highest national level in my first year of rowing :D Coach thinks that I have potential to row european/world's/oly level in my second year of studies (which would be fucking awesome).
So, what you;re saying is, that you NO LONGER LIFT BRAH?
So no gym in my city has a deadlift platform (I guess that's pretty common though). When I'm putting the 45s on the bar and pulling from the floor, I think it's too high off the ground and I'm getting some lat activation, which is obviously a bad thing. I wonder if I should use dumbbells or just only use 35 plates.
1 - a deadlift platform isn't necessary to deadlift. It just protects the floor. 2 - I've never seen a pair of 45s that are larger diameter than bumper plates... and unless you're a much smaller person than I am, bumper plates put the bar just below mid-shin which is perfect. 3 - why is lat activation a bad thing in the deadlift? 4 - why does bar height at starting point affect your lat activation?
Your options, as I see them:
1 - get used to deadlifting from the height of those 45's 2 - use 35's instead of 45's, and essentially do deficit deads 3 - Go to home depot, buy a couple 2x4's and a piece of plywood, and build yourself a 2-3 inch step to do deficit deads from.
I'm normal sized (if you think 5'8'' is normal). What's happening is I'm bending down, but before i get far enough down, my hand is hitting the bar. So a) I can't get my hips under it and b) my shoulders are retracting a little bit , which is putting the weight on my back and lats.
On September 14 2014 08:05 Jerubaal wrote: I'm normal sized (if you think 5'8'' is normal). What's happening is I'm bending down, but before i get far enough down, my hand is hitting the bar. So a) I can't get my hips under it and b) my shoulders are retracting a little bit , which is putting the weight on my back and lats.
Not sure what you mean by getting hips under bar. You do want your abs and lats at tight as possible; I have never tought about shoulders during deadlifts, but I assume they retract pulled by the lats.
On September 14 2014 08:05 Jerubaal wrote: I'm normal sized (if you think 5'8'' is normal). What's happening is I'm bending down, but before i get far enough down, my hand is hitting the bar. So a) I can't get my hips under it and b) my shoulders are retracting a little bit , which is putting the weight on my back and lats.
I don't see how you would get your hips under the bar without getting your hips below your knees, and your hips should not be below your knees on a deadlift.
EPT
