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NBA 2013-14 Season - Page 113

Forum Index > Sports
Post a Reply
Prev 1 111 112 113 114 115 252 Next
Disregard
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
China10252 Posts
December 10 2013 17:39 GMT
#2241
Isiah too good
"If I had to take a drug in order to be free, I'm screwed. Freedom exists in the mind, otherwise it doesn't exist."
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-10 18:15:37
December 10 2013 18:13 GMT
#2242
On December 11 2013 02:17 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 17:34 Doraemon wrote:
On December 10 2013 17:30 Jerubaal wrote:
On December 10 2013 17:25 AppleSauce123 wrote:
Spoelstra is the greatest coach in the league


Did you get a name change Aerisky?

I'm done with this echo chamber.


On December 09 2013 15:07 Jerubaal wrote:
I just shook my head at Grantland proclaiming Miami "the most highly evolved offense'.


you still haven't explained why they don't have the most highly evolved offense. all you did was go on a diatribe about how spol isn't great, he's unproven, he's so lucky he got 3 big stars.

Because its just not that special. All it is, is playing to your players strengths. The only reason its "evolved" at all is because how horrendous Miami's offense was early on, because the big 3 were just doing ISO all the time, rather than playing as a team.

There is nothing that makes the Heat's offense more evolved than the Triangle offense or Princeton offense. Its not even that the offense is highly evolved, its the players that evolved and learn how to play with each other. They have great ball movement. As they should with one of the best play creators of all time in LBJ. Chris Bosh hitting elbow jumpers, Wade cutting to the basket, and Chalmers camping at the three point line while LBJ directs the offense isn't special. Its just basketball.


That is just wrong. Their offense has definitely changed since their first year but it is not as simple as you want to make it sound. And I can actually make an argument that it is more highly evolved than the Triangle and the Princeton offense because they feature the 3-point shot in their offense more. It is not that you can't tweak the Triangle or Princeton to use the 3-pointer more (which is a modern concept due to better shooters and efficiency per shot), it is just that there aren't teams doing it better than the Heat the last two or so years.

And Jibba actually explained some of the things that they do on offense well but I found the following about their offense (written last season) interesting. And they are even better this year..

.....
The Heat have almost totally reinvented their offense over those three seasons, and in the process they've done something very rare: taken a good offense and transformed it into something almost historically great. The Heat ranked eighth in points per 100 possessions last season, sporting a mark about two points above the league's overall average, per Basketball-Reference.com.2 They're no. 1 this season, a full seven points over the league's overall average — a huge five-point year-over-year jump in comparison to the NBA's general scoring output.

How rare is that? Only 51 teams since 1953-54 have made such a large jump, relative to league average, from one season to the next, per research Basketball-Reference's Neil Paine performed for Grantland. Not surprisingly, most of the teams on this list were very bad in Year 1 and made some sort of massive (and positive) offseason change before Year 2.3 Only four teams have ever improved this much on offense in Year 2 after having merely an above-average offense in Year 1; the Heat will be the fifth such team.

The other four:

• 1971-72 Los Angeles Lakers: an all-time great team, owner of the 33-game streak Miami is chasing.

• 1995-96 Chicago Bulls (Michael Jordan's first full season back from retirement).

• 1997-98 Los Angeles Lakers: Shaquille O'Neal plays nine more games than prior season, Kobe Bryant no longer a rookie.

• 2003-04 Sacramento Kings.

And now the Heat, a super-team that for two years was prone to puzzling and inexcusable bouts of stagnancy on offense.4 No more. Miami is a pass-happy team that whips the ball around the floor, shifts bodies all over the place in carefully coordinated motion sets, gobbles up the most efficient shots available, and generally destroys opposing defenses in a way that is both visually pleasing and nothing like how they played in the past. League observers used to talk about Orlando's four-out/one-in system, with four shooters surrounding Dwight Howard in the post or on the pick-and-roll. Miami and Erik Spoelstra have one-upped that by often playing a five-out system, with all five guys moving around the 3-point arc as the Heat run through a series of rehearsed actions while hunting for gaps in the defense. It's a system Miami settled upon through organic internal growth, free-agent signings, injury-related improvisation, and the study of everything from college football to NCAA basketball to high-profile international hoops teams.
.....
Source

I just find it really hard to not give Spo any credit for this.
"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-10 23:23:56
December 10 2013 23:14 GMT
#2243
On December 11 2013 02:17 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2013 17:34 Doraemon wrote:
On December 10 2013 17:30 Jerubaal wrote:
On December 10 2013 17:25 AppleSauce123 wrote:
Spoelstra is the greatest coach in the league


Did you get a name change Aerisky?

I'm done with this echo chamber.


On December 09 2013 15:07 Jerubaal wrote:
I just shook my head at Grantland proclaiming Miami "the most highly evolved offense'.


you still haven't explained why they don't have the most highly evolved offense. all you did was go on a diatribe about how spol isn't great, he's unproven, he's so lucky he got 3 big stars.

Because its just not that special. All it is, is playing to your players strengths. The only reason its "evolved" at all is because how horrendous Miami's offense was early on, because the big 3 were just doing ISO all the time, rather than playing as a team.

There is nothing that makes the Heat's offense more evolved than the Triangle offense or Princeton offense. Its not even that the offense is highly evolved, its the players that evolved and learn how to play with each other. They have great ball movement. As they should with one of the best play creators of all time in LBJ. Chris Bosh hitting elbow jumpers, Wade cutting to the basket, and Chalmers camping at the three point line while LBJ directs the offense isn't special. Its just basketball.
This is not just basketball. If LBJ is the best play creator in the NBA right now, would you say Chris Paul is #2? Is the Clippers's off-ball movement even in the same realm as the Heat's? They score a lot of points, but it's running in transition like the Heat were in 2011, rather than executing in the half court (besides Crawford and Paul being amazing iso players.) Like I said, LBJ is actually initiating their offense less this year, so he's involved in the cuts like Wade is. The open looks are created through movements and screens, not a double team on an LBJ drive.

It's evolved because they leveraged their extraordinary talent to do things other teams can't. It includes the triangle, because they can run it through Lebron. They're also able to make cross-court passes more easily because of Lebron. So you're partially right, but plenty of other teams have had extraordinary talent and haven't been able to mold their offense around their players' strengths (ie. OKC.) Probably less than a third of the teams in the NBA run set plays competently from 1-5, and the Heat are #1 or #2. So it might not be "special" that players do what they're supposed to do, but in the context of other NBA teams it is.

If Lebron goes down for a stretch of time, I think the Heat's offense will still be very successful the same way the Spurs' is. I don't think that's true for Durant and the Thunder or Harden and the Rockets, even though all three offenses lead in PPP.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
December 10 2013 23:20 GMT
#2244
Lebron actually had a low +/- to start the year because Wade + Miami's bench were lighting teams up without him. They could always do it but not at this level of consistency. This really isn't "insert Lebron and get good offense" going on.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
December 10 2013 23:28 GMT
#2245
Well, good thing the Heat don't have the closest facsimile of Lebron in the league on the team.
Freeeeeeedom
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
December 10 2013 23:30 GMT
#2246
You're right, Michael Beasley is a boss
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-10 23:41:11
December 10 2013 23:33 GMT
#2247
This is what the rest of the league has to suffer through.



This just hurts my brain so much. Like, I'm sure Eric Maynor thinks he knows everything about a p&r, the most basic play in basketball, but he clearly doesn't. You can't initiate it from 5 feet beyond the 3pt line because your big man isn't a threat if he gets the ball back at 28ft, so the defense doesn't have to respect it at all.

The first cross screen that's set does literally nothing to slow the chasing defender. It's a complete waste of motion. Same thing with the ensuing pin.

The timing of the baseline cut is slow, so Maynor can't make an immediate pass when he gets his opening.

There's a clearout after the next screen, but instead of cutting to the basket when the Nuggets switch, the screener blindly runs back to the high post, totally useless to the guy with the ball. Then he just gets in the way, so Maynor can't keep going in that direction.

These players are like foreign BW players, that repeat motions but don't fully understand why they're doing them, so they do a lackluster job and are ultimately useless.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
Jaaaaasper
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States10225 Posts
December 10 2013 23:36 GMT
#2248
Spo is a good coach for no other reason than taking three super stars (before they joined up at least) and keeping them all working together and not fighting over who gets the ball. I think he tends to get outcoached vs the true elites of the league, but calling him anything worse than solid to good is just letting your hatred of the heat blind you too his talent.
Hey do you want to hear a joke? Chinese production value. | I thought he had a aegis- Ayesee | When did 7ing mad last have a good game, 2012?
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-11 00:35:55
December 11 2013 00:28 GMT
#2249
Okay, as I say that the Heat run a silly amount of Lebron iso plays.

Also, I don't think I'd ever seen a guard airball a FT before.

I wonder if Lebron is sick. Surprising to see him so exhausted in the first quarter. If Lebron is sick, Paul George is dead.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
seiferoth10
Profile Joined May 2010
3362 Posts
December 11 2013 00:35 GMT
#2250
It's basically been Lebron steamrolling the Pacers' defense so far, but he has to sit down eventually...
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
December 11 2013 00:35 GMT
#2251
Heat showed up to play tonight. They're usually on auto-pilot in regular season games, but they are playing like they have something to prove tonight.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17692 Posts
December 11 2013 00:44 GMT
#2252
i love how the guys the Raptors acquired in the trade will take 2 weeks to show up for their first game.
they are arriving by horse driven carriage i guess.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
hootsushi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany3468 Posts
December 11 2013 01:02 GMT
#2253
PG looks kinda pissed, not a good sign.
DystopiaX
Profile Joined October 2010
United States16236 Posts
December 11 2013 01:02 GMT
#2254
probably has something to do with canada/working in canada or something like that.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
December 11 2013 01:06 GMT
#2255
damn not a good game for my Paul George for MVP campaign
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
December 11 2013 01:15 GMT
#2256
better now than later.
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
hootsushi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany3468 Posts
December 11 2013 01:37 GMT
#2257
17 turnovers for the Pacers and they are tied with the Heat, good lord.
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
December 11 2013 02:15 GMT
#2258
Is it just me or is roy hibbert an unstoppable force every time they play the heat.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
December 11 2013 02:20 GMT
#2259
whats wrong with this boxscore?

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400489185
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-11 02:24:20
December 11 2013 02:23 GMT
#2260
i'm really confused what happened between last season and this season except for tyson chandler hurt that has made the knicks so bad. I really think Bargs is a good 1 on 1 defender vs. big men but he just lacks all awareness on help D.
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