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Time to move on to the next thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sports/460943-2014-2015-football-thread | ||
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mavignon
France369 Posts
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2013.html Though La Liga has lost of talent this summer, and if you take into account the financial difficulties of spanish clubs and the FFP coming soon, in the next few years the question "what's the best league" might be easier to answer. And what is wrong with all the people saying "there is no debate" anyway..? It's really not easy to answer imo. | ||
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Maenander
Germany4926 Posts
But, as mavignon pointed out, La Liga lost a lot of talent this summer, not only to the EPL but also to the nouveau riche clubs in France and even Bayern, and that might shift the balance. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On September 06 2013 06:57 Steveling wrote: When did I say it's more competitive lol. I said it's better. As in better players, better teams, better football(even though that's subjective). Hence my cup wins and % argument earlier. Your right, seems like I was reading of of what someone else said, my bad. But still for a league to be better its not just quality of teams. Once your at a certain level of quality european performance and general skill levels become fluid. After that its the level of entertainment and involvement a league provides to fans aswell as the neutral. I think Spanish teams are better to and as opposed to your "take a look" at European performance stat I actually went and broke it down in some massive wall of text last year as far as quality of football is concerned. That having been said currently how good teams are in Continental competition is irrelevant to what a league in itself provides toward the supposed title of "best league" and being competitive is right up there with high quality because like I said just being good at the game isnt really that great if theres only going to be 1 of 2 winners. A good league isnt just the sum of how good its players are unfortunately and thats why more people watch english football than spain. Granted theres other factors in there but the way the ball has rolled its only going to get better for England and not vice versa no matter how many uefa cups Spanish teams win. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On September 06 2013 07:47 Rebs wrote: a)That having been said currently how good teams are in Continental competition is irrelevant to what a league in itself provides toward the supposed title of "best league" b)A good league isnt just the sum of how good its players are unfortunately and thats why more people watch english football than spain. c)Granted theres other factors in there but the way the ball has rolled its only going to get better for England and not vice versa no matter how many uefa cups Spanish teams win. Who determines the criteria for a and b, lol. That's only your opinion man and while every opinion is subjective, mine as well, I at least back it up with numbers and messi. As for c, the only reason that the most watched league is the PL is that english is an international language. Hell, even though I watch la liga, I do it via english tv, that says it all. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18635 Posts
On September 06 2013 07:58 Steveling wrote: Who determines the criteria for a and b, lol. That's only your opinion man and while every opinion is subjective, mine as well, I at least back it up with numbers and messi. As for c, the only reason that the most watched league is the PL is that english is an international language. Hell, even though I watch la liga, I do it via english tv, that says it all. PL being the most watched league does have little to do with the language... | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On September 06 2013 06:57 Steveling wrote: When did I say it's more competitive lol. I said it's better. As in better players, better teams, better football(even though that's subjective). Hence my cup wins and % argument earlier. Champions League wins is 5 for Spain and 3 for England since 2000. The only two clubs that won for Spain are Barca/RM and three different English clubs have won. Europa League doesn't really matter, for a number of reasons. Hell, European play doesn't really say anything about how good an individual league is when you're talking about the top 3-4 leagues in Europe. La Liga has far more boring football, a far worse atmosphere, worse fans, and infinitely more diving. Any difference between supposed quality of play is negligible. Furthermore, it has next to no exciting competition for who wins what, and that's been covered extensively and isn't arguable. La Liga is one of the least competitive professional sports leagues in the world since 2000. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On September 06 2013 07:58 Steveling wrote: Who determines the criteria for a and b, lol. That's only your opinion man and while every opinion is subjective, mine as well, I at least back it up with numbers and messi. As for c, the only reason that the most watched league is the PL is that english is an international language. Hell, even though I watch la liga, I do it via english tv, that says it all. Believe me you really dont want me doing numbers. And you didnt really offer any numbers you just went ahead and said "go and check it out" And a) is irrelevant because when you are watching spanish teams in Europe you are not watchinga La liga game. Thats not really something anyone has to determine. Thats just fact.. and b is perhaps subjective but then you look at league popularity and what a league as an organization sets out to achieve in the current era then im afraid your idea of what a good league is will run spain into the ground and has been for a while now. | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
When I wasn't in China and I actually had time to watch many games, I didn't bother to watch many la Liga games (except for Barça and Real games) because it's just not that exciting. They play a better football (subjective indeed) than in the EPL, but the fact that these other teams are playing for nothing more than the 3rd spot isn't really thrilling. You have to admit that EPL games have that something special that makes the games a lot more enjoyable to watch, starting with the public  It really pains me to say it, because I think in the last 3 years I have never managed to watch a full 90 minutes EPL game (because I don't support a team there or because they are sometimes so bad tactically that it makes me ragequit), but the EPL is definitely a better league than la Liga... | ||
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mavignon
France369 Posts
On September 06 2013 08:00 sharkie wrote: PL being the most watched league does have little to do with the language... I think the language, and more generally the marketing and the brand recognition, of the the Premier League has a lot to do on why the PL is the most watched in the world. It's easier for Americans and Asians to get into the game when they can actually understand the players doing post game interviews, local pundits explaining in depth stuff, etc. Otherwise why a league like Bundesliga wouldn't be more watched? There are more goals on average than any other leagues, highest attendance, a golden generation of local players, teams that perform very well in Europe, competitive and balanced at all levels, etc. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On September 06 2013 02:35 Ysellian wrote: This actually got me thinking. Arsenal's brand + Ozil should recoup a large amount of his transfer in shirt sales alone. I have to admit I'm quite tempted in getting one myself. You should! On September 06 2013 02:43 kyllinghest wrote: I´ve always wondered how many extra shirts clubs actually sell when they buy big names. Are there really that many people who buys the kit only for a name? Wouldn´t they buy the kit if it wasn´t for said player? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/premier-league/10226052/Top-10-bestselling-Premier-League-shirts-for-2012-13-season-revealed-but-where-is-Gareth-Bale.html I'd personally only buy a kit for a player. If I wanted to buy something blank just to show that I like the club, I'd buy a regular shirt since kits are expensive Also:Özil's Arsenal kit sales are now crushing Bale's Real Madrid kit sales. Not even close. On September 06 2013 02:55 Pandemona wrote: If Carrick and Cleverly start im not watching and will send an email calling for Hodgson to be removed from his position immediatly ;_; If Wilshere plays 90 minutes in both games, I will do the same. Let him rest already. On September 06 2013 11:13 mavignon wrote: I think the language, and more generally the marketing and the brand recognition, of the the Premier League has a lot to do on why the PL is the most watched in the world. It's easier for Americans and Asians to get into the game when they can actually understand the players doing post game interviews, local pundits explaining in depth stuff, etc. Otherwise why a league like Bundesliga wouldn't be more watched? There are more goals on average than any other leagues, highest attendance, a golden generation of local players, teams that perform very well in Europe, competitive and balanced at all levels, etc. I'd be watching the Bundesliga all day if my cable provider didn't suck and carried the channel that televises it. T_T | ||
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OopsOopsBaby
Singapore3425 Posts
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kyllinghest
Norway1607 Posts
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On September 06 2013 15:21 kyllinghest wrote: Regarding popularity of leagues I can add that here in Norway we have been able to watch the english top division on telly since late sixties. I think availability is a big factor in what league is the most popular. Availability and marketing, I can´t think of a very good reason why language would have much to do about it as football itself is a language of its own! The thing is that language and coverage/marketing are a vicious circle that directly lead to each other. If more people know English than Spanish, then you are going to see more coverage of English-speaking leagues. Because of this, Less people are going to be inclined to start covering non-English-speaking leagues because the large fan base is already with the English speakers. It just kind of feeds itself and it'll be a cold day in Hell before the BPL gets overtaken in overall popularity, and language is definitely a contributing factor. And language definitely matters to viewers. Diehard fans may appreciate a game without understanding the language being spoken, but most people want 1) actually have commentary with their game (silent games just suck to watch) and 2) they want to be able to understand (or at least enjoy listening to) a certain language that is commentating. For instance, I absolutely hate listening to Spanish (a completely irrational and arbitrary hatred, as the language is fine, but there you go), which is one of the many factors that contributes to my intense dislike for watching La Liga. Conversely, I am (obviously) fluent in English and proficient in German, so I can listen to a game in either and be fully entertained/engaged. I tried watching a game with Russian commentators once, and I've even taken a little Russian, but it was just so distracting that I couldn't do it. unfair to compare ozil to bale shirt sales. consider the fact that arsenal dont really have any big names since rvp and carzola so they probably could buy a few more ozil shirts. with all the exciting names coming through the door each transfer window, madrid fans are probably sucked dry on shirt purchases. but i can see what the tweet is trying to imply. On the flip side, RM undoubtedly has more fans, so there are more people available to buy shirts. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On September 06 2013 07:09 Sated wrote: It's going to be really interesting to see how that midfield lines up. Very happy for Lambert. Indeed, however we are vs Moldova :D thus they should have no problems and we should score a goal...or 5! I agree with what you said earlier about the only chance you have of playing Lamps and Gerrard together is by putting someone to sit behind them, which i think is good. Against the teams where we need to score and we should be beating, Ukraine/Poland/Montengro/Moldova/San Marino in our groups then we should be playing that. However i do concede when we are going up against the big boys, we should be changing it up and being more defensive. However that front 3 lol, god im not convinced! | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Zlatan Ibrahimovic has revealed that he was 'willing to die' for Jose Mourinho but described Pep Guardiola as a 'spineless coward'. "Mourinho would become a guy I was basically willing to die for," he wrote in his autobiography I am Zlatan Ibrahimovic, excerpts of which have been reported in the Daily Mail. "He works twice as hard as all the rest. Lives and breathes football 24/7. I've never met a manager with that kind of knowledge about the opposing sides. It was everything, right down to the third-choice goalkeeper's shoe size. "It was a while before I met him. He's elegant, he's confident, but I was surprised. He looked small next to the players but I sensed it immediately: there was this vibe around him. "Mourinho created personal ties with the players with his text messages and his knowledge of our situations with wives and children, and he didn't shout. He built us up before matches. It was like theatre, a psychological game." He said: "Guardiola sacrificed me. That's the truth. One of my mates told me: 'Zlatan, it's as if Barca had bought a Ferrari and was driving it like a Fiat,' and I thought: 'Yeah, that's a good way of looking at it.' Guardiola had turned me into a simpler player and a worse player. It was a loss for the whole team. "He wouldn't even say good morning. Not a single word. He avoided eye contact with me. If I went into a room, he would leave. 'What's going on,' I thought. 'Is it something I did? Do I look wrong? Am I talking funny?' All these things were buzzing around in my head. I couldn't sleep. "I completely lost it, and you might have expected Guardiola to say a few words in response, but he's a spineless coward." "I was thinking about it constantly. Not because I needed Guardiola's love, exactly. He could hate me, as far as I was concerned. Hatred and revenge get me going. Now, though, I lost my focus. "Because of Guardiola's problem, the club were forced to do a disastrous deal to sell me - it was crazy. I'd scored 22 goals and 15 assists during my season at Barcelona. Yet I'd lost nearly 70 per cent of my value. Whose fault was that? Guardiola, the quiet little over-thinker, had tried to wreck me." More of the Quotes here, seems an interesting book! | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On September 06 2013 08:00 sharkie wrote: PL being the most watched league does have little to do with the language... Actually it has everything to do with language, atleast it did initially and then with sugar daddies and early mover market penetration snowball that tv coverage has experienced in the big markets the world over and in Asia in particular is. You have to realise europe doesnt count for shit in terms of tv money, there just arent as many of you as their are of us :p. Not just language but game times that sort off aligned with prime time tv slots and things like this. there so many reasons that can be chalked of as happy accidents, fortunate coincidences and then good marketing.. You think some random dude in Malaysia or Hong Kong wearing a united or arsenal or chelsea jersey has been a football fan his entire life ? 90 percent of your non european fanbase has developed since around 2002. More so post 2004-5 when the PL actually decided they were being idiots for not marketing themselves harder. Theres a reason so many teams go on asian tours now and ofcourse USA you are next.. Germany and Spain are just also-rans at this point and italian footballs reputation took a hit at the wrong time. i can tell you this from first hand experience because ive grown up in those markets and seen the evolution of the coverage and the money involved. From getting one shitty liga and serie A game a week in the 90's to a total explosion of EPL (God bless you Rupert Murdoch) coverage which sort of by coincidence fit perfectly for prime time tv slots in most of subcontinental and east asia. Also a throwback to that best league bs that starts up every year or so it seems. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=249755¤tpage=404#8074 | ||
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BeaTeR
Kazakhstan4130 Posts
On September 06 2013 17:24 Pandemona wrote: Zlatan Ibrahimovic has revealed that he was 'willing to die' for Jose Mourinho but described Pep Guardiola as a 'spineless coward'. "Mourinho would become a guy I was basically willing to die for," he wrote in his autobiography I am Zlatan Ibrahimovic, excerpts of which have been reported in the Daily Mail. "He works twice as hard as all the rest. Lives and breathes football 24/7. I've never met a manager with that kind of knowledge about the opposing sides. It was everything, right down to the third-choice goalkeeper's shoe size. "It was a while before I met him. He's elegant, he's confident, but I was surprised. He looked small next to the players but I sensed it immediately: there was this vibe around him. "Mourinho created personal ties with the players with his text messages and his knowledge of our situations with wives and children, and he didn't shout. He built us up before matches. It was like theatre, a psychological game." He said: "Guardiola sacrificed me. That's the truth. One of my mates told me: 'Zlatan, it's as if Barca had bought a Ferrari and was driving it like a Fiat,' and I thought: 'Yeah, that's a good way of looking at it.' Guardiola had turned me into a simpler player and a worse player. It was a loss for the whole team. "He wouldn't even say good morning. Not a single word. He avoided eye contact with me. If I went into a room, he would leave. 'What's going on,' I thought. 'Is it something I did? Do I look wrong? Am I talking funny?' All these things were buzzing around in my head. I couldn't sleep. "I completely lost it, and you might have expected Guardiola to say a few words in response, but he's a spineless coward." "I was thinking about it constantly. Not because I needed Guardiola's love, exactly. He could hate me, as far as I was concerned. Hatred and revenge get me going. Now, though, I lost my focus. "Because of Guardiola's problem, the club were forced to do a disastrous deal to sell me - it was crazy. I'd scored 22 goals and 15 assists during my season at Barcelona. Yet I'd lost nearly 70 per cent of my value. Whose fault was that? Guardiola, the quiet little over-thinker, had tried to wreck me." More of the Quotes here, seems an interesting book! posted about his book a couple of months ago On July 12 2013 13:43 BeaTeR wrote: Just started to read Ibra's autobiography book (DLed it from thepiratebay) The guy shits on guardiola from the very beginning of it lol interesting indeed! | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Im guessing the translators here in England slacked off on translating it before finding the gold xD | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
On September 06 2013 09:49 WillyWanker wrote: Spanish teams are definitely better than EPL ones on average That's so mental, they blatantly aren't. The depth in the EPL blows la liga out of the water. | ||
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