Cujo was a much better player who put up pretty good stats on relatively average teams.
By that same token, Lundqvist, Renne, Lu, etc are all much worse goalies. I think I just felt a few brain cells bursting as I wrote that.
Fleury posts shit to average stats on what's about as close as you're gonna get to a 90s style Wings dynasty team. Yet, despite having a team that almost everyone agrees is stacked like crazy this year, and is 10th for ga in the league, the only stat column you can find Fluery sitting in the top 5 in is wins. Everything else, he is no better than 15th.
Pitt end of season goal rankings, going from this year back: 1, 1, 12, 5, 5, 6, 3, 19, 22
Must be hard allowing one less goal than the opposition!
On April 11 2013 00:56 QuanticHawk wrote: I look forward to MAF and his career playoff .904sv to show up just in time for the first round!!
"average" is a poor statistic in general. many players are streaky as their confidence ebs and flows throughout a season. this makes his ".904 save percentage" with out much meaning. this theoretical ".904 save percentage goalie" you speak of... does not exist.
the real question is this.
will we get the MAF from Pittsburgh's first trip to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals with MAF in net? OR will we get the MAF from last year's playoffs?
ive not posted in this thread for several days because ive been trying to think of a way to properly respond to something so dumb, so completely and totally absurd, and i am absolutely stumped. so, uh, congrats. ..... how are any of these things without much meaning
no, stupid is trying to refute my claim that Carlyle has turned the leafs into a well coached team. but.. that was 10+ weeks ago... so let's forget that one.
i explained exactly why it applies to MAF. Read it. maybe if you tried playing the position in RL you might understand. myself... i play goalie in lacrosse and hockey.
average as a statistic is a poor descriptor of hockey goalie performance. as you have noted stuff like GAA and Save percentage has been around for an eternity... and this is part of the proof of how crap it is.
stop watching TV and learn some theoretical statistics. gain a bit of a background in that area. and you'll see why "average" is a poor descriptor... if you want this discussion to go down the theoretical stats route... let me know.... i'll be happy to engage you in this area.
sticking to practical reality for the moment
IF these "high level bullshit numbers" (made popular by guys who know nothing about statistics as a mathematical field) THEN drafting goalies would be predicable. It is not ... its an unmitigated disaster in terms of reliability.
Patrick Roy was drafted 51st overall on the basis are great "averages" like GAA and SavePercentage .... etc etc. Martin Brodeur ..20th.
Both won Cups on "goalie teams". The foundations of their respective teams were built around.... not Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Alex Ovechkin or Bobby Orr (all sure fire can't miss skaters who never had the impact Roy did on any Stanley Cup they were part of).
I can go on and on and on .... about goalies whose future behaviour has nothing to do with their "averages"...from every era of the game. off the top of my head i know a list of about 50 goalies with varying career lengths.
The whole "Crazy goalie" thing is partly based upon the fact that their behaviour is not predictable by these lousy stats like GAA and SavePercentage.
Because smart NHL teams know these statistics do not mean much they avoid risking big picks on goalies. DESPITE THE FACT that the goalie is the single most important position when it comes to winning the Stanely CUp.
The goalies in the HOF .. when were the drafted ? When were the last 100 skaters brought in the HOF based upon their NHL performance... when were they drafted.
we can either go down the practical reality road of examining real results by real NHL goalies. OR the theoretical route of why "career average" is not a very meaningful statistic for describing a hockey goalie. we can also apply this to several other sporting endeavres like pitching.
NHL Teams realize how meaningless these statistics are... their drafting behaviour proves this... until recently these high level stats were all they had to go on. Now, that almost every CHL game is on TV they can spot a Carey Price by watching him play almost every game.... without having to rely on "GAA" and "SP".
On April 13 2013 03:11 Flaccid wrote: An average can predict future performance. Meaningless imo. 0nLY CuPZ MATTRZzZ
i'm particularly attacking the "career average" statistic applied to a streaky goaltender during a future playoff performance.
examining a goalie's "averages" during a recent hot streak can be meaningful in assessing how he (or she) may play in the next game.
i only mention hot streak because playoff goalies on a "cold streak" are either eliminated from the playoffs ( patrick roy, felix potvin) or benched (Roberto Luongo).
It can be useful to see that hey, Craig Anderson is playing pretty well. But would he be your playoff goalie? Looking at career statistics and general talent level is still important. Goaltending can be a fickle thing, that's why you would go to people who have done it time and time again. Lundqvist, Brodeur and Kiprusoff come to mind.
A rather complete and well-rounded player. Söderberg is a very talented and highly skilled center with good two-way ability. He has excellent hockey sense, decent nose for the net and fine playmaking ability. Release is good and so are his technical skills and creativity. Not the fastest of skaters, but feet are still pretty good. Controls the puck very comfortably with his reach. Valuable in short-handed situations.
On April 13 2013 08:57 JimmyJRaynor wrote: we can either go down the practical reality road of examining real results by real NHL goalies.
In which case we can look at the numbers they put up in the NHL.
drafting goalies would be predicable. It is not
smart NHL teams know these statistics do not mean much they avoid risking big picks on goalies.
Patrick Roy was drafted 51st overall on the basis are great "averages" like GAA and SavePercentage .... etc etc. Martin Brodeur ..20th.
The goalies in the HOF .. when were the drafted ?
NHL Teams realize how meaningless these statistics are... their drafting behaviour proves this
Or not. Though I suppose theoretical statistics implies using statistics to back up a theoretical argument that no one had in the first place. Everyone knows that the how a player transitions from junior to NHL competition is unpredictable - especially for defenders and goaltenders. Which is why we were talking about NHL numbers.
Also I'm a goalie in quidditch so don't argue with me.
Boston has probably had the best four-line setup since the year they won the cup. Lots of valuable forwards that put in a lot of effort. And all of them are at least not old guys except for Jagr. Only people of note up for a new contract next year are Horton, Ference, and Rask. Might have to let Horton go to sign Rask, but even still goddamn.
the leafs did not play very well. they are lucky Carey Price was awful.
On April 14 2013 21:17 sharkeyanti wrote: Boston has probably had the best four-line setup since the year they won the cup. Lots of valuable forwards that put in a lot of effort. And all of them are at least not old guys except for Jagr. Only people of note up for a new contract next year are Horton, Ference, and Rask. Might have to let Horton go to sign Rask, but even still goddamn.
Unfortunately, Horton is 1 more big hit away from retiring. Sign Rask.
On April 14 2013 21:17 sharkeyanti wrote: Boston has probably had the best four-line setup since the year they won the cup. Lots of valuable forwards that put in a lot of effort. And all of them are at least not old guys except for Jagr. Only people of note up for a new contract next year are Horton, Ference, and Rask. Might have to let Horton go to sign Rask, but even still goddamn.
Unfortunately, Horton is 1 more big hit away from retiring. Sign Rask.
Larry Robinson , best defensemen ever because only cups matter... both as a coach and a player.
as far as a team prez goes.. they need a guy with some business background to go with hockey knowledge... like say.. Ken Dryden.
especially with this giant arena lease thing and all the jockeying for position going on between the team and hte city.. Ken Dryden is the perfect guy for those kinds of political/business moves.
and last i checked.. Ken Dryden won more cups than lowe.
Well, the Oilers organization is easily the most dysfunctional one. O well, enjoy watching those young kids play for you Edmonton fans, they will all sign somewhere else.
NHL Teams realize how meaningless these statistics are... their drafting behaviour proves this
Or not. Though I suppose theoretical statistics implies using statistics to back up a theoretical argument that no one had in the first place. Everyone knows that the how a player transitions from junior to NHL competition is unpredictable - especially for defenders and goaltenders. Which is why we were talking about NHL numbers.
NHL stats.. here is how meaningless the that "great historical stat" save percentage is...
In 1993 Potvin's save percentage was .910 and Roy's was .894
Roy wins the Conne Smythe... Potvin is busy kicking pucks into his own net.
another year Roy won the Conne Smythe his save percentage was 0.875.
Ed Belfour went undrafted and Patrick Roy went 51st over all
quoting some average career stat doesn't say much.. especially about a streaky player... because u never get that "average performance"
On April 16 2013 03:18 Sub40APM wrote: Well, the Oilers organization is easily the most dysfunctional one. O well, enjoy watching those young kids play for you Edmonton fans, they will all sign somewhere else.
It seems to operate more like a religious cult than a professional organization.
EPT![[image loading]](http://s1.postimg.org/llcahiqi7/Capture.jpg)
