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On June 17 2013 14:25 Arisen wrote:
I just finished week 3 or 4 on my C25k program (Run 3 mins, walk 1.5, Run 5 Mins, Walk 2.5 repeat). Next week will be tough as it's the first week where there are no walk breaks (1 20 min jog on the third day of the program). Since I've started running on the treadmill I've gotten a lot more control over my speed (going at 4MPH at the moment, I could go faster, but I'd rather for sure be able to keep up and add speed later). The only discouraging thing is that even when I'm able to run for a full 5k, I'll only be doing so in approximate 45 mins :O
When is it the right time to bump up the pace?
Whenever. What I mean by that is just go with whatever feels easy and comfortable. If you get to the point where it starts to feel like it is taking a real aerobic strain to keep up...back off.
Get through one 20 min day day at 4.0. Then increase pace every 2 min by .1 mph until it feels like you can't call it easy anymore, then back down by about .2 - .3
Once you get through C25K we can begin to think about adding some faster stuff in to start preparing you mechanically to run faster.
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On June 17 2013 14:25 Arisen wrote:
I just finished week 3 or 4 on my C25k program (Run 3 mins, walk 1.5, Run 5 Mins, Walk 2.5 repeat). Next week will be tough as it's the first week where there are no walk breaks (1 20 min jog on the third day of the program). Since I've started running on the treadmill I've gotten a lot more control over my speed (going at 4MPH at the moment, I could go faster, but I'd rather for sure be able to keep up and add speed later). The only discouraging thing is that even when I'm able to run for a full 5k, I'll only be doing so in approximate 45 mins :O
When is it the right time to bump up the pace?
I just finished W5D3 personally, so we're just at about the same place.
It was easier than expected for me. I actually was dreading the workout all week, but at the end I just thought to myself "Huh, that's it?" I'm not certain that it'll go the same way for you, but you'll be surprised at how much progress you've made by just jogging those intervals.
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Does anyone here with more racing experience than me (Trident, Airblade?) have advice on keeping calm before a race? I'm six days away from my race for June. It's another race of no consequence – basically a chip-timed 5k tempo, and the first half is full of hills and twisting turns, so any kind of time goal is also a bit dubious.
And yet I'm still really pumped up this far out. I suspect this will translate into running the first mile way too fast and screwing myself for the last two, which is what I also did in my race last month. I seem to care an embarrassing amount about these races in a way I struggle to control.
So, how do you avoid getting too wound up before a race?
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On June 18 2013 06:16 Bonham wrote:
Does anyone here with more racing experience than me (Trident, Airblade?) have advice on keeping calm before a race? I'm six days away from my race for June. It's another race of no consequence – basically a chip-timed 5k tempo, and the first half is full of hills and twisting turns, so any kind of time goal is also a bit dubious.
And yet I'm still really pumped up this far out. I suspect this will translate into running the first mile way too fast and screwing myself for the last two, which is what I also did in my race last month. I seem to care an embarrassing amount about these races in a way I struggle to control.
So, how do you avoid getting too wound up before a race?
I've never been so pumped up 6 days before a race that I feel like I need to make myself stay calm. Doing things like a few strides after an easy run always served me well 1-2 days before a race. Also contrast showers can work well (3 min as hot as you can take followed immediately by 1 min as cold as possible and repeat a few times). Feeling good after easy runs, strides, and doing recovery things always helped me feel a little calmer through confidence.
For the day of the race just do whatever it is that relaxes you. Maybe listen to some soothing music or strike up some conversations with people there or call up someone you enjoy talking to.
Just force yourself to run the first part of the race relaxed and tell yourself it should feel slow. If you're doing it like a tempo then try to hit certain splits if there are mile markers. Otherwise if you can make yourself run relaxed (no faster than tempo pace/no heavy breathing) until a certain landmark or mile marker then just do whatever you feel like doing. Especially if there are hills for the first part it's very important to be conservative even if you were racing all out.
It's good to care about races but if you're just training through this one then make it your priority to do what it takes to achieve your goals, whatever they may be.
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Use a watch that gives your pace. Gives you near perfect pacing.
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On June 18 2013 08:13 AirbladeOrange wrote:
For the day of the race just do whatever it is that relaxes you. Maybe listen to some soothing music or strike up some conversations with people there or call up someone you enjoy talking to.
Just force yourself to run the first part of the race relaxed and tell yourself it should feel slow. If you're doing it like a tempo then try to hit certain splits if there are mile markers. Otherwise if you can make yourself run relaxed (no faster than tempo pace/no heavy breathing) until a certain landmark or mile marker then just do whatever you feel like doing. Especially if there are hills for the first part it's very important to be conservative even if you were racing all out.
Thanks. I think I'm going to try listening to classical music on the morning of the race instead of my usual pre-race playlist of Girl Talk and Iron Maiden. We'll see how it goes!
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Did 12 k today. Feels great :D.
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United States24768 Posts
Well I certainly can't compare. I did 2.5 miles (at 5mph again) lol. Unfortunately, it was no easier than yesterday! How long before it starts to feel easier?
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On June 19 2013 05:53 micronesia wrote:
Well I certainly can't compare. I did 2.5 miles (at 5mph again) lol. Unfortunately, it was no easier than yesterday! How long before it starts to feel easier?
Keep at it! Persistence will pay off, I promise.
On today being harder than yesterday: your body doesn't get stronger when you exercise. It gets weaker, and it takes time to rebound from that. This often takes more than one day. Even competitive runners who train every day schedule easier runs after hard sessions that leave them sore and weak. Running every day is great, but you need to let your body heal itself.
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On June 19 2013 05:53 micronesia wrote:
Well I certainly can't compare. I did 2.5 miles (at 5mph again) lol. Unfortunately, it was no easier than yesterday! How long before it starts to feel easier?
Back when I started it was when I ran 5k (3 mile I guess) three times in a week for the first time, then rested for two days and then went out for a 5k. Felt like flying.
If you want to build speed and mileage faster than you currently are, I find alternating swimming and running by day much more effective than running daily, but that might be personal. After about 10 days I start I notice a massive improvement in controlling my breathing, overall fitness and reduced stress on joints. Swimming is dull and boring, but if you have decent weather I find it bearable. Running daily leaves my body so stressed that I know I'm heading for injury.
If you're still struggling with your mp3 player, I used to wire it outside my shirt over my back. Or buy a cheap armband for whatever phone is larger than your mp3 player and wear it around your arm (don't ever get belkin).
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Well, didn't have access to a mill, so I just went down to soccer field here on Paris near my hotel. Did 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 laps going (6:00, 4:41, 3:31, 2:14, 51.3). Jog recovery was like 3 min after first, then 4:15, 3, then 45 sec walk before burnout.
Don't know exact length but the field was likely between 300-325m. Very wet/slick though.
Plan is mile solo or vs the bro on next Thursday, then the 4th of July 4M race. Then shut it down to just elliptical + rehab/core and see of I can get 100% recovered.
Will probably have basic for military in 3-4 months, and my goal there is 7:30 for the 1.5M.
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United States24768 Posts
Isn't 7:30 faster than the maximum category for military fitness tests? Are you just trying to crush it for shits and giggles (and trying to be a good runner) or is there a benefit?
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On June 20 2013 06:48 micronesia wrote:
Isn't 7:30 faster than the maximum category for military fitness tests? Are you just trying to crush it for shits and giggles (and trying to be a good runner) or is there a benefit?
Its like 9:00 to max it, so yea just trying to run it fast as part of the process of improving as a runner. As I understand it in basic you run like 3x a week, doing something like 15 min group run, 15 min solo run, 15 min of "sprints" (whatever sprint means). I figure with the mileage being so super low it will be a good chance to work on my speed and hopefully run a decent shorter distance time.
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United States24768 Posts
One thing to consider is that, if you are in extremely good shape going into basic or other training, you will actually regress once you get there doing their less intense training. This may not be a problem, of course.
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On June 20 2013 07:39 micronesia wrote:
One thing to consider is that, if you are in extremely good shape going into basic or other training, you will actually regress once you get there doing their less intense training. This may not be a problem, of course.
Yea that part is funny to think about...go to basic training and get out of shape LOL.
My hope is I can have a pretty big base going in to carry me through the 8 weeks, and do enough fast/intense stuff to be peaked for a good mile and a half. Also helps that I get to go from 7000+ feet to sea level.
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If you go from full training into something much lighter you will improve short-term. It's the tapering all athletes have to use before a match. When you do 3 weeks of nothing you start to lose fitness.
On June 19 2013 05:53 micronesia wrote:
Well I certainly can't compare. I did 2.5 miles (at 5mph again) lol. Unfortunately, it was no easier than yesterday! How long before it starts to feel easier?
As fitness improves and you gain fitness the intensity of your runs don't go up or down.
Most runs should be easy for anyone. And for a beginner or someone training in the off season (no matches anytime soon) all runs should be easy.
There's two sweet spot areas in intensity that give best results.
One is the fastest pace that is still highly aerobic (where pace is so easy you burn mostly fat, not glycogen) .
The other is a pace just below the lactate threshold (where you go into oxygen debt).
How much your aerobic capacity can be improved with training depends on your genes. Differences among individuals are actually surprisingly large. There's relatively large groups of outliers at both extremes.
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On June 20 2013 08:55 Komei wrote:If you go from full training into something much lighter you will improve short-term. It's the tapering all athletes have to use before a match. When you do 3 weeks of nothing you start to lose fitness. Show nested quote +On June 19 2013 05:53 micronesia wrote:
Well I certainly can't compare. I did 2.5 miles (at 5mph again) lol. Unfortunately, it was no easier than yesterday! How long before it starts to feel easier? As fitness improves and you gain fitness the intensity of your runs don't go up or down. Most runs should be easy for anyone. And for a beginner or someone training in the off season (no matches anytime soon) all runs should be easy.There's two sweet spot areas in intensity that give best results. One is the fastest pace that is still highly aerobic (where pace is so easy you burn mostly fat, not glycogen) . The other is a pace just below the lactate threshold (where you go into oxygen debt). How much your aerobic capacity can be improved with training depends on your genes. Differences among individuals are actually surprisingly large. There's relatively large groups of outliers at both extremes.
I think that is an oversimplification. I would not recommend that a runner preparing for a fall cross country season do only easy runs during the entire summer leading up to the season. Long runs, hill repeats, speed work, and even tempo runs could easily and sensibly make their way into a logical training plan. Certainly you don't want to overtrain during this time period but it does not mean all runs have to be easy.
Similarly, people who are beginner runners can also benefit from different types of running like said cross country runner. It all depends on the individual and his/her goals.
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It may seem sensible to you, but it is understood to be inefficient.
It is the fastest way to develop capillaries and increase the efficiency of fat metabolism.
A long run is a slower easy run. Hill repeats, speedwork, etc are a bit of a myth. Running faster isn't an issue of running mechanics or muscle strength. It is an issue of oxygen transport and utilization. Long term the best strategy to run faster is to develop the body to be better and batter at these two things. But it is a slow process. This is why interval training is used shortly before the racing season. Getting the body to be more effective at dealing with lactate is a better way to train on the short term. Things like HIIT give better short term improvement.
Marathon runners or TdF riders are often at an older age. They are actually over their theoretical physical peak. The reason is that years of conditioning the aerobic system is more important.
Pro athletes get older faster than they peak out on max aerobic capacity.
In the end exercising has to be fun. So sacrificing performance for enjoyment is what we all do.
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On June 20 2013 12:27 Komei wrote:
A long run is a slower easy run. Hill repeats, speedwork, etc are a bit of a myth. Running faster isn't an issue of running mechanics or muscle strength. It is an issue of oxygen transport and utilization. Long term the best strategy to run faster is to develop the body to be better and batter at these two things. But it is a slow process. This is why interval training is used shortly before the racing season. Getting the body to be more effective at dealing with lactate is a better way to train on the short term. Things like HIIT give better short term improvement.
I agree that easy runs should be easy and that workouts should be fun, but I don't know how you can say that speedwork is a bit of a myth. I assure you, elite marathon runners don't do all of their mileage at "fun" speed – they do hill repeats, intervals, tempo runs and such.
And even if your dubious strategy were true for the long-distance races you mention, that still leaves out 75 per cent of distance running events. Everyone who runs a 5k, 10k or half marathon benefits from speed training. Do you think Mo Farah, Galen Rupp or Kenenisa Bekele run nothing but easy miles?
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On June 20 2013 12:27 Komei wrote:
It may seem sensible to you, but it is understood to be inefficient.
It is the fastest way to develop capillaries and increase the efficiency of fat metabolism.
A long run is a slower easy run. Long term the best strategy to run faster is to develop the body to be better and batter at these two things. But it is a slow process.
In the end exercising has to be fun. So sacrificing performance for enjoyment is what we all do.
Agree there, aside from the idea that a long run is a slower easy run. It can be as fast, or faster, than an easy run.
Running faster isn't an issue of running mechanics or muscle strength. It is an issue of oxygen transport and utilization
Could not disagree more. Ill get into that but open by making it clear that aerobic development is, BY FAR, the best way to improve and where the vast majority of your improvement throughout a running career will occur.
However, speed matters. Ill use a simple example. Lets say at fastest one can run 100m in 14 seconds (many people are this slow or slower). At best this means you can run 400m in 59-60 seconds. 400 is a predominantly anerobic event, so you cannot just develop strong aerobically and improve 400 indefinitely. Now the problem is apparent...this athlete is limited. Unless he or she has better endurance than Kenenisa or Tergat his 800 best can be no faster than 2:05-2:06. This creates problems for a runner whose goal is to run sub 4 in the mile...which realistically requires 52-53 second speed over 400 at a minimum.
This is why interval training is used shortly before the racing season. Getting the body to be more effective at dealing with lactate is a better way to train on the short term. Things like HIIT give better short term improvment
Yes and no. Don't agree fully. You can jog all day at an easy pace until you are blue in the face and still suck. Countless people go out for easy jogs on a regular basis and still show up and run 30:00 5ks. Running a bunch at only slow paces makes you really good at...running slow paces (not saying you don't need easy running as obv it is THE bread and butter for aerobic development).
You can't just go out and run easy runs and tempos and expect to be ready to run 13:30. Learning to runb fast requires running fast. One thing you are ignoring is that intervals generally involve running at or faster than race pace...which increases efficiency at race pace.In other words, running race pace results in LESS oxygen utilization at that given pace.
Moreover, running certain intervals increases anerobic clearance and efficiency of lactate shuttle...which is essential for running faster races AND assists O2 consumption in ways that easy running does not (more efficient lactate metabolism = more energy from lactate metabolism + more pyruvate and NAD+ regeneration for ET)
This also completely ignorned the mental side, which is that if all you have done pre 5k or mile or w/e is run tempo and easy runs 5k pace will feel extremely fast, and runners often start running tight and less efficiently.
Marathon runners or TdF riders are often at an older age. They are actually over their theoretical physical peak. The reason is that years of conditioning the aerobic system is more important.
Pro athletes get older faster than they peak out on max aerobic capacity.
This is largely true...but one key factor you neglected was that in the past almost always athletes didn't come to the marathon until they had already had a long track career. Now there are many young 20 year old running the marathon, putting up eye popping quick times in the low 2:04s.
You certainly need many years of aerobic development to run a great marathon...but you don't need to wait for 30s to do it.
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EPT
