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On December 29 2012 10:33 LuckyFool wrote:
By the L_Master scale of running prowess I am officially: In good "general" shape. It took a fair amount of work, been working pretty hard since August. I also will be running in another 5K on New Years Day (technically first 5K of 2013? lol) where I hope to run something in the 22-23 minute range to validate my good "general" shape standing.
My 2013 goal is to become a "Legit Runner." My current plans are to run a semi half marathon in late March and then possibly a marathon in late October. I think if I bump my weekly averages up to 20-30 miles a week I can get into that kind of shape no problem. Thanks for this thread, I read it alot more than I post in it.
16:xx shape is pretty good. That's usually solid varsity and 2-3 years of training for most high schoolers with a decent amount of talent. I'd venture the guys getting there are doing on average 40 or mpw, with exceptions to both sides.
The issue with you would be time and prior running/fitness history. What's your activity profile over the last few years look like, how much running and how much sport playing? I don't think it's necessarily impossible but to go from 22 minutes down to sub 17 is BIG TIME jump, particularly if you already have been doing some training as a large majority of guys running 16:xx start running 18/19 after maybe a season of training. Everyone has a different improvement curve though, so even if you aren't all that quick right now or don't drop to 20 flat in your first four or five months of training doesnt mean your hopelessly slow. I know of at least one kid whose high school progression was 25 -> 21 -> 17:30 -> 16:30.
However if your goals are to get faster as a runner, I don't really like the plan you have outlined (i.e. half then full). I think it's better in most cases to learn how to run first, and by that move fast and efficient. Run the 800/1500/mile in the spring, then 5k or something in the fall. Your talking about running 5:28 pace for 3.1 miles, which is not something that plodding around for 3.5-4 hours at 8 minutes will help with a ton. Doing a bunch of repeat 200s at 30s and quarters at 75 will actually help you learn to run fast.
The reason I talk about this is lots of people are slow runners, despite running alot, training for multiple marathons, etc. I've seen plenty of people that run 4,5,6 times a week often for 20-40 miles who are still running 22-30 minute 5ks. To me that's crazy, but a big part of the problem is that all they do is go out and plod 5 or 10 miles at 10:00 pace. That helps a little at faster, and you do you need a base of easy support to prepare the body for faster stuff, but when it comes down to it jogging around slowly doesn't prepare the body very well to run 5:30, or 5:00, or 4:30 pace.
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In high school(2006) I was at around 6:30/mile with probably around 30-40mpw. I did run a sub 6 minute mile once as well in 06. This is pretty much the benchmark I'm shooting for is getting back into that kind of shape. I'm 24 now and over the past couple years I've really only kept at it fairly casually. I didn't run in any 5k's from 2009-2012 and definitely spent long periods of time not working out regularly. It wasn't since last July/August I really started getting serious again. Sports and overall athletic activities were fairly minimal throughout 2009-late 2011. I was slammed with work/school and whatever else and ended up spending most of my free time with friends or playing starcraft, not working out.
I know I'm capable of it, I have a naturally pretty lean/tall body (currently a little heavier than I should be- 6'1 175) I can work my weight pretty easily with proper diet and fitness regimen it's really just a matter of putting the time and doing it right. I agree that plodding along and just putting miles in doesn't automatically equate into faster times. For me I think a big part of it is lifestyle as well and proper diet. I actually started gaining weight in 2011 due to piss poor diet, I was eating all kinds of fast food, alcohol, soda and just generally didn't really care about diet whatsoever) I've since basically cut all of that plus more out of my diet, while going for a more protein based and better regulated diet. (trying not to skip meals as much as I used to and generally eat at more regular times) In fact my 2013 dietary goals I'm treating about as importantly as my actual running as it's probably equally if not more so important for me to help build the kind of of foundation needed to achieve my goals.
I should probably also clarify that I'm not shooting into rushing into getting back into those kinds of numbers quickly, I don't intend to go out next month and run a 17 minute 5k and I agree jumping from 22-23 minutes to 17 is pretty big. But they are my end goals which I think is a realistic possibility for me if I work hard enough at it. I'm also spending a fair amount of time working out as well, trying to spend about 3-4 days a week working out upper body and abs, I used to get some cramps in my shoulder from running (weird?) but it was when I was literally only running and not doing nearly any lifting or anything else and I found even with just minimal lifting the rest of my body was able to keep up better.
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I'm also dreaming to get back into the Legit runner category. Unlike most of the people who I've seen talking about getting back though, I've taken a slightly different route over the past 8 yrs I haven't ran. I got up to 235lbs a couple months ago, which is a far cry from my 155 5'11 runner self in 2004. I was previously a 51/1:58 400/800 guy and ran 16:05 for 3mi with only a year and a half of training and being injured most of my senior year of HS. I know I have the talent to get back into that shape, if I can just find the dedication to run now that I work for a living and have a family.
The last couple of months have been a yo-yo of dedication. I do really well at some points and struggle at others. I was drinking a lot of mt dew and alcohol. I have been without full calorie soda for 3 months now, but haven't been as effective at giving up the alcohol although I have cut back a lot. I've dropped 20lbs already and feel a lot better during my runs.
This week I am going to put in 19 mi over 5 days and I hope to start running with an old high school teammate who just also happened to move 13hrs away from our high school. I think I'm finally in a mental state where I might be successful this time. Even though its easy to say, I think I've finally also grasped that if it took me 8 yrs to get this way, I'm not going to undo it in 3 months. I hope to run my first 5k race again in 2013 and at least go under 19. Depending on how that goes I might just be okay being in between L_Masters Good and Legit states.
Thanks to everyone in this thread for sharing your stories as knowing everyone else is working their ass off helps. 
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16:05 for 3mi? How did you train to get to that speed? Best I can do is 7:30/mi for 5k and 7:45 for 10k.
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On December 30 2012 00:58 Cecil wrote:
16:05 for 3mi? How did you train to get to that speed? Best I can do is 7:30/mi for 5k and 7:45 for 10k.
I was lucky to be a part of a good HS program. For my junior/senior year, we just ran a lot. I ran XC in the fall, then indoor track in the winter and outdoor track in the spring. We did summer running, we trained a lot -- most of the time 5 or 6 days every week. For running its pretty simple, there is only one way to get better and that's to keep doing it.
What helped for me in particular though was I had the speed. If you can run in the mid 4s for a single mile, then running 5:20/mi is much more practical than if your mile p.r. is 5:15. I guess I don't really know how to answer that question better, unfortunately there isn't some secret that just gets you there. It takes a lot of hard work and dedication.
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On December 29 2012 22:20 berated- wrote:I'm also dreaming to get back into the Legit runner category. Unlike most of the people who I've seen talking about getting back though, I've taken a slightly different route over the past 8 yrs I haven't ran. I got up to 235lbs a couple months ago, which is a far cry from my 155 5'11 runner self in 2004. I was previously a 51/1:58 400/800 guy and ran 16:05 for 3mi with only a year and a half of training and being injured most of my senior year of HS. I know I have the talent to get back into that shape, if I can just find the dedication to run now that I work for a living and have a family. The last couple of months have been a yo-yo of dedication. I do really well at some points and struggle at others. I was drinking a lot of mt dew and alcohol. I have been without full calorie soda for 3 months now, but haven't been as effective at giving up the alcohol although I have cut back a lot. I've dropped 20lbs already and feel a lot better during my runs. This week I am going to put in 19 mi over 5 days and I hope to start running with an old high school teammate who just also happened to move 13hrs away from our high school. I think I'm finally in a mental state where I might be successful this time. Even though its easy to say, I think I've finally also grasped that if it took me 8 yrs to get this way, I'm not going to undo it in 3 months. I hope to run my first 5k race again in 2013 and at least go under 19. Depending on how that goes I might just be okay being in between L_Masters Good and Legit states. Thanks to everyone in this thread for sharing your stories as knowing everyone else is working their ass off helps.
We are in similar situations and I have been on my road back to legit runner since the first of November. I was a 1:59 800, 4:26 1600, and 9:39 3200 runner back in 2003 and have run next to nothing since. Went from 5'9 115 to 175 but in the last two months I'm already down around 20lbs with some dieting and exercise.
Over the years I have taken small pokes at getting back into shape but either injury or motivation have swayed me back to laziness. Right now I found a group of people to run with that I meet up with 3-4 times a week. There are places like meetup.com to find a group of runners around you. Even though I'm faster than most of these people I meet up with they always help motivate you to run and ask how you're progressing. Setting goals or having some road races you'd like to run in is helpful you see can improvement and have something to look forward too. Though GPS watches weren't big back in our day they are absolutely awesome at tracking progress and to help training.
I went to an open track meet and ran a 5:06 1500 today and it felt great! Went from barely being able to run a 6:15 mile in October to a 5:28ish today!
If you'd like to maybe have a little race back to legit I'm down for some friendly competition!
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On December 30 2012 09:13 [cF]TridenT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 22:20 berated- wrote:I'm also dreaming to get back into the Legit runner category. Unlike most of the people who I've seen talking about getting back though, I've taken a slightly different route over the past 8 yrs I haven't ran. I got up to 235lbs a couple months ago, which is a far cry from my 155 5'11 runner self in 2004. I was previously a 51/1:58 400/800 guy and ran 16:05 for 3mi with only a year and a half of training and being injured most of my senior year of HS. I know I have the talent to get back into that shape, if I can just find the dedication to run now that I work for a living and have a family. The last couple of months have been a yo-yo of dedication. I do really well at some points and struggle at others. I was drinking a lot of mt dew and alcohol. I have been without full calorie soda for 3 months now, but haven't been as effective at giving up the alcohol although I have cut back a lot. I've dropped 20lbs already and feel a lot better during my runs. This week I am going to put in 19 mi over 5 days and I hope to start running with an old high school teammate who just also happened to move 13hrs away from our high school. I think I'm finally in a mental state where I might be successful this time. Even though its easy to say, I think I've finally also grasped that if it took me 8 yrs to get this way, I'm not going to undo it in 3 months. I hope to run my first 5k race again in 2013 and at least go under 19. Depending on how that goes I might just be okay being in between L_Masters Good and Legit states. Thanks to everyone in this thread for sharing your stories as knowing everyone else is working their ass off helps. We are in similar situations and I have been on my road back to legit runner since the first of November. I was a 1:59 800, 4:26 1600, and 9:39 3200 runner back in 2003 and have run next to nothing since. Went from 5'9 115 to 175 but in the last two months I'm already down around 20lbs with some dieting and exercise. Over the years I have taken small pokes at getting back into shape but either injury or motivation have swayed me back to laziness. Right now I found a group of people to run with that I meet up with 3-4 times a week. There are places like meetup.com to find a group of runners around you. Even though I'm faster than most of these people I meet up with they always help motivate you to run and ask how you're progressing. Setting goals or having some road races you'd like to run in is helpful you see can improvement and have something to look forward too. Though GPS watches weren't big back in our day they are absolutely awesome at tracking progress and to help training. I went to an open track meet and ran a 5:06 1500 today and it felt great! Went from barely being able to run a 6:15 mile in October to a 5:28ish today! If you'd like to maybe have a little race back to legit I'm down for some friendly competition!
Considering competition is what I miss most from running, I really want to take you up on the challenge. However, I'm just no where near being able to run around 5:28ish right now.
The first two months of running I didn't go over 2 miles because I'm just so far out of shape. I took it slow to make sure that I'm not quitting this time. I had slowly increased to running 5 times a week but even then my max mileage was 13 mi for a week. I had dropped off from running again after 6 wks in because I caught a cold, but luckily my twin came into town for Christmas and helped get me re-motivated. I put in 19 this week but that's a pretty big increase considering my previous best weekly mileage.
If you're not at like mid 17s by the time I get under 200lbs, I'll take you up on the challenge.
Edit: Right now my biggest goal is getting under 195lbs. I have promised myself I'm going to get a tattoo on the opposite leg of my twin's tattoo right where the split leg opens if I can get "back-ish" into shape.
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Well I ran my first 5k back on thanksgiving and it was 19:57 but I think at the moment I'm around 19 flat after this last month of training. Start losing those pounds so we can have a nice little competition! I'm thinking about running the LA Marathon so I wont be doing much speed work and will be focusing on the miles
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On December 30 2012 00:58 Cecil wrote:
16:05 for 3mi? How did you train to get to that speed? Best I can do is 7:30/mi for 5k and 7:45 for 10k.
It's a combination of talent, training, diet, etc.
Some people, especially if they are lightly active, can pretty much come off the couch, do a season of XC, and be running close to that. Others take 4,5,6+ years to get to that point. You never know.
As far as the training, gradual progression of mileage with 1-2 higher intensity periods per year (2-3 months) is the most classical training route. One might start out running 20-25 mpw in HS, and progress to around 100+ mpw 8 years later at the end of their college career.
I'm a big believe that people should also learn how to run/sprint, and by that I don't mean jogging at 7 or 8 min pace. I mean MOVING. High race speeds are fast. You don't learn to run 60.5 second laps, or even 82 second laps, for 12.5 laps by jogging around everyday. If you've been running for a while. especially at a decent volume (25-40+ mpw) then you're likely falling into this trap. It's on thing to get good at plodding along for an hour or so every day, but another to learn to run fast.
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I see. The hardest barrier to break is the 7:30 mark for 5k. Granted, I started at 9:30/mi 2 years ago but I've been stagnant at 7:30/mi...
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On December 31 2012 09:16 Cecil wrote:
I see. The hardest barrier to break is the 7:30 mark for 5k. Granted, I started at 9:30/mi 2 years ago but I've been stagnant at 7:30/mi...
The other thing I'd be curious in is your height and weight, as well as some training background (i,e. miles per week, pace of runs, workouts, etc.)
I'd expect most people to be quite a bit faster in two years than all out 5k in 23:00ish minutes, so lets see if we can figure out what the situation is.
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I'm 6'3" at 195lbs. I usually don't do straight up runs. I'm usually into the mud obstacle events but in order to hit top 10 in those events I need the speed.
EDIT: Forgot to list the weekly workout schedule. I do a 5-10k run on M/W/F while working on upper body on T/R.
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On December 31 2012 09:44 Cecil wrote:
I'm 6'3" at 195lbs. I usually don't do straight up runs. I'm usually into the mud obstacle events but in order to hit top 10 in those events I need the speed.
EDIT: Forgot to list the weekly workout schedule. I do a 5-10k run on M/W/F while working on upper body on T/R.
Have you considered trying a training program? I think that shows the type of work that would help decrease your time and put you closer to placing higher in those events.
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On December 31 2012 09:44 Cecil wrote:
I'm 6'3" at 195lbs. I usually don't do straight up runs. I'm usually into the mud obstacle events but in order to hit top 10 in those events I need the speed.
EDIT: Forgot to list the weekly workout schedule. I do a 5-10k run on M/W/F while working on upper body on T/R.
You're probably not getting any better because you're not exposing your body to new and uncomfortable stimuli. You need to challenge yourself to get faster.
Try to very gradually up your mileage then start adding in one longer run a week then some faster workout stuff later.
Also, do you only strength train your upper body?
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On December 31 2012 12:24 AirbladeOrange wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2012 09:44 Cecil wrote:
I'm 6'3" at 195lbs. I usually don't do straight up runs. I'm usually into the mud obstacle events but in order to hit top 10 in those events I need the speed.
EDIT: Forgot to list the weekly workout schedule. I do a 5-10k run on M/W/F while working on upper body on T/R. You're probably not getting any better because you're not exposing your body to new and uncomfortable stimuli. You need to challenge yourself to get faster. Try to very gradually up your mileage then start adding in one longer run a week then some faster workout stuff later. Also, do you only strength train your upper body?
Yes, i agree wholeheartedly. Doing the same token runs three times a week will benefit you a little bit for a few months. After that the body adapts and you need to change something up to get faster. That can be recovery, pace of runs, workout types, mileage, etc.
I would also add the reason your not running too fast is that your basically....not running. Your doing at best 10-15 mpw, which is really not anything. Maybe an average of 10-15 minutes a day. It's really somewhat like anything else, if you practiced starcraft for 10 minutes a day, would you really expect to improve much?
What I'd personally look to do is over the next month or so get that frequency of running up to 6 days a week (don't have to cut the strength workouts). Then once your comfortable with that new level of running (maybe another month) start adding in some faster work, some progression runs and tempo runs. For you a tempo run is probably 2-3 miles at around 8:00 pace; these are fast, but not so hard they hurt an you really have to push to get through. Progression runs you just start out a little easier than normal and gradually get going till your moving at a fast but tolerable speed. If you feel totally great you can hammer the last minute or two. Another day of the week I would do some fast work, like 10-15x100m FAST (13-16s probably), not all out sprint, but just eased back from there. The goal is form, relaxation, and rhythm at speed. This is not meant to be hard, as you take full recovery, but is all about teaching yourself to run fast, smoothly.
A week might look like this:
Day 1 - Easy run (9:30 pace)
Day 2 - Tempo run (roughly 8:00 pace)
Day 3 - Easy run
Day 4 - Progression run
Day 5 -Easy run
Day 6 - 10-15x100m w/ full recovery (1-2+ min)
Day 7 - OFF
After a month or two of then we can look to add some good intervals and really sharpen on that much stronger, bigger base.
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Thanks for the advice! You're totally right. My body became content at the 7:45/mi to the point where I can have a full conversation. The mental part of it was the only thing putting me down. I've been running w/o a partner for a little over a year now and stagnation occurred because of it. I guess you can say I'm a social runner.
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On January 01 2013 08:33 Cecil wrote:
Thanks for the advice! You're totally right. My body became content at the 7:45/mi to the point where I can have a full conversation. The mental part of it was the only thing putting me down. I've been running w/o a partner for a little over a year now and stagnation occurred because of it. I guess you can say I'm a social runner.
Wait what?
At 7:45 pace you can easily speak in multiple sentences?
If that's true I have no idea what your actually doing in races. Usually being able to converse means a moderate to relaxed effort. Under those conditions you should be able to race a 10k in something like 42 minutes or faster and a 5k in like 20-21 min, depending on just how relaxed you are.
For reference, I run most of my easy runs arouns 7:20-7:45 pace, and just recently ran under 18 for 5k (eq. to 37 10k).
Sounds like your just not racing your races and sandbagging them.
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Hello, I'm back =)
I've had what I think is a shin splint that put me out of running for a little while, but I've started regularly running again. Got new shoes as well because I think my last pair was too small.
The biggest problem so far is just having the patience to stay on treadmill for over 30 minutes, because I just get bored and mentally tired even though my body doesn't feel like it's exerting much.
I also signed up for another half in April.
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On January 01 2013 14:52 Sein wrote:
The biggest problem so far is just having the patience to stay on treadmill for over 30 minutes,
Something great has been invented some time ago, it's called "outside". I hear it's great for running.
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On January 01 2013 20:15 VaySept wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2013 14:52 Sein wrote:
The biggest problem so far is just having the patience to stay on treadmill for over 30 minutes, Something great has been invented some time ago, it's called "outside". I hear it's great for running.
Ya not really sure why you torture yourself this way. I do it for extreme days when there is like a a foot or more of unbroken powder, but aside from that I prefer to run outside (I actually will run workouts on the treadmill if the track is icy/snowy).
90+ minute runs on the treadmill get a bit tedious, even when you have good music.
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EPT
