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I guess I could run 15k on my long runs and go easier the day after, something like 5-6k sounds good.
I've put the hill training during the long runs because I have identified 3 training in the week that might be harder than the normal easy runs ; the hills, the intervals and the tempo run. I wanted to be able to have at least 48 hours between each of these training, so I came up with that schedule. If you think about something else please feel free to help me out.
For intervals I was thinking about some structured fartlek runs, something like 20 minutes of slow jog, 5x 400-1000m hard run with the same distance used for rest (slow jog) and 10 minutes of cooldown. I will add more reps when I feel like my body can take more.
My schedule isn't sunk in cement ; I don't mind skipping a day if my body doesn't feel good enough to run that day. I have been injured in the past and I want to avoid getting injured, I won't let my ego injure me anymore, that's just silly. So if I have to skip a day, I will definitaly skip it.
As for the tempo run, I will have to see how it goes, but I think 8k is a good distance. I have done several 5k tempo runs in the past weeks and it just felt too short. I guess I could add 1k or 2k and run 6-7k. I will have to see when I get there.
Thanks a lot for your insight !
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On September 07 2012 04:49 GuiltyJerk wrote:So I injured my shoulder a few weeks ago, moved into college a week ago and I've gotten more into running (did a little bit before but lifting took priority) and I'm really digging it! :D:D:D:D:D I've definitely made lemonade out of the whole shoulder situation, and heck, maybe I'm a runner after all  Ran(/walked) a 5k today in ~30 minutes  Not bad I'd say :D
Good stuff man! I bet you can do that 5K ALOT faster if you slow the initial pace down so you don't have to walk at all.
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On September 07 2012 05:26 Pellucidity wrote:
I usually feel so good on days that I run, that I decided to try to run everyday.
Sadly today I had quite a bit of pain between the top of my leg and the pubic area,
did I pull a muscle or not do a proper warm up/cooling down? Anyways... I'd like to run
everyday, and I was hoping you guys had some tips as to how to build up to running daily
(I run 2 or 3 times a week now).
Also, a little while back I set a very ambitious goal for myself (to run half a marathon on December 15th),
sadly my average run right now is about 6, maybe 7 km, so I'm not sure how realistic this goal is.
Personally I don't think I'll be able to do it, but I figured I might aswell ask in here if anyone has any ideas
as to how to get me up to 22km in 13 weeks(Mind you, finishing time is not important, 1:20 or 3:20 is all the same to me).
For personal reasons this would be a GREAT triumph for me, but I am a pretty sober person, so unless something
amazing happens I wont be participating in the half marathon (maybe I'll sign up for the 10k, which would also be a great triumph, considering where I came from).
Anyways, I'm rambling.. Thoughts?
The injury is probably just a result of jumping into a little too much, a little too soon; that or you just jerked it weird and it's more of a strain than an overuse injury.
Proper warm up/cooldown is totally unnecessary for most runs. The pace your running should basically BE a WU/CD type of speed, more relaxing than it is stressful. However, I will say that even for easy runs (and especially in the morning) I tend to start off VERY slow (sometimes slower than 12:00 min/mile) and just ease into the pace my body feels like going.
As far as building up, just add a day every week or two until your at 6/7 days per week.
The half is, like Airblade said, probably doable. You'll survive. That said it won't be particularly fun and you definitely run a greater risk of getting yourself injured in the push/fake need to do a bunch of miles and/or long runs to feel prepared. It also is far from the best decision with respect to getting faster/fitness. Basically, I wouldn't go for it unless it's very important to you personally (like the current situation with matthewfoulkes).
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On September 07 2012 05:51 Opponent wrote:
I came up with a weekly running training and I wanted you guys to comment it, here it is :
Sunday : easy run of 8k
Monday : long easy run of 12k with hills
Tuesday : easy run of 8k
Wednesday : Intervals (fartlek type)
Thursday : easy run of 8k
Friday : easy run of 8k
Saturday : tempo run of 8k
Does it seems good ? I'm planning to run 35 miles this week so I think I will be able to take on this schedule in about a month or so when I will be used to the weekly mileage.
I plan to repeat this training for several weeks until I peak, then I will think of another training.
Mostly looks good. Long run can probably be as long as 14 or 15k and be fine. It doesn't need to be any longer though unless your looking to start training for half/full marathon. Ideally long runs would be 90-120 minutes for a 5k/10k guy, but your mileage doesn't really support that much length yet.
What exactly is the plan for the Wednesday fartleks? There is ALOT of different workouts you can do depending on intensity/interval duration/repeat length.
8k is probably a little much for the standard tempo run, unless your cruisin around 5 flat pace . Shoot for a tempo that is about 20-25 minutes in duration. There are other tempo workouts you can do of various distance, but this is a good starting point. The effort should be "comfortably hard". If it takes mental toughness to complete...your doing it wrong. Tempo should feel fast, strong, and rhythmic but never laborious. Usually for a 20-25 minute AnT workout like this a ROUGH pace guideline is starting about 5k+45 seconds/mile and getting down to 5k+25-30s/mile. Again, this is just a guideline if you have ZERO clue where to start. DO NOT RUN THESE AT A TARGET PACE. Tempo's are workouts about feel, they are as much about the physiologic benefits as they are about making faster paces feel smooth and strong...you don't really get any of these benefits if you run tempo's super hard.
Also, unless it's just a super convenient route, try to slightly vary the length of your days. If all you do is run 8km easy every easy day your body gets really good at...running 8km easy. A little variance in distance (say 6-10km) adds a little confusion and lessens the bodies ability to adapt, allowing you to continue to improve.
so be sure that you allow yourself to be flexible in your schedule. I used to have a strict training plan and I'd feel guilty and discouraged if I wasn't able to stick to the plan exactly. That's another reason why planning 1 day every week or 2 off can help. If you feel sick or are just unable to run on any given day its easy to just say it's okay, I'll use it as my day off.
QFE
It's also totally okay to just take a day off, scrap an interval workout and run easy, or cut a run short if your not feeling up to it. If you don't recover, you cannot improve. I actually did that today in fact, was planning to run 10+ this afternoon, got out, was feeling tired from yesterdays interval work and just decided to shut it down, walked back the last few miles.
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On September 07 2012 05:26 Pellucidity wrote:
I usually feel so good on days that I run, that I decided to try to run everyday.
Sadly today I had quite a bit of pain between the top of my leg and the pubic area,
did I pull a muscle or not do a proper warm up/cooling down? Anyways... I'd like to run
everyday, and I was hoping you guys had some tips as to how to build up to running daily
(I run 2 or 3 times a week now).
Also, a little while back I set a very ambitious goal for myself (to run half a marathon on December 15th),
sadly my average run right now is about 6, maybe 7 km, so I'm not sure how realistic this goal is.
Personally I don't think I'll be able to do it, but I figured I might aswell ask in here if anyone has any ideas
as to how to get me up to 22km in 13 weeks(Mind you, finishing time is not important, 1:20 or 3:20 is all the same to me).
For personal reasons this would be a GREAT triumph for me, but I am a pretty sober person, so unless something
amazing happens I wont be participating in the half marathon (maybe I'll sign up for the 10k, which would also be a great triumph, considering where I came from).
Anyways, I'm rambling.. Thoughts?
just push as hard as you can pellucidity, i'm currently training for a marathon on october 14th, i have been upping my long runs by huge amounts, realistically that is only a jump of like a 1 mile increase every single week, that isn't that hard, if you aren't looking to set a time specific goal, then what you set out to acheive is more than doable, what you said about the 10k, scratch that i say, go big, half marathon is the first distance that is truely long, although be very careful, my marathon training is currently leaving me very much on the edge of injury, but the mileage and speed increase i need is somewhat more drastic than yours, just push yourself to put as much mileage as you can, run like a minimum of 5 mile short runs try to do that in the morning daily or something, and once a week, or whenever you feel ambitious set off for a long run, i would suggest putting in some grass sessions if you are rapidly increasing your mileage as it will be much better on your joints. pay close attention to your running form aswell, this will help avoid injury especially when pushing your body to its running limits.
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On September 05 2012 09:18 dudeman001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 06:37 matthewfoulkes wrote:
officially signed up for my marathon. No way back, looks like the only way is forward. Btw, what kind of terrain is the marathon? I'm just wondering if your training reflects the course you'll be running on.
its a road race i don't train so much road at the moment, but i move to leeds(big city) for uni tomorrow which will let me swim on my days off and it will also let me train at running long city runs.
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Opponent, have a rest day and do cross training.
Put a rest day after your paced run and make sure the easy day after your interval day is indeed easy and a recovery run.
So maybe change easy run after interval to low intensity high duration cycling. You can even think about one more day of cross training. It helps you get in more volume or cardio training because with running often the impact on the joints muscles are a limiting factor.
As for the distances, they depend on what distances you are used to running now. If these distances aren't what you are used to right now, slowly grow into that many miles a week. Indeed 8 miles on an easy day is usually not something that helps you recover. Even when you run slowly at first, your heart rate will start to drift into a higher zone which is not beneficial to recovery.
A heart rate monitor also helps making sure your high intensity days are intense enough and your easy days are easy enough, which for many people is a problem.
Also, consider putting in one more rest day every once in a while. Rest days is when you improve. The exercise merely gives you something to recover from and the recovering from hard training itself is what equals to enhancing your performance.
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On September 07 2012 21:20 matthewfoulkes wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 05:26 Pellucidity wrote:
I usually feel so good on days that I run, that I decided to try to run everyday.
Sadly today I had quite a bit of pain between the top of my leg and the pubic area,
did I pull a muscle or not do a proper warm up/cooling down? Anyways... I'd like to run
everyday, and I was hoping you guys had some tips as to how to build up to running daily
(I run 2 or 3 times a week now).
Also, a little while back I set a very ambitious goal for myself (to run half a marathon on December 15th),
sadly my average run right now is about 6, maybe 7 km, so I'm not sure how realistic this goal is.
Personally I don't think I'll be able to do it, but I figured I might aswell ask in here if anyone has any ideas
as to how to get me up to 22km in 13 weeks(Mind you, finishing time is not important, 1:20 or 3:20 is all the same to me).
For personal reasons this would be a GREAT triumph for me, but I am a pretty sober person, so unless something
amazing happens I wont be participating in the half marathon (maybe I'll sign up for the 10k, which would also be a great triumph, considering where I came from).
Anyways, I'm rambling.. Thoughts?
just push as hard as you can pellucidity, i'm currently training for a marathon on october 14th, i have been upping my long runs by huge amounts, realistically that is only a jump of like a 1 mile increase every single week, that isn't that hard, if you aren't looking to set a time specific goal, then what you set out to acheive is more than doable, wh at you said about the 10k, scratch that i say, go big, half marathon is the first distance that is truely long, although be very careful, my marathon training is currently leaving me very much on the edge of injury, but the mileage and speed increase i need is somewhat more drastic than yours, just push yourself to put as much mileage as you can, run like a minimum of 5 mile short runs try to do that in the morning daily or something, and once a week, or whenever you feel ambitious set off for a long run, i would suggest putting in some grass sessions if you are rapidly increasing your mileage as it will be much better on your joints. pay close attention to your running form aswell, this will help avoid injury especially when pushing your body to its running limits.
Sorry, but what you wrote there is horrible advice.
The training your doing right now is crash training to be able to survive a marathon. Training this way is neither the most efficient, nor is it the best way to improve your fitness.
If your goal is to become a fast, fit runner it's a MUCH better decision to start off with shorter distance first (and much smarter from an injury standpoint), whether it be 800, 1500, or 5k. Not only are these events shorter and thus more easily ran off less miles, you are also more able to do the training for these events as the workouts are much smaller in volume than say: marathon workouts.
Moreover, there is the issue of speed. Training for the marathon, or even a half, just to get through it teaches your body to do one thing, plod along for a long time at a slow pace. You don't learn how to run faster and thus don't get much more fit. While your obviously in better shape than when you started, this overall gives the illusion of fitness, rather than actually getting fitter. You might improve in your ability to plod slowly at long distance, but typically people develop bad form and mindsets and then struggle tremendously to get faster (and which shorter distance) when they decide they want to. There is a reason why most elite runners don't come to the marathon until they are 25+ and have been running 1500/5000/10000 on the track for a long time.
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On September 07 2012 14:53 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 05:51 Opponent wrote:
I came up with a weekly running training and I wanted you guys to comment it, here it is :
Sunday : easy run of 8k
Monday : long easy run of 12k with hills
Tuesday : easy run of 8k
Wednesday : Intervals (fartlek type)
Thursday : easy run of 8k
Friday : easy run of 8k
Saturday : tempo run of 8k
Does it seems good ? I'm planning to run 35 miles this week so I think I will be able to take on this schedule in about a month or so when I will be used to the weekly mileage.
I plan to repeat this training for several weeks until I peak, then I will think of another training. Mostly looks good. Long run can probably be as long as 14 or 15k and be fine. It doesn't need to be any longer though unless your looking to start training for half/full marathon. Ideally long runs would be 90-120 minutes for a 5k/10k guy, but your mileage doesn't really support that much length yet. What exactly is the plan for the Wednesday fartleks? There is ALOT of different workouts you can do depending on intensity/interval duration/repeat length. 8k is probably a little much for the standard tempo run, unless your cruisin around 5 flat pace . Shoot for a tempo that is about 20-25 minutes in duration. There are other tempo workouts you can do of various distance, but this is a good starting point. The effort should be "comfortably hard". If it takes mental toughness to complete...your doing it wrong. Tempo should feel fast, strong, and rhythmic but never laborious. Usually for a 20-25 minute AnT workout like this a ROUGH pace guideline is starting about 5k+45 seconds/mile and getting down to 5k+25-30s/mile. Again, this is just a guideline if you have ZERO clue where to start. DO NOT RUN THESE AT A TARGET PACE. Tempo's are workouts about feel, they are as much about the physiologic benefits as they are about making faster paces feel smooth and strong...you don't really get any of these benefits if you run tempo's super hard. Also, unless it's just a super convenient route, try to slightly vary the length of your days. If all you do is run 8km easy every easy day your body gets really good at...running 8km easy. A little variance in distance (say 6-10km) adds a little confusion and lessens the bodies ability to adapt, allowing you to continue to improve. Show nested quote +
so be sure that you allow yourself to be flexible in your schedule. I used to have a strict training plan and I'd feel guilty and discouraged if I wasn't able to stick to the plan exactly. That's another reason why planning 1 day every week or 2 off can help. If you feel sick or are just unable to run on any given day its easy to just say it's okay, I'll use it as my day off.
QFE It's also totally okay to just take a day off, scrap an interval workout and run easy, or cut a run short if your not feeling up to it. If you don't recover, you cannot improve. I actually did that today in fact, was planning to run 10+ this afternoon, got out, was feeling tired from yesterdays interval work and just decided to shut it down, walked back the last few miles.
Thx a lot for the insight ! I have answered a couple of your questions in a post at the top of this page if you want to take a look.
I Will make sure to lower my distances in the tempo runs and vary the distances in the easy runs, that seems good.
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On September 07 2012 13:56 Opponent wrote:
I guess I could run 15k on my long runs and go easier the day after, something like 5-6k sounds good.
If it feels like too much you don't have to go that far, but it's probably reasonably supported if you choose to. I'd trend toward the run being a little longer now, shortening just a little as you get into the more intense intervals leading up to your race.
I've put the hill training during the long runs because I have identified 3 training in the week that might be harder than the normal easy runs ; the hills, the intervals and the tempo run. I wanted to be able to have at least 48 hours between each of these training, so I came up with that schedule. If you think about something else please feel free to help me out.
I think hilly long runs are fine, just don't hammer the hills and run long as that can get a little brutal. As always if your feeling good I think it's perfectly fine on long runs if your feeling good to pick it up and run an aerobically strong (not hard) pace for the last few miles.
For intervals I was thinking about some structured fartlek runs, something like 20 minutes of slow jog, 5x 400-1000m hard run with the same distance used for rest (slow jog) and 10 minutes of cooldown. I will add more reps when I feel like my body can take more.
Same interval distance as that used for the repeat is really, really large amount of recovery. That works well if your trying to do fairly non-stressful, fast workouts for economy. A good example would be Xx400 @ mile race pace w/400m jog (approx 2-3 min recovery). It's complete recovery, and the rep isn't so long it's stressful. These are good workouts for getting turnover and efficiency at speeds. More of a neuromuscular workout than an aerobic/anaerobic stimulating one.
*
My schedule isn't sunk in cement ; I don't mind skipping a day if my body doesn't feel good enough to run that day. I have been injured in the past and I want to avoid getting injured, I won't let my ego injure me anymore, that's just silly. So if I have to skip a day, I will definitaly skip it.
Good. You'll go far with this mindset.
And yes, I agree it's silly but it's not hard to do. You get caught up in shooting for goals, putting in a bunch of training for a race and then BAM. Injury. It can be tough to take the time off, especially if your close to your goal races. Definitely the smart decision unless your hell bent on glory in one particular season or something.
As for the tempo run, I will have to see how it goes, but I think 8k is a good distance. I have done several 5k tempo runs in the past weeks and it just felt too short. I guess I could add 1k or 2k and run 6-7k. I will have to see when I get there.
20-25 minutes is really a good length. You can do longer tempo runs of 40 minutes (usually a little slower than HMP) or even 60-75+ minutes (roughly marathon pace) as well, but the shorter ones for now will be more comfortable (and more race specific).
*I'm going to write a whole post here covering the jist of intervals/hard sessions since people have been asking about them
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Types of Running Workouts
Tempo Runs - Anyone that's been following the thread knows I talk about these alot. This is a workout done somewhere between anaerobic threshold (AnT) and aerobic threshold (AT) depending on the length. The "classic" tempo, and what people mean 95% of the time when they use tempo is a run of about 20-25 minutes @ around roughly 10M race pace, which corresponds to an effort that feels comfortably hard. It isn't easy, and you'd be happy to slow down...but it shouldn't hurt, be hard, or require mental toughness.
There are other types of "tempo" runs. One is cruise intervals, which is a broken tempo run. You might run 6xmile with a one minute slow jog every mile, or 3x2 mile with a 2 minute slow jog. This allows the intensity to remain constant over a longer distance, enabling the runner to spend a greater time in the run at that high end tempo pace.
Although not a traditional tempo run, many longer runs at a sustained pace are often called tempos. Such examples could be a 40 minute run at a little slower than half-marathon pace, or a 60-75+ minute run at roughly marathon pace.
Purpose: Tempo runs have two functions. 1) they reach efficiency at slightly higher speeds. You learn to be more relaxed, smooth, and economical at higher speeds. Put another way, you're trying to make fast be easy. That's why tempo runs should be ALWAYS an effort and NEVER a pace. 2)They help the body learn to buffer excess acid that is created when running at higher intensities. This ends up raising the lactate threshold allowing your body to produce less lactate at higher speeds which = faster running. As an example an elite runner might be at 2-4mmol/L running at 4:30 pace, whereas a beginner might have the same lactate value at a pace of 8:00 min/mile.
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Interval Training - This sort of training is characterized by relatively intense workbouts (the repeat), followed by periods of recovery (the interval). They are absolutely necessary to run fast, but at the same time are the most stressful on the body, require the most recovery time, and can only really be done for a few months before the benefits are maximized.
Types of Intervals
- 1) Long(er) Repeats (400-2000m+) w/short intervals - The idea here is essentially high level aerobic work as well as a degree of speed/comfort at race pace development. The recovery is basically intended to be just long enough to allow you to do the next rep at the same pace as the one before it. As a general rule of thumb, reps at 3k pace get equal recovery, 5k pace about a 3:2 recovery, and 10k pace reps 2:1 or less. In general, the workout feels progressively harder as each recovery (b/c not complete) bring you closer and closer to oxygen debt and the need for anaerobic support. Racing can somewhat take the place of these workouts, but these allow for a much greater duration at upper aerobic limits. For example if one if running 5k in 20:00 that's 20 minutes spent working at this effort (generally a little less because you do rely heavily on anaerobic component at the end of races). If you do a session of 6x1000m in 4:00 w/2:00 jog recovery that is 36 minutes spent at the same intensity.
These long repeat w/short intervals are the most important interval sessions generally. You can get benefits out of them often for as long as 3 months.
- 2) Medium Length Repeats w/ moderate intervals - These are your anaerobic capacity workouts. They massively aid in allowing the body to buffer and remove excess H+ (acid) and can also help with speed tolerance. Recovery time will probably be at least 2-3 minutes per 400m. It shouldn't be a complete recovery, but you should be returning close to baseline in terms of HR/feel/etc. Pace ranges will likely be 3k for longer reps, and mile or faster for shorter reps.
- 3) Short Repeats w/long recovery - These are your speed sessions. They are mechanical workouts that develop turnover, strength, coordination, and form. These are run very near max speed, not quite sprinting but getting close to it. Think 800m pace on the 400m reps, and potentially as fast as 400m pace for 100/200 reps. The recoveries are long, often 2-3+ times the length of the interval. You want enough recovery the workout isn't challenging and you can do each rep at the same high speed as the one before.
Numbers 1/2 can be done for several months before benefits begin to decrease and it becomes time to return to base work before again resuming interval work. Number 3 is generally only needed a few times in a season (usually as goal race date approaches to sharpen up the speed and really is only particularly important for guys racing the 800/1500/1600/mile.
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Other Workouts
Long Runs - Long runs are aerobic development runs. They develop the mechanical strength of the body to resist the impact of running, and greatly enhance aerobic function particularly the increase in mitochondria and in increased capillary bed density. Long runs are generally 20-25% of a runners weekly mileage. Runs longer than this can be done when training for longer events (half marathon, marathons, ultras) but as a general rule isn't worth it and is overall too stressful on the body increasing injury risks and frequently compromising other "quality" sessions. Once a week is a good frequency for a long run. and they can be run several ways. One way is just as a standard run at an easy pace. Another is the "fast finish" long run where you run easy for most of the run, then with somewhere between 800m-one mile to go pick it up hard, finishing the last bit at 5k-10k race pace. Then there is the progressive long run in which the runner starts out very slow, reaches a typical easy pace by midway, and eventually finds himself running a "high end aerobic effort" (roughly MP) for the last 1/4 or so of the run. The final type would be the steady long run, which is basically a more intense version of the standard long run, and is probably run closer to 90-95% of MP.
There are alot of other varieties of the long run that can be done that are much more intense than those listed above, but those tend to be marathon specific long runs and thus challenging workouts in a marathon cycle, not long runs good for general base training.
Fartlek - Swedish for "speed play". Basically intervals. Can be structured or unstructured. Unstructured fartleks are completely spontaneous runs and can be quite fun. You just pick a target and run to it at whatever pace you feel like. Then jog easily until you feel like going to another target. Targets can be as short as sprints to objects 40m away, or as long as a sustained push for a mile to that cellular tower in the distance. Structured fartleks are basically intervals on the road and would be things like 2 ON / 1 OFF for the middle 5 miles of a run. The intensity of the ON/OFF as well as the duration is up to the runner.
Hills - Hills are often called "intervals in disguise". They are great for strength, aerobic capacity, and good form development. You can incorporate hills in several ways. The easiest is just running a hilly route at a standard, easy/steady pace. You can also do a hill fartlek in which you attack the hills and coast the downhills for recovery. Finally, one can do a "dedicated" hill workout in which you find a hill of various lengths (100m-800m+) and steepness and run hard up the hill, jogging easily back down. This is a great transition to interval work as the hills begin to prepare your body for more intense work without quite the same intense pounding stress as you would have running flat surfaces like the roads/track.
Sprints - Good for distance runners to do from time to time. The least stressful is basic hill sprints which consist of 4-10x8-10second sprints up a steep hill. Maxmimum recovery (5+ minutes) should always be taken to ensure you can do each one with good form and maximum intensity. Various track sprints can be incorporated as well, such as 50m accel -> 50m sprint -> 50 "stride out", flying 30s/60s, etc.
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On September 07 2012 14:37 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 04:49 GuiltyJerk wrote:So I injured my shoulder a few weeks ago, moved into college a week ago and I've gotten more into running (did a little bit before but lifting took priority) and I'm really digging it! :D:D:D:D:D I've definitely made lemonade out of the whole shoulder situation, and heck, maybe I'm a runner after all Ran(/walked) a 5k today in ~30 minutes Not bad I'd say :D Good stuff man! I bet you can do that 5K ALOT faster if you slow the initial pace down so you don't have to walk at all.
Yeah I didn't initially plan on doing a 5k (I run a loop around campus that's 1.55 miles) but after loop 1 I felt ready to do some more so I did another But thanks for the advice! :D I'll definitely start taking it a little easier on the outset
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Wow, that post sums up most of what I needed to know about basics, great post ! +10
I will take your advice and run tempo runs at a more or less 5k +/- 20 sec pace for about 20-25 minutes. I used to do my tempo runs at a slower pace for a longer amount of time (80 % of max heart rate for 30-40 minutes). I think that new pace will help me increase my average speed in easy runs and support a higher speed during real races.
As for intervals, I Think I will aim for x reps of 1000-1600 meters at mile pace followed by a slow jog, I will aim for a 2:1 run/recovery ratio. I don't know how many reps I can pull off at first, but I will gradually add more as I improve. How many reps should I aim for at first ; Is there a minimum amount of reps I have to be able to do in order to get an effective workout ? I feel like 3 reps will probably get me exhausted right now.
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On September 08 2012 03:36 Opponent wrote:
Wow, that post sums up most of what I needed to know about basics, great post ! +10
I will take your advice and run tempo runs at a more or less 5k +/- 20 sec pace for about 20-25 minutes. I used to do my tempo runs at a slower pace for a longer amount of time (80 % of max heart rate for 30-40 minutes). I think that new pace will help me increase my average speed in easy runs and support a higher speed during real races.
As for intervals, I Think I will aim for x reps of 1000-1600 meters at mile pace followed by a slow jog, I will aim for a 2:1 run/recovery ratio. I don't know how many reps I can pull off at first, but I will gradually add more as I improve. How many reps should I aim for at first ; Is there a minimum amount of reps I have to be able to do in order to get an effective workout ? I feel like 3 reps will probably get me exhausted right now.
Eh...I think you missed the capitalized words in my synopsis of tempo runs. If your talking about running a specific pace in a tempo run...your doing it wrong. Period.
The pace guidelines are there ONLY if you have zero clue what might feel comfortably hard. If your going to do anything with them start out at like 5k+45 and let your body settle in on what feels fast and smooth. 5K + 20s would be too fast anyway...almost 10k pace probably.
I Think I will aim for x reps of 1000-1600 meters at mile pace followed by a slow jog, I will aim for a 2:1 run/recovery ratio.
3x1600m at mile pace? That sounds...impossible. Especially being newer to interval work I would start out with mile pace stuff being 200m reps with good recovery (maybe 1-2 minutes), and gradually build to 400-600m repeats. Use these not as hard workouts, but just fast workouts to get smooth at pace. You don't really need the super hard, fast anaerobic stuff until right when your trying to peak.
For your bread and butter intervals you could start with 400s at 5k pace with about 2 minutes recovery (this should feel borderline easy) and keep progressing the rep length till your running "k's" or even 1200m at 5k pace off about 2 min recovery.
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Yeah when I said I was going to do my tempo runs at +/- 20 sec of my 5k pace that was only an indicator, that's not meant to be a strict and rigid speed. I usually feel pushed and good at that pace. By the way I run my 5k at a decent soft/hard speed, I'm not completely exhausted at the end of my run, so that might be a 5k pace +45-60 secs for you.
I will follow your guidelines for intervals, but I think I will start at more than 200m since I did a bit of laddering in my longer runs and that felt quite good at distances of 1200-1600m with hills and my breaks were quite short, like 20-30 secs. So I might start at 400m and end at 1200m as you suggested.
I'll keep you informed of my progression for the next weeks. I can already tell I'm improving a lot only by raising the amount of weekly mileage I'm doing. As a comparison, I was doing 15 miles a month ago and had a 5k time of 28 minutes. I'm now doing 30-35 miles and i'm having a 22:30 5k time.
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On September 08 2012 10:52 Opponent wrote:
Yeah when I said I was going to do my tempo runs at +/- 20 sec of my 5k pace that was only an indicator, that's not meant to be a strict and rigid speed. I usually feel pushed and good at that pace. By the way I run my 5k at a decent soft/hard speed, I'm not completely exhausted at the end of my run, so that might be a 5k pace +45-60 secs for you.
I will follow your guidelines for intervals, but I think I will start at more than 200m since I did a bit of laddering in my longer runs and that felt quite good at distances of 1200-1600m with hills and my breaks were quite short, like 20-30 secs. So I might start at 400m and end at 1200m as you suggested.
I'll keep you informed of my progression for the next weeks. I can already tell I'm improving a lot only by raising the amount of weekly mileage I'm doing. As a comparison, I was doing 15 miles a month ago and had a 5k time of 28 minutes. I'm now doing 30-35 miles and i'm having a 22:30 5k time.
If you were doing 1200-1600m intervals with 30 second recovery that's not even remotely close to mile pace. If that was 10k pace that would still be a hellacious workout and probably impossible at 5k pace. To be honest what you were doing was likely just a broken tempo run a.k.a. cruise intervals.
I still don't think your quite understanding what I am getting at with these intervals. To help conceptualize think of intervals as speed intervals (800m-3k pace), longer, race pace "aerobic intervals" (3k-10k pace), and super long (mile+) tempo intensity cruise intervals. Longer isn't necessarily better for some of these. For instance, doing mile pace work (while training for 5k) is primarily used to help make 5k pace feel smoother and develop a better running economy. That sort of workout isn't supposed to be difficult or stressful as the goal is relaxed speed with good form which is tough to do when your running really hard. As such, interval distance are kept short (200-400m) as any longer begins to get difficult. Mile pace over 800m is NOT easy (that CAN be a later season sharpening type workout but certainly is not needed now). For this reason the recoveries are also kept long. The goal here isn't to "work hard" but to "run fast".
You felt good at distances of 1200-1600m because the pace wasn't that quick. I can promise you mile pace repeats of 1200 (even 800m) would feel anything but good and the intervals I recommended starting at a 200-400 distance were more geared toward the 800m-mile pace work.
So, with the idea in mind that your goal race is 5k, you should be doing a reasonable amount of 5k pace work, which it will be best to start at 400m intervals with maybe 2 minutes rest. That won't be a particularly challening workout, but over time you build it up to 1000m+ in length w/same recovery and that very challenging workout that gets "completeable" as your fitness improves. I know that 12x400m at 5k pace w/2 min recovery isn't a tough workout, but you haven't done much in the way of intervals before, and easing in reduces the risk of over stressing the body and equally as important allows for a progression in your workouts throughout the season. If you started with 5x1200m at 5k pace w/2min recovery...where do you go from there? By starting shorter interval with more recovery you give yourself a progression route and allow yourself to ease into that kind of work.
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just went for my first run in my new city, decided to be a little sensible and only go for a light hour run, and i'm definitely not regretting it, went at about 8 minute miles it felt like, maybe slightly faster, but it was a pretty nice jog, and my ankles and shins and knees have definitely benefitted from my week of recovery since i last ran a long run, my 20 miler really did me in for a while, going to cut down to an 18 miler this week, then work up a couple miles weekly, along with 6-10 miles daily to get my mileage up and have my marathon pace feel comfortable, going to try to get my 10 mile runs done at 7~ minute miles to make my 8 minute mileage marathon pace seem easy. we will see how shit progresses though.
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Running a 5k for shits and giggles on Saturday. Any tips?
I don't run; however, I do get enough conditioning through weightlifting and other recreation to ensure this won't be very hard at all. Any tips on preparation to ensure I do my best?
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EPT
