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On September 10 2012 09:44 stevarius wrote:
Running a 5k for shits and giggles on Saturday. Any tips?
I don't run; however, I do get enough conditioning through weightlifting and other recreation to ensure this won't be very hard at all. Any tips on preparation to ensure I do my best?
Find a reasonable pace at which you can run and hold it. Don't try to run fast or you will break and will have to walk.
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My run is in a week now. Should I take it easy this week? Most of the training schedules I've read suggest fairly light workload + taking the day before (or even two days prior) off.
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On September 10 2012 08:34 matthewfoulkes wrote:
just went for my first run in my new city, decided to be a little sensible and only go for a light hour run, and i'm definitely not regretting it, went at about 8 minute miles it felt like, maybe slightly faster, but it was a pretty nice jog, and my ankles and shins and knees have definitely benefitted from my week of recovery since i last ran a long run, my 20 miler really did me in for a while, going to cut down to an 18 miler this week, then work up a couple miles weekly, along with 6-10 miles daily to get my mileage up and have my marathon pace feel comfortable, going to try to get my 10 mile runs done at 7~ minute miles to make my 8 minute mileage marathon pace seem easy. we will see how shit progresses though.
If your able to run ten milers in 70 minutes then there is a damn good chance you'll meet that 3:30 goal. Even 4/5 miles in 38/45 minutes at a pace that is challenging, but comfortable indicates that you have the fitness to run 3:30, with a bit of a "cushion" so you don't have to be going balls to the wall right from the start.
Looks like your progressing well though, and it's definitely going to be interesting to see how this turns out.
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On September 10 2012 14:21 Sein wrote:
My run is in a week now. Should I take it easy this week? Most of the training schedules I've read suggest fairly light workload + taking the day before (or even two days prior) off.
I guess it depends if it's your main focus or just a training race or something in between. What always worked for me was taking the day before the day before the race off. So if your race is on Sunday take Friday off and run short and easy on Saturday. Doing a few strides after an easy run can help keep your legs feeling tuned up and ready to go by race day (best used the day before the race). But the most important thing to do is just to take it easy and do what feels good.
Gooooooood luck.
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Got my first ever PR - aka did my first ever race (half-marathon)! 1:42:51 - (My goal was under 1:45 so I'm thrilled).
I started at a super good pace ~4:35min/km and held it until about the 12th km at which point the race got SUPER hilly! I thought I'd laugh hills off as I thought I have quite a few hills on my regular training. But the hills on this course were 5 x the size of the biggest I've faced. The race was in Canmore, AB which is in the Rocky Mountains so I guess I should have known better (near Banff if anyone knows that). Anyways.... My pace dropped to shit for 6k until some person, who didn't seem fit at all, passed me and put me into overdrive. Finished the last 3k with a good pace (close to my starting pace). Legs are dead today!
I swear I could have gone sub 1:40 if it weren't for that middle part - there's always next time.
Thanks for everyone in this thread for helping me figure this running thing out (somewhat). Looking forward to following a more proper training plan for the next one that includes invertals and tempo runs etc.
A tip for first timers: do not eat a high-fiber breakfast on the day of your race. It is really hard clenching your checks and running at the same time. My race would have been more enjoyable if I didn't have to worry about my intestines possibly blowing up every 15 mins or so.
If anyone cares: I started training mid June for a work 6k run - basically started running. I went from running 2-3 x per week to about 60k / week the last two weeks (I found this thread which helped). I saw there was a person earlier who asked if running a half was realistic by December - as you can see I did it in under 3 months (2 if you count when I got serious about it). I seem to have gone on the same path as you - I jumped to quickly and injured myself. Backed off for a couple of days and then put on a lot (relative term) of easy km's until by body could handle the amount. Then I kept up the km's but added some harder runs a couple times a week (Reading L_Master's descriptions, I now realize that I did a total of 1 interval training session, 1 fartlek session and several tempo runs).
I think you're best bet is to run, train and have fun. If in a couple months, you're running a good amount of k's per week and you're weekly long run is going well, then why not run the half marathon? If you're having a hard time adding the k's due to injury and your struggling to up your long run, don't force it. There will be plently of HM runs in the future. Everyone's different. If you read the first page, you can see that there are some that can go from 0 to 100km/week and be fine and there are those that can't up their weekly by more than 10% without injury.
PS- My new goal is sub 1:35 HM by summer 2013. I'm gonna work on getting my speed up for the 5k I have coming up first though.
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not going to lie i actually love this thread, everyone here is so positive and helpful, even with my stupid as hell goals, and my dumb approach to running, i can't wait til after i finish my marathon and i can get down to racing stuff like 5/10k :D, hopefully make the track team at my uni, which would be an amazing feat for someone who has never been successful as a sportsmen, let alone at university standards, but i will have to continue to work at it asmuch as i can for this i feel, but soon i should get access to a swimming pool as soon as i work out where im getting money for the campus gym facilitys.
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oh yea another thing i've been struggling with since i moved away from home and trying to keep up with running, is my diet, i'm finding it really hard at the moment to eat enough food to provide myself with all the calories I need to keep going, does anyone have any good student tips, for eating healthily and heartily for my marathon training, all the while on a student budget. brown rice has been my staple for the first few days :D
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On September 11 2012 00:01 caznitch wrote:
Got my first ever PR - aka did my first ever race (half-marathon)! 1:42:51 - (My goal was under 1:45 so I'm thrilled).
I started at a super good pace ~4:35min/km and held it until about the 12th km at which point the race got SUPER hilly! I thought I'd laugh hills off as I thought I have quite a few hills on my regular training. But the hills on this course were 5 x the size of the biggest I've faced. The race was in Canmore, AB which is in the Rocky Mountains so I guess I should have known better (near Banff if anyone knows that). Anyways.... My pace dropped to shit for 6k until some person, who didn't seem fit at all, passed me and put me into overdrive. Finished the last 3k with a good pace (close to my starting pace). Legs are dead today!
I swear I could have gone sub 1:40 if it weren't for that middle part - there's always next time.
Thanks for everyone in this thread for helping me figure this running thing out (somewhat). Looking forward to following a more proper training plan for the next one that includes invertals and tempo runs etc.
A tip for first timers: do not eat a high-fiber breakfast on the day of your race. It is really hard clenching your checks and running at the same time. My race would have been more enjoyable if I didn't have to worry about my intestines possibly blowing up every 15 mins or so.
If anyone cares: I started training mid June for a work 6k run - basically started running. I went from running 2-3 x per week to about 60k / week the last two weeks (I found this thread which helped). I saw there was a person earlier who asked if running a half was realistic by December - as you can see I did it in under 3 months (2 if you count when I got serious about it). I seem to have gone on the same path as you - I jumped to quickly and injured myself. Backed off for a couple of days and then put on a lot (relative term) of easy km's until by body could handle the amount. Then I kept up the km's but added some harder runs a couple times a week (Reading L_Master's descriptions, I now realize that I did a total of 1 interval training session, 1 fartlek session and several tempo runs).
I think you're best bet is to run, train and have fun. If in a couple months, you're running a good amount of k's per week and you're weekly long run is going well, then why not run the half marathon? If you're having a hard time adding the k's due to injury and your struggling to up your long run, don't force it. There will be plently of HM runs in the future. Everyone's different. If you read the first page, you can see that there are some that can go from 0 to 100km/week and be fine and there are those that can't up their weekly by more than 10% without injury.
PS- My new goal is sub 1:35 HM by summer 2013. I'm gonna work on getting my speed up for the 5k I have coming up first though.
That's a pretty darn solid debut, especially on what sounds like a hilly course. Depending on nastiness of hills that could be worth anywhere from 2-5 minutes faster probably.
If your really looking to improve I'd consider racing some 5k/10k for your next real training cycle. It'll help you get used to short high intensity and develop your speed, which will serve you well for next half. The pace will seem much more relaxed when your used to running 20-40 sec/mile faster.
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On September 11 2012 05:02 matthewfoulkes wrote:
oh yea another thing i've been struggling with since i moved away from home and trying to keep up with running, is my diet, i'm finding it really hard at the moment to eat enough food to provide myself with all the calories I need to keep going, does anyone have any good student tips, for eating healthily and heartily for my marathon training, all the while on a student budget. brown rice has been my staple for the first few days :D
Do you have any sort of store near you where you can buy in bulk? I live in Canada where they have a "Bulk Barn" which is a small store that has huge bins of mostly dried food/spices. The per/kg prices are usually way (sometimes by a factor of 10) cheaper than grocery stores. I've recently switched from eating cereal in the mornings to eating steel cut oates. They have a ton of fibre/protein/carbs and costs about $1.50/kg which makes it way cheaper than cereal (also leaves you full longer I find). I've also purchased about 5kgs of every type of bean/lentil/rice/pasta they have so that my pantry is always stocked with food.
Brown rice is ok. Mix it up with quinoa and cous cous (my favorite).
Healthy nutrient and calorie dense foods I like:
- Beans (in chilli, as a part of pasta, with veggies, hummus - homemade is easy and cheap).
- Oats (I like steel cut but all are good. Be wary of instant types as they usually refine the good fiber out of them - check nutritional info)
- Whole grains (barley, bulgar, kamut, cracked whole wheat - add to soups, make for b-fast, look up recipies)
- Quinoa (in lieu of pasta/rice.)
- Greek yogurt (get the real thing, and not the highly processed 0% fat etc. The real thing has a ton of calories).
- Soup - You don't really need a recipe if you know how to make basic stock. Get the biggest pot you have and add everything (almost) you have in your fridge and pantry - carrots, potatoes, celery, bran, quinoa, soy, meat whatever. Split it up in old yogort containers and freeze the rest. You now have soup whenever you don't feel like cooking.
Beware: everything I've listed is bound to increase your daily bowel movements. I have an office with a fan.
EDIT - this is probably region specific but where I live, bananas are the cheapest fruit you can get so I suggest you stock up. Great way to get your potassium levels back up too. I forgot to add "nuts" to the list of calorie dense foods I like. I add almonds to my b-day cereal, almonds to any salad, snack on peanut butter (homemade).
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Okay so, I'm thinking it would be pretty fun is everyone posted their weekly training each Sun/Mon. Gives everyone something to discuss, and makes it really easy to get feedback if people want and you really get to see a good idea of how different people are approaching their training.
I'll start from last week:
Goal Race: 5k Mid November
Next Race: 9/15 or 9/22 5k
Finally over being sick this week! Felt nice to run without feeling sluggish, stuffed up, and headachy.
Mon: PM - 4.5 progressive (7:05) + 10x8-10 sec hill sprints
Tues: PM - 9.5 easy (7:45)
Wed: AM - 3.5 easy (7:40) / PM - 4,3,3,2,2,2,1,1,1,1 min ON/OFF + 2M for WU/CD
Thurs: AM - 5 slow (8:40) / PM - 7.5 easy (7:55)
Fri: AM - 5.5 easy/hill (7:35) / PM - 7 (7:30)
Sat: AM - 6 Manitou Incline/Barr / PM - 3.5M tempo (6:21) + 3M for WU/CD
Sun: PM - 7 easy (7:45)
Total: 72
Fartlek: Workout with a local running group. Pretty fun to get out there and motor with people around and above my ability. Workout was okay, with the recovery being quite long. Still, having not done much in the way of repeats it felt fairly challenging. Since it was just on trials I don't know the exact pace but the garmin was giving roughly 5:35-5:40 pace, and I worked it down from probably about 5:20 to low 5/very high 4 on the the 1 minute reps.
Sunday: Manitou Incline is basically a giant ass hill. 2200' vertical feet gain in approx one mile for an average of 44% vertical grade, w/steep sections at 60-70%. Done with a group so most of it was at a relaxed effort for me, but went hard the last 10 minutes or so and came down Barr at a good clip.
Evening tempo was glorious. Given I'd run somewhat hard in the morning I didn't really except to go through with it but once I started things clicked. Was cruisin effortlessly at a very relaxed tempo pace. Fast, smooth, strong. Heaven. This is a moderately hilly trail route so to do 6:20 at a nice relaxed effort like that is good stuff. About 10 seconds faster than I've ever done that route and at a notably relaxed effort.
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To totally thread-bomb, I ran my second marathon a little over a month ago. Came in at 2:54 on a pretty flat course, which won me 11th in a pretty slow field (I think the winner was something like 2:35).
My goal was sub-3, so I was pretty happy, but someday I want to get under 2:45 and qualify for New York.
Question for more experienced runners:
I'm kind of sick of marathon training, and want to take a year off to chase other goals. My next fitness goal will either be a sub-35 10km, a sub-16 5km, or an Olympic triathlon. Which of these should I pick and why?
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On September 12 2012 02:29 Bonham wrote:
To totally thread-bomb, I ran my second marathon a little over a month ago. Came in at 2:54 on a pretty flat course, which won me 11th in a pretty slow field (I think the winner was something like 2:35).
My goal was sub-3, so I was pretty happy, but someday I want to get under 2:45 and qualify for New York.
Question for more experienced runners:
I'm kind of sick of marathon training, and want to take a year off to chase other goals. My next fitness goal will either be a sub-35 10km, a sub-16 5km, or an Olympic triathlon. Which of these should I pick and why?
Do whatever interests you the most.
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On September 12 2012 02:29 Bonham wrote:
To totally thread-bomb, I ran my second marathon a little over a month ago. Came in at 2:54 on a pretty flat course, which won me 11th in a pretty slow field (I think the winner was something like 2:35).
My goal was sub-3, so I was pretty happy, but someday I want to get under 2:45 and qualify for New York.
Question for more experienced runners:
I'm kind of sick of marathon training, and want to take a year off to chase other goals. My next fitness goal will either be a sub-35 10km, a sub-16 5km, or an Olympic triathlon. Which of these should I pick and why?
I'd also be interested to hear your running history if you have time. How long did you train before you ran a marathon and how long after till you reach you sub 3h time? I have a long term plan of doing a marathon in 2-3 years.
@ L_Master - I'll post my training next week. I'm taking a breather for the majority of this week. Do you do all your interval work on a track? Wondering how you gauge distance for your short high intensity runs.
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People cannot answer what is more fun for you. But the swimming aspect of triathlon is very different from usual endurance stuff like running and cycling. It is extremely technique-focussed and thus very challenging. I am in the process of learning how to swim properly freestyle. It is all about reducing water drag and being in balance. If you never swam competitively before it is going to be a challenge to develop a proper and efficient stroke.
Also, the cycling can take more time. But if you enjoy being in nature it can be very fun and rewarding. Especially cycling through the Canadian mountains during summer sounds really nice to me.
Cycling a short distance at a very high speed is something that's all about power. So in that respect it is very different from swimming. Almost no technique, almost all aerobic.
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On September 12 2012 02:29 Bonham wrote:
To totally thread-bomb, I ran my second marathon a little over a month ago. Came in at 2:54 on a pretty flat course, which won me 11th in a pretty slow field (I think the winner was something like 2:35).
My goal was sub-3, so I was pretty happy, but someday I want to get under 2:45 and qualify for New York.
Question for more experienced runners:
I'm kind of sick of marathon training, and want to take a year off to chase other goals. My next fitness goal will either be a sub-35 10km, a sub-16 5km, or an Olympic triathlon. Which of these should I pick and why?
Basically what airblade said, go for what interests you. Triathlon might be a nice change of pace IF you enjoy the swimming/biking.
Sub 16 5k is vastly superior to 35 min 10k. If your a 16 min 5k guy 35 min 10k would be a pretty relaxed tempo run. So I guess it doesn't make much sense to shoot for sub 16 before sub 35.
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On September 12 2012 02:44 caznitch wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 02:29 Bonham wrote:
To totally thread-bomb, I ran my second marathon a little over a month ago. Came in at 2:54 on a pretty flat course, which won me 11th in a pretty slow field (I think the winner was something like 2:35).
My goal was sub-3, so I was pretty happy, but someday I want to get under 2:45 and qualify for New York.
Question for more experienced runners:
I'm kind of sick of marathon training, and want to take a year off to chase other goals. My next fitness goal will either be a sub-35 10km, a sub-16 5km, or an Olympic triathlon. Which of these should I pick and why? I'd also be interested to hear your running history if you have time. How long did you train before you ran a marathon and how long after till you reach you sub 3h time? I have a long term plan of doing a marathon in 2-3 years. @ L_Master - I'll post my training next week. I'm taking a breather for the majority of this week. Do you do all your interval work on a track? Wondering how you gauge distance for your short high intensity runs.
I do most of it on the track. I usually do tempo runs/tempo intervals/cruise intervals on trails though and use the mile markers for distance. The workout this week, being a fartlek type run, was just done the roads.
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On September 12 2012 02:44 caznitch wrote:
I'd also be interested to hear your running history if you have time. How long did you train before you ran a marathon and how long after till you reach you sub 3h time? I have a long term plan of doing a marathon in 2-3 years.
Sure. I played basketball throughout my youth and into university, and then quit when I got tired of getting yelled at. I had a casual interest in running after that, and as much love of endorphins as the next human. Overtime, things kind of snowballed. I ran a half marathon about two years ago in 1:31, then a full marathon in 3:05 last summer and my 2:54 this August.
My only other real race time is a 37 minute 10km between the half and the first full marathon, but I did that with more or less no training beyond basic ~12km runs six times a week. (Unlike most runners, I generally abstain from participating in other races while I'm training.) I've learned a lot about how to train for speed since then, especially this summer -- I had a far, far faster runner than I (his PR is somewhere in the 2:30s) giving me some coaching, and it really opened me up to the wonderful world of intervals.
The amount of time you need to prepare for a marathon depends a lot on your basic level of fitness. If you've got some running experience -- say you can do 10km a few times a week without dying of soreness or whatever -- you could get ready to complete your first marathon in three or four months. If you haven't run much beforehand, you might need upwards of a year to get there.
The one thing I would say to all first-time marathoners is to not neglect your overall mileage and especially your long runs. Many beginner training plans, in my view, try to get you by on too little mileage, and then on race day when you get beyond 25 or 30km, you really start to suffer. You need to acclimate your body to going at least 35km in your training, I'd say, or you're going to have hell to pay on race day. Not that many people don't pay said hell and still cross the finish line. But honouring your training schedule makes the difference between finishing with a smile or a grimace.
R.e. the triathlon advice (yes, thank you, the idea of doing something I enjoy had occurred to me): I like both swimming and biking. I swim 1.5 km in about 40 minutes three times a week, and I commute everywhere on my bike, but I really have no racing experience with either sport. Given that I have a fairly endurance base, how long would it take me to pick up on both to the point that I could start seriously training for a triathlon? Also, how long does a typical tri training cycle last? Finally, is there any kind of equivalent to the sub-3 hour barrier in marathon running to Olympic tri times?
Edit: Changed "long" to "little" typo in penultimate paragraph.
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You don't need any more endurance than you already have now. A marathon is much more enduring than a short triathlon.
Your swim time isn't really fast so it needs to be improved on. Are you swimming breaststroke or freestyle? Breaststroke in a big field in an open water is a huge problem. People can't pass you by easily and they risk getting kicked in the face.
A proper freestyle is very fast and also effficient. The thing is, it is hard to get. You need to practice it a lot. It is all about reducing drag and technique. Everytime you enter the pool your goal should be to fine tune your technique a little bit more. Ignore aerobic ability or getting in the mileage.
For cycling you want to know what your ideal pace is and just go for that. Cycling is all about aerobic ability. In training you want to push yourself. It is harder to get your heart rate up for cycling than it is for running. Especially if you are doing a 2 hour ride. You naturally want to slow down a notch.
If there are hills, that's a whole different matter. There still is not much to learn. You can cycle that fast and that is how fast you should cycle.
How fast you can cycle tapers off fast. Drag increases exponentially as velocity increases normally. Doing it at 29 or 30 km/h should be pretty good. It is only 40 km but maybe you actually want to take a rest on the bike rather than try to win time. You can ride pretty leasurely on the bike without losing tons of time. And biking 40k is really nothing to running 42k.
If you can get below 2 hours then that's really really good. But that's probably way harder than doing a below 3 hour marathon. Especially for a runner. So mabye 2:15 or 2:30. Im not good with these numbers.
I am pretty sure you can do a O triathlon right now. The distance is pretty short so it is all about doing it fast rather than doing it. At least, for a marathon runner it is.
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On September 10 2012 14:21 Sein wrote:
My run is in a week now. Should I take it easy this week? Most of the training schedules I've read suggest fairly light workload + taking the day before (or even two days prior) off.
Yea, cutting back by 20-50% is usually good. 4-5 days before the race it's good to do something like 8x200 fast, but with plenty of recovery so it isn't a tough workout and rather just something to have legs feeling fresh and snappy.
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Can someone give me some advice for a beginner runner other than 'take it easy' and 'run slowly'?
Does the 13 week couch to 10K program work well? Currently, I can hold 5K with a 'decent pace' (for me, purely recreational), roughly 30 minutes, without feeling too tired at the end of it. Using that as a starting point, which week should I start in the program should I employ it?
I've also been running with my NB Minimus, and it feels pretty good, even though I run slightly slower in them than I would in my regular running shoes. I think it's just something I have to get used to more.
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EPT
