EPTRunning Thread - Page 50
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caznitch
Canada645 Posts
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Occultus
Kenya138 Posts
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matthewfoulkes
United Kingdom246 Posts
i was running every single day but i've been getting shin pain and it was getting worse when i ran daily so i've cut it down, my longest run now is around 7 milesgoing out now to try to beat it, so i'll see you guys in a bit, hopefully :D if anyone has any training tips or routines, i would seriously appreicate the advice, i also need to buy new shoes so shoe advice would be helpful too. | ||
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Hanakurena
105 Posts
The problem with running the marathon is that if you run too far, and that may be half a marathon distance right now, your legs will just fail you at some point. What you do is gradually build up the milage. Often people recommend a mile or 2 added to your long run which you do once a week. It doesn't matter if you are a really strong 5k or 10k runner. Your legs need to adapt to the distance first and that takes many kilometers and weeks of practice. So if you want to run a marathon in 6 weeks you need to do your longest pre race run in 5 weeks and then you can take a week off to rest. So you basicaly have to add 4.5 to 5 miles or so a week on your long run. You can maybe try to force yourself through all the distance of the marathon by basically walking most of it. This is just not recommended and will destroy muscle tissue. The marathon is for advanced runners, not for bets or challenges. In the past only the most advanced runners, after they went through all the other distances, went to run a marathon. Now people who have bad fitness make the marathon as their goal and excuse to get their fitness back up. It shouldn't be that way. Since you have shin splits right now I'd actually recommend you to take a break and do some cycling instead to recover. But again if you asked a marathon coach if he could give you a training program that allows you to run a marathon in 6 months he'd say you can't. But you want to run one in 6 weeks? It doesn't work that way. Half a marathon in 6 months maybe, but first work towards the 10k, then 15k, etc. When western running coaches first came to train athletes in Kenia, many of the top 10k runners didn't dare to run the marathon. They'd recon it was too far. The key to complete the marathon is to run it fast. The longer you need to run to complete your marathon, the harder it is. Best would be to say: "Hey mate, I am smart and responsible and I care more about my health than about money. So here you go. Ooh and btw next year I'm gonna run half a marathon." As for Sein and his 10k, going from 5k to 10k is fairly easily. Especially if you can run a fast 5k, like sub 24 minutes. But you are better off training for it of course. Just do a 7k run and see how that feels. | ||
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matthewfoulkes
United Kingdom246 Posts
i'm an 18yearold male who weighs about 150 pound at 6", i'm thankful for your advice but when i ran today i could of kept going, my speed was not particuarly good i ran the distance in about 1:45, which is slower than my required race time, but i definitely had 2/3 more miles at least in me i feel like it isn't the distance that i need to worry about, it is going to be the time, as the time i bet i would run the marathon in 3hours 3 minutes. | ||
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caznitch
Canada645 Posts
I wish you the best, but I don't see you finishing this if you're worried about your time. I'm a bit like you in that I take on challenges and, being in your shoes, I wouldn't drop out (though that would probably be the smart thing to do). I think you're best bet is to train to keep a pace you can keep indefinitely. If you reach the 20 mile mark, reevaluate if you can push it for the last 6. Good luck! | ||
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Hanakurena
105 Posts
Just google around and see how long people recommend you to run the marathon. You will be building up tons of cortisone pushing through the pain and abusing the muscles that tell you to stop, damaging and losing muscle tissue. You won't be able to walk for about a week while the body breaks down all the damaged muscle tissue. You definitely have a good shot of forcing yourself to the finish. I doubt you get close to 3 hours 30 that way though. But what is the point? | ||
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matthewfoulkes
United Kingdom246 Posts
i would like to highlight after i reach my goal of a 3:30 marathon i will not be doing another one, i will return to 3-10k running and maybe even look at sprinting and getting out of running abit and maybe more into the lifting department. | ||
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Hanakurena
105 Posts
Not to mention you actually run the risk of getting injured and having to give up anyway. Either do it properly or don't. This is also a chicken out. | ||
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matthewfoulkes
United Kingdom246 Posts
that said, i'm going to be focusing alot more on my streching and increasing my flexibility after reading through the thread to help improve my form and stop myself getting injured i've sort of not been stretching at all so if anyone has a link for a guide to stretches for long distance running that would be great :D | ||
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Hanakurena
105 Posts
Being able to walk through pain and wiping out your muscles in the process is not something to be proud of. | ||
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matthewfoulkes
United Kingdom246 Posts
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Malinor
Germany4727 Posts
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matthewfoulkes
United Kingdom246 Posts
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Hanakurena
105 Posts
Also, with your goal of 3:30 you are making it impossible to complete the marathon. Pacing is everything. You can finish a marathon with no training. But you can't do it ever if you go out on a pacing for a 3:30 finish. The challenge and the presige from a marathon comes from the fact that you need lots of training. Marathons used to be for elite runners only. Running is very high impact. For every additional mile you run your body needs to be able to handle a mile more of impact. This resistance to impact needs to be build up. Even fast 10k runners will have problems running a marathon in 3:30. Just go on Strava and find some runners and see their 10k times then their marathon times. People that run a 40 minute 10k and train properly for a marathon run around the 3:30 time. So you have no idea what you are talking about and I am giving you the best advice I can give. It's not what you want to hear but that's not my problem. You don't impress me with stubbornness. You made a bet without knowing what kind of bet you were making. Now you can either go the wise road or the stubborn one. Your pick. It sounds like you already lost the bet the moment you made it. You can finish a marathon untrained. But then it is all about luck and the right mindset. Start out super slow and start out expecting not to finish. If you put pressure on yourself to finish it, which you obviously are, you can't decide when it is the right time to quit. Then when you finish you will have a week or so where you can't walk without pain while you lose tons of muscle mass in your legs. Not to mention the risk of dehydration. You aren't going to run a marathon untrained ever. You are going to walk a very large part of it. Which means a 4:30 to 5:30 finish. | ||
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
On August 24 2012 02:50 matthewfoulkes wrote: heya guys, got just over 6 weeks to train for a marathon, i'm the kind of guy that says dumb stuff and is dumb enough to back it up, i told my mate i reckoned i could run a marathon in under 3:30 and ended up betting money on it :S i was running every single day but i've been getting shin pain and it was getting worse when i ran daily so i've cut it down, my longest run now is around 7 milesgoing out now to try to beat it, so i'll see you guys in a bit, hopefully :D if anyone has any training tips or routines, i would seriously appreicate the advice, i also need to buy new shoes so shoe advice would be helpful too. A 3:30 marathon in 6 weeks? Having the endurance to go up from 7 miles to 26 in six weeks is a ridiculous order in itself. 3:30... If you're seriously going through with this, then prepare to be exhausted, mentally and physically. To prepare yourself physically, I'd say take a long run every other day. If your long run is 7 miles, then go 7 on A days and maybe 5 on B days. (I'd also recommend taking 1 day off a week). Additionally, decide on a distance you're going to travel before your run starts. If want to run let's say 9 miles but you cant take any more after 7, then walk the last 2 miles. The human body is a great adaptation machine, and it'll adjust to the strain of the distance. Build up your miles, eat properly and heartily so your body can recover. As for the shin splints: Is your form perfect? If it's not then accomplishing a marathon in 6 weeks will be impossible. Imperfect form with this kind of accelerated training will injure you. When it comes to shoes, the cheapest thing you can find is the best, as long as it's not restrictive. Padding does nothing to prevent injury, and will likely cause injury instead. I feel like shoes is what you should be worried about the most, because if you're buying new shoes that aren't broken in you can get blisters and fuck all your progress up. To combat this, pay attention to your feet during running. If your feet are feeling really sweaty, take off your shoes and go run on a field for a while or something. If there's no rules to this marathon bet, I'd suggest either buying some carbohydrate gels or carrying food along with you to avoid burning out once you're hitting over 18 miles. Beyond that, all I can say is believe. The human body can run hundreds of miles, and people do that routinely. So as long as you avoid physical injury, the only thing stopping you is your self-discipline. But seriously, good luck. A 3:30 marathon is fucking insane. | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
If I started with the shorter stuff it might be easier because I wouldn't need as much of an endurance base. On the other hand if I already had a solid base I might be able to hang on to it while I hone my speed. Endurance is in a sense easier to get in terms of its toll on your body and ability to recover from and lasts longer than speed work without as much maintenance. It's a fun thing for me to think about at the moment. Thoughts? | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On August 24 2012 02:50 matthewfoulkes wrote: heya guys, got just over 6 weeks to train for a marathon, i'm the kind of guy that says dumb stuff and is dumb enough to back it up, i told my mate i reckoned i could run a marathon in under 3:30 and ended up betting money on it :S i was running every single day but i've been getting shin pain and it was getting worse when i ran daily so i've cut it down, my longest run now is around 7 milesgoing out now to try to beat it, so i'll see you guys in a bit, hopefully :D if anyone has any training tips or routines, i would seriously appreicate the advice, i also need to buy new shoes so shoe advice would be helpful too. Well this is going to be fun... Do you have any background you can give us on your i was running every single day but i've been getting shin pain and it was getting worse when i ran daily so i've cut it down This doesn't bode well, though maybe you'll get lucky and it won't flare up in the next six weeks. Read about shin splints and related pain and figure out what you can do to assist with the discomfort, as well as ideal strengthening/prehab type exercises you can do. i just finished running a 10-11mile run at good pace, it felt like good strong exercise i ran the distance in about 1:45 Uhh...this REALLY doesn't bode well. A best that is 9:30 pace, possibly slower than 10:00 pace. If your goal is to run a marathon at 8:00 pace (3:30) 9:30 should feel like a fucking crawl...it should almost be awkward to run this pace. You wouldn't even feel like you exercising. If 9:30 really felt like a strong, solid pace then there is absolutely no chance whatsoever you are going to run 3:30. To have the remotest of chances you will need at a minimum to be in 21:30 5k shape / 44 high 10k shape. With your lack of training and aerobic base though those numbers realistically would need to be more like 20 flat and 41 mid. We really need more information about exactly what kind of shape your in. i definitely had 2/3 more miles at least in me i feel like it isn't the distance that i need to worry about, it is going to be the time Man, you don't understand this race at all. The marathon really doesn't even begin in many respects until mile 20. You can get to mile 20 in 2:40 and then take another hour, even two+ to finish the last 6.2 if you paced wrong. Hell, you can feel GOOD getting to mile 20 and if you went out too fast the wheels will come off and you will epically implode. The marathon is somewhat unique that way, you can feel great for a LONG time but still be going way to fast for fitness and then absolutely tank in the latter stages of the race. On August 24 2012 08:02 matthewfoulkes wrote: im sorry im not willing to budge, i'm going to aim for 3:30 and if i hit above that, i take 2 weeks break or so, running only very casually then i will get back on the horse and start training for the next one, til i complete this challenge. Give us race results or something. If you don't have any go out and time trial a 3M run or something as we need to know where your base fitness lies. Until then I can't give much in the way of training recommendations. What I need: - miles per week average for say last month or two - recent race/hard run times (if hard run, how did it feel) - length of longest runs | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On August 24 2012 14:19 AirbladeOrange wrote: So I have an optimistic hypothetical. If I'm able to competitively run again I think a fun challenge would be to try to break all my PRs. The shortest one I'd care about is the 400 and the longest would probably be the 10k. I'm not sure if it would be better to start with with the shorter stuff or the longer stuff. If I started with the shorter stuff it might be easier because I wouldn't need as much of an endurance base. On the other hand if I already had a solid base I might be able to hang on to it while I hone my speed. Endurance is in a sense easier to get in terms of its toll on your body and ability to recover from and lasts longer than speed work without as much maintenance. It's a fun thing for me to think about at the moment. Thoughts? I think if you're worried about the 400m I'd go there first. Endurance really isn't very relevant to that one. Plus the greater 400m speed should in theory make it easier to take down the 800m and to a lesser extent 1500m PRs. I could see you nabbing the 400m, using that to get back into some running quick and strong and re-honing/stride and mechanics (not really sure how much you've been running) and then from there jumping into a base phase, staying "in-touch" with the speed, and then making a decision to go after 800m/1500m or 5k/10k next. | ||
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Occultus
Kenya138 Posts
For the marathon: If you are a middle distance guy and really good at them (around 4 min 1500) you prolly dont need as much miles. A guy in my club ran 2:29 marathon with the longest run being 16 miles. If not, well then you obvisously need miles to do a serious performance  | ||
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