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On June 01 2012 11:47 YPang wrote:
wow thank you for your VERY informative response L_master.
So as of my current standings, would you recommend me just running EASY 5milers ~ 8min/mile pace for the next week or so before adding intervals again?
Based on this:
I think i might take it easier on the intervals, cuz i haven't really had a decent break since the end of my track season.
I'm guessing you have been going for at least a few months, possibly even since XC, without a really good proper break and don't have any upcoming summer season for HS/college.
If that's true I would personally take a week off, followed by 1-2 weeks of light mileage casual jogging. This is good to do once, or even twice, a year just to recharge, absorb all the training, reset, and be psyched to run again. I strongly recommend this in your case because to be honest it sounds like your working your way into some legitimate over-training.
The week off should be just that: off. No running. If your really restless it's okay to get out and hike, go for some EASY bike rides, or swim a little. Then next week come back and do like 1/3 of your normal mileage super easy (9:00+ pace). Some strides around 1500m pace after the run would be okay. Then third week you can run almost your easy mileage but still keep it light, like 8:30 pace. If you don't feel really snappy and ready to go after this third week, then I say do another 2+ weeks of light mileage somewhere between really easy and ridiculously easy. If you don't get fully recovered by the time you start training again it's really easy to start down the road to true overtraining syndrome, which can take months or longer to recover from.
From them go back to your normal base training. To be honest, especially in your case, I think something like Summer of Malmo would be an excellent approach (the summary is below, but I'd recommend the full read):
1) twice-a-day, as many days as you can - four, five or six days a week
(2) increase your mileage, Find your own sweet spot
(4) one tempo run of just four to six miles and
(5) one workout of 1200m to 2000m repeats OR 16 to 24 by 150m to 300m
(5) don't try to impress anyone, run within yourself
(6) relax, the real training doesn't begin until September.
The fast repeats are meant to really be chugging like 800m pace and faster. But they should NOT be hard. Easy way of doing them is something like 50m accelerate, 50m sprint, 50m "float", then a big full recovery. 2-3+ of walking. These are to "stay in touch with speed" without taxing your system.
The same hold for the long repeats, these are basically tempo effort (for you probably around 6:40 pace), with some recoveries thrown in so you can have a little more volume. Again these should NOT be hard. The ENTIRE aim of this program is to relax and rejuvenate in the summer, while preparing yourself to handle more intensity in the fall and building greater high end aerobic strength.
This won't necessarily have you in PR shape come early fall (which you probably don't want anyway) but it will leave you fresh and ready for intense fall training.
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I'm doing the Spartan Sprint this Sunday. It's a 5k'ish (3mile) trail running race with obstacles and so forth. I did it last year when it was held at Fortune (600ish ft elevation) and we wound up going up & down 3 times during the race. It really gave me a renewed appreciation for ski lifts!
I'm also doing the Super Spartan on Saturday of next week, which is essentially the same thing but at Mt Tremblant (2800 ft elevation), with more obstacles and a longer distance - 13k or so (8miles). I assume they're not going to make us go all the way to the top but that's part of the beauty of the races - you never know what you're going to get.
My question is in regards to what I should I do in the 6 days between in order to get the best results at the Super? Carbo load & no cardio at all?
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On June 01 2012 23:09 psychopat wrote:
I'm doing the Spartan Sprint this Sunday. It's a 5k'ish (3mile) trail running race with obstacles and so forth. I did it last year when it was held at Fortune (600ish ft elevation) and we wound up going up & down 3 times during the race. It really gave me a renewed appreciation for ski lifts!
I'm also doing the Super Spartan on Saturday of next week, which is essentially the same thing but at Mt Tremblant (2800 ft elevation), with more obstacles and a longer distance - 13k or so (8miles). I assume they're not going to make us go all the way to the top but that's part of the beauty of the races - you never know what you're going to get.
My question is in regards to what I should I do in the 6 days between in order to get the best results at the Super? Carbo load & no cardio at all?
Do some shorter easy runs and take a couple days off. I like taking the day off 2 days before a race. Today or tomorrow would also be good to take off. Do whatever you think will help you feel the best on race day. No training that you do now will help your fitness level for the race. Eat normally as well. Hopefully that means balanced, enough, and clean with a focus on lean protein and green veggies.
Edit: Good luck and have fun!
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On June 01 2012 23:09 psychopat wrote:
I'm doing the Spartan Sprint this Sunday. It's a 5k'ish (3mile) trail running race with obstacles and so forth. I did it last year when it was held at Fortune (600ish ft elevation) and we wound up going up & down 3 times during the race. It really gave me a renewed appreciation for ski lifts!
I'm also doing the Super Spartan on Saturday of next week, which is essentially the same thing but at Mt Tremblant (2800 ft elevation), with more obstacles and a longer distance - 13k or so (8miles). I assume they're not going to make us go all the way to the top but that's part of the beauty of the races - you never know what you're going to get.
My question is in regards to what I should I do in the 6 days between in order to get the best results at the Super? Carbo load & no cardio at all?
Basically what Airblade said, but I'll give the longer winded version.
My question is in regards to what I should I do in the 6 days between in order to get the best results at the Super?
I'd say from Sunday through Wednesday run as normal, so if you have been running every other day 4 miles or something you might run 4 on Sunday and 4 on Tuesday. Then the last two days leading up to the race you can play with. Some people like to take two days before the race off then the day before the race is short and easy with a few strides, some people like to run everyday leading up to the race (though they are definitely running shorter and easier than typical), and some people like to take the day before the race off (I personally don't as this always makes me feel sluggish, out-of-sync, and uncoordinated.
No hard workouts though, the time for that has past and you won't benefit in time for the race. Easy runs, with some strides, is really all you need in the days leading up to the race.
Carbo load
No.
It's an 8 mile race so there is definitely no need for carb loading, you'll just feel bloated and bring GI race day problems into play. Carb loading is basically a marathon type of thing and the idea is to pack a little extra glycogen into the muscles. You don't need it for shorter races because your body stores enough glycogen for about 17-20+ miles depending on the person. Your race won't even come close to using up all of those stores so it isn't needed whatsoever.
no cardio at all?
This would also not be a particularly good idea. 6-7 days is enough time to just start to lose fitness and more importantly it is plenty of time to start losing some neuromuscular coordination and efficiency. You'll be left feeling "flat" and maybe even notice a tiny bit of deterioration in your fitness.
The goal coming into a race is to feel fresh and snappy, but overkill amounts of rest will leave you out of sync and not ready for the feeling and demands of the race.
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hey guys,
I am a swimmer but this year I switched to Thriathlon and now I m gonna run a 10km race in september. Last year I ran there a 45,xx but this year my Goal is to get sub 40. I am way better in shape then last year, but I dont know how to practice best for it. To my person, I am almost 17years old(gonna be 17 in september), I am 180cm tall (not sure but I thinks it should be 5'8) and I am 68kg heavy (150) pounds.... my body fat percentage is about 10percent so there is not much space left of loosing some wheight.... I dont have the best statur for running due to my big big shoulders and arms from swimming...
take in consideration that i am still swimming monday, tuesday and friday so i can just run the other days.... these days i swimm about 2hours (6km)...
some my question is how can i get sub 40, there is a good 400 lap in my town and some other laps like one 8,5km one 11 and one 21 in the forrest close to me
hope to get some adivce from you
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What is your running background? I.e. how much do you typically run each week, for how long have you been running, etc.
More importantly have you switched completely to triathlon or do you still intend to compete as a swimmer as well? If your intending to focus on triathlon you'll probably want to do less swimming and focus more on the biking and running as they are likely to be your bigger weakness and make up a much more significant portion of the total time.
AirbladeOrange is actually a triathlete so he will have a much better idea of what type of training goes into it and how best to prepare.
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Well I am not aiming for a career As swimmer anymore, befor my Switch I Used to swim 5times a Week... But I can currently hold my swim shape by just practicing 3times but i m Not on competitiona anymore
I dot Not own a real Race Bike yet, that is the reason Why i just Run and swim atm and just use my old Bike to School
Sry for capslock cell phone
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Well now I have the time to go a bit more in detail,
Firstly, I started running almost three years ago and it was very hard for me. But then I grew and got better and better till I decided to run a 5km(27min).... :-) As you can see, I really sucked.... (was a bit overwheight aswell but since I grew and with swimming alot I got it under control and now I think I am fine with my wheight. Then later on, I decided to start on our city run which is about 7,5km with three little hills and I finished with 33,20. Then in Spring the year after I started a 14,3km run with almost 400m elevation and it took me 1:16min... then in the winter I finished my first half-marathon with almost no training before (one run was longer than 12km) and it took me 1:48:xx but the it is not an easy one cuz I life close to the mountains so there is always a hill :-) then in spring this year I run again the 14,3km and I improved my time from last year about 7 min on 1:09,xx and got first place.... now I want to get sub 40min in the middle and september and I am not sure how to do it...
For running, I am not in a team, sometimes I run with my father, and I never practised with a schedule or a plan so I think I can improve alot by focusing on the wright training. (Never made some Intervals, etc.)
Furthermore, I am very motivated and in the middle of August I will be in Switzerland where I can practise on almost 1700m so I hope it will help my a bit
Hopefully, u can give me some adice or link me to a page where I can find some 10-12 plans, I just found one but this one was kinda strange and most of the comments were negative
Edit: I always forget smth...I run about 30km each week but mostly in runs about 10km
thx alot
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Just wanted to chime in with a thank you to the people answering questions. Much appreciated.
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Track Meet tomorrow. Super excited, since it's been a long time since I ran a the 1500/mile (basically not since HS) and probably 8+ years since I ran an 800m and those are the two events I will probably chose to run. No idea what to expect here, as I'm not too confident about where my fitness for these races are since I only started doing any track work at all in the past couple weeks, and that has been 5K/10K paced stuff.
I'll probably just guess at what's hard and trying to be first lap fast, but controlled, and then by second lap be feeling it good. 800m I have no idea at all how I should feel at any stage.
Might run some combo of the 100m/400m as well, but I'm undecided. Anybody know anything about how to start from blocks?
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1500m in 4:56.32.
Given the wind I'm satisfied. Sustained 15-20, gusting close to 30. Not sure how much it affects time but holy hell did it seem hard going into the headwinds. Not sure if it affected me but this bad boy was just 10 min or so after the 100m. Good race overall, though I wasn't out fast enough the first 2 laps as I felt comfortable coming through 800 in 2:40. Ran really strong on the last lap though and had a very solid kick the last 200m giving it absolutely everything I had left. Hurt, but not for long.
Biggest mistake was not going out with the lead pack. Had I done so I could have had people to pull me through at around 4:40 pace (1500m) and a very nifty wind break. Cool experience though since I have never run these races before in a real setting since I'm so new to running overall.
100m - results aren't up yet but it was into crazy 20+mph headwind
400m - 64.17, out a little too fast and a bit worn out, powerful wind didn't help. Need to crack 60 here one of these days...given me 100m speed it should be possible.
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Ok, been meaning to post for a while. Now is a good time I think.
I've been running frequently since March of this year, but not nearly as consistent as I would have liked. I started completely out of shape running ~8:20 pace for 20 minutes and can now easily hold a 7:20 pace on a good day for a long run. I also went through a period of pretty intense training for about 3 weeks with a buddy of mine when I got home from college in mid May and improved a lot even though main runs tended to be every other day (most around 7 flat).
Now I'm back on my own in my college town after taking a pretty easy week in terms of running. Tomorrow I'm going to start my summer training for club cross country this fall (8K). I have about 10 weeks until the season starts and a decent schedule to go off of. My biggest focus will be on getting out and running the miles 6-7 days a week. As long as I am consistently running and staying motivated, I'm not too concerned about how fast I'm going (to an extent) and assume I will steadily improve as I add miles. My goal in the fall is to run a sub 30:00 8K (~6 flat for 5 miles). I'm really far from that, but I think I can get there by November. The purpose of my summer training is to build a strong base and be able to hit 60+ mile weeks comfortably by the end.
I think posting on TL will help me stay motivated! I tend to blow days off more easily than I should, and I need someone to hold me accountable. I'll update throughout the summer and try to get an online log going like L_Master has. This week's goal is 35 miles, and tomorrow I start with 5 1/2 easy. Wednesday are tempo days, Saturdays typically a workout, and Sunday long runs. I anticipate it's going to be very challenging, but as long as the miles are getting in (including on days I feel like crap), I think it's doable. Now I'm excited to start (=
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On June 11 2012 12:19 getSome[703] wrote:
Ok, been meaning to post for a while. Now is a good time I think.
I've been running frequently since March of this year, but not nearly as consistent as I would have liked. I started completely out of shape running ~8:20 pace for 20 minutes and can now easily hold a 7:20 pace on a good day for a long run. I also went through a period of pretty intense training for about 3 weeks with a buddy of mine when I got home from college in mid May and improved a lot even though main runs tended to be every other day (most around 7 flat).
Now I'm back on my own in my college town after taking a pretty easy week in terms of running. Tomorrow I'm going to start my summer training for club cross country this fall (8K). I have about 10 weeks until the season starts and a decent schedule to go off of. My biggest focus will be on getting out and running the miles 6-7 days a week. As long as I am consistently running and staying motivated, I'm not too concerned about how fast I'm going (to an extent) and assume I will steadily improve as I add miles. My goal in the fall is to run a sub 30:00 8K (~6 flat for 5 miles). I'm really far from that, but I think I can get there by November. The purpose of my summer training is to build a strong base and be able to hit 60+ mile weeks comfortably by the end.
I think posting on TL will help me stay motivated! I tend to blow days off more easily than I should, and I need someone to hold me accountable. I'll update throughout the summer and try to get an online log going like L_Master has. This week's goal is 35 miles, and tomorrow I start with 5 1/2 easy. Wednesday are tempo days, Saturdays typically a workout, and Sunday long runs. I anticipate it's going to be very challenging, but as long as the miles are getting in (including on days I feel like crap), I think it's doable. Now I'm excited to start (=
Good for you! Let us know if you have any questions, need advice, need motivation, or have anything to share.
Making running dates and keeping runs interesting and fun helps most people not blow off days. Whenever I didn't feel like running I'd remind myself how rare it was after finishing a run for me to actually regret getting my ass out the door.
Also, I'm going to PM you every day to make sure you're running.
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My goal in the fall is to run a sub 30:00 8K (~6 flat for 5 miles). I'm really far from that, but I think I can get there by November.
I'm not sure your necessarily all that far away. If you were running runs around 7 flat and not absolutely hammering each and every one I'd wager a guess you would be in 32-33 shape, but the fact that you say you can "easily" hold 7:20 pace for a long run suggests more like 30-31 shape. 7:20 pace isn't going to be easy for someone in like 32+ shape.
I'll update throughout the summer and try to get an online log going like L_Master has.
Log is good for motivation and makes it really easy for us to see training history and give constructive feedback.
Wednesday are tempo days, Saturdays typically a workout, and Sunday long runs.
I somewhat dislike this, your goal as you stated is bumping up that mileage. Increased mileage + intensity is usually not a good recipe, and 2-3 workouts per week is alot.
I'm really a big fan of SoM type approach, especially if your racing season is going to be the fall. Basic gist of SoM is increase mileage, start doubling at least a couple days a week, 1 tempo run of 3-6 miles each week, 1 relaxed track session per week.
The track sessions are either long repeats (1200m-2000m repeats w/lap jog) or speed type stuff. With the long repeats you would be looking for 10K pace at the fastest on those repeats if your feeling great, or as backed off as HMP. Think of it as a broken up threshold (tempo) run on the track for smoothness and rhythm of stride.
The short workouts would be say 150m with full recovery (rest of lap or more WALK). These are to stay in touch with speed so your ready for it in the fall and haven't touched on speed all summer. A good way of doing them is 50m accel, 50m sprint (relaxed, not pressed, but near top end), 50 stride out. The whole point is to train the neuromuscular system, to concentrate on the mechanics of running - you know it: forward lean, arm carriage, knees up and out, heels clipping your butt, stride length and turnover. I've always been amazed at the number of runners that think that they can "get speed" during the last three weeks of the season. It doesn't work that way.
It's important for both not to go to hard. This is not meant to get you in crazy good shape over summer but prepare you for the fall so your ready to handle the real work of fall and get fast.
With the tempos, I would personally recommend not even scheduling them. If your starting your run and everything is clicking make that a tempo day. Tempo's are as much about the mental side as they are the physiologic and are about "making fast feel easy" so if your feeling bad it's hard to do and can make you press to try to hit paces you think you should...and that gets you away from the tempo mindset.
It's also okay in summer training where if your one a run and things are going great, your feeling effortless and flowing, it's okay to just break into a spontaneous tempo run the last couple miles and even crank down to 5k pace and faster in the last couple minutes if the tempo pace still feels great (just don't strain on anything, relaxed fast is what we are after).
but as long as the miles are getting in (including on days I feel like crap), I think it's doable.
Be smart about this. If your feeling crappy on a workout day, scrap it and come back to it tomorrow when you feel better. If it's a regular day make sure you still keep it easy. For me some days 7:30 is a light jog, other days feeling crappy 8:00 might feel overly challenging. Find that sweet spot each day that is truly easy and makes you feel like your "storing up oxygen" for your next run.
On June 11 2012 14:32 AirbladeOrange wrote:
Also, I'm going to PM you every day to make sure you're running.
And I'll stalk your log and spam you PM's if you don't run 
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Also, I'm going to PM you every day to make sure you're running.
Haha, do it! I just set up a log so you should be able to tell if I'm slacking.
I'm not sure your necessarily all that far away. If you were running runs around 7 flat and not absolutely hammering each and every one I'd wager a guess you would be in 32-33 shape, but the fact that you say you can "easily" hold 7:20 pace for a long run suggests more like 30-31 shape. 7:20 pace isn't going to be easy for someone in like 32+ shape.
Hmmm, well the 7 flats were pretty difficult (probably decently close to a max pace) and typically meant the next day would be off or pretty easy. And maybe I exaggerated on how "easy" a 7:20 is now but it's definitely doable for 5-7 miles on a decent day without being completely dead afterwards. I definitely don't think I'm anywhere near 30-31 though.
The track sessions are either long repeats (1200m-2000m repeats w/lap jog) or speed type stuff. With the long repeats you would be looking for 10K pace at the fastest on those repeats if your feeling great, or as backed off as HMP. Think of it as a broken up threshold (tempo) run on the track for smoothness and rhythm of stride.
Almost exactly what I was planning 
With the tempos, I would personally recommend not even scheduling them. If your starting your run and everything is clicking make that a tempo day. Tempo's are as much about the mental side as they are the physiologic and are about "making fast feel easy" so if your feeling bad it's hard to do and can make you press to try to hit paces you think you should...and that gets you away from the tempo mindset.
I see what you mean here, and I would definitely have to hate to do a tempo run on a bad day. But I still would like to do a slightly extended faster run at least once a week. I'll see how this works out and won't hesitate to go for it if I'm feeling good.
Be smart about this. If your feeling crappy on a workout day, scrap it and come back to it tomorrow when you feel better. If it's a regular day make sure you still keep it easy. For me some days 7:30 is a light jog, other days feeling crappy 8:00 might feel overly challenging. Find that sweet spot each day that is truly easy and makes you feel like your "storing up oxygen" for your next run.
Remembering this will be very important - I hate going slow on bad days and more often than not will try to push the pace through while halving the length of the run. I'll do my best to take it easy when necessary and focus on getting the miles in.
Thanks for your support guys! I'll link to my log once there is something to show haha
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Oh, what are your current PRs?
Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to jump in a 5k or something if you haven't recently. Getting a little racing experience never hurts and lets us and you know exactly where your fitness is at.
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I don't have really have any PRs to go off of for cross country - I know I hit a 19 something 5K at some point during high school. I ran a 4:58 1600 a few years ago doing ~30 mile weeks but haven't been near that level of fitness since.
I think running a 5K in 2 or 3 weeks would be a great idea and I'll start looking for one.
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On June 12 2012 02:31 getSome[703] wrote:
I don't have really have any PRs to go off of for cross country - I know I hit a 19 something 5K at some point during high school. I ran a 4:58 1600 a few years ago doing ~30 mile weeks but haven't been near that level of fitness since.
I think running a 5K in 2 or 3 weeks would be a great idea and I'll start looking for one.
That 1600m time bodes well. Just a matter of getting back in shape and then being able to extend the endurance. Times like what you ran (4:58/19:xx) are pretty common for HSers who are new to running and don't have a ton of mileage behind them yet. The have the speed and enough fitness to crank out good 800's and decent miles, but their isn't enough endurance to perform at the same level in the 3200 or 5k.
The good news is that 4:58 is an equivalent performance to around 17:15 in 5k. So we know you were in good shape not all that long ago and it's alot easier to get back in shape than build it from the ground up the first time around. Get some consistent running in and good things will happen come fall!
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Hmm. Something is weird about the link, it takes me to a log with no data that displays as my own. So either your link is bad or maybe you have some odd privacy settings going on.
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EPT
