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England2674 Posts
Went for a run yesterday and loved it which is new one for me.
I've been hearing a lot about the barefoot style running and just wondering if anyone here has tried it and disliked it or has arguements against it. I've only heard high praise about it for people so I'm wondering what the points against it are.
I've only been running a little while and all I've read is that if you're experienced you might have trouble adjusting to the different running style.
I've only got some £40 running shoes and socks at the moment would probably wait for those to wear out either way.
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Good stuff this week.
Ran a better 100m than I have before (13.23 HT into pretty light breeze) which was nice to see some progress on that side...but still alot of work to be done. I have run a slightly faster PR but that was like 10-15 mph downbreeze so I consider this a significantly stronger performance.
Been feeling really good this week overall, and especially tonight where I did a nice little progressive run. Came back last 3 miles in a little under 7:00 pace at what felt like marathon pace (might have been a little more than MP effort though given the pace). The kicker is that this is the uphill section of the main dirt trail I run on and is usually 35-50 seconds/mile slower than flat crete or the track. While I doubt my MP has suddenly improved to the 6:05-6:20 range it was still a great run, one of those where everything is just clicking and you feel great.
On May 13 2012 08:45 Flicky wrote:
Went for a run yesterday and loved it which is new one for me.
I've been hearing a lot about the barefoot style running and just wondering if anyone here has tried it and disliked it or has arguements against it. I've only heard high praise about it for people so I'm wondering what the points against it are.
I've only been running a little while and all I've read is that if you're experienced you might have trouble adjusting to the different running style.
I've only got some £40 running shoes and socks at the moment would probably wait for those to wear out either way.
Basically as I see it there are two reasons to consider barefoot running:
1) You've tried a few different pairs and types of shoes and always seem to develop injuries regardless, even when your mileage and intensity are stable
2) You try barefoot running out and love how it feels.
There is alot of anecdotal stuff out there about the benefits of barefoot running but little scientific support currently and definitely there are cases both ways of people going shoe -> barefoot and getting injured as well as going shoe -> barefoot and having less injury problems. It's probably more skewed towards more injuries but a portion of that may well be the surfaces people run on and that they don't allow the time to transition and go straight from all shoe to all barefoot.
Probably the most common reasons advocating for it are that it's more natural since we evolved to run and walk without shoes. While this sounds pretty convincing at first it fails to account for the fact that back in the day we ran almost exclusively on grass and maybe some occasional dirt. Today many people run alot on concrete/asphalt and some on dirt, with very minimal running over more grassy, cushioned terrain. For most people these harder surfaces require shoes to prevent impact injuries from these significantly harder surfaces.
Barefoot running definitely isn't doing anything from the elites as nobody does a significant amount of training and NOBODY races in barefeet. Some of the elites do use a little bit of ancillary barefoot work in the forms of form drills/strides/etc; probably to help keep in touch with the feeling of the most "natural" stride possible because it is very true that shoes alter the way your foot lands.
Basically, there is no compelling evidence that says it's a good or bad idea to switch. If your always getting injured to worth a shot for sure, and if you try it and happen to find it feels really good or helps your running then it's also worth playing around with. If you do choose to do either EASE into and gradually work up to a greater % of running being barefoot.
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The thing to take away from barefoot running is the forefoot strike. Heel striking is far more prone to injury.
If you're looking to improve your sprinting speed deadlifts/squats are the thing runners miss the most out on. It should drop you below 12 seconds easy.
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On May 14 2012 13:54 Sacrieur wrote:
The thing to take away from barefoot running is the forefoot strike. Heel striking is far more prone to injury.
If you're looking to improve your sprinting speed deadlifts/squats are the thing runners miss the most out on. It should drop you below 12 seconds easy.
I agree that lifting done properly and with a good program (as opposed to mindless just trying to get bigger/stronger lifting with no real goal/plan in mind) is extremely beneficial. The unique challenge for a distance runner is that we don't really want to add alot of extra mass as that generally ends up hurting more than it helps, even if it assists top end speed.
I'm currently playing around right now with heavy weight/very low reps (2-3) with a focus on explosiveness and power (well, not quite yet...right now I am going back and trying to get my form very solid).
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On May 14 2012 13:54 Sacrieur wrote:
The thing to take away from barefoot running is the forefoot strike. Heel striking is far more prone to injury.
If you're looking to improve your sprinting speed deadlifts/squats are the thing runners miss the most out on. It should drop you below 12 seconds easy.
Don't people generally midfoot strike then they're barefoot?
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Look at Alfred Kirwa Yego, then tell me again you need to be a strong lifter to run fast.  Im not even considering Asbel Kiprop.
Hills, XC and multipace training does magic.
Edit: Oh, youre referring to 100m speed? Dont know with that, do you wanna be a good sprinter or good distance runner? Good distance training will drop you sub 12 aswell but sprinting is something completely different.
Oh and a good mid/forefoot strike is good for the track but you can be fast without it aswell. Its nothing mandatory to run fast. Try to land right under your body, improve your form and injury risk will decrease aswell.
Look at the marathon, a lot of the sub 2:10 guys are heelstriking. So unless youre close to 29minutes on 10k road races it shouldnt bother that much.
This is a smooth heelstrike
Im not fully convinced of barefoot running. Even this female barefoot runner from Ethiopia (dont remember her name) does most of her miles in trainers. You cant run barefoot all the time.
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On May 14 2012 18:39 Occultus wrote:Look at Alfred Kirwa Yego, then tell me again you need to be a strong lifter to run fast. Im not even considering Asbel Kiprop. Hills, XC and multipace training does magic. Edit: Oh, youre referring to 100m speed? Dont know with that, do you wanna be a good sprinter or good distance runner? Good distance training will drop you sub 12 aswell but sprinting is something completely different.
I don't know of any distance training that will drop you sub 12 that doesn't involve a large amount of HIIT. And while you don't need to be able to do lifts to run fast, it helps in a number of areas, and strength directly translates into endurance while endurance translates extremely poorly over to strength. Usually only elite endurance athletes can pull off what may be considered an average for sprinters.
Maximum speed is all about your mass to force ratio. The best way to get the most force is through lifting for power. And since strength gains at the novice level are more neurological, a large amount of strength can be gained without any large amount of muscle mass, making it ideal for practically any runner.
Oh and a good mid/forefoot strike is good for the track but you can be fast without it aswell. Its nothing mandatory to run fast. Try to land right under your body, improve your form and injury risk will decrease aswell. Look at the marathon, a lot of the sub 2:10 guys are heelstriking. So unless youre close to 29minutes on 10k road races it shouldnt bother that much. This is a smooth heelstrike
I couldn't see quite clearly, but it looked like he was mid-striking. The thing to take away from his form is that he doesn't have any bob motion, which means any heel strike would be less prone to injury.
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http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/writers/brian_cazeneuve/09/02/keflezighi/p1_keflezighi_0902.jpg
http://gothamist.com/attachments/jen/2009_11_nycmw1.jpg
Hes doing it on track aswell. Its not that bad if you keep a slight bend in your knee. I agree that its not very helpful for running in spike shoes but for a road runner like meb its only some side event.
Generally this barefoot and footstrike topic is something people talk waaaay to much about. You cant force yourself into a completely different running style, you can only optimize.
In track races up to 1500m i can run completely on my forefoot, but as soon as i get on the street it just seems wrong to me and i become stiff and totally unfluid if i try to run on my forefoot like on track.
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I feel the much bigger issue with foot strike is COG. If your heelstriking and your foot plant is well in front of your center of gravity it's going to put a bunch of unnecessary strain on your leg, and you'll get that "braking" effect. Very few people do it (which might be why anti-heelstrike gets so much emphasis) but if your forefoot striking with footplant way in front of your center I'd imagine it's equally as bad.
On the same note a heelstrike in which the foot is landing perfectly underneath the bodies center line probably isn't that big of an issue, especially since modern shows often have big cushioned heels that promote this sort of strike.
Pretty Good Science of Sport issue on the topic of footstrike
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Fore or mid is fine. And sure you can heel strike and run plenty fast.
Heel striking is still more prone to injury, and should probably be avoided for that reason. Even with shoes.
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Why should there be less force on your body if you change your strike?
Only thing that matters in terms of raw force is speed, your weight and gravity. Further studies werent even able to prove that a different surface changes the risk of injury because your body reacts different on pavement then it does on soft grass.
But there is no reason not to learn a solid midfoot strike where you land on your WHOLE foot right under your center of gravity like l_master wrote.
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Just finished track for the my first year ever! I'm a sophomore in High School, and this is really my first time doing a sport. Officially anyway. I was a sprinter, mediocre at best, but I certainly feel better about myself :D
The only two races I've officially run was the 200m, which I got a whopping 29 seconds on, and the 400m, which I got 63 seconds on. I'm decently happy with the 400 time, not so much with the 200. The 400 race was crazy though, I was leading everyone until the 300 meter mark, where I just hit a massive wall, and just COULDN'T run fast. Was like running in honey. Then after I finished (third in my heat), I got crazy runner's high. Crazy. I could hardly see and the world was shaking and my heart hurt and shit. I've only had that to me once in my entire life O.o, back in sixth grade.
But. It was a cool experience, I guess. I probably won't go out for it again, just because I really am not that good, and it eats up a lot of time. Plus I was in perpetual ever since I started it: my ankles constantly ached, have had terrible shin splints (on and off) for about three months now, and crotch muscles were stinging as well.
Wish I found this thread earlier :<
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No problem, just start again like you never ever ran for your entire life. Start some easy running and maybe youll find yourself again as an 800m or distance runner. 
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Fuck, just did 3x8 intervals of 30 sec sprint:180 sec pause. We'd set markers up after the 1st run to set a distance that we should try to get to in the following intervals.
I'm already sore, brutal.
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On May 15 2012 05:14 Nazarene wrote:
Fuck, just did 3x8 intervals of 30 sec sprint:180 sec pause. We'd set markers up after the 1st run to set a distance that we should try to get to in the following intervals.
I'm already sore, brutal.
Hmm, this doesn't sound brutal at all to me. 6:1 ratio of rest to work is tons of rest, and even if you ran these at 400m pace it doesn't sound all that hard.
If your not used to running fast I have no doubts you'll feel good and sore though.
EDIT: Wait, what the heck kind of pace was this at? 400m? 800m? mile? I just noticed you said 3x8...4000-4800 meters is a good bit of work, even if it's mile pace work (I'm assuming it's this pace or faster since you referred to it as "sprinting").
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Another reason to mid strike is that your feet are on the ground for less time.
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When you land on the ball of your foot, your lower legs acts as more of a spring, helping to absorb impact. He heel has no such mechanism.
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On May 15 2012 06:31 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 05:14 Nazarene wrote:
Fuck, just did 3x8 intervals of 30 sec sprint:180 sec pause. We'd set markers up after the 1st run to set a distance that we should try to get to in the following intervals.
I'm already sore, brutal. Hmm, this doesn't sound brutal at all to me. 6:1 ratio of rest to work is tons of rest, and even if you ran these at 400m pace it doesn't sound all that hard. If your not used to running fast I have no doubts you'll feel good and sore though. EDIT: Wait, what the heck kind of pace was this at? 400m? 800m? mile? I just noticed you said 3x8...4000-4800 meters is a good bit of work, even if it's mile pace work (I'm assuming it's this pace or faster since you referred to it as "sprinting").
I have no idea why I wrote 3x8, as we only did 8 intervals  but I'm talking all out sprinting for 30 secs. I haven't run for quite a while, my daily training consists of lots of heavy lifting. My plan is to run these intervals once a week and lift the rest of the week.
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Today: 10x200m. 100m jog rest. First five reps in 34-35 secs, last 5 in 33 seconds.
I start to like middle distance workouts, was pretty easy.
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Cooper test tomorrow. Hoping for a 2800+ meter result. PR=2720m
1'45" per 400m for 6 laps. 1'30" left for the last lap.
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EPT
