|
On April 20 2012 07:44 Risen wrote:
I'll update when I get back. Figure I'll ease into it with something like 3 miles. Any tips for someone new to running? (Yes I read the OP, I mean beyond that. Personal anecdotes, etc.)
Find a way to make it and keep it fun. Nothing makes running harder to keep up than not having fun.
|
Holy monkeynuts I've never felt so much pain in my feet rofl. Made it through the 3 miles but wowza... I'm sweating but not really tired at all. Had to stop, though. Feels like I can't walk anymore lol
|
On April 20 2012 08:31 Risen wrote:
Holy monkeynuts I've never felt so much pain in my feet rofl. Made it through the 3 miles but wowza... I'm sweating but not really tired at all. Had to stop, though. Feels like I can't walk anymore lol
Pain? From blistering or is it more tendom/ligament pain?
If it's the latter that is a MASSIVE cause for concern. One run of 3 miles should not result in large amounts of pain in the feet, assuming we are talking about injury type pain.
If it is general soreness or blistering that's not the end of the world...but I would definitely question the size/fit of the shoe.
|
On April 20 2012 10:56 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 08:31 Risen wrote:
Holy monkeynuts I've never felt so much pain in my feet rofl. Made it through the 3 miles but wowza... I'm sweating but not really tired at all. Had to stop, though. Feels like I can't walk anymore lol Pain? From blistering or is it more tendom/ligament pain? If it's the latter that is a MASSIVE cause for concern. One run of 3 miles should not result in large amounts of pain in the feet, assuming we are talking about injury type pain. If it is general soreness or blistering that's not the end of the world...but I would definitely question the size/fit of the shoe.
Feet felt completely fine five minutes after sitting down. Thinking maybe going from nothing to three miles running is what caused it. We'll see when I go for a jog tomorrow.
|
I'm sorry I was so brief in my prior posting that led to these questions.
On April 19 2012 14:15 L_Master wrote:
This is good for me to so I can get a little more sprinting knowledge in there.
I'll fire away a few questions:
-I assume % means that percentage of max speed. In other words if you were a 10 second 100m guy you might be doing 200/400 in 25/50? Speed endurance might look like 10.5-11.1?
-For speed endurance would you run a 400m rep the same pace as a 100m rep? (i.e. your 10 second guy would do 11.1/44.4, or would it scale and be more like 11.1/45+)
% is the percentage of max speed for which you could run that event distance. So if a 10-second 100-meter sprinter were to do a speed endurance workout that involved 100s, it would be as you stated, those 100s would be completed in 10.5-11.1 seconds. He would ideally be closer to 95% in shorter distance intervals such as the 100, but closer to 90% in longer distance intervals such as the 400. If that same 10-second 100-meter sprinter ran the 200 in 22 seconds, he would be running 200 repeats in 23.3-24.4, probably around 24 seconds due to the distance being longer.
-On your top speed workout would you really take 10+ min recovery even if you were doing like flying 30's or 60's? If doing those what sort of volume would you do?
Long recoveries are essential to top speed workouts even if the workout is flying 30s. It is actually very strenuous on your muscles run at your body's top speed, if you are a sprinter, and the time you can run at that speed is very short. The idea of these workouts is to accustom your body to operate at its maximum and it is from there that your body can make gains in its top speed. The concept is probably foreign to any distance runner because these runners physically cannot run at a speed that will strain their muscles in this way. The volume most top speed workouts is generally very small, with 6 intervals being about the maximum.
-What kind of weight training is it? I'm going to assume generally not high rep low weight, but do you tend to focus more on hypertrophy ranges of lifting or more very heavy low rep lifting (2-3) for CNS conditioning and overall recruitment or some combination of both?
For the most part, weight training should actually be a fair combination of different aspects of strength. Most of the time, though, the focus is just the standard lift 70% of your 1 rep max (1 RM), 6-12 repetitions, 4-7 sets, with 2-5 minute rest. There is merit to adding in very heavy, low rep lifting (85% of 1 RM, 1-5 reps, 4-7 sets, 2-6 minute rest), but it should not be the bulk of weight training. Power lifting, doing repetitions almost as fast as you can should not be neglected (80% of 1 RM, 2-5 sets, 2-6 minute rest).
That tempo workout is interesting as for me it works out almost exactly to be a pretty classic 800/mile workout. I don't know the volume but 10x400m at mile pace w/1 min recovery is a classic. I'm somewhere between 13.5 and 14 for the 100m which would have me doing 400's in roughly 72-74 high; just a smidge faster than what my current mile shape probably is.
Tempo is an aspect of running that mid-distance and longer sprints share. The difference being that sprinters generally do it much faster and will never do a tempo workout composed of repeats longer than 200 meters. The reason I listed the distances up to 400 meters is that certain workouts can start or end with a 400, but are generally never done more than once. A usual tempo workout for sprinters can be 6-8x200 meters at around 30 seconds.
What constitutes "short hills", how many seconds? Would these be run close to all out?
"Short hills" would be considered about 60-70 meters of all out running. Any speed workout asks the runner to work at a minimum of 90% of max speed.
On April 19 2012 15:16 Lorken wrote:I was going for more strength but thought I might as well get some endurance as well so I was trying to get too much out of it I guess. Turns out I have a lot to work on tommorow, my pacing is all over the place going from all out speed the first 2 sprints to a sad looking jog (but still feels all out) on the very last one. Guess I have to find a grassy hill now since I go barefeet on a grass field. Pavement here is so bad it feels like gravel at points  Also, adding onto L_Master's questions: How many sets would you guys be talking about? With a 10+ minute break and short distance running, does it help build muscle much? I do pull ups and it doesn't feel like you're getting tired at all (but you can definitely feel muscles going all out), is that the sort of feeling you're trying to achieve with the long breaks?
I'm going to ignore your first question for now.
Extremely short distance running would be more comparable to doing a 1 RM. You are trying to perform at 100%, but you know that exertion at 100% cannot last for very long. The reason you take such a long recovery is to fully recover so that you can exert yourself at 100% again. In this case, the quality of the run far more important than the quantity because if you are only able to repeat at 98%, your body will not feel the same strain as it would as if you were at 100%, and will not adapt accordingly.
How steep would you be aiming for with the hills? Example hill: + Show Spoiler +Although it doesn't look like much I would imagine it would be a lot harder than on a flat surface right? Also, cheers for all of your input guys 
Anywhere between 3% and 10% gradation is fine for training purposes. Even the smallest hills will feel tough when you have to run up it.
The following is a longer version of what I posted before. (I also left a couple out before.)
For a sprinter, there are eight categories of workouts: Speed Endurance, Tempo, Strength Endurance, Endurance Running, Speed, Power Speed, Event Running, and Strength Training.
Speed Endurance: tax oxygen heavily but runners are given near full recovery, there is a definite build up in lactic acid
Tempo: helps learn rhythm, increase oxygen uptake, shorten recovery periods for future workouts
Strength Endurance: resistance running of over 10 seconds but generally less than 20
Endurance Running: objective to shorten recovery for other workouts
Speed: distances from 30 to 100 meters, quality, full recovery
Power Speed: resistance running of less than 10 seconds at high intensity
Event Running: having varied speed for each segment in the workout distance; if the distance were 300 meters, the first 50 could be just accelerating to a good speed, with the next 100 all out, then the next 100 cruising, with the last 50 all out.
A sample of the workouts listed:
Speed Endurance: 8x100 (5-10 minutes rest), 5x150, 4x200, 3x300
Tempo: 8x200 (2 minutes rest), 6x300, 50-100-150-200-250-300-350 pyramid
Strength Endurance: (2-3 minutes rest) Stadium steps, uphill running for 100-150 meters
Endurance Running: 30-minute run, fartlek
Speed: Flying 30s, 6x60 flying start, 6x60 block starts
Power Speed: 10x30 meter harness runs, short hill runs for 60 meters
Event Running: (5-10 minutes rest) 150 accelerations (50 all out-50 cruise-50 out), for 350 meters (50 fast, 150 cruise, 100 fast, 50 cruise)
Edit: I forgot to mention, a sprinter generally does not run more than 1200 meters in a work out, though when focusing on more endurance aspects, this guideline number is often exceeded. Recovery is active and a walk or slow jog should be done during the recovery phases.
|
Hmm. Just got back into running today. I ran XC/Track in Primary School, so I missed it quite a bit.
Ran a mile at a 9 minute mile pace. Really nice to be running again, but having developed quite a bit since then was sorer than expected.
Tighter fitting clothing maybe?
|
hihi running thread. I'm training for my first real race in a while and I wanted to bounce a few ideas off of you all.
Background: I used to be an XC (17:00 5k) guy in HS and a collegiate hurdler (400ih), got into cycling after I graduated college in 2008 and have been bike commuting moderate distance to work every day since. I'm sort of training for a half-marathon on short notice and I'm trying to figure out the best way to prep myself. Ideally I would have given myself much more time to build up a base, but I dont have that chance. Race day is May 27th. I'd consider myself in good shape, but haven't ran much the past 4 years outside of some 5ks.
Since I'm bike commuting 5 days a week, I'm trying to limit my weekday running to 2 times of 3 or 4 miles with a long run on the weekend. I have 5 weekends left and am trying to make the most out of what little training I'm going to be doing. Do you think this will be an effective strategy to get me through the half-marathon in a decent time (goal is sub 2:00), or is there a smarter way to go about this? I'm planning on doing a very slow 9 or 10 with a friend tomorrow as my first real long day.
|
On April 21 2012 03:47 Miiike wrote:
hihi running thread. I'm training for my first real race in a while and I wanted to bounce a few ideas off of you all.
Background: I used to be an XC (17:00 5k) guy in HS and a collegiate hurdler (400ih), got into cycling after I graduated college in 2008 and have been bike commuting moderate distance to work every day since. I'm sort of training for a half-marathon on short notice and I'm trying to figure out the best way to prep myself. Ideally I would have given myself much more time to build up a base, but I dont have that chance. Race day is May 27th. I'd consider myself in good shape, but haven't ran much the past 4 years outside of some 5ks.
Since I'm bike commuting 5 days a week, I'm trying to limit my weekday running to 2 times of 3 or 4 miles with a long run on the weekend. I have 5 weekends left and am trying to make the most out of what little training I'm going to be doing. Do you think this will be an effective strategy to get me through the half-marathon in a decent time (goal is sub 2:00), or is there a smarter way to go about this? I'm planning on doing a very slow 9 or 10 with a friend tomorrow as my first real long day.
I don't know what kind of mileage you ran in HS, and how much you did endurance running in college (with the focus on 400m hurdles) but it's obvious you have a good aerobic engine. 17 flat is nothing to sneeze at.
If your weight is anywhere near what it was in HS I would be really, really shocked if you didn't blow 2:00 out of the water. Yea, you haven't run much but at the same time your aerobic conditioning should still be in ok shape given the biking. It's nowhere near the same as if you had been running the whole time but still miles better than general inactivity.
It would be helpful to know what sort of time you have run those 5Ks in when you've jumped in them to given us a little better idea where your actual running fitness stands.
As far as training, just run as much as you can without really wearing yourself down. Given that you ran in HS and college you should have a pretty good feel for listening to your body and not totally overdoing things. I don't see any reason to limit your weekday running (unless your time constrained); shoot for 5 or 6 days a week regardless. If training feels good and you feel comfortable with the idea throw in a longer run of 7-10 miles just to get an idea of how you feel being on your feet for that larger duration of time.
|
I've been going on random 1-1.5 mile runs on days off weightlifting. Every time I'd have really bad pain in my lower back. This has been the case for the past 2 months. So 2 days ago, I couldn't sleep, and just went outside to go on a run. I didn't bring shoes or anything, just ran around my campus barefoot (and caused a huge stir because the quad is full of damn holes so I kept wiping out and apparently a ton of people saw me :x)
Except even after my normal circuit, twice now I was only slightly winded. It's like my endurance rocketed up 2x. More importantly, when I just go in my bare feet I don't have any back pain. I used to run a lot as a kid, too, and always did it barefoot. I was notoriously dubbed "the robot" for always being injury free even after the most ridiculous collisions. I've actually had weird sensations of my ankles and knees weakening over the past 3 years during which I've ceased all serious athletics (until the past year when I picked up lifting again.)
That's my story. I'm certain getting rid of shoes has helped my back so I'd like to continue running without them. Whether or not being barefoot makes me immune to injury...well it's likely I'm delusional. I have two questions:
1) Where can I get shoes which aren't shoes but would just protect my feet from glass/rough sidewalks?
2) I still haven't legitimately tracked myself distance or speed wise so I have no idea where my limit is. I'm entering a half-marathon next fall and I want to dominate it, but I'll be pitted against basically my entire college's track/running teams. I don't care for the sports at all, I just genuinely enjoy running. What should I know so I don't kill myself through exhaustion or dehydration?
|
On April 21 2012 15:16 KurtistheTurtle wrote:
I've been going on random 1-1.5 mile runs on days off weightlifting. Every time I'd have really bad pain in my lower back. This has been the case for the past 2 months. So 2 days ago, I couldn't sleep, and just went outside to go on a run. I didn't bring shoes or anything, just ran around my campus barefoot (and caused a huge stir because the quad is full of damn holes so I kept wiping out and apparently a ton of people saw me :x)
Except even after my normal circuit, twice now I was only slightly winded. It's like my endurance rocketed up 2x. More importantly, when I just go in my bare feet I don't have any back pain. I used to run a lot as a kid, too, and always did it barefoot. I was notoriously dubbed "the robot" for always being injury free even after the most ridiculous collisions. I've actually had weird sensations of my ankles and knees weakening over the past 3 years during which I've ceased all serious athletics (until the past year when I picked up lifting again.)
That's my story. I'm certain getting rid of shoes has helped my back so I'd like to continue running without them. Whether or not being barefoot makes me immune to injury...well it's likely I'm delusional. I have two questions:
1) Where can I get shoes which aren't shoes but would just protect my feet from glass/rough sidewalks?
2) I still haven't legitimately tracked myself distance or speed wise so I have no idea where my limit is. I'm entering a half-marathon next fall and I want to dominate it, but I'll be pitted against basically my entire college's track/running teams. I don't care for the sports at all, I just genuinely enjoy running. What should I know so I don't kill myself through exhaustion or dehydration?
For shoes:
Vibram 5 Fingers
http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/products/mens_footwear.htm
Huaraches
http://www.invisibleshoe.com/how-to-make-huaraches/
For not dying:
Eat and drink enough the day before and of the race. Don't run into oncoming traffic, off any cliffs, into any quicksand, or at any people with loaded guns pointed at you.
|
hahaha. ok, im going with skittles then
|
Thanks for the advice, L_Master. Yeah, I think I'll be in good shape, it's more of a do my best while transitioning safely back into mileage building for the future -- I want to get back into running as I miss it quite a bit. I think I needed someone to tell me that 5-6 while commuting is the right way to go.
I've done the 5ks with minimal (read: like none) prep around 24-ish. I ran 3.2 in 25 flat training on Weds because I'm an idiot and can't pace myself. I get it in my head that I should "test myself" every run. I'm dumb.
|
|
|
I can definitely tell it works different muscles in my legs I haven't used since soccer. I think shoes make you use your feet differently
|
On April 22 2012 01:49 KurtistheTurtle wrote:
I can definitely tell it works different muscles in my legs I haven't used since soccer. I think shoes make you use your feet differently
Yes, it definitely changes the landing of the foot to some extent. Whether that is a bad thing...the jury is still out though I'm not really convinced it necessarily is.
On April 21 2012 22:39 Miiike wrote:
Thanks for the advice, L_Master. Yeah, I think I'll be in good shape, it's more of a do my best while transitioning safely back into mileage building for the future -- I want to get back into running as I miss it quite a bit. I think I needed someone to tell me that 5-6 while commuting is the right way to go.
I've done the 5ks with minimal (read: like none) prep around 24-ish. I ran 3.2 in 25 flat training on Weds because I'm an idiot and can't pace myself. I get it in my head that I should "test myself" every run. I'm dumb.
Yea, that's perfectly reasonable to do, unless your bike commute was like 25+ miles each way. "Doubling" is just a part of routine training for the majority of serious runners, and obviously triathletes frequently do the same. As long as your not killing your bike commutes to work you shouldn't really have any problems other than maybe some initial fatigue within the first few weeks as you adjust to doubles. As always start out on the easy + low mileage side as you adjust and then build up.
I'm actually surprised at your 5K time, I would have thought it would have been faster, especially since you have stayed generally in shape. I don't think it's anything to be concerned about though and alot of the running fitness will come back in a hurry once you start doing some more running.
2) I still haven't legitimately tracked myself distance or speed wise so I have no idea where my limit is. I'm entering a half-marathon next fall and I want to dominate it, but I'll be pitted against basically my entire college's track/running teams. I don't care for the sports at all, I just genuinely enjoy running. What should I know so I don't kill myself through exhaustion or dehydration?
This tells me you want to go in and actually race it, especially since you mention your up against your college's track/xc team (this is actually REALLY surprising to me, pretty odd for a college team to do a fall half when they have XC to worry about). Nothing at all wrong about racing it, just realize you don't really have any chance of touching any of the guys on the track/xc team (unless you go to some small, obscure D2/D3 school). Most collegiate runners are good for at least 16 in the 5k, if not better which means we can expect them to be running under 1:20 even if they just jog the thing.
As with the other people interested in running a half the first thing you need to do is build up your run frequency and mileage so that you can begin to build up your aerobic conditioning and develop enough of a base to support actual workouts. As I've mentioned before I like the framework of starting out at 2-3 miles a day 2-3 days a week and adding a day each week until your at 6 or 7. Then gradually add on 3-5 miles each week sprinkled over the course of the week. If one week feels to hard and is leaving you really fatigued make sure your running easy enough, and then repeat the same week until it doesn't feel so brutal. It's wise to have a cutback week every 3-4 weeks or so where you do half of what you did before.
Once we get that frequency and mileage up we can start looking at some workouts to do to get you somewhat prepared to race the half marathon.
|
Sweet day at the London Marathon.
Mary Keitany's performance was fabulous; after going steady for the first 32km she blitzed the final 10km in 31:33 to finish in 2:18:37! This was the fastest final 10km split EVER and she absolutely blew away the field in those last few miles.
On the men's side Wilson Kipsang's performance was equally stellar. He crushed the best men's marathon field ever assembled by over two minutes. Towards the midpoint Kipsang actually threw in a surge that dropped the rabbits and resulted in a 5K split of a blistering 14:09! He slowed a little at the end and didn't quite get the CR (easily could have if he had known how close he was) but really what does that matter when you just crushed a field full of 2:03 and 2:04 guys by OVER TWO MINUTES.
I can only assuming Kipsang is a lock for the Olympics. Which leaves 5 other to be decided on: G. Mutai (DNF @ Boston), E. Mutai (2:08:01, 7th today), A. Kirui (2:07:56, 6th), Mosop (2:05:03), P. Makau (DNF, dropped out at 20km)
If I was AK I would be picking Kirui as he is a two time world champ (non-rabbited race) and has won almost every non-rabbited race he has run in. Guess what the olympics is? Additionally his time/place today, while not amazing, is less than "deserved". He ran a great race and really tried to battle Kipsang and unfortunately paid the price in the last 2km where he bonked hard.
I'd also pick G. Mutai because he is a monster. Dominated at both major marathon last years (oblitered the NY course record down to low 2:05's and NY is a very hilly, very tough course). Moreover he looked good in Boston until the heat caused him some severe problems, this could even be advantageous because he essentially just ran an 18 mile training run and will be much ahead of the guys who raced this week on recovery (there is a HUGE difference between MP for 18 miles and doing the full race). Adding to that Mutai has been very strong in XC, telling me he can handle hills, uneven terrain, and sharp turns (of which London course has quite a few).
Mosop's time wasn't bad, but Rotterdam is a fast course and he didn't win against a medium field. E. Mutai's 2:04:40 at London last year was good, but he hasn't done much of not since and was generally uninspiring today. Makau, being the WR holder, is a tougher one to exclude but he doesn't have as much racing pedigree and is untested in more competitive, rabbitless races. The fact that he dropped out at before 20km is also pretty concerning.
VOD Highlights:
Womens:
Mens:
|
Absolutely baffled, not sure if its a one off but its a weird anomoly if its true! I changed my lifelong technique from a natural heel strike to the suggested ballstrike. It was like learning to walk again, I sometimes landed only on my toes and sometimes still landed on my heels, it felt extremely unnatural and I got pretty sore hamstrings and chaffed skin on the frontal part of my feet as payment (realised these two must not be used as much in heelstriking).
However, despite that, with the same effort I lopped off a whole minute per mile, what on earth?! Is that normal? Why does forefoot striking suddenly give me such a massive improvement?
|
On April 25 2012 03:10 aloT wrote:
However, despite that, with the same effort I lopped off a whole minute per mile, what on earth?! Is that normal? Why does forefoot striking suddenly give me such a massive improvement?
This may not be scientific, but I felt like the transition naturally caused my cadence (steps per minute) to increase significantly.
|
On April 25 2012 04:45 Miiike wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 03:10 aloT wrote:
However, despite that, with the same effort I lopped off a whole minute per mile, what on earth?! Is that normal? Why does forefoot striking suddenly give me such a massive improvement? This may not be scientific, but I felt like the transition naturally caused my cadence (steps per minute) to increase significantly.
Same thing happened to me. When I started barefoot running I was naturally running on my midfoot. I try to have a more midfoot strike with shoes on too and since then I have a more optimal stride frequency. About 3 strikes per second is ideal.
|
On April 25 2012 03:10 aloT wrote:
Absolutely baffled, not sure if its a one off but its a weird anomoly if its true! I changed my lifelong technique from a natural heel strike to the suggested ballstrike. It was like learning to walk again, I sometimes landed only on my toes and sometimes still landed on my heels, it felt extremely unnatural and I got pretty sore hamstrings and chaffed skin on the frontal part of my feet as payment (realised these two must not be used as much in heelstriking).
However, despite that, with the same effort I lopped off a whole minute per mile, what on earth?! Is that normal? Why does forefoot striking suddenly give me such a massive improvement?
Just like swinging your arms is an fundamental motion in running so is running on your front/midfoot. Your body is finally running in the most optimal form and so you're seeing improvement.
I got some blisters when I switched to midfoot running but the skin will toughen up over time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2006/staley14v.jpg)
