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On April 14 2012 10:27 infinity21 wrote:
It certainly wasn't easy but not all out. I was getting out of breath and was losing steam but if it were a race, I could've pushed myself a bit further. I did manage to hit nearly the same pace half an hour after my first half mile (with a sprint in between) but it was a bit slower and a bit shorter but with a higher climb. Sounds pretty vague but it's the best I can describe it lol
Could I have gone faster? Probably not by much.
On a scale from 1 to 10, 10 being maximal effort, I'd say first half mile was ~8, second half mile was ~9.
Alright, I'll stick with the paces I have then. I'll be particularly curious to see what kinda of pace you hit for your tempo run, and how your first 800m race goes, and we can adjust accordingly. The real key here is pay attention to how your body feels and run at appropriate efforts.
Easy runs should feel easy. From a pace standpoint you should feel like you could run 50 miles at that effort or something.
Very easy runs are almost stupid easy, slow enough that it borders on awkward, and feels easy enough that it's almost like your not getting any workout at all (these are purely for recovery so we don't need any real stimulus).
Comfortably hard (Tempo) is just that, it's fast...but comfortable. You should feel fast and smooth, breathing heavy but not strained and with a labored stride. Tempo running is all about smooth speed; since working hard is not the goal here err on the side of a little too slow (in your case maybe start 8:15 pace and work down towards whatever feels strong and smooth).
The repeats are pretty relaxed, both are short distance with a significant amount of rest for repeats at roughly 5K pace.
Races are all out (obviously pacing is still important). They should hurt.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Alright cool, I'll start tomorrow. Thanks for writing up all that 
Btw, how should I be warming up for each run? I don't know if there's reason to warm up if I'm doing easy runs but I'd imagine some warm-up would be a good idea for tempo runs or all-out runs.
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On April 14 2012 12:12 infinity21 wrote:Alright cool, I'll start tomorrow. Thanks for writing up all that Btw, how should I be warming up for each run? I don't know if there's reason to warm up if I'm doing easy runs but I'd imagine some warm-up would be a good idea for tempo runs or all-out runs.
I usually do a 20 minute 2-3 mile MU and 2-3 mile CD for workouts/races/tempo/etc with a few strides thrown in.
That's probably alot more running than you want to do. So even something simple like 5-10 min jog, 3-4x100m quickish strides, but not sprinting (5:00-6:00 pace) w/full recovery, then maybe 2-3 min pause, after that go into the run. Feel free to ease into the first repeat, or ease into the tempo. Like first 200m could be say 60 -> 58 -> 55's.
Strides are basically just fast pick-ups of maybe 15-20s (approx 100m) at around 800m-mile race pace. You take as much recovery as needed to be back to normal breathing. They are not meant to be a workout and just serve to stretch your legs and help a little with neuromuscular coordination for speed. SO basically strides are short enough that your never even close to working hard, and with as much rest as you want to feel 100% refreshed.
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Only warm up for workouts where you are running faster or harder, not for easier runs. 10-20 minutes of easy running and maybe a few strides is fine. For easy runs, just ease into your pace when as feel comfortable doing so. Start slow.
I don't think cooling down really does anything. Some people say they feel better afterwards or the next day but especially for novice runners it's just junk mileage that adds wear and tear to your body when you are probably just better off just laying on the ground eating and drinking to recover . If you're running lower mileage then the more important each mile counts in terms of it having a purpose and being good quality.
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Interesting race and day for me.
On one hand I won...which is pretty cool!
On the other...the time was quite slow, I think right at/around 20:00. Not sure how much of that was weather/course as mapmyrun claims about 350 ft of total uphill and 350 feet of total downhill and we had some solid 20-25 mph wind to add to the fun.
My running was okay, but I was way over conservative on all of the hills (never raced hilly 5k before) and had really alot of gas left in the tank at the end. Honestly that was probably somewhere between tempo and 10K effort overall, as there wasn't really any point in the race I was hurting. My legs were getting a touch heavy towards the end and the breathing was strong but it hadn't started hurting yet.
I just need to race alot more. Only raced maybe 8-10 times so far so I still have a tremendous amount to learn about racing.
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Gz on your win!
Im strugglin with my fibularis brevis muscle. I dont know if its related but everytime i get lighter than 150lbs i get this kind of tendon and muscle problems and feel weaker. When i started running and had about 155lbs weight there were nearly no problems despite the fact that i was new to this sport.
Im 6'1", should i just eat my way up to 155lbs again or cant there be any relation between these problems and my weight?
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Just came back from my run
http://runkeeper.com/user/132688374/activity/81598431
Actual time was just over 27 mins but I was too tired to take out my phone at the end.
More importantly, I had to stop and a walk a couple of times because the sole was brushing against the inside of my feet and it was getting scratched up pretty bad. No bleeding thankfully but I'll have to wear two thick socks next time.
Pace was a little faster than it should've been probably although I swear that's as slow as I can run.. lol
Grats on winning L_Master
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Im 6'1", should i just eat my way up to 155lbs again or cant there be any relation between these problems and my weight?
I'm not sure there is...but it's always hard to know. Are you intentionally dropping to 150 or is just happening naturally through training? I ask because 155 is still a pretty reasonable weight for 6'1" with 150 definitely trending toward the light side of things. Different runners need different weights, and weight is a tricky issue.
I'd say it's also important to ask yourself "how am I feeling in training?" and "how are my race results". Some people can run a great race when they drop a few pounds right before it, but the lighter weight is unsustainable for them to train at full time.
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On April 15 2012 07:11 infinity21 wrote:Just came back from my run http://runkeeper.com/user/132688374/activity/81598431Actual time was just over 27 mins but I was too tired to take out my phone at the end. More importantly, I had to stop and a walk a couple of times because the sole was brushing against the inside of my feet and it was getting scratched up pretty bad. No bleeding thankfully but I'll have to wear two thick socks next time. Pace was a little faster than it should've been probably although I swear that's as slow as I can run.. lol Grats on winning L_Master
How was the effort?
These runs you just want to feel like they are nice light effort, tiredness at the end shouldn't be aerobically drained tired but it is possible to be tired in a sense of the distance and worn out legs.
It feels slow to you because almost certainly most any other running you have done has probably been running in sports and stuff like that which is almost always at a much, much faster pace. That pace will start to feel more natural in a few weeks.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
I don't think I can gauge the effort very well because I was more distracted by the pain in my feet. The first half mile was pretty comfortable but after that my feet started hurting too much. Idk, I wasn't sure if I could finish all 3 miles because hills sap a lot of strength from me. All I know is that my cardio sucks haha
If I can figure out how fast 9-10 min pace is, I think that will be pretty sustainable.
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Hi guys,
I've been running since end of junior high (ran some dinky races in elementary school) and when I first started I could hardly run twice around the track (800m). I've now been able to work up to running 10K in just under 50 min, while my farthest run was 19-20 km at a much slower pace. Just wondering what the best way is to increase my speed, as I would like to enter a couple of 10 K races and win (looks like I need to run 3 min kilometers - 10K in 30 min).
What are the best ways to increase speed and is there any hope for me?
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On April 15 2012 12:38 WoolySheep wrote:
Hi guys,
I've been running since end of junior high (ran some dinky races in elementary school) and when I first started I could hardly run twice around the track (800m). I've now been able to work up to running 10K in just under 50 min, while my farthest run was 19-20 km at a much slower pace. Just wondering what the best way is to increase my speed, as I would like to enter a couple of 10 K races and win (looks like I need to run 3 min kilometers - 10K in 30 min).
What are the best ways to increase speed and is there any hope for me?
Not to put you down or anything, but your in no position to shoot for a 30 min 10K. That's a very solid D1 college runner time. It's something to look towards but not something we even think about now, to do so would be senseless.
Knowing your goal is a lofty one of 30 min 10K (unless you were like capable of 27:00 or something, but those runners almost always would be running low 30's off of whatever your doing.) means you need to be prepared to train hard and seriously for a long time.
The key to getting faster is primarily aerobic development which is improved primarily through a combination of mileage, tempo runs of 20-75 min in length, fartleks, progression runs, long aerobic repeats (think 5-10x1000m @ 5K-10K race pace w/1:00-2:30 recovery), and solid long runs. This is the primary thing you will need to focus on to get faster.
Your goal, being a serious and long term one, is long term development. If your goal was to run as fast a 10K as possible in 6 months you might do some things in training different but our goal here is to develop the best runner possible.
Another word of advice: read, read, read, and read some more. Read about training, racing, nutrition, weight, injuries, etc. Get to know as much as possible: know why you do tempos, what the purpose of peaking workouts are, how to peak, how to structure workouts, how to taper, etc. If at all possible...get yourself a good coach. Having a second pair of eyes even if you do know what your doing is invaluable and for an inexperienced runner like yourself can be instrumentally huge.
Onto the training: since we are looking long term the first thing we need to do is get you to a volume of running that comfortable supports decent training. I'd say we should shoot to get you running 60-80km (40-50 miles) by the end of this summer. How to go about this is simple, just add 5-10km each week to your running total. Run these miles EASY. They do not have to be hard, indeed for now they SHOULD NOT be hard. Every 3-4 weeks do a cutback week where you run half of what you were (so you might go 30 -> 35 -> 45 -> 20 -> 40 -> 50 -> 55 -> 25 -> 55 -> 60 etc.). You don't have to a schedule for this or anything; rather use this time to start paying attention to your body. Use the guideline of easy pace = 10K pace + 1 min/km to develop a FEEL for what easy is (if you run 50min 10k now, easy running would be about 6 min/km, maybe even a little slower). Remember that easy is NOT a pace. It is ALWAYS an effort. Also use this to start learning how to pay attention to your body overall, if one week left you feeling too drained...don't increase further. Go ahead and repeat the tough week, running easier as needed.
From there we will look to begin adding workouts to your regular week in replacement of some of the easy days to start working with faster paces and more high end aerobic development. Keep in mind that mileage alone (yes, even at a VERY easy pace) will allow you to improve quite a bit.
Basically we would look to have 2 "peaks" each year (as you near a peak workouts tend to get more race specific and often more intense) at where you are trying to run your fastest. The rest of the year is slightly lighter running (still can, and should, be plenty of workouts in there) where we work primarily on aerobic base. You can think of it as aerobic base is near limitless pool of improvement you can draw on, but it is slow to draw from. Your intense peaking/anerobic work prepares you specifically for your race and has rapid improvements, but the well is small and shallow, and rapidly dries back up (usually 6-8 weeks is all it takes to max out anerobic capacities and lactate tolerance/clearance). After that you stop adapting to that stimulus and it's time to go back and get aerobically stronger.
Each year we will also shoot for a general increase in global volume (a.k.a. mileage/kilometerage) of about 15-25 km per year, but an end goal of somewhere around 160-200km/100-130M (depends ALOT on athlete) per week; especially in times of base building (might lessen some during season as you work towards your more intense race specific workouts and intervals).
That got a little long, but I wanted to give you a general overview of where we are looking to go if your serious about trying to become a really good runner. If you have further questions by all means ask away!
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On April 15 2012 07:18 L_Master wrote:
I'm not sure there is...but it's always hard to know. Are you intentionally dropping to 150 or is just happening naturally through training? I ask because 155 is still a pretty reasonable weight for 6'1" with 150 definitely trending toward the light side of things. Different runners need different weights, and weight is a tricky issue.
I'd say it's also important to ask yourself "how am I feeling in training?" and "how are my race results". Some people can run a great race when they drop a few pounds right before it, but the lighter weight is unsustainable for them to train at full time.
When im just training and eating without being concerned about weight it clearly goes up to 155. In training camp, when i trained twice a day for a whole week, i came home and wondered that i got from 151 to 155. Did not feel tired or weak at this time. Then i was like 'you need to get your weight down boy' and started controlling my eating habits again and went down to 149-150 again. Then the problem with my foot arose 2 days after a race in training.
I think i should eat more, maybe my body needs that much to recover properly. These 5lbs shouldnt affect my times that much, im not a 14minute or 2:20 marathon runner so no need to keep me superthin atm i guess.
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On April 15 2012 17:36 Occultus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 07:18 L_Master wrote:
I'm not sure there is...but it's always hard to know. Are you intentionally dropping to 150 or is just happening naturally through training? I ask because 155 is still a pretty reasonable weight for 6'1" with 150 definitely trending toward the light side of things. Different runners need different weights, and weight is a tricky issue.
I'd say it's also important to ask yourself "how am I feeling in training?" and "how are my race results". Some people can run a great race when they drop a few pounds right before it, but the lighter weight is unsustainable for them to train at full time. When im just training and eating without being concerned about weight it clearly goes up to 155. In training camp, when i trained twice a day for a whole week, i came home and wondered that i got from 151 to 155. Did not feel tired or weak at this time. Then i was like 'you need to get your weight down boy' and started controlling my eating habits again and went down to 149-150 again. Then the problem with my foot arose 2 days after a race in training. I think i should eat more, maybe my body needs that much to recover properly. These 5lbs shouldnt affect my times that much, im not a 14minute or 2:20 marathon runner so no need to keep me superthin atm i guess.
I'm curious as to why you are worried about your weight in the first place. When you are training and logging a lot of miles, its important that you keep eating to keep your body happy. I wouldn't be eating McDonald's for every meal, but I wouldn't be restrictive either.
As long as you aren't feeling sluggish because you are overeating, I would personally stop focusing on your weight and as L_Master said concentrate on how you are feeling during training. You're not going to run that much faster by dropping a few pounds, but I can bet if you're not taking in enough calories you'll continue to see problems / underperform.
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On April 16 2012 07:36 L_Master wrote:Monstrous: http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1145092If there was ever a doubt about the Olympic 10K/5K favorite, I think it's safe to say it's gone now.
His talent is beyond amazing. It really is a shame I'm not going to London, seeing him win gold for what I assume is his last olympics on the track.
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Wow...Geoffrey Mutai drops out; that could be huge for him given that Athletics Kenya has yet to select it's olympic marathon team. Wesley Korir gets the win in 2:12:40 with some really smart, consistent running.
Hopefully we get great weather for London next week as it could be epic with Makau (2:03:38), Kipsang (2:03:42), Kirui (2 Time Marathon World Champion), and Emmanuel Mutai (2:04:40 London CR). Crazy field and should be one heck on an awesome race.
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On April 15 2012 13:39 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2012 12:38 WoolySheep wrote:
Hi guys,
I've been running since end of junior high (ran some dinky races in elementary school) and when I first started I could hardly run twice around the track (800m). I've now been able to work up to running 10K in just under 50 min, while my farthest run was 19-20 km at a much slower pace. Just wondering what the best way is to increase my speed, as I would like to enter a couple of 10 K races and win (looks like I need to run 3 min kilometers - 10K in 30 min).
What are the best ways to increase speed and is there any hope for me? Not to put you down or anything, but your in no position to shoot for a 30 min 10K. That's a very solid D1 college runner time. It's something to look towards but not something we even think about now, to do so would be senseless. Knowing your goal is a lofty one of 30 min 10K (unless you were like capable of 27:00 or something, but those runners almost always would be running low 30's off of whatever your doing.) means you need to be prepared to train hard and seriously for a long time. The key to getting faster is primarily aerobic development which is improved primarily through a combination of mileage, tempo runs of 20-75 min in length, fartleks, progression runs, long aerobic repeats (think 5-10x1000m @ 5K-10K race pace w/1:00-2:30 recovery), and solid long runs. This is the primary thing you will need to focus on to get faster. Your goal, being a serious and long term one, is long term development. If your goal was to run as fast a 10K as possible in 6 months you might do some things in training different but our goal here is to develop the best runner possible. Another word of advice: read, read, read, and read some more. Read about training, racing, nutrition, weight, injuries, etc. Get to know as much as possible: know why you do tempos, what the purpose of peaking workouts are, how to peak, how to structure workouts, how to taper, etc. If at all possible...get yourself a good coach. Having a second pair of eyes even if you do know what your doing is invaluable and for an inexperienced runner like yourself can be instrumentally huge. Onto the training: since we are looking long term the first thing we need to do is get you to a volume of running that comfortable supports decent training. I'd say we should shoot to get you running 60-80km (40-50 miles) by the end of this summer. How to go about this is simple, just add 5-10km each week to your running total. Run these miles EASY. They do not have to be hard, indeed for now they SHOULD NOT be hard. Every 3-4 weeks do a cutback week where you run half of what you were (so you might go 30 -> 35 -> 45 -> 20 -> 40 -> 50 -> 55 -> 25 -> 55 -> 60 etc.). You don't have to a schedule for this or anything; rather use this time to start paying attention to your body. Use the guideline of easy pace = 10K pace + 1 min/km to develop a FEEL for what easy is (if you run 50min 10k now, easy running would be about 6 min/km, maybe even a little slower). Remember that easy is NOT a pace. It is ALWAYS an effort. Also use this to start learning how to pay attention to your body overall, if one week left you feeling too drained...don't increase further. Go ahead and repeat the tough week, running easier as needed. From there we will look to begin adding workouts to your regular week in replacement of some of the easy days to start working with faster paces and more high end aerobic development. Keep in mind that mileage alone (yes, even at a VERY easy pace) will allow you to improve quite a bit. Basically we would look to have 2 "peaks" each year (as you near a peak workouts tend to get more race specific and often more intense) at where you are trying to run your fastest. The rest of the year is slightly lighter running (still can, and should, be plenty of workouts in there) where we work primarily on aerobic base. You can think of it as aerobic base is near limitless pool of improvement you can draw on, but it is slow to draw from. Your intense peaking/anerobic work prepares you specifically for your race and has rapid improvements, but the well is small and shallow, and rapidly dries back up (usually 6-8 weeks is all it takes to max out anerobic capacities and lactate tolerance/clearance). After that you stop adapting to that stimulus and it's time to go back and get aerobically stronger. Each year we will also shoot for a general increase in global volume (a.k.a. mileage/kilometerage) of about 15-25 km per year, but an end goal of somewhere around 160-200km/100-130M (depends ALOT on athlete) per week; especially in times of base building (might lessen some during season as you work towards your more intense race specific workouts and intervals). That got a little long, but I wanted to give you a general overview of where we are looking to go if your serious about trying to become a really good runner. If you have further questions by all means ask away!
Wow! First off, let me say thank you for taking the time to talk to me directly. While part of me is saddened when I realize I can't do this overnight, I recognize that it is a long term process. My long term goals are to be able to run a sub 2:45 marathon, and the 30 min 10K. Part of me thinks that if I can build up to the marathon then the 10K will be a lot easier, but I am unsure. I'm going to be rereading your post and come up with a plan. Plans might get a little hectic as I am getting married this weekend, we are buying a new house and I just started a new job .
As for reading - I received this book for Christmas and have started going through it.
Again, I appreciate your guidance and help and will let you know how it goes!
P.S. - what are some of your times? You a long distance runner or a sprinter?
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Wow! First off, let me say thank you for taking the time to talk to me directly. While part of me is saddened when I realize I can't do this overnight, I recognize that it is a long term process. My long term goals are to be able to run a sub 2:45 marathon, and the 30 min 10K. Part of me thinks that if I can build up to the marathon then the 10K will be a lot easier, but I am unsure. I'm going to be rereading your post and come up with a plan. Plans might get a little hectic as I am getting married this weekend, we are buying a new house and I just started a new job . As for reading - I received this book for Christmas and have started going through it. Again, I appreciate your guidance and help and will let you know how it goes! P.S. - what are some of your times? You a long distance runner or a sprinter?
A sub 2:45 marathon is not even on the same level as a 30 min 10k. A sub 30 10k is getting pretty elite and if you could run under 30 for the 10k I'd bet my life that you could run a sub 2:30 marathon. Probably closer to 2:25.
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On April 17 2012 07:03 WoolySheep wrote:Wow! First off, let me say thank you for taking the time to talk to me directly. While part of me is saddened when I realize I can't do this overnight, I recognize that it is a long term process. My long term goals are to be able to run a sub 2:45 marathon, and the 30 min 10K. Part of me thinks that if I can build up to the marathon then the 10K will be a lot easier, but I am unsure. I'm going to be rereading your post and come up with a plan. Plans might get a little hectic as I am getting married this weekend, we are buying a new house and I just started a new job . As for reading - I received this book for Christmas and have started going through it. Again, I appreciate your guidance and help and will let you know how it goes! P.S. - what are some of your times? You a long distance runner or a sprinter?
Me? I'm a distance guy for sure, I don't have a whole lot in the speed department (mid 13's HT at best for 100m), though I might get a little faster if I ever get down to a good racing weight.
My long term goals are to be able to run a sub 2:45 marathon, and the 30 min 10K. Part of me thinks that if I can build up to the marathon then the 10K will be a lot easier, but I am unsure.
The marathon goal is MUCH easier than the 10K aside from the fact that a marathon generally requires more miles and more can go wrong. a 2:45 marathon is equivalent to a low 35 min 10K. A 30 min 10K guy could be expected to run close to 2:20 for the marathon. Both races are hard, just different kinds of hard. A marathon in long, exhausting, and demands that you just keep going even when you want to stop. A 10K is a much faster race that hurts/burns much more, and there is a constant battle not to give in to the discomfort and slow down.
I don't think you mentioned how much you are running but for now in terms of a plan I would just make it a goal to get to where your running 6 or 7 days a week (some runners like 7, others like a total rest day) and eventually to where each of those days is at least 10+km. Don't rush this as you don't want to invite overuse injuries. Try to listen to your body and if everything feels good you can keep increasing a little each week. If it's feeling tough, repeat a week or even take a down week where you do like half of what you were doing before.
Once you get to that point you'll have enough mileage/base and experience to be able to handle real training and workouts without overly stressing yourself.
EDIT: If you happen to know it I'd be curious about what your fastest 100m/200m/400m times are if you happen to know any of them. Speed is definitely a little bit relevant when it comes to wanting to even consider times like 30:00 for the 10K. That's 4:50 mile pace/3:00 km pace and if you don't have enough speed there is no way you'll ever be able to run relaxed enough at that pace to sustain 10k.
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