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On April 11 2012 05:49 Occultus wrote:My next race is a 3k in the first week of may, going to be my first 3k ever! 10:15 would be cool, 9:59 is only a dream :D Hilly races are good for mentality, im lacking some hard and hilly xc events from winter.  Only did 2 and i really have this mental problem that i cant push myself for the last 600 metres.
If that 3K is on the track 10:15 should be very much in range. 10:00 might be a longshot, but that depends both on how your training goes till then, how "good" of a race that 5k was, and the type of competition you get. I wouldn't go so far as to rule it out though.
If you want to race to 17:00 I'd be down as that's more of a long-term goal I'll be looking to shoot for after I get sub 5 for the mile.
Only did 2 and i really have this mental problem that i cant push myself for the last 600 metres
This sounds like my issue. My racing "toughness" just isn't there. I get to the like 60-80% of the way through where it really starts to get tough and I tend to be very weak. Often I'll pull it back together in the last bit...but it's not enough to make up for the losses in the middle portion.
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Ok lets race to 17 flat. Maybe i can get it this year.
Never raced with spikes on track so lets see how it goes. Got some 400's and 200's repeats till then.
About the toughness: Yeah the last 20% feel really hard and i cant get the kick for the last 400metres. I mean i can barely hold my pace but you need the kick to win something
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On April 11 2012 16:36 Occultus wrote:Ok lets race to 17 flat. Maybe i can get it this year. Never raced with spikes on track so lets see how it goes. Got some 400's and 200's repeats till then. About the toughness: Yeah the last 20% feel really hard and i cant get the kick for the last 400metres. I mean i can barely hold my pace but you need the kick to win something
This is why I detest the 400. I was a big fan of the 1600 in high school, it was distance without being painful like the 3200 always was for me. 400 was just fucking brutal, can't treat it like a true sprint, I had a bad habit of going out too fast and dying on the second turn. At least it's over with fast.
Also spikes on the track feel insane at first, it's like the picking up the speed shoes in the old Sonic games.
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I actually enjoy the treadmill. Am I weird? I like it because you can watch tv while you run, and you can get off and get water when you are tired. You also don't deal with freezing cold wind or rain. Just seems much nicer to me.
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On April 11 2012 19:30 AyahuascaSage wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 16:36 Occultus wrote:Ok lets race to 17 flat. Maybe i can get it this year. Never raced with spikes on track so lets see how it goes. Got some 400's and 200's repeats till then. About the toughness: Yeah the last 20% feel really hard and i cant get the kick for the last 400metres. I mean i can barely hold my pace but you need the kick to win something This is why I detest the 400. I was a big fan of the 1600 in high school, it was distance without being painful like the 3200 always was for me. 400 was just fucking brutal, can't treat it like a true sprint, I had a bad habit of going out too fast and dying on the second turn. At least it's over with fast. Also spikes on the track feel insane at first, it's like the picking up the speed shoes in the old Sonic games.
Yea, if you go fast your legs tie up so fcking bad coming around the turn into the back straight. I don't even know how to describe the 400m. It's sorta hurts, but it's really more just fighting the burning and crazy mode feeling of rigor mortis in that last 100m.
I don't know how you find the mile to be non-painful. That's crazy! It's short lived but those third and fourth (especially if your TT) are pretty brutal.
On April 12 2012 01:36 fatfail wrote:
I actually enjoy the treadmill. Am I weird? I like it because you can watch tv while you run, and you can get off and get water when you are tired. You also don't deal with freezing cold wind or rain. Just seems much nicer to me.
Hey whatever works is good, no?
Can't say I ever enjoy the mill...but I don't hate it either. I find I can't really ever focus on the TV usually because my focus is usually on my running. If a basketball game of something is on I can watch that sporadically but no way can I do something like a movie.
Can't agree with you on the weather though haha..running in the elements is epic for me. Nothing like being out there when it's 10 degrees with near whiteout snow, or out in the middle of a massive summer thunderstorm. Something about being out in that primal weather just does it for me. Not to mention the looks from passerby are always hilarious!
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You are not weird, you just have a completely different approach on running. I view it totally different. (For me) Running is letting the everyday life behind you. No Television, no Internet, not stopping for anything (i dont do ultralong sessions 2hours+ so i dont need to drink while running), and being in the nature and learning to deal with everything. Running in arctic temperatures and rain is not that funny but you really enjoy it when summer comes. So for me running is just leaving the everyday comfort zone of the modern world.
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I agree with L_Master and Occultus. I like being outdoors in extreme conditions. I see extreme weather of any kind as a challenge from momma nature. Crazy winds, downpour, blizzard, humidity, whatever it may be it makes a run that much more intense and interesting.
Like what Occultus said, I like running because it helps me live in the moment and feel at one with the universe. That's the best way I can describe it.
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On April 12 2012 01:36 fatfail wrote:
I actually enjoy the treadmill. Am I weird? I like it because you can watch tv while you run, and you can get off and get water when you are tired. You also don't deal with freezing cold wind or rain. Just seems much nicer to me.
Its pretty nice, especially when its winter over here.. dont really feel like going outside running when its -40°C (which would make you get frostbite in your face and you wouldnt be able to breathe because its way too cold)
Now "extreme" conditions isnt a little snow or rain (like 10 degrees F) im talking Arctic temperatures 
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I wish I loved running outside that much.
By 40 minutes, I'm bored out of my mind. You get on the treadmill with a good movie playing, and the next hour is just gone.
Unrelated note: I have no sense of pace while running. I took everyone's advice, and started running every day this week. So far, I've ran about about a 7.5 minutes per mile (my loop is 2.6 miles long). I was aiming for around 8 minutes per mile.
Good problem to have 
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On April 12 2012 06:11 ghost_403 wrote:I wish I loved running outside that much. By 40 minutes, I'm bored out of my mind. You get on the treadmill with a good movie playing, and the next hour is just gone. Unrelated note: I have no sense of pace while running. I took everyone's advice, and started running every day this week. So far, I've ran about about a 7.5 minutes per mile (my loop is 2.6 miles long). I was aiming for around 8 minutes per mile. Good problem to have
Heh, I would never be able to focus on a movie while running, or at least not well enough for a new movie I hadn't seen or something. Could probably watch something like the Matrix where I could just tune out/in but I spend too much time focusing on my running to pay full attention to a movie. Probably why I don't get bored outside and don't even find it the end of the world if I have to run on the treadmill with no music/TV/entertainment.
I've ran about about a 7.5 minutes per mile (my loop is 2.6 miles long). I was aiming for around 8 minutes per mile.
I don't know how hard this is for you, and to be honest you probably don't either, but it tell me your in at least pretty decent shape and maybe really solid shape. If this pace is truly easy for you running 5K (3.1 miles) in 18:00-18:30 should be no problem. I have no doubt that you could run at least faster than 22:30 min for 5K.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
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5 minute pace is pretty damn quick. I don't think even the top guys around here can manage 5 flat pace for too long. Billtown Runner I think is close to that for 5K, and iirc Airblade's 5K PR works out to around 5:20 pace. So for most "good runners" 5:00 pace is hard...not the kind of thing you can run comfortably at for more than a few minutes.
For the top college runners though, and certainly olympic/WC caliber guys 5:00/mile pace is a nice, aerobic pace and 4:30-4:40 pace is a quick, but comfortable effort. Mind-blowing!
If you really wanna go experience the insanity that is elite level running go find a track and run one lap is 61 seconds (there is a good chance this will be almost/completely sprinting). If 400m sounds a little to far then just do 100m: 15.25 is about WR 5K pace, and 13.75 is roughly 1500/mile WR pace. hen realize that people do that for 3.1 miles. Even reading about it and knowing it and everything it really remains something I cannot fathom.
Its pretty nice, especially when its winter over here.. dont really feel like going outside running when its -40°C (which would make you get frostbite in your face and you wouldnt be able to breathe because its way too cold) Now "extreme" conditions isnt a little snow or rain (like 10 degrees F) im talking Arctic temperatures
-40C...Christ that's cold! Around 0/-17 is about the coldest I'll do for running outside. If I need a full parka and gloves aren't going to keep my hands warm enough...that's gg. Headin inside.
I think the coldest we have ever had here is about a week where temperature never rose about -10/-23 and that was DAMN cold. Can't imagine another 15+ degrees C colder....
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Mind boggling indeed. Looking at world record runs really puts things in perspective. I was pretty much sprinting to get 5:01/mi pace (although I was already pretty tired from the previous runs). P.S. I hate taking tight corners haha it takes all my momentum away and it's so tiring to bring my speed back up.
I have no aspirations to run long distances but I'd be interested in seeing how fast I can run a mile. Any advice on a training routine? Since I already strength train 3 times a week, I'd be able to run completely fresh only once a week. Though if it's some slower-paced stuff, I can do it after my workouts.
Also, I gotta play with my runkeeper settings a bit.. anyone familiar with it?
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hmm i got a question, i've been running for some time now and is up to about 50 km per week.
The last 2 days i've been out running i tried wearing a pulse watch, and i just couldn't get my pulse down in the recommended range for slow runs, even at pace 40 sec/km slower than i ran a half marathon a couple of weeks ago, i cant run any slower without it becoming acward, feels weird already running pace where i could almost walk as fast.
So would you advice me to just run at the slowest speed i find possible or should i take walking breaks when my pulse gets to high, until its in range again?
another question i wondered about is if i do other cardio, what is the best pulse reserve range to train in if i want to gain from it, for running aswell.
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Throw the pulse watch away and run whatever you feel like. Ask young boys in Iten what their heart rate is like when they run. I can tell you, they dont care.
The only time you want to run slow is regeneration pace after hard sessions/races, otherwise there is no need to slow down yourself. Especially as a non competitive runner. Everytime you run faster than your estimated "low pulse pace" you automatically train your endurance like its low pulse plus something extra.
You feel it when your pulse goes too high, cause you get exhausted and have to push yourself. The more you need to push the closer you get to the threshold. If you really pay attention you can learn to feel that exact point where you reach your threshhold.
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The last 2 days i've been out running i tried wearing a pulse watch, and i just couldn't get my pulse down in the recommended range for slow runs, even at pace 40 sec/km slower than i ran a half marathon a couple of weeks ago, i cant run any slower without it becoming acward, feels weird already running pace where i could almost walk as fast.
So would you advice me to just run at the slowest speed i find possible or should i take walking breaks when my pulse gets to high, until its in range again?
Ignore heart rate. Learn to run by feel. HR can be close to accurate, especially if you know your true maximum (can vary significantly from any of the estimated ones); but it can still have quite a bit of day to day variation. For some days I find 140 to be "high end easy" and other days 150-155 can feel "very easy". The only way that is reasonably close to accurate for measuring effort is to have a blood lactate analyzer handy.
Running should generally be about feel anyway. Easy is not a HR, AnT (anerobic threshold) is not a HR, 5K race pace is not a HR..they are all feel and effort levels. There is nothing wrong with using a HR monitor IF you are just occasionally noting it and overall running be feel. HR is nice because you can see over time how you used to run maybe 10:00 pace for a loop at a certain HR and now running at 9:20 pace elicits the same HR.
I have no aspirations to run long distances but I'd be interested in seeing how fast I can run a mile. Any advice on a training routine? Since I already strength train 3 times a week, I'd be able to run completely fresh only once a week. Though if it's some slower-paced stuff, I can do it after my workouts.
o.O
Not sure how you intend to prepare for a mile if you don't intend to run long distances. But maybe we have different ideas of how "long distances". If your willing to run 3-4 miles in a given session then we can do some stuff but if to you long distance is like 2-3 miles...not much training you can do with that. Things like a 2M run, or 2x1000m w/2min recovery, etc aren't really long enough to get a good training stimulus from. The difference between say a 2M and a 4M run or a 4x400m and an 8x400m workout is quite significant.
It also depends when your targeting trying to run this mile. Do you wanna train for a few weeks and see what you can do? A few months? A Year? How much time your willing to devote and when you want to run the mile will significantly alter any training recommendations we can give you.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Yeah by long distances I meant running marathons and stuff, not 2 miles haha
I don't really have a target date or a goal. My only constraint is that it shouldn't interfere too much with my strength training routine which means I can't tire myself out silly during every run. I think I can devote a maximum of 2 light sessions and 1 heavy effort session per week.
I'm thinking I'll start with a shorter-term goal so maybe 1 month? I don't even know what a good target time is since I have basically 0 experience & knowledge with running. Based on what I did last night, what do you think is a reasonable goal for 1 month? I haven't even run a full mile yet but I'm sure I could do it if I ran slower
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On April 14 2012 08:49 infinity21 wrote:Yeah by long distances I meant running marathons and stuff, not 2 miles haha I don't really have a target date or a goal. My only constraint is that it shouldn't interfere too much with my strength training routine which means I can't tire myself out silly during every run. I think I can devote a maximum of 2 light sessions and 1 heavy effort session per week. I'm thinking I'll start with a shorter-term goal so maybe 1 month? I don't even know what a good target time is since I have basically 0 experience & knowledge with running. Based on what I did last night, what do you think is a reasonable goal for 1 month? I haven't even run a full mile yet but I'm sure I could do it if I ran slower
Okay, let's work into it; but since your goal is a little more short term oriented and it looks like you have okay basic fitness level we'll do some things different a little different than the theme of the thread. This won't quite be setup to run the "fastest possible mile within one month" but it will have some generally more intense stuff and be geared toward building some aerobic base as well.
Something like this is probably reasonable, but aggressive in one sense. If you start feeling discomfort/pains/etc back off and just do some light easy running
Wk1:
Day 1 - 3M easy in 27-30 min (this is not about hitting pace, it's about running easy. pace is just a guideline if your looking for general idea of how fast to start)
Day 2 - 2M easy in 18-20 min
Day 3 - 4M progression, start almost shuffling/walking first mile, maybe down to 10-11 min/mile during second mile, 9 min for 3rd mile, then last mile picking it up faster to fast, but still tolerable...don't murder yourself. You can rip the last 1-2 min if you wan't but not so hard your tying up.
Wk2:
Day 1 - 3M easy in 27-30 w/4x100m strides (around 5:30 pace is good)
Day 2 - 8x200m intervals in 55sec w/90 sec slow jog in between
Day 3 - 800m Time Trial (a.k.a. all out 800m/half mile/2 laps), followed by 3M easy or very easy
Wk3:
Day 1 - 3M Tempo in approx 24 min (this is also by effort, should be comfortably hard/fast. You shouldn't be dying, but you would also be okay with slowing down. Most people run these to hard so err on the side of slow and pick it up as you go on if your feeling great. These runs are as much about making "fast feel easy" as they are about their contribution to AnT)
Day 2 - 3M easy/very easy
Day 3 - 2M Time Trial (all out), 1M up/1M down very easy
Wk4:
Day 1 - 4-6x400m in 1:45-1:50 w/2min jog recovery
Day 2 - 3M easy w/4-6x100m strides
Day 3 - Mile Time Trial (All out)
Also do tell me how hard those two half mile efforts were? Could you have gone any faster? How bad were they hurting at the end? That will give me alot better idea to your fitness as I am somewhat guessing in the dark with these paces for some of the workouts.
From what I see now, I'd guess maybe 6:35-7:00 for the mile but ALOT depends on just how hard those half miles were.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
It certainly wasn't easy but not all out. I was getting out of breath and was losing steam but if it were a race, I could've pushed myself a bit further. I did manage to hit nearly the same pace half an hour after my first half mile (with a sprint in between) but it was a bit slower and a bit shorter but with a higher climb. Sounds pretty vague but it's the best I can describe it lol
Could I have gone faster? Probably not by much.
On a scale from 1 to 10, 10 being maximal effort, I'd say first half mile was ~8, second half mile was ~9.
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EPT
