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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
Another Idea I have either heard or maybe just thought about is the effect of inertia on a treadmill compared to a non moving surface. Check this conversion chart for pacing and inclines. I wouldn't take it as the absolute running truth but it's at least something interesting to consider. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On April 05 2012 12:49 AirbladeOrange wrote: I've heard you're supposed to run at a very small incline on a treadmill to counteract air resistance. I have always set my inline on treadmills to 1.0. This idea has been debated and I'm not really sure what the accurate conclusion is. But really it has little effect regardless of the conclusion. Another Idea I have either heard or maybe just thought about is the effect of inertia on a treadmill compared to a non moving surface. Check this conversion chart for pacing and inclines. I wouldn't take it as the absolute running truth but it's at least something interesting to consider. I've heard this as well, the 1.0 incline that it. I could see how the lack of air resistance could make a difference as a 6-12mph wind isn't entirely insignificant when it comes to running. I think either way though it probably doesn't make a ton of difference as you can always just set the speed of the treadmill to get the desired intensity that your looking to get. I know some people who find they can run easier and faster on the mill, and others who find it harder and can never quite match their outside training paces indoors on the mill. | ||
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
On April 05 2012 11:57 L_Master wrote: It does? Maybe, arguably, it uses less energy (although if anything it would be because of lack of air resistance). Fortunately, this is easily fixed by running a few seconds per mile harder. If anything you could argue that as being beneficial as your getting to work with faster paces. Sorry if this comes off as hostile...it isn't meant to be. I just don't think there is anything wrong with treadmill running. It works for guys like Haile Gebreselassie, Kenenisa Bekele, Galen Rupp, Bernard Lagat, etc and several notable coaches (Alberto Salazar comes to mind) heavily advocated it's use. Needless to say, that's good enough for me. I can't find the study I read it from a long time ago, the best I can find is this http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/tipsandtricks/a/treadincline.htm Which goes to source at the bottom "A 1% treadmill grade most accurately reflects the energetic cost of outdoor running. Journal of Sport Science, 1996" So it's not even difficult for a treadmill to match the energy it takes to run outdoors. And it's fine that you enjoy treadmills, I just don't like them.  | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On April 05 2012 16:30 dudeman001 wrote: I can't find the study I read it from a long time ago, the best I can find is this http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/tipsandtricks/a/treadincline.htm Which goes to source at the bottom "A 1% treadmill grade most accurately reflects the energetic cost of outdoor running. Journal of Sport Science, 1996" So it's not even difficult for a treadmill to match the energy it takes to run outdoors. And it's fine that you enjoy treadmills, I just don't like them. Oh, thank you for linking that! Can't say I really enjoy running on the mill (is that even possible? ), but I just don't think there is anything wrong with using it as a training tool. | ||
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Occultus
Kenya138 Posts
this saturday is my next 5k race after i lost whole february due to some knee and femur injuries after cold and poorly arranged xc runs. (it was an 8k race on a veeery hilly course, but somehow i went 'dun give a shit lets go 5k road pace' -mode and surprise surprise, after 5k is lost all my power like somebody unplugged my legs and i got a turn muscle because of fatigue since i pushed me through it and finished somehow.) March went supercool at all. Did a one week training camp with 120km, was able to fasten the pace on my easy runs (its about 4:45/km now) and did some nice workouts. Best was 12x400 at 78-80 seconds with 1minute rest two weeks ago. This week is about reducing kilometres for the race. 18:15 should be in range, but ofc im dreamin a little bit about the sweet 17:xx  | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
Best was 12x400 at 78-80 seconds with 1minute rest two weeks ago. This week is about reducing kilometres for the race. That's a pretty good workout. You can almost certainly run 5:10 or better in the mile with that. Not sure how much it says about the 5K but if it's a reasonably flat road course I'd be surprised if you didn't run at least 18:15 and shocked if you didn't run under 18:30. Assuming your adequately trained/prepared for the 5K that is...and the reason I bring that up is 10-12x400m w/1 min recovery is basically the quintessential, iconic milers workout. Maybe you were doing it as some sort of sharpening workout soon before the race, but I don't know your training. What kinds of times have you been getting for say 20-30 min tempos and for like 800m/1k/1200m/mile repeats? | ||
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Occultus
Kenya138 Posts
Since im relatively new to runnning (10 months now) and my injury in february, my coach wants me to build up slowly. Hammering in workouts with certrain times comes for summer. Sharpening before the race was this tuesday. 2x1000m in 3:20 and 3:28 (first one was too fast, was supposed to do 3:25-3:28 but it felt not hard at all) and 1x400 in 68s. 4min rest between the runs. As i said this may sounds weird but i like this kind of training so far. Its not fast or very hard at all but i keep improving and there is still some room for development when summer or next season comes. Main goal right now is to build up base speed, strengthen muscles and athleticism. In fall were going to review the season and decide which distance we aim for in the long term. But at least im sure that ill beat my current 5k pr of 18:57. ;P | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
On April 06 2012 17:32 Occultus wrote: I know it sounds weird but nearly all my workouts were some kind of fartlek, 400-1200-1600-2000-1000 pyramid at 10 to HM pace, xc races, road races on weird distances like 4kilometres, 4x4 barefoot hill sprints on the beach or 4x4 300m hill runs in the forest. (hill workouts were at very high intensity) Since im relatively new to runnning (10 months now) and my injury in february, my coach wants me to build up slowly. Hammering in workouts with certrain times comes for summer. Sharpening before the race was this tuesday. 2x1000m in 3:20 and 3:28 (first one was too fast, was supposed to do 3:25-3:28 but it felt not hard at all) and 1x400 in 68s. 4min rest between the runs. As i said this may sounds weird but i like this kind of training so far. Its not fast or very hard at all but i keep improving and there is still some room for development when summer or next season comes. Main goal right now is to build up base speed, strengthen muscles and athleticism. In fall were going to review the season and decide which distance we aim for in the long term. But at least im sure that ill beat my current 5k pr of 18:57. ;P When is your season and off season? | ||
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Occultus
Kenya138 Posts
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Occultus
Kenya138 Posts
Development of my PRs: May/June: started running June 2011: 25:20 August 2011: 21:24 Septemper 2011: 19:44 New year 2011/2012: 18:57 April 2012: 17:57 Im scared of myself O.O | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
Also, I'm wondering about my pacing. Right now, when I run, I'm doing about 8 minute miles for five+ miles when I run. I've found that that makes a pretty good workout. That a good pace for someone training for a half marathon, or do I need to start kicking it into high gear? | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On April 07 2012 22:36 Occultus wrote: Race is over, did a 17:57! Development of my PRs: May/June: started running June 2011: 25:20 August 2011: 21:24 Septemper 2011: 19:44 New year 2011/2012: 18:57 April 2012: 17:57 Im scared of myself O.O This is VERY similar to what I have been up to haha April - 6:10 mile (probably 22:00-22:30 5K shape) July - 4M in 27:06 Aug - 10K in 41:36, 5K in 19:21 Oct - 5K in 18:19 Haven't really raced since then but I have to think from my tempos I'm in at least 18 flat shape, probably better. On the downside today's race was garbage. 2M in 12:18. That's what happens when you do a stupid workout 2 days before the race. Tried to do 10x400m @ 75s w/2:00 rest, then 4x200m at 34-35...problem was it was super, insane windy with gusts of 40+ and sustained 20-25 and so I hammered like hell just to stay in the vicinity of those paces. Not sure how much the fact that it was a trail 2M affects the paces but I'll probably do a tempo at a faster clip than that 2M later this week. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
That's a pretty good workout. You can almost certainly run 5:10 or better in the mile with that. Not sure how much it says about the 5K but if it's a reasonably flat road course I'd be surprised if you didn't run at least 18:15 and shocked if you didn't run under 18:30. Called it. Sorta. When you told me that the 10x400m thing was a sharpening workout in the context of more solid 5K training with long aerobic intervals and LT like intervals I was pretty certain you'd be able to go under 18:00. Great to see it happen! | ||
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Occultus
Kenya138 Posts
Also ran without a (gps) watch for the first time. Just paced by feeling and later sticked to a 17:30group (they had a coach on bike shouting splits) as long as possible. | ||
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AyahuascaSage
31 Posts
As for right now I'm hella out of shape and working back into running, I've always had an extremely hard time running alone so I might look for a club or a running buddy to get in touch with and stay honest. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
So much good, solid advice here. | ||
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Occultus
Kenya138 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
Right now, I've been doing 20, running three days a week. I just don't have the time to run more often than that. Should I start thinking about running more, or is that a good distance for how often I work out? Some of it comes down to priorities but I generally don't buy it when people say they don't have time to run more than 3 times a week. All you have to do is squeeze in a little 20 minute chunk here or there, which can usually be done plenty of times during the day..it's a small and convenient enough chunk of time to fit anywhere. Barring that you can just wake up or go to bed 20-30 minutes earlier/later. I know several people that work 40-60 hours a week, have kids, and still run everyday and have some friends that are working full time to get through college and are able to work out daily no problems. That isn't meant to call you out or anything though. Alot of people are just used to their normal routine and haven't though of how they could re-arrange a thing or two to find the time to run. If you truly cannot it's not the end of the world though. how often would you expect me to be running doing 30mpw? I'd like to see at least 5 days a week, but realistically more like 6/7 or even 13/14. Consistency is HUGE in running. Having a stimulus each day results in a MUCH greater training effect than having the stimulus once couple days or once every few days. For all but the newest of runners a twice a week, or even 3 days a week, stimulus is usually not enough to allow for improvements and in some cases may not even be enough for fitness maintenance. Right now, I've been doing 20, running three days a week. Should I start thinking about running more, or is that a good distance for how often I work out? Yes. Definitely. I'd shoot to get as high as 40, or even 50, IF your body is okay with it and you feel good. Forcing the mileage is reckless and stupid however. Right now, when I run, I'm doing about 8 minute miles for five+ miles when I run. I've found that that makes a pretty good workout. That a good pace for someone training for a half marathon, or do I need to start kicking it into high gear? That's probably way to fast. 8 flat pace is the fastest I would expect someone running say a 5:45 mile or 20:00 5K to run normally, and more often I'd expect it to be closer to 8:15 or so. If you have some recent race results I probably would have a better idea but my hunch is that it's much too fast especially since your saying it gives a "good workout". Most of your running should not be a "good workout" but rather leave you feeling refreshed and strong. That says something about the level of pace that is most appropriate for general aerobic runs. You also need to be thinking about some longer runs, getting in a few 8 milers, and maybe one 10 miler is strongly advised. It will help you adapt to being on your feet for a while and give you pretty good idea about what the race will feel like so your also prepared well mentally. I think L_Master recommended earlier that I hit around 30 mpw within a month or so to start getting ready for that. Sort of. Personally I don't see any reason to do a half marathon if you haven't been running at least a year, arguably more with a decent bit of mileage and experience under your belt. The reason is if you jump in from minimal to no running to wanting to do a half in 6 months the best your going to be able to do is get trained enough to survive it at a slow slog relative to your abilities. Usually this is not a particularly fun or enjoyable experience (though some people do get a sense of satisfaction from completing a race like this) and generally encourages people to do too much, too soon with their training which hurts their enjoyment of running and potentially their improvement especially if they fail to pay attention and wind up injured. I also just believe it's generally more fun and less stressful to prepare for, and run a decent 5K in something like low-mid twenties, getting a decent placement as well than it is to go out and survive a 2+ hour slog. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On April 06 2012 22:48 Occultus wrote: Off season from oct to mid march. National xc were 2 weeks ago. Track season starts at may. I'm slightly confused by this. You say off season was oct-mid march but then said national xc was two weeks ago (week or so past mid march). How can you be ready for nationals if you were just starting more intense training a week before . o.O The 12x400m workout w/1 min rest is also definitely an intense, anaerobic, mile and/or peaking workout which would make no sense in March/April if you were literally just coming out of your off season. Where did I go wrong? | ||
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ghost_403
United States1825 Posts
(More than likely, I'll be the one pissed at my smell. I sweat like you would not believe.)I haven't entered any races or have any good times to use for comparison. I guess I should look into getting some of those. I've been physically active on a regular basis for over two years now, and been jogging/running for probably 9 months now. A couple of months ago, I realized that I actually enjoy running, so I decided to use the half marathon to really motivate me into running consistently. Today, I did 7 miles on the treadmill in a bit under an hour, and it felt really good. I've got plenty of time to work my way up to a two hour slog without it killing me. Edit: Just exercised my googlefu, and found like 20 5k's around me in the next couple of weeks. Looks like I know what I'm doing April 14th. | ||
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