EPTRunning Thread - Page 29
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SolaR-
United States2685 Posts
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SolaR-
United States2685 Posts
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fatfail
United States386 Posts
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
On April 01 2012 06:12 fatfail wrote: I got a 5:45 on my 1600M race, which personally, I find pretty fast. Sadly, I was last place anyways. Hey that's great! :D That's faster than the best 1600 time I got in high school. Just keep pushing yourself and keep improving.  | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On April 01 2012 05:13 SolaR- wrote: 58:50 on my first 10k, i suck. Nah dude, not at all. For a first 10k that's quite respectable. Alot of first timers doing 10k either have to go really slow or take several walk breaks throughout the race. I got a 5:45 on my 1600M race, which personally, I find pretty fast. Sadly, I was last place anyways. High school race? Can't think of too many places besides HS varsity or college races where 5:45 is going to get you dead last. Definitely a respectable time, and depending on how much more of your season is left you could easily drop 10-15s off that depending on training and background. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
Dunno what time to target. Probably go out a little soft and if all feels good after first 800 or so start picking it up. | ||
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Jedclark
United Kingdom903 Posts
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SolaR-
United States2685 Posts
On April 03 2012 10:13 L_Master wrote: Nah dude, not at all. For a first 10k that's quite respectable. Alot of first timers doing 10k either have to go really slow or take several walk breaks throughout the race. Thanks for the encouragement. I'll be running another 10k next month. Hopefully I can improve my time a little. Do you have any advice on avoiding shin splints? It keeps me from training more regularly =/ edit: Oh yeah the last 10k i ran was the Richmond Monument 10k. I didn't know this before, but I heard recently that its the biggest 10k race in the nation o.o. There was like 41,000 runners this year. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On April 04 2012 11:19 SolaR- wrote: Thanks for the encouragement. I'll be running another 10k next month. Hopefully I can improve my time a little. Do you have any advice on avoiding shin splints? It keeps me from training more regularly =/ edit: Oh yeah the last 10k i ran was the Richmond Monument 10k. I didn't know this before, but I heard recently that its the biggest 10k race in the nation o.o. There was like 41,000 runners this year. I'm NOT an injury expert, but from what I have noticed it seems like shin splints are most common in more flat footed individuals and maybe the most common injury to get from doing too much, too soon. If you not already doing it..run on soft surfaces. Avoid the crete like the plague and try to stay of things like asphalt as much as possible. The more you can run on dirt/trails the better. If it's really consistent perhaps consider talking a podiatrist (that knows running) to see if orthotics might be of help. What does a typical week of training look like for you. Like weekly mileage, paces, and workout types? | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2574 Posts
On April 04 2012 12:31 L_Master wrote: I'm NOT an injury expert, but from what I have noticed it seems like shin splints are most common in more flat footed individuals and maybe the most common injury to get from doing too much, too soon. If you not already doing it..run on soft surfaces. Avoid the crete like the plague and try to stay of things like asphalt as much as possible. The more you can run on dirt/trails the better. If it's really consistent perhaps consider talking a podiatrist (that knows running) to see if orthotics might be of help. What does a typical week of training look like for you. Like weekly mileage, paces, and workout types? As a person who has had a really hard time with shin issues over the past few years I gotta say that the term shin splints doesn't mean anything other than your shins hurt. Where they hurt, how much they hurt, and when they hurt all are important factors when trying to figure out your problem. | ||
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
On April 04 2012 11:19 SolaR- wrote: Thanks for the encouragement. I'll be running another 10k next month. Hopefully I can improve my time a little. Do you have any advice on avoiding shin splints? It keeps me from training more regularly =/ edit: Oh yeah the last 10k i ran was the Richmond Monument 10k. I didn't know this before, but I heard recently that its the biggest 10k race in the nation o.o. There was like 41,000 runners this year. Are you using proper running form i.e. your heel doesn't touch the ground? If you do have them though then just rest, ice and massage. Basically all you can do for shin splints. | ||
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don_kyuhote
3007 Posts
On April 01 2012 06:12 fatfail wrote: I got a 5:45 on my 1600M race, which personally, I find pretty fast. Sadly, I was last place anyways. hehe running a sub 6 1600M was a goal of mine in middle school that I never achieved. Last time I ran a timed mile was in 8th grade and I ran a 6:39 | ||
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SolaR-
United States2685 Posts
On April 04 2012 12:31 L_Master wrote: I'm NOT an injury expert, but from what I have noticed it seems like shin splints are most common in more flat footed individuals and maybe the most common injury to get from doing too much, too soon. If you not already doing it..run on soft surfaces. Avoid the crete like the plague and try to stay of things like asphalt as much as possible. The more you can run on dirt/trails the better. If it's really consistent perhaps consider talking a podiatrist (that knows running) to see if orthotics might be of help. What does a typical week of training look like for you. Like weekly mileage, paces, and workout types? Since I am new to running, I've been taking it slow. I've been running about 20 miles a week, and biking 25 miles a week. I also lift three times a week. I've been running about a 9 minute mile pace for long distances. I do not do any specific workout types yet, I just try to get 20 miles a week, and have one of those day be a 6.2 mile run. Half of my running is on the treadmill, and i think that might be part of the problem. I am also running on cheap 30 dollar shoes. They're the only viable shoes I have, the rest are dress or converse shoes for squats. I think bad shoes and the treadmill combined with being new to running might be the issue. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On April 05 2012 03:34 SolaR- wrote: Since I am new to running, I've been taking it slow. I've been running about 20 miles a week, and biking 25 miles a week. I also lift three times a week. I've been running about a 9 minute mile pace for long distances. I do not do any specific workout types yet, I just try to get 20 miles a week, and have one of those day be a 6.2 mile run. Half of my running is on the treadmill, and i think that might be part of the problem. I am also running on cheap 30 dollar shoes. They're the only viable shoes I have, the rest are dress or converse shoes for squats. I think bad shoes and the treadmill combined with being new to running might be the issue. Okay, I somewhat expected this. You say you are running 9 minute pace for your running. This is 27 seconds faster per mile than your 10k race pace. This would basically mean your running faster than 5K race pace every run (this also tells me that 10K is fairly soft b/c nobody is going to go out and hammer 5K pace everytime they run, that would be miserable). Now, you may not have raced your 10K all out but it still tells me your normal running is massively too fast. 9:00 flat pace is an appropriate pace for someone who is maybe a mid 40's 10K runner. Even if we assumed you could run 6 minutes faster for 10K if you were all out racing it (which is likely generous, a minuter per mile is significantly faster) your runs should be more in the 10:00-10:30 pace range, but in your case something closer to 11:00 pace if probably most appropriate. That's potentially the biggest reason for your shin splints right there. For someone very new to running 20mpw is a respectable, but manageable, number; but not when combined with moderate to intense paces on every run. I think making your runs truly easy will help alot both with injuries and with ease of increasing mileage. The other good news is what you tell me suggests you can almost certainly race quite a bit faster, maybe anywhere from 2-4+ minutes faster at 10K at your current fitness level. | ||
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aloT
England1042 Posts
I have three questions: 1) I hear the word "injury" alot, but as far as I am aware, a non-contact sport related injury is different from other ones, what exactly is a running injury? (if possible, not just for running, but also lifting if you can answer). 2) What is the difference between running on a treadmill and on a dirt track? 3) How do you measure your distance when the path you run is entirely countryside, with no markers and not even a path on google maps? | ||
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AeroGear
Canada652 Posts
On April 04 2012 11:19 SolaR- wrote: Thanks for the encouragement. I'll be running another 10k next month. Hopefully I can improve my time a little. Do you have any advice on avoiding shin splints? It keeps me from training more regularly =/ edit: Oh yeah the last 10k i ran was the Richmond Monument 10k. I didn't know this before, but I heard recently that its the biggest 10k race in the nation o.o. There was like 41,000 runners this year. Rest, and diversify your training routine perhaps. I've had shin and knee strain/fatigue when I was running 40-50 km a week. Nowadays I mostly do 30 min pyramid and 30 min intervals runs, with a weekly or bi-weekly ~1hour run, I probably run less than 20 miles a week. Running less actually enabled me to increase my average pace from 12 to 14 km/h. Better shoes would probably help but I think its mostly about running form and smooth impact. Keep in mind that when muscles/tendons are tired and cant support anymore, bones are next in line to take the strain/fatigue. Also make sure you use a minimum incline 1.5-2.5% if you do run on a threadmill. I am by no means an expert btw, I've been running for 16 years and I intend to keep doing so, injury free! One last advice I can give is that, when you do go out to get new shoes, head to a shop specialized in runners apparel. They can evaluate your form and type of stride, to give you the proper shoes. | ||
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SolaR-
United States2685 Posts
On April 05 2012 04:10 L_Master wrote: Okay, I somewhat expected this. You say you are running 9 minute pace for your running. This is 27 seconds faster per mile than your 10k race pace. This would basically mean your running faster than 5K race pace every run (this also tells me that 10K is fairly soft b/c nobody is going to go out and hammer 5K pace everytime they run, that would be miserable). Now, you may not have raced your 10K all out but it still tells me your normal running is massively too fast. 9:00 flat pace is an appropriate pace for someone who is maybe a mid 40's 10K runner. Even if we assumed you could run 6 minutes faster for 10K if you were all out racing it (which is likely generous, a minuter per mile is significantly faster) your runs should be more in the 10:00-10:30 pace range, but in your case something closer to 11:00 pace if probably most appropriate. That's potentially the biggest reason for your shin splints right there. For someone very new to running 20mpw is a respectable, but manageable, number; but not when combined with moderate to intense paces on every run. I think making your runs truly easy will help alot both with injuries and with ease of increasing mileage. The other good news is what you tell me suggests you can almost certainly race quite a bit faster, maybe anywhere from 2-4+ minutes faster at 10K at your current fitness level. Thanks. I definitely thought I could of ran the 10k faster, but I don't think it was lack of effort. The 10k I ran had 41,000 people, and I started in a late wave. I was continually getting blocked by walls of people, which i think hurt my time a bit. If i run a 10k in practice, I usually run a bit slower. The 9 minute pace is usually on 2-4 mile run days. I agree, I think I might be going too fast, but I am greedy T_T | ||
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phyre112
United States3090 Posts
On April 05 2012 04:35 aloT wrote: Hello everyone, a newbie runner here. I have three questions: 1) I hear the word "injury" alot, but as far as I am aware, a non-contact sport related injury is different from other ones, what exactly is a running injury? (if possible, not just for running, but also lifting if you can answer). 2) What is the difference between running on a treadmill and on a dirt track? 3) How do you measure your distance when the path you run is entirely countryside, with no markers and not even a path on google maps? There are definitely more qualified individuals in this thread to answer, but I'll help where I can - 1) Injuries in contact sports usually result from taking on a lot of force at an angle your body isn't used to or expecting it to come from - a knee or a shoulder being popped in the wrong direction, and straining, pulling, or tearing the tendons, ligaments, and muscles that support that joint. Broken bones happen the same way, just not around a joint. In non-contact sports, short of you falling down (or dropping a weight on your foot) that isn't likely to happen, so the most common injuries here are "overuse" injuries, where you push your body beyond what it is able to recover from, and pieces start to "wear down" - tendons and ligaments especially, can become inflamed, or can even stretch out, and will be unable to do their jobs as well as would be desired. That's not to say you can't have injuries in running (falling) or in the weight room (especially if you have poor form) that won't be similar to contact-sports injuries, it's just that an overuse injury is more common. 2) I don't know the biomechanics of it, I just know that I hate treadmills. I long legs, so they make my stride awkward, and they make it difficult to adjust your pace, since you need to change the belt speed to slow down or speed up. 3) After a while of running you'll become quite good at estimating distances. If that's not enough for you (and you don't live in a city), run on the side of a road, over in the grass. I used to use telephone poles to estimate a distance when I ran in highschool, they're usually on pretty standardized spacing. When you get home, you can then google-map the distance. If you're willing to spend some money, I know people used to use things like nike+ to measure distance... I'm just getting back into running, but I would expect by now that there are smartphone aps that will do the same thing, since most smartphones have a GPS in them? | ||
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dudeman001
United States2412 Posts
On April 05 2012 03:34 SolaR- wrote: Since I am new to running, I've been taking it slow. I've been running about 20 miles a week, and biking 25 miles a week. I also lift three times a week. I've been running about a 9 minute mile pace for long distances. I do not do any specific workout types yet, I just try to get 20 miles a week, and have one of those day be a 6.2 mile run. Half of my running is on the treadmill, and i think that might be part of the problem. I am also running on cheap 30 dollar shoes. They're the only viable shoes I have, the rest are dress or converse shoes for squats. I think bad shoes and the treadmill combined with being new to running might be the issue. Being new to running is your likely source of shin splints. Bad (read: cheap) shoes are not a problem at all. More expensive shoes do absolutely nothing to prevent injury and, in fact, have in some studies shown to cause more injuries. When you're running, always be ready to take a moment to assess your body's condition. Think about if your breathing is smooth or if you're gasping for air. Feel if your legs are landing and kicking back properly. Make sure your arms and back are as they should be. Doing a quick form check in the middle of your run will help you avoid injuries, make the natural running form more natural, and most importantly let you know when you're pushing yourself too hard. Also try stay away from treadmills because ... On April 05 2012 04:35 aloT wrote: 2) What is the difference between running on a treadmill and on a dirt track? Running on a treadmill uses less energy. That's not what you want to have happen when you're trying to get fit. I don't know the exact science behind it, but I believe treadmills suck because you don't/can't drive yourself forward. You're just bouncing up and down while the group moves itself "forward" for you. I generally hate machines at a gym because they make the workout easier since you don't have to use stabilizer muscles while lifting. The same is mirrored with running. A dirt track, on the other hand, is probably close to the best you could run on because dirt is much easier on the legs than concrete. I personally rank running surfaces from worst to best going treadmill - concrete - dirt - grass. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On April 05 2012 04:35 aloT wrote: Hello everyone, a newbie runner here. I have three questions: 1) I hear the word "injury" alot, but as far as I am aware, a non-contact sport related injury is different from other ones, what exactly is a running injury? (if possible, not just for running, but also lifting if you can answer). Most running injuries are injuries of overuse. For example, running tends to stress certain areas and parts of the body. A good instance would be someone who greater increases the amount they are running and the intensity. Depending on your bodies strength and balance this could stress many different things. One example would be the Achilles tendon: as a result of the constant impact and then stretching (especially on uphills) the tendon can become irritated and inflamed, causing pain. But the short answer is running injuries are 99% of the time are chronic injuries resulting from "too much more running, too much increased intensity, or both; in too short a time frame". 2) What is the difference between running on a treadmill and on a dirt track? I don't know exactly what you are asking. I mean the difference should be obvious....one is a dirt surface the other is a belt surface. Are you asking about difference in how "fast" the surface is? The biomechanics? Which one is better? How they feel? 3) How do you measure your distance when the path you run is entirely countryside, with no markers and not even a path on google maps? Do you just get to go run in fields? That would actually be super enjoyable to be honest. Best you can do is get to know your own pace and you'll start to develop a "feel" for distances. If there are notable landmarks you might be able to use those to google earth it out. If all else fails, just run by time. I.E. 20 minutes our and 20 back. Rest, and diversify your training routine perhaps. I've had shin and knee strain/fatigue when I was running 40-50 km a week. Nowadays I mostly do 30 min pyramid and 30 min intervals runs, with a weekly or bi-weekly ~1hour run, I probably run less than 20 miles a week. I agree with your first sentence. Good advice, and mixing it up some does help as it slightly alters the emphasis of what is worked/stressed. Running less actually enabled me to increase my average pace from 12 to 14 km/h. This is actually fairly obvious. Doing 4-5 days a week at 3-4 miles a day it would be perfectly reasonable for me to do my running at an average clip of like 3:45-4:00/km (6:00-6:30/mile). If I tried to do the same at the 70 mpw I run now I would get destroyed. When your doing that little running the body it's okay for those runs to be more intense. The caveat, however, is improvement. Doing something like low mileage high intensity can yield some really big gains in the first couple months, and maybe even a little longer. When it comes down to it though this is a terrible method for development as a runner. You need solid aerobic stimulus to develop over time a few super short runs a week just don't cut it. There is a reason why US distance running flourished in the 60's/70's, largely sucked in the 80's, and is now back to being pretty strong. The key word is: mileage. First off, general easy running has tons of aerobic benefits (see OP), and you continue to develop throughout a career from this. You need more than easy running to get faster, especially after a decent period of running, but general aerobic conditioning is still by far the largest factor in the ability to get faster. I'm talking 5-10 YEARS at 70-140+ mpw (depending on runner/event type) to get any where near having maxed your aerobic capability. Moreoever, greatly general volume means you can handle more intense stuff. For someone who is used to running 14 miles a day, a workout like 10xmile or 20x400 or an 8-10+ mile tempo run is reasonable stuff. For someone running 30mpw that would be both a LONG run and very high intensity. Even if they survive it they will be way too worn out to benefit well from it and there is a very significant chance of them getting injured from so much intensity. Also make sure you use a minimum incline 1.5-2.5% if you do run on a threadmill. Why? On April 05 2012 04:57 SolaR- wrote: The 9 minute pace is usually on 2-4 mile run days. I agree, I think I might be going too fast, but I am greedy T_T Greedy? This implies there is something to be gained from that. There isn't. Running your easy mileage a little bit faster than what you should has, if any, the tiniest of benefits and comes with MASSIVE negative side effects. It's just terrible training, but also one of the easiest traps to fall into. I'd also be willing to bet it's one of your biggest pitfalls to being able to run more, which is the best thing you can do if your trying to get faster. Running on a treadmill uses less energy. It does? Maybe, arguably, it uses less energy (although if anything it would be because of lack of air resistance). Fortunately, this is easily fixed by running a few seconds per mile harder. If anything you could argue that as being beneficial as your getting to work with faster paces. I don't know the exact science behind it, but I believe treadmills suck because you don't/can't drive yourself forward. You're just bouncing up and down while the group moves itself "forward" for you. It does? I could have sworn the belt moves you backward off the back end of the mill.  Fairly certain if you want to stay on the thing you would need drive forward so that you don't fly off the back. Some people try to argue also that "hills" on the treadmill aren't real because you don't be any net work against gravity. I'm fairly certain this is also a flawed argument though I can't remember the logic off the top of my head. Sorry if this comes off as hostile...it isn't meant to be. I just don't think there is anything wrong with treadmill running. It works for guys like Haile Gebreselassie, Kenenisa Bekele, Galen Rupp, Bernard Lagat, etc and several notable coaches (Alberto Salazar comes to mind) heavily advocated it's use. Needless to say, that's good enough for me. I generally hate machines at a gym because they make the workout easier since you don't have to use stabilizer muscles while lifting. The same is mirrored with running. Agree totally with you about machines at the gym. A dirt track, on the other hand, is probably close to the best you could run on because dirt is much easier on the legs than concrete Amen to that! Stay the hell of the crete when possible. Asphalt is softer than concrete but even that isn't ideal. I personally rank running surfaces from worst to best going treadmill - concrete - dirt - grass. I'd be incline to go more like: concrete -> asphalt -> treadmill -> dirt -> grass (in small doses) | ||
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