On April 16 2011 11:43 Talin wrote: I don't really know much about how coaching generally goes. I'm considering trying it out it lately, but there's one thing that I'm kinda confused about.
The thing is, if I want to learn PvZ in-depth for example, it would make more sense to me to pay for an hour with a top Zerg player than a top Protoss one. But as far as I can read from various threads/vods/etc, everybody seems to be paying for or coaching only players of their own race.
Is it even possible to get a coach for "matchup" coaching, or is that considered bad practice for some reason?
It makes sense because the player of your race knows exactly how to deal with what the zerg can toss at you. A zerg player may know how a toss can counter, but cannot explain to you in detail why like timings on build order and so on, placement of proxies on map etc. Only a toss can do that.
For example, when I was watching the European ESL tournament earlier this week, one caster didn't know much at all about zerg, so the other caster had to keep correct him, especially in ZvZ match ups this caster, being a toss player, obviously had little to no experience of at all. He had basic knowledge of zerg, we all should or we can't play against them, but he lacked that in depth knowledge the other caster had, and this is why you need coaching of someone who plays your race. Tough luck if you play random, though.
And this is why you won't grow. If you've decided you won't grow you simply will not. Playing Starcraft is equally much of training the mind as it is practicing your finger dexterity. Obviously, if a child sits stubbornly on the floor and says "I don't want to!", nothing is going to happen. Having a personal coach can simplify your experience a lot. Just look at the Day9 stream when Day9 coaches djWheat and he basically improves drastically in the course of a couple of games, because Day9 forces Wheat outside his own comfort zone of play which can be very hard to break out of if you are not consciously trying to do that (and sometimes a lot of games simply just won't allow you to do it).
You are entitled your opinion, but your post reveals a lot why you are still in bronze and not in master league.
You are saying this only, because you are geting 25$/h. You know, that if you want to be good, you need to watch your reps by yourself and see what you are doing bad. When you lose, and watch rep after and don;t know what to improve, you NEVER will be good. But the most important thing is to play A LOT! 15, 20 games a day or more. Do you ever play on any instrument? I think not, because if you will, you will know that on guitar, piano one finger in bad place will ruin whole song. In sc2? not. Micro battle coaching? seriously? what are you saing by skype? "click on 3rd stalker and move 2 cm back"? I don't see how you can help in micro by coaching. Everything that you need is tons of hours in sc2. Like in football. Messi play his whole life, and he is the best football player on the world. Not becouse someone say him how to do this. He just play, play and play all the time (yes, he train in barcelona since 13 years old. But he know how to do this, he just need to do it more, to be better, and better). I can only agree with mechanics. Yes, you can help in this. But in my opinion only in this. But ofc, after some games, you will know what to do, and what not. But, if people pay 25$, good for you, that there is someone, that pay for thing like this. I don't see any sense in this.
Practicing doesn't do much if you are practicing the wrong things. Yes, I say that as a guitar player. And no, one mistake in a song does not necessarily ruin the song. The key to being a good performer is how you HIDE your mistakes. I've seen big artists do mistakes LIVE, but people won't notice because 1) most listeners will not know they are there and thus not being aware that it is in fact a mistake and 2) a good musician makes the mistake a part of their play, their performance, so the audience goes "aha, that was a cool trick!".
Missing a macro moment or a micro moment in SC2 CAN make you lose the game, though, but not necessarily, because perfect execution is simply very hard. You think the pros play perfectly? Think again. The reason why they are pros is not because they play perfect, but because the dedication they put into reducing their imperfection. If you are in a mirror match up, the amount of units you have can make a big difference, even if the difference is that you are 2 units less than your opponent. If your opponent and you are equally skilled in micro and have the same upgrades and unit composition and the battle position does not favor either player, then you will loose simply due to poor macro. If you have less units but you won the battle, then you won because the opponent had poor micro.
Again, you speak of things you do not seem to know of well and your attitude yet again reveals why you are "mere" bronze and not in master league. Watching streams and so on help, but all this can be tossed through the window when you have to put things into practice. Theory is always simple and it's simple to sit here on the forums to say "Day9 taught me how to macro through his stream", when what really matters is how you can use that knowledge in practice. My guess is, seeing you claim that you are a bronze player, is that you do not do this very well (yet).
Most people can repeat a build order and their specific timing windows, but do they do this when they play?
I love you for being right and accurate. Now I don't have to write all that stuff. :D <3
[QUOTE]On April 17 2011 09:36 Lea wrote: [QUOTE]On April 16 2011 11:43 Talin wrote: [quote] without possibility to grow.[/quote]
And this is why you won't grow. If you've decided you won't grow you simply will not. Playing Starcraft is equally much of training the mind as it is practicing your finger dexterity. Obviously, if a child sits stubbornly on the floor and says "I don't want to!", nothing is going to happen. Having a personal coach can simplify your experience a lot. Just look at the Day9 stream when Day9 coaches djWheat and he basically improves drastically in the course of a couple of games, because Day9 forces Wheat outside his own comfort zone of play which can be very hard to break out of if you are not consciously trying to do that (and sometimes a lot of games simply just won't allow you to do it).
You are entitled your opinion, but your post reveals a lot why you are still in bronze and not in master league. [/QUOTE]
I decided to removed my answer because i was warmed about my initial post. This for me means that I'm not free to express my personal opinion because goes against someone or something. I think I was friendly, i didn't insulted no one, i did express only my opinion.
Perhaps my post help to push people to give a sense more deep to the life and put a balance between games and real life and this in a portal where the game became a business is not tolerated
So to collaborate to the admins, i decided to remove my answer .
On April 17 2011 22:21 SonPeo wrote: Hmm.. you speak about a child that don't want to grow... no, is not my case. I am old enough to be your uncle or your father, I have a family to maintain, sons that play to Starcraft for fun and not to earn. I would like to push to ratiocinate the other people if have sense to spend money in a coach for a "game". I understand who teach say yes, but who spend for this why should... only to say "i am in diamond/master"!!! In the life there are many priority, I chosen my, time ago. So do not judge the because i am in bronze.... I tell you why i am in bronze.
I'm in bronze because i spend time to work to maintain the family when I back to home play with my sons and a little bit hour i spend for play, I'm not interested to say I'm master or I am the best player in the world is enough that my sons tell me "you are the best" (not in SC2 of course)
If your goal in your live is to play 10 hours at any game, we are very distant views about life.
For all, make your choice considering that is only a game, however if the money are not a problem ad you don't have better way to spend the most time in other then pay for coaching.
Some one in previous post consider culture or music teaching equals to the teach for a game... ...without words.
Regards
I Would really love to know what the purpose of your post in this Thread is?
Do you have a problem with people spending money for something they want to be better at? It was already said that throughout the world , people paid money all the time to get teached. Litteraly for everything. You want to be better at something? You WILL find somebody who is going to teach you. ( At this point we dont talk about the quality of teaching)
Do you have a problem with the rensponsibility the coach takes, considering he takes money so he needs to be well prepared and should try to do his best to teach his student, as there is no way you can know if he's going to do that?
You say you're not interested in being in the masters league. So i understand why you wont consider taking a teaching lesson, as you play this for fun, and fun only. But at the same time i think YOU should understand that there are people who dont play games the way you do.
Nobody in this thread said anything about kids that play 24hours a day, dont get a job, have no friends whatsoever, but somehow you imply that anybody who even thinks about getting a coaching lesson is like that?
I dont think there are lots of people who are actually willing to spend money to get coached that have not thought about if they really want it, or why they want it. They know it is "just" a game. But it isnt just a game like the way it is for you.
So when the purpose of your post is neither to criticize Teaching in general, nor the quality of teaching of the ppl who offered their services, it seems to me that you cannot respect what other ppl want to do with their money. I mean there is no agreement whatsoever, nobody is getting trapped and their money stolen or something like that, so why dont you just open up a post in the general forum and write about your discontent about the way people spend their time and money. That way you can have your discussion there and you dont leave a bad impression here, as the discussion about what is right or wrong really does not belong in this thread.
I want to get coached for some hours cause i want to compete in this game, maybe in some local tournaments etc. It is not to be ultra-successfull, but to make the experience. Others may just want to get better, because they like to get things to the next level. People who will pay for coaching, WANT it, and any reason should be good enough for you as it is not your money. If you dont play this game the way "we" do, please dont criticize our decisions. I really dont get why you're so upset about this Wall of text ending here!
On April 17 2011 14:05 Mr Showtime wrote: Wow, Titan gives a great rate at $20/hr. IdrA charges $150/hr..... that's insanely high, but probably because he isn't a coach first
Idra charges that much because he gets quiet a few people and has a lot more accomplishments then titan . If I needed coaching and had to pick out of the 2 I would pick titan though due to being cheaper.
No offense, but I don't think 25 an hour is even close to worth it for players of this caliber . . . unless you're talking about like really low level players who don't understand the game at all.
[QUOTE]On April 17 2011 22:21 SonPeo wrote: [QUOTE]On April 17 2011 09:36 Lea wrote: [QUOTE]On April 16 2011 11:43 Talin wrote: [quote] without possibility to grow.[/quote]
And this is why you won't grow. If you've decided you won't grow you simply will not. Playing Starcraft is equally much of training the mind as it is practicing your finger dexterity. Obviously, if a child sits stubbornly on the floor and says "I don't want to!", nothing is going to happen. Having a personal coach can simplify your experience a lot. Just look at the Day9 stream when Day9 coaches djWheat and he basically improves drastically in the course of a couple of games, because Day9 forces Wheat outside his own comfort zone of play which can be very hard to break out of if you are not consciously trying to do that (and sometimes a lot of games simply just won't allow you to do it).
You are entitled your opinion, but your post reveals a lot why you are still in bronze and not in master league. [/QUOTE]
I decided to removed my answer because i was warmed about my initial post. This for me means that I'm not free to express my personal opinion because goes against someone or something. I think I was friendly, i didn't insulted no one, i did express only my opinion.
Perhaps my post help to push people to give a sense more deep to the life and put a balance between games and real life and this in a portal where the game became a business is not tolerated
So to collaborate to the admins, i decided to remove my answer .
Regards[/QUOTE] Sorry that happened to you. Don't know when TL became so fascist -_-.
I have been banned several times, not even warned, for simple offenses left and right. It's one of those things where you are not allowed to discuss your own opinion. Also, you are not allowed to discuss what you are or aren't allowed to discuss. It's pretty crazy around here. I wouldn't be suprised if I was warned or banned for this post.
Several times a day I laugh at users who are warned for something that is not even really considered an infraction. It's unfortunate that I don't know if it's an infraction or not, because they are not posted anywhere. The rules that are posted include : "We can do whatever we want." Rules like that, you might as well not even post.
These players are all amazing. Having Titan on vVv is an honor. Anyone is extremely lucky to be coached by him for his rate! Be sure to checkout his appearance on Mr.Bitters stream.
Kyhol and desRow are both great players as well. I am glad they collaborated on this sponsored thread (=
Hi, I'd just like to once again reinforce the idea that if you have $25 sitting around and you haven't given it to desRow for an hour of coaching yet, you're really missing out!
I actually took a shower after my lesson and much to my delight, my chest was mysteriously covered in hair! It's as if he made a man out of me! (I even tried to shave it off but it just grows back like Tim Allen when he becomes Santa). My voice has suddenly become deeper, too. Arguably the best $25 I've spent in a while.
On April 19 2011 02:11 Olsson wrote: Dude that wasn't neccesary...
20 Dollars an hour. Which means like 3 matches of coaching, isn't too much is it?
since ur from sweden 20 US dollars is like 14euro and it's not. Coaches will always go over to make sure they get their point across. In 1hour, you can cover 2match-up. In 2 hours you can cover 3 matchup with at least a game or 2 for each.
Just finished up a lesson with vVvTitan, and I will say he is a very good coach and will work on whatever matchup/struggles you are having. Has a very good understanding of the game and with zerg has a way to FORCE macro games in ZvZ which is a big +1. Good coach, good guy. Definitely recommended
On April 19 2011 02:11 Olsson wrote: Dude that wasn't neccesary...
20 Dollars an hour. Which means like 3 matches of coaching, isn't too much is it?
since ur from sweden 20 US dollars is like 14euro and it's not. Coaches will always go over to make sure they get their point across. In 1hour, you can cover 2match-up. In 2 hours you can cover 3 matchup with at least a game or 2 for each.
Actually sweden uses SEK but yeah, you definitely can get decent coaching in that time. Of course, you won't become a pro in just one session, but if you have the money for like 5 sessions, it's going to have a great effect.
Of course, I believe that a player can improve just as well if they just focus on it deligently, but having a coach makes the process easier and quicker, for a price.
I have listened to some of his coaching lessons , to see his method and such , I am sorry to say but in my eyes he is not worthy of spending money for coaching sessions ,the way he explains different aspects of the game is certainly doubtful at best , while half of what he says is wrong (such as make stalkers for his tanks)
Of course you don't have to believe me or anything like that I just thought I'd point that out before you purchase HIS services , I have no idea how the other 2 coaches do they're sessions so I cannot say anything about them.