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Off-Topic General Discussion - Page 331

Forum Index > The Shopkeeper′s Inn
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Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 18 2013 18:59 GMT
#6601
On October 19 2013 03:56 Roffles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2013 03:50 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:48 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:46 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:45 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
Seriously though shit like 'studies mention' pisses me off because I'm sure there are studies that attempt to quantify 'happiness' in that way.

The fact that some researchers try to allude to the fact that all that matters to general happiness is how people spend their free time and how relaxed they are is serious horseshit. Yeah I'm more stressed now, yeah I get a lot less sleep and am much poorer, but I wouldn't trade the feeling I get when I hang out with him or sit and watch videos of him laughing/playing for hours at a time when I should be studying for anything.
Fuck 'studies.'

Well yeah, you could say the same about drug addiction...

Can you list any benefits of drug addiction to yourself or society in general?

You're happy when your high, and nothing else matters.

Again, trolling or not? Because that doesn't exactly answer my question. Are you advocating a hedonistic lifestyle?

Here comes probably the segway into a very bad conversation:

Marijuana is considered an illegal drug. But what makes this drug illegal and not something like cigarettes? Cigarettes are harmful to both yourself and the society and have little to no benefits known to mankind. Marijuana has many medicinal uses and is less harmful as well as not addicting. In fact, what makes it worse than something like caffeine, a highly addicting drug that plagues many people over the age of 22.

Drugs are good.

Generally what makes drugs illegal to governments is when they're "mind altering", and the only reason alcohol subverts that is because of Prohibition stuff. I agree that marijuana should be legal, even if I wouldn't use it.
It's your boy Guzma!
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
October 18 2013 18:59 GMT
#6602
On October 19 2013 03:56 Roffles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2013 03:50 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:48 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:46 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:45 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
Seriously though shit like 'studies mention' pisses me off because I'm sure there are studies that attempt to quantify 'happiness' in that way.

The fact that some researchers try to allude to the fact that all that matters to general happiness is how people spend their free time and how relaxed they are is serious horseshit. Yeah I'm more stressed now, yeah I get a lot less sleep and am much poorer, but I wouldn't trade the feeling I get when I hang out with him or sit and watch videos of him laughing/playing for hours at a time when I should be studying for anything.
Fuck 'studies.'

Well yeah, you could say the same about drug addiction...

Can you list any benefits of drug addiction to yourself or society in general?

You're happy when your high, and nothing else matters.

Again, trolling or not? Because that doesn't exactly answer my question. Are you advocating a hedonistic lifestyle?

Here comes probably the segway into a very bad conversation:

Marijuana is considered an illegal drug. But what makes this drug illegal and not something like cigarettes? Cigarettes are harmful to both yourself and the society and have little to no benefits known to mankind. Marijuana has many medicinal uses and is less harmful as well as not addicting. In fact, what makes it worse than something like caffeine, a highly addicting drug that plagues many people over the age of 22.

Drugs are good.

+ Show Spoiler +
I won't be here next hour to respond lol

You didn't even touch on the most harmful drug presently in society. Alcohol.
Weed and hemp have many benefits with fewer side effects than plenty of other things that the government is currently heavily taxing and controlling the distribution of.
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 18 2013 19:00 GMT
#6603
On October 19 2013 03:57 ComaDose wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2013 03:50 Requizen wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:47 ComaDose wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:36 Requizen wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:31 ComaDose wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:25 Requizen wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:23 ComaDose wrote:
What fantasy series should I read next?
I'd rather something that's finished.
Read and enjoyed stuff like:+ Show Spoiler +
Wheel of Time
Sword of Truth
all David Eddings
Game of Thrones
Mistborn Trilogy


Try the Dresden Files series. The first few are a bit slow to some people, but it's a fantastic Urban Fantasy series with great main characters and a double dash of Noir/Pulp Mystery.

Is book 15 going to be the last one?
not sure how I will feel about modern fantasy. (they have guns?)

He's expressed that it's going to be at least 20 books capped off with "an apocalyptic trilogy, because who doesn't love apocalyptic trilogies?".

Mortals have guns. In universe, wizards and magic in general fuck with technology, so they can't really carry guns or anything like phones or computers. Harry has a revolver (few moving parts, so it's reliable), but generally slugs it out with gouts of flame or by shooting lines of force into the monster's face.

It's a nice mix of action, character interaction, and mystery, though you can generally figure out most of the mysteries if you're paying close enough attention. Known to have some of the best action sequences in recent writing, in my humble opinion.

That sounds pretty sick. I'm just don't want to go through the torture of waiting for the next book like i did for over a decade with the wheel of time. I've seen it recommended around so many times now though its on my to read list. Maybe another reasonably long trilogy before i settle down for another epic.

He's been very good about 1 per year. Skin Game should be out before Christmas from what I've heard, though he's starting a Steampunk series as well.

He did a High Fantasy series called Codex Alera. It was... meh. Not great imo, not his style or maybe I just don't like pure high fantasy as much.

google Codex Alera:
Show nested quote +

The inspiration for the series came from a bet Jim was challenged to by a member of the Del Rey Online Writer’s Workshop. The challenger bet that Jim could not write a good story based on a lame idea, and Jim countered that he could do it using two lame ideas of the challenger’s choosing. The “lame” ideas given were “Lost Roman Legion", and “Pokémon”.

that sounds pretty fucking good to me
oh and the series is finished? I am a fan of high fantasy so maybe i'll give this one a shot...

Check it out if you want, I didn't like it but that doesn't preclude other people from enjoying it. It had good ideas but I didn't like the flow as much, I'll probably go back to it at some point.
It's your boy Guzma!
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 18 2013 19:04 GMT
#6604
Can't believe you guys all bit onto that roffles bait.
liftlift > tsm
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
October 18 2013 19:04 GMT
#6605
On October 19 2013 03:56 Roffles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2013 03:50 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:48 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:46 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:45 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
Seriously though shit like 'studies mention' pisses me off because I'm sure there are studies that attempt to quantify 'happiness' in that way.

The fact that some researchers try to allude to the fact that all that matters to general happiness is how people spend their free time and how relaxed they are is serious horseshit. Yeah I'm more stressed now, yeah I get a lot less sleep and am much poorer, but I wouldn't trade the feeling I get when I hang out with him or sit and watch videos of him laughing/playing for hours at a time when I should be studying for anything.
Fuck 'studies.'

Well yeah, you could say the same about drug addiction...

Can you list any benefits of drug addiction to yourself or society in general?

You're happy when your high, and nothing else matters.

Again, trolling or not? Because that doesn't exactly answer my question. Are you advocating a hedonistic lifestyle?

Here comes probably the segway into a very bad conversation:

Marijuana is considered an illegal drug. But what makes this drug illegal and not something like cigarettes? Cigarettes are harmful to both yourself and the society and have little to no benefits known to mankind. Marijuana has many medicinal uses and is less harmful as well as not addicting. In fact, what makes it worse than something like caffeine, a highly addicting drug that plagues many people over the age of 22.

Drugs are good.

+ Show Spoiler +
I won't be here next hour to respond lol

What?
I agree with your POV, but you're basing reasoning for things being illegal as having to do with benefits for mankind on the whole, when it is very well known that the governments who make the laws as to what is illegal or not can as well be out for themselves and not mankind on the whole.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
October 18 2013 19:05 GMT
#6606
Roffles is an alcoholic that's why he didn't mention alcohol.
Bronze player stuck in platinum
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 18 2013 19:06 GMT
#6607
On October 19 2013 04:04 wei2coolman wrote:
Can't believe you guys all bit onto that roffles bait.

How is that a bait? It's a fairly common discussion and one that I think people here can constructively have (at least until it hits page 4 and everyone is just bitching hue).
It's your boy Guzma!
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
October 18 2013 19:06 GMT
#6608
On October 19 2013 04:00 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2013 03:57 ComaDose wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:50 Requizen wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:47 ComaDose wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:36 Requizen wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:31 ComaDose wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:25 Requizen wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:23 ComaDose wrote:
What fantasy series should I read next?
I'd rather something that's finished.
Read and enjoyed stuff like:+ Show Spoiler +
Wheel of Time
Sword of Truth
all David Eddings
Game of Thrones
Mistborn Trilogy


Try the Dresden Files series. The first few are a bit slow to some people, but it's a fantastic Urban Fantasy series with great main characters and a double dash of Noir/Pulp Mystery.

Is book 15 going to be the last one?
not sure how I will feel about modern fantasy. (they have guns?)

He's expressed that it's going to be at least 20 books capped off with "an apocalyptic trilogy, because who doesn't love apocalyptic trilogies?".

Mortals have guns. In universe, wizards and magic in general fuck with technology, so they can't really carry guns or anything like phones or computers. Harry has a revolver (few moving parts, so it's reliable), but generally slugs it out with gouts of flame or by shooting lines of force into the monster's face.

It's a nice mix of action, character interaction, and mystery, though you can generally figure out most of the mysteries if you're paying close enough attention. Known to have some of the best action sequences in recent writing, in my humble opinion.

That sounds pretty sick. I'm just don't want to go through the torture of waiting for the next book like i did for over a decade with the wheel of time. I've seen it recommended around so many times now though its on my to read list. Maybe another reasonably long trilogy before i settle down for another epic.

He's been very good about 1 per year. Skin Game should be out before Christmas from what I've heard, though he's starting a Steampunk series as well.

He did a High Fantasy series called Codex Alera. It was... meh. Not great imo, not his style or maybe I just don't like pure high fantasy as much.

google Codex Alera:

The inspiration for the series came from a bet Jim was challenged to by a member of the Del Rey Online Writer’s Workshop. The challenger bet that Jim could not write a good story based on a lame idea, and Jim countered that he could do it using two lame ideas of the challenger’s choosing. The “lame” ideas given were “Lost Roman Legion", and “Pokémon”.

that sounds pretty fucking good to me
oh and the series is finished? I am a fan of high fantasy so maybe i'll give this one a shot...

Check it out if you want, I didn't like it but that doesn't preclude other people from enjoying it. It had good ideas but I didn't like the flow as much, I'll probably go back to it at some point.

I just can't wait for 5 years for the conclusion again. My heart can't take it and I'm already waiting for grrm.
Maybe I should just read not fantasy stuff and get a little culture in my life.
A book worm friend of mine lent me kafka on the shore and i really enjoyed it a lot. Along with douglas coupland and stuff like that.
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-18 19:08:28
October 18 2013 19:06 GMT
#6609
On October 19 2013 03:56 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2013 03:50 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:48 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:46 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:45 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
Seriously though shit like 'studies mention' pisses me off because I'm sure there are studies that attempt to quantify 'happiness' in that way.

The fact that some researchers try to allude to the fact that all that matters to general happiness is how people spend their free time and how relaxed they are is serious horseshit. Yeah I'm more stressed now, yeah I get a lot less sleep and am much poorer, but I wouldn't trade the feeling I get when I hang out with him or sit and watch videos of him laughing/playing for hours at a time when I should be studying for anything.
Fuck 'studies.'

Well yeah, you could say the same about drug addiction...

Can you list any benefits of drug addiction to yourself or society in general?

You're happy when your high, and nothing else matters.

Again, trolling or not? Because that doesn't exactly answer my question. Are you advocating a hedonistic lifestyle?

Isn't that what life is though?
If your kids gives you the greatest joy in the world, isn't that hedonistic in itself?
different values of utility/happiness for each person. If you value your kids that highly, and are willing to go through all the shit that goes with it for that happiness, how is that not just as hedonistic as some guy who's willing to do the same for his drug of choice? (this applies to anything, not just vices.)

If there's one things humans are good at, it's making themselves happy, even if it makes them miserable.


You're forgetting one basic fact here.
Of what benefit are drugs to mankind on the whole?
Of what benefit are children to mankind on the whole?

I don't think you can even make a direct comparison, and you're delving into philosophical argumentation while ignoring the basic fact that basic biology and human survival depends on people having kids, whether or not it is good for personal happiness.

I do not believe at all that pursuit of happiness (hedonism) is what life is. It can be an important part of life, but on its own that seems to me a very rudimentary way of looking at our personal struggles on this planet.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-18 19:08:06
October 18 2013 19:07 GMT
#6610
Compilation posttttttttt

Utada Hikari desu desu desu

Gravity was pretty good, see that shit in IMAX or it falls flat though. It's all about the atmosphere. Honestly I thought a lot of the symbolism was a little heavy-handed, and the Deus Ex Machina was a little irksome, but overall it had a great message with a lot of interesting dialogue and a LOT of scientific inaccuracies with gravity.

I've seen just about every Miyazaki movie. I'd say that my favorite is probably Howl's Moving Castle, followed by a tie of Spirited Away and Nausicaa, and then Princess Mononononononononoke. I didn't like Totoro as much as a lot of other people did, but maybe that's because I had already seen so many other Miyazaki movies that it didn't live up ti the amount of hype that it had. Maybe I missed out on a nostalgia factor? I haven't seen Ponyo but I want to, if someone who has seen it would reccommend it, please do so.

Remember kids, watch japanese movies safely and intelligently. Subs, not dubs. Repeat after me: Subs-Not-Dubs!

Looking for fantasy? Books of Malazan is the shit. It's really long, really heavy, really deep, and really really enjoyable. At least for me. I can understand why a lot of people wouldn't like it.

While somewhat on the topic of Japanese Cinema, if you haven't yet, check out the films of Akira Kurosawa. The man was a genius and western adaptions of some of his best movies became incredibly famous. For instance, my second favorite movie of his, The Hidden Fortress, is what George Lucas turned in to Star Wars. And my absolute favorite Kurosawa move (and easily one of my favorite movies ever) is the Seven Samurai, which was turned into the Magnificent Seven, the best Western to come out of Hollywood.

So when I don't have school I actually have high-quality posts? Hot damn time to quit school.


Also Marijuana isn't illegal in Seattle so suck it Roffles <3
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 18 2013 19:07 GMT
#6611
On October 19 2013 04:04 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2013 03:56 Roffles wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:50 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:48 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:46 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:45 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
Seriously though shit like 'studies mention' pisses me off because I'm sure there are studies that attempt to quantify 'happiness' in that way.

The fact that some researchers try to allude to the fact that all that matters to general happiness is how people spend their free time and how relaxed they are is serious horseshit. Yeah I'm more stressed now, yeah I get a lot less sleep and am much poorer, but I wouldn't trade the feeling I get when I hang out with him or sit and watch videos of him laughing/playing for hours at a time when I should be studying for anything.
Fuck 'studies.'

Well yeah, you could say the same about drug addiction...

Can you list any benefits of drug addiction to yourself or society in general?

You're happy when your high, and nothing else matters.

Again, trolling or not? Because that doesn't exactly answer my question. Are you advocating a hedonistic lifestyle?

Here comes probably the segway into a very bad conversation:

Marijuana is considered an illegal drug. But what makes this drug illegal and not something like cigarettes? Cigarettes are harmful to both yourself and the society and have little to no benefits known to mankind. Marijuana has many medicinal uses and is less harmful as well as not addicting. In fact, what makes it worse than something like caffeine, a highly addicting drug that plagues many people over the age of 22.

Drugs are good.

+ Show Spoiler +
I won't be here next hour to respond lol

What?
I agree with your POV, but you're basing reasoning for things being illegal as having to do with benefits for mankind on the whole, when it is very well known that the governments who make the laws as to what is illegal or not can as well be out for themselves and not mankind on the whole.

Whether or not your kids benefits society doesn't matter. Who the fuck goes into the mindset in having a kid so society will benefit? lol.
liftlift > tsm
Scip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-18 19:08:58
October 18 2013 19:08 GMT
#6612
On October 18 2013 23:26 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2013 23:20 Requizen wrote:
On October 18 2013 23:14 WaveofShadow wrote:
Also fuck blogging 'cause I'm lazy, but this is what I'm dealing with atm.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Words can't express.
Go have kids guise. You won't regret it.

This runs contrary to everything everywhere

People lead selfish spoiled lives (not to say I'm not selfish or spoiled, but still) these days imo.
Too career and self-success oriented.

I think my greatest accomplishment atm is my son and that doesn't embarrass me in the slightest.

This reminds me of this video
+ Show Spoiler +

"Having children is sort of like achieving something, without needing any talent. Which, if you think about it, is a metaphor for your whole life."
"It may be pleasurable for some of us to imagine being ravished" - Christopher Hitchens in a debate with feminists RIP 2011 Psalm 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 18 2013 19:10 GMT
#6613
@Ghandi

Possibly one of the most controversial opinions I hold on the internet: I think dubs can be as good or better than dubs depending on the team and VAs.

get@me
It's your boy Guzma!
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
October 18 2013 19:10 GMT
#6614
On October 19 2013 04:10 Requizen wrote:
@Ghandi

Possibly one of the most controversial opinions I hold on the internet: I think dubs can be as good or better than dubs depending on the team and VAs.

get@me


Objectively true. See Cowboy Bebop, FMA, Yu-Yu Hakusho, and Golden Boy.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
October 18 2013 19:12 GMT
#6615
Can someone trades me in X/Y to evolve my Punkaboo?
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
October 18 2013 19:12 GMT
#6616
I also read the malazan book of the fallen and it was fucking great. The ending was something spectacular and thought provoking and the journey there was complicated but captivating. Heavy handed is an understatement heh.
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-18 19:15:05
October 18 2013 19:13 GMT
#6617
On October 19 2013 04:07 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2013 04:04 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:56 Roffles wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:50 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:48 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:46 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:45 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 19 2013 03:43 WaveofShadow wrote:
Seriously though shit like 'studies mention' pisses me off because I'm sure there are studies that attempt to quantify 'happiness' in that way.

The fact that some researchers try to allude to the fact that all that matters to general happiness is how people spend their free time and how relaxed they are is serious horseshit. Yeah I'm more stressed now, yeah I get a lot less sleep and am much poorer, but I wouldn't trade the feeling I get when I hang out with him or sit and watch videos of him laughing/playing for hours at a time when I should be studying for anything.
Fuck 'studies.'

Well yeah, you could say the same about drug addiction...

Can you list any benefits of drug addiction to yourself or society in general?

You're happy when your high, and nothing else matters.

Again, trolling or not? Because that doesn't exactly answer my question. Are you advocating a hedonistic lifestyle?

Here comes probably the segway into a very bad conversation:

Marijuana is considered an illegal drug. But what makes this drug illegal and not something like cigarettes? Cigarettes are harmful to both yourself and the society and have little to no benefits known to mankind. Marijuana has many medicinal uses and is less harmful as well as not addicting. In fact, what makes it worse than something like caffeine, a highly addicting drug that plagues many people over the age of 22.

Drugs are good.

+ Show Spoiler +
I won't be here next hour to respond lol

What?
I agree with your POV, but you're basing reasoning for things being illegal as having to do with benefits for mankind on the whole, when it is very well known that the governments who make the laws as to what is illegal or not can as well be out for themselves and not mankind on the whole.

Whether or not your kids benefits society doesn't matter. Who the fuck goes into the mindset in having a kid so society will benefit? lol.

You should ask your parents these question imo and see how they react.

People don't have that mindset, but if we're trying to break down things into cold hard logic here, the only reason to have kids is to carry on your own genes, or to further the human population. That cannot be denied. If people need to go ahead and find their own reasons to make the facts seem less cold and hard than that is entirely their prerogative. Biology is sometimes a hard thing to find meaning in, but there are built-in endorphins and biological benefits to having/raising a child that is built onto our genetic makeup. That can then be expanded upon sociologically.

Edit: If everyone shared your seeming view that the only true meaning to life is the pursuit of pleasure, despite what 'studies' have shown, I'm willing to bet the human race wouldn't cease.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
October 18 2013 19:16 GMT
#6618
Americans are lazy enough. Widespread acceptance of weed as legal would just grind our petty work ethics to a grinding halt.
Hey! How you doin'?
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
October 18 2013 19:18 GMT
#6619
You still wouldn't be able to goto work high. You just wouldn't have to be so worried at radio head concerts.
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 18 2013 19:18 GMT
#6620
On October 19 2013 04:16 Zdrastochye wrote:
Americans are lazy enough. Widespread acceptance of weed as legal would just grind our petty work ethics to a grinding halt.

Alcohol doesn't prohibit working, though.
It's your boy Guzma!
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