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New inhouse logistics TBD. In the meantime, feel free to hang out in the league general discord https://discord.gg/0lCEKA3jUEFxERzd ("add lol" in #welcome) and get some ad-hoc games going! |
Riot has done a pretty decent job at adding tools to facilitate in game communication without endorsing voice communication (read no raidcall,teamspeak, ventrilo, etc partnership)
Teamspeak is a nice addition to these inhouses but is not fundamental to the success of the task. Aura is one of the people i've learned the most from and he never talks. right click and dragging the mose to signal (coming, back off, help, mia) is often faster than actually saying it.
In most situations having someone ping mid tower and typing dive.is going to be more efficient than conforming with verbal social niceties and suggesting "let's dive mid" due to the way verbal communication works. Of course it would help a lot to have a designated trustworthy shotcaller who can look past the social-verbal communication protocol and just give an order. But in the status quo this isn't the case. The point is that TS is simply a perk to discuss possible plays and mistakes. Which is good in game, obviously. But takes place a lot more after the games.
That said, we really should spend more time in the after-game discussion.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On November 12 2013 06:37 DURRHURRDERP wrote:
Your perception is definitely skewed towards 5s since you have a regular group to play with, the vast majority of people don't. I wouldn't say spamming solo queue games is pointless either but again my perception is probably skewed in that area since I improved the most playing solo queue and never really played arranged 5s.
Also I think it's far easier to move from being "top solo queue player" -> "top team player" rather than the reverse (IE: Faker).
well lets be real here these in houses can help someone go from gold 5 to plat 3 but they're not gonna help anyone go from diamond 3 to challenger promo to lcs recruit
solo q and team play abilities are strongly correlated and there's no magical "good team player but bad at solo q" but thats no reason to completely disregard the team aspect of it, and if we have voice chat, why wouldnt we encourage people to use it...?
On November 12 2013 06:41 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:
In most situations having someone ping mid tower and typing dive.is going to be more efficient than conforming with verbal social niceties and suggesting "let's dive mid" due to the way verbal communication works. .
what the fuck lol what kind of games have you been playing...
maybe you just have peopel who are really bad at using voice chat..
On November 12 2013 06:45 Roffles wrote:
You know Sheep. Voice chat means shit once you've played a game with Aryogaton.
ARYOGATON COME MID. ARYOGATON GO BACK HOME.
Aryogaton stays top. Aryogaton doesn't back.
Fuck voice chat.
hahahahah aryogaton is a god he doesnt listen to mere mortals
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
You know Sheep. Voice chat means shit once you've played a game with Aryogaton.
ARYOGATON COME MID. ARYOGATON GO BACK HOME.
Aryogaton stays top. Aryogaton doesn't back.
Fuck voice chat.
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It's pretty obvious you're saying this from an outsider's perspective. I've only seen you in IH once and we all know how that went.
TLers in IHs are more often than not complete strangers, sometimes with newcomers trying to get acquainted with the group. Hell, I don't even know who's talking half the time and I've been playing in these regularly since late august. It takes time for people to get used to this kind of medium and very often we have newcomers who are just overwhelmed by the whole experience. Not everyone has the same social abilities; also not all groups are going to have the samse sense of comradery that develops over time from playing with the same group of 5 people and knowing each other's strenghts and weaknesses.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On November 12 2013 06:51 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:
It's pretty obvious you're saying this from an outsider's perspective. I've only seen you in IH once and we all know how that went.
TLers in IHs are more often than not complete strangers, sometimes with newcomers trying to get acquainted with the group. Hell, I don't even know who's talking half the time and I've been playing in these regularly since late august. It takes time for people to get used to this kind of medium and very often we have newcomers who are just overwhelmed by the whole experience. Not everyone has the same social abilities; also not all groups are going to have the samse sense of comradery that develops over time from playing with the same group of 5 people and knowing each other's strenghts and weaknesses.
again, by that logic, there is 0 reason to play these instead of grinding solo q
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The whole point is to interact with players at different levels of skill. It need not be verbal interaction. A gold player is not going to have the opportunity to regularly play with plats and diamonds and understand what he's doing wrong. Whether he learns it by observation, visual communication (pings/chat) or verbal communication is irrelevant.
I'm not against having a regular team of 5 people playing together consistently. If my schedule didn't conflict with that of my friends I probably would. But as it stands those opportunities are very limited and learning should not be constrained to that setting. Also, if all 5 of you are low plat and trying to learn the game. Your improvement rate is going to be slower than if someone who is really good just told you what you're doing wrong. You're confusing teamwork with team chemistry.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On November 12 2013 07:01 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:
The whole point is to interact with players at different levels of skill. It need not be verbal interaction. A gold player is not going to have the opportunity to regularly play with plats and diamonds and understand what he's doing wrong. Whether he learns it by observation, visual communication (pings/chat) or verbal communication is irrelevant.
I'm not against having a regular team of 5 people playing together consistently. If my schedule didn't conflict with that of my friends I probably would. But as it stands those opportunities are very limited and learning should not be constrained to that setting. Also, if all 5 of you are low plat and trying to learn the game. Your improvement rate is going to be slower than if someone who is really good just told you what you're doing wrong. You're confusing teamwork with team chemistry.
If you think you can only improve by playing with higher ranked people, what incentive is there for the Diamond guy to play with the Silver? Sure the Silver gets to play with better people and supposedly improve, but why is the Diamond guy there?
OFC you can learn by playing solo q but it's magnitudes more efficient playing 5v5. It's not like you can't improve individual skill playing 5s.
Also I've said nothing about teamwork and team chemistry I don't even understand your point there.
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I guess at the end, everyone has to think about why they want to improve. Csheep says that improving is only meaningful if you have a team and you push that team's skill level. crazyhorse you're saying that you want to improve to be better at soloqueue. there is no wrong or right, it depends of the person and where your motivation lies.
For scheduling it's not as hard as people are saying, it's not like you're trying to be an LCS team. Just have a core group of 5 and 2-3 temps. When you get online you prioritize getting your core 5 in the game, and then fill with ringers. We still managed to play 5s semi regularly when I was in France, sheep was on east coast and surf on west coast. Was terror but it worked.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On November 12 2013 07:11 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 07:01 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:
The whole point is to interact with players at different levels of skill. It need not be verbal interaction. A gold player is not going to have the opportunity to regularly play with plats and diamonds and understand what he's doing wrong. Whether he learns it by observation, visual communication (pings/chat) or verbal communication is irrelevant.
I'm not against having a regular team of 5 people playing together consistently. If my schedule didn't conflict with that of my friends I probably would. But as it stands those opportunities are very limited and learning should not be constrained to that setting. Also, if all 5 of you are low plat and trying to learn the game. Your improvement rate is going to be slower than if someone who is really good just told you what you're doing wrong. You're confusing teamwork with team chemistry. If you think you can only improve by playing with higher ranked people, what incentive is there for the Diamond guy to play with the Silver? Sure the Silver gets to play with better people and supposedly improve, but why is the Diamond guy there? OFC you can learn by playing solo q but it's magnitudes more efficient playing 5v5. It's not like you can't improve individual skill playing 5s. Also I've said nothing about teamwork and team chemistry I don't even understand your point there.
The Diamond player is there to help others improve. Something you wouldn't understand because everything from your perspective is "What do I get out of this?"
That's the entire point of these things. For people to help each other and improve while forging a strong community.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On November 12 2013 07:14 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 07:11 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On November 12 2013 07:01 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:
The whole point is to interact with players at different levels of skill. It need not be verbal interaction. A gold player is not going to have the opportunity to regularly play with plats and diamonds and understand what he's doing wrong. Whether he learns it by observation, visual communication (pings/chat) or verbal communication is irrelevant.
I'm not against having a regular team of 5 people playing together consistently. If my schedule didn't conflict with that of my friends I probably would. But as it stands those opportunities are very limited and learning should not be constrained to that setting. Also, if all 5 of you are low plat and trying to learn the game. Your improvement rate is going to be slower than if someone who is really good just told you what you're doing wrong. You're confusing teamwork with team chemistry. If you think you can only improve by playing with higher ranked people, what incentive is there for the Diamond guy to play with the Silver? Sure the Silver gets to play with better people and supposedly improve, but why is the Diamond guy there? OFC you can learn by playing solo q but it's magnitudes more efficient playing 5v5. It's not like you can't improve individual skill playing 5s. Also I've said nothing about teamwork and team chemistry I don't even understand your point there. The Diamond player is there to help others improve. Something you wouldn't understand because everything from your perspective is "What do I get out of this?" That's the entire point of these things. For people to help each other and improve while forging a strong community.
So if you have a strong community why wouldn't you want to play 5s?
Like I have nothing against solo queue or anything of the sort, I'm just perplexed by this apparent antagonism to anything that is part of 5v5 - ranging from simply playing 5s to using voice chat.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
You can get admiration, respect and feeling of morla superiority towards the other diamond players who do not participate in IHs.
It doesn't help diamond players get better at all
oh, the most important thing you get is the feeling you are helping other people.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On November 12 2013 07:15 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 07:14 Roffles wrote:On November 12 2013 07:11 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On November 12 2013 07:01 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:
The whole point is to interact with players at different levels of skill. It need not be verbal interaction. A gold player is not going to have the opportunity to regularly play with plats and diamonds and understand what he's doing wrong. Whether he learns it by observation, visual communication (pings/chat) or verbal communication is irrelevant.
I'm not against having a regular team of 5 people playing together consistently. If my schedule didn't conflict with that of my friends I probably would. But as it stands those opportunities are very limited and learning should not be constrained to that setting. Also, if all 5 of you are low plat and trying to learn the game. Your improvement rate is going to be slower than if someone who is really good just told you what you're doing wrong. You're confusing teamwork with team chemistry. If you think you can only improve by playing with higher ranked people, what incentive is there for the Diamond guy to play with the Silver? Sure the Silver gets to play with better people and supposedly improve, but why is the Diamond guy there? OFC you can learn by playing solo q but it's magnitudes more efficient playing 5v5. It's not like you can't improve individual skill playing 5s. Also I've said nothing about teamwork and team chemistry I don't even understand your point there. The Diamond player is there to help others improve. Something you wouldn't understand because everything from your perspective is "What do I get out of this?" That's the entire point of these things. For people to help each other and improve while forging a strong community. So if you have a strong community why wouldn't you want to play 5s?
Harder to arrange 5s. Thought we've been through this already. Not everyone can commit to the same time schedules, which is why it hasn't been done in the past.
There's absolutely 0 antagonism towards playing 5s. In fact many of us would like to see something of the sort. But it's just so hard to coordinate playing 5s with so many people. You do know that many people do play norm 5s and the sort on a regular basis right? Milo, Vowels, etc. It's not like everyone is unfamiliar with each other and we refuse to play with each other unless its a pick up IH game.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On November 12 2013 07:18 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 07:15 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On November 12 2013 07:14 Roffles wrote:On November 12 2013 07:11 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On November 12 2013 07:01 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:
The whole point is to interact with players at different levels of skill. It need not be verbal interaction. A gold player is not going to have the opportunity to regularly play with plats and diamonds and understand what he's doing wrong. Whether he learns it by observation, visual communication (pings/chat) or verbal communication is irrelevant.
I'm not against having a regular team of 5 people playing together consistently. If my schedule didn't conflict with that of my friends I probably would. But as it stands those opportunities are very limited and learning should not be constrained to that setting. Also, if all 5 of you are low plat and trying to learn the game. Your improvement rate is going to be slower than if someone who is really good just told you what you're doing wrong. You're confusing teamwork with team chemistry. If you think you can only improve by playing with higher ranked people, what incentive is there for the Diamond guy to play with the Silver? Sure the Silver gets to play with better people and supposedly improve, but why is the Diamond guy there? OFC you can learn by playing solo q but it's magnitudes more efficient playing 5v5. It's not like you can't improve individual skill playing 5s. Also I've said nothing about teamwork and team chemistry I don't even understand your point there. The Diamond player is there to help others improve. Something you wouldn't understand because everything from your perspective is "What do I get out of this?" That's the entire point of these things. For people to help each other and improve while forging a strong community. So if you have a strong community why wouldn't you want to play 5s? Harder to arrange 5s. Thought we've been through this already. Not everyone can commit to the same time schedules, which is why it hasn't been done in the past.
That goes without saying (though it's not at all impossible if you actually want to play 5s...see BR's point, we managed to do it when we were across two continents...), but it's going from "it's hard to play 5s" into 5s is useless/pointless/we shouldn't even use voice chat which is just baffling to me. It's like you're purposefully ignoring a large part of the game for no reason.
On November 12 2013 07:18 Roffles wrote:
There's absolutely 0 antagonism towards playing 5s. In fact many of us would like to see something of the sort. But it's just so hard to coordinate playing 5s with so many people. You do know that many people do play norm 5s and the sort on a regular basis right? Milo, Vowels, etc. It's not like everyone is unfamiliar with each other and we refuse to play with each other unless its a pick up IH game.
You have people saying we shouldn't even use voice chat how is that not antagonism to 5s lol.
Also the people you listed (and all the people who play 5s normally) are people who've played 5s long before in-houses existed, irrelevant of in-houses. There are plenty of people who don't play any 5s and only play solo q + IHs, so it's a bit silly to say 5s is alive and well.
In fact I completely disagree with "many of us would like to see something of the sort," because if that were actually the case, I think something of the sort would already be in place in one form or another when right now it's basically completely absent. There's no insurmountable obstacle to playing 5s besides a lack of real motivation for it, which I think we should change, but there is obviously pushback ~_~
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
You want the truth? 5s don't matter when you're shit at the game.
It's easier to go from Solo Queue allstar to team player than from a team player to solo queue allstar because in teams your deficiencies can be hidden by organized play and perhaps better teammates. Take for instance my group of ringers for #FREE RP. Never played a single game together, but they rolled everyone due to how much better they were, even when the enemy team was all diamond as well. You need to teach people the basics first before you can even get into shit like drafting, invading, 1v2ing, rotations, etc.
I don't see why you praise 5s over solo queue so much when solo queue is an attestment to your individual skill at the game. Let's be honest. When I played with TLMS, we were all shit except Jay. That guy legit singlehandedly carried all of us when we were all legit silvers and bronzes and we were beating plat/diamond players consistently. But that didn't make me a better player. In fact, that stagnated my play because I grew too dependent on other people to carry me.
In these games, it's like an advanced solo queue with a little bit of communication, a lotta fucking around, which is a great simulator for how solo queue games go. Some dbag is trying hard (aura), some troll is trying to troll his team (me), and a buncha scrubs are feeding (kissblade). But at the end of the day, people learn and people play and learn their weaknesses and improve. Look at these scrubs like Ares who started by losing lane to Mathies and now has improved to the point that he can play more than just 2 champs. People learn from these and I've seen them make great strides just from how we've played these games.
I'm not saying 5s is bad, you know I've played a shitton of 5s. But to discount solo queue and say 5s is the best way to go about improving is a complete lie.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On November 12 2013 08:05 Roffles wrote:
You want the truth? 5s don't matter when you're shit at the game.
It's easier to go from Solo Queue allstar to team player than from a team player to solo queue allstar because in teams your deficiencies can be hidden by organized play and perhaps better teammates.
I'm not saying 5s is bad, you know I've played a shitton of 5s. But to discount solo queue and say 5s is the best way to go about improving is a complete lie.
I've never disputed a single one of these points and I even went out of my way to explicitly say I'm not discounting solo q...
I agree that sometimes you can mask individual deficiencies in 5s but that also happens in solo q/pick-up games where you have someone who happens to be carrying you, the onus is on you to make sure you're improving yourself individually no matter if you're playing solo or 5s or pick-up in houses, no matter if you're 10-0 or 0-10. I just don't see a reason why people can't try to play 5s when it's honestly a very large part of the game.
If you go the "5s dont matter when you're shit at the game," neither does solo q :o
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On November 12 2013 08:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 08:05 Roffles wrote:
You want the truth? 5s don't matter when you're shit at the game.
It's easier to go from Solo Queue allstar to team player than from a team player to solo queue allstar because in teams your deficiencies can be hidden by organized play and perhaps better teammates.
I'm not saying 5s is bad, you know I've played a shitton of 5s. But to discount solo queue and say 5s is the best way to go about improving is a complete lie. I've never disputed a single one of these points and I even went out of my way to explicitly say I'm not discounting solo q... I agree that sometimes you can mask individual deficiencies in 5s but that also happens in solo q/pick-up games where you have someone who happens to be carrying you, the onus is on you to make sure you're improving yourself individually no matter if you're playing solo or 5s or pick-up in houses, no matter if you're 10-0 or 0-10. I just don't see a reason why people can't try to play 5s when it's honestly a very large part of the game. If you go the "5s dont matter when you're shit at the game," neither does solo q :o
Playing 5s is not playing on your own and improving at the game. Look at TLHM and MicroSheep. Those two have played 5s with you guys forever and they still don't even know what half the champs in the game do and they're completely reliant on you to dictate their every move. Solo queue teaches you to think on your own, carry by yourself (maybe with a buddy), but at the end of the day it's a gauge for individual skill.
If you're good at solo queue, it's nearly impossible for you to be shit at the game. If you happen to play on a decent ranked 5s team, there's a likelihood that you have many deficiencies in your play being masked by others.
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Baa?21242 Posts
On November 12 2013 08:12 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 08:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On November 12 2013 08:05 Roffles wrote:
You want the truth? 5s don't matter when you're shit at the game.
It's easier to go from Solo Queue allstar to team player than from a team player to solo queue allstar because in teams your deficiencies can be hidden by organized play and perhaps better teammates.
I'm not saying 5s is bad, you know I've played a shitton of 5s. But to discount solo queue and say 5s is the best way to go about improving is a complete lie. I've never disputed a single one of these points and I even went out of my way to explicitly say I'm not discounting solo q... I agree that sometimes you can mask individual deficiencies in 5s but that also happens in solo q/pick-up games where you have someone who happens to be carrying you, the onus is on you to make sure you're improving yourself individually no matter if you're playing solo or 5s or pick-up in houses, no matter if you're 10-0 or 0-10. I just don't see a reason why people can't try to play 5s when it's honestly a very large part of the game. If you go the "5s dont matter when you're shit at the game," neither does solo q :o Playing 5s is not playing on your own and improving at the game. Look at TLHM and MicroSheep. Those two have played 5s with you guys forever and they still don't even know what half the champs in the game do and they're completely reliant on you to dictate their every move. Solo queue teaches you to think on your own, carry by yourself (maybe with a buddy), but at the end of the day it's a gauge for individual skill.
Well that just feeds into my point of "the onus is on you to make sure you're improving yourself individually"
TLHM legit played hundreds of solo q he just never really tried to improve himself with as much of a singular focus as he needed to substantially get better. It has nothing to do with format, it's about individual attitude and motivation. Microsheep just legit doesn't really care about getting better per se.
Assumign that you're individually motivated to improve, I think there's a lot to be learned playing 5s that you can't learn in solo q, and not much that you can learn in solo q that can't also be worked on while playing 5s. It just boils down to individual mechanics, not losing lane, winning lane, and being at the right place at the right time - all thing sthat are present in 5s as much as solo q.
On November 12 2013 08:12 Roffles wrote:
If you're good at solo queue, it's nearly impossible for you to be shit at the game. If you happen to play on a decent ranked 5s team, there's a likelihood that you have many deficiencies in your play being masked by others.
No one ever said otherwise. Like you probably need to play a healthy amount of both to "improve," since solo q does force you to carry 1v5 harder than in 5s, but thats not an argument for discounting 5s.
On November 12 2013 08:16 Roffles wrote:
See, that's where I disagree. If you're good at solo queue, that skill can easily transfer over to 5s. Whereas skill in 5s doesn't necessarily mean you're a good solo queue player.
XJ9 huehuehuehue
Man I don't even now what we're talking about anymore all I ever wanted was the amount of 5s being played to go from [0] to [some] is that so much to ask for
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
See, that's where I disagree. If you're good at solo queue, that skill can easily transfer over to 5s. Whereas skill in 5s doesn't necessarily mean you're a good solo queue player or a good player overall.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
We NEVER EVER said we wouldn't consider playing 5s. Please go back and find where I said that or Neo said that.
All I read was people are interested in playing if it can be arranged.
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Baa?21242 Posts
ty based roffles pls make it happen
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EPT
