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New inhouse logistics TBD. In the meantime, feel free to hang out in the league general discord https://discord.gg/0lCEKA3jUEFxERzd ("add lol" in #welcome) and get some ad-hoc games going! |
Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On November 12 2013 06:03 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 06:01 Roffles wrote:On November 12 2013 05:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I think that's the most serious post I've ever seen durr make Didn't know he had it in him. Also, I think there's definitely enough interest across the board to at least try some sort of stabilized teamplay. As Soniv said, once the stakes are raised, people tend to play better. Take a look at what happened when Mathies came around. People tried their hardest to win, not lose. It'll also help lower the amount of troll games (sry friends), and promote greater improvement and better coordination. Plus with some better players to guide and coach, it'd be great for them too. Would there then be different tiers of teams? Shit-tier teams of lowbies vs. God-tier teams of plat+s? Then God-tier teams could play games for observation and Shit-tier teams could face off with vets watching to critique? Shit-tier match quality would ideally increase with more and more practice.
That's what I'm not so sure about. I need to figure out how teams need to be created so it's not only fair competition wise bbut also promotes the greatest amount of learning.
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On November 12 2013 06:06 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 06:04 jcarlsoniv wrote:On November 12 2013 06:00 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I agree with mostly everything in Durr's post, with the exception of the communication thing.
Is the ultimate goal of these in houses supposed to be just help people improve at solo queue...? I feel like that's a silly goal to have considering how you can replicate that by, well, just playing solo queue. Solo queue is the best way to measure self improvement for the masses. It's the most accessible and widely used mode for anything remotely competitive. It's easy to see that you've improved when you're G5, do a ton of IHs, then end up getting to P3. And just spamming solo queue doesn't really work unless you are actively looking at every aspect of your game every time. Having 9 other people to look at your play (plus spectators) and give you critique is far better. Oh no you misunderstand me, my point is that we should be promoting "proper" gameplay of using voice chat to its maximum potential, etc., instead of treating it just as a way to improve solo queue rating :O The latter should be a side effect and not a prime motive.
oh
well then I agree
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Baa?21247 Posts
On November 12 2013 06:06 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 06:03 AsmodeusXI wrote:On November 12 2013 06:01 Roffles wrote:On November 12 2013 05:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I think that's the most serious post I've ever seen durr make Didn't know he had it in him. Also, I think there's definitely enough interest across the board to at least try some sort of stabilized teamplay. As Soniv said, once the stakes are raised, people tend to play better. Take a look at what happened when Mathies came around. People tried their hardest to win, not lose. It'll also help lower the amount of troll games (sry friends), and promote greater improvement and better coordination. Plus with some better players to guide and coach, it'd be great for them too. Would there then be different tiers of teams? Shit-tier teams of lowbies vs. God-tier teams of plat+s? Then God-tier teams could play games for observation and Shit-tier teams could face off with vets watching to critique? Shit-tier match quality would ideally increase with more and more practice. That's what I'm not so sure about. I need to figure out how teams need to be created so it's not only fair competition wise bbut also promotes the greatest amount of learning.
I think any teams are good right now, shouldn't have such stringent requirements when you're just trying to kick it off - simply getting people playing 5v5s to get used to it should be the simplest goal if you're trying to kick it off.
also if you're going to play arranged 5s on a semi-regular basis it helps to have everyone have one defined role. I know this goes contrary to a lot of what people say/want, but I think focusing on one role in a 5s setting is infinitely superior to everyone juggling between roles from game to game. It also makes it easier to make a team...
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On November 12 2013 06:00 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I agree with mostly everything in Durr's post, with the exception of the communication thing.
Is the ultimate goal of these in houses supposed to be just help people improve at solo queue...? I feel like that's a silly goal to have considering how you can replicate that by, well, just playing solo queue.
Like it or lump it solo queue is the prime determinant for determining how much you've improved. Obviously communication is good but I think some people are definitely overvaluing how useful voice communication is in relation to teamwork in a game. I've played plenty of solo queue games where noone says anything and the team ends up working together and being on the same page more than inhouse games where everyone is in the same TS channel yet saying nothing / derping around in an uncoordinated manner.
edit: I just read csheep's reply, yeah obviously I agree with that point.
I'm of the opinion that teaching people to be better players and having a better understanding of the game should be a higher priority because it then leads to more communication (though some people have the reverse opinion).
Also, it is hard to improve just by playing solo queue. There are plenty of people who play tons of solo queue and barely improve, whereas by playing inhouses they have more tools to spur improvement. My point is that solo queue is a necessary component to improving because it provides motivation and also gives a metric to show improvement (that inhouses doesn't necessarily give).
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Baa?21247 Posts
On November 12 2013 06:10 DURRHURRDERP wrote:
Obviously communication is good but I think some people are definitely overvaluing how useful voice communication is in relation to teamwork in a game. I've played plenty of solo queue games where noone says anything and the team ends up working together and being on the same page more than inhouse games where everyone is in the same TS channel yet saying nothing / derping around in an uncoordinated manner.
I disagree completely...
The games where everyone magically are on the same page are the exception rather than the rule and often it's a side effect of the one team simply being in an advantage - for the vast majorit of people, it is much much easier and straightforward to play from an advantage.
People derping on TS is a result of people not used to playing with voice chat and not realizing the importance of integrating it into their play, which is all the more reason for people to focus on it more to utilize it to its maximum potential.
I am 100% of the opinion that a team of golds who play together on voice chat will beat a team of solo q plats. no, voice chat isn't enough for golds to beat solo q diamonds, but I really think it can overcome at least one tier of supposed skill difference.
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On November 12 2013 06:00 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I agree with mostly everything in Durr's post, with the exception of the communication thing.
Is the ultimate goal of these in houses supposed to be just help people improve at solo queue...? I feel like that's a silly goal to have considering how you can replicate that by, well, just playing solo queue.
well what helps more in terms of improving, having some random person in soloq call you bad and retarded or having durr/roffles/someone else who knows their shit call you bad and retarded and WHY you are bad and retarded?
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On November 12 2013 06:14 Dusty wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 06:00 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I agree with mostly everything in Durr's post, with the exception of the communication thing.
Is the ultimate goal of these in houses supposed to be just help people improve at solo queue...? I feel like that's a silly goal to have considering how you can replicate that by, well, just playing solo queue. well what helps more in terms of improving, having some random person in soloq call you bad and retarded or having durr/roffles call you bad and retarded and WHY you are bad and retarded?
I'm not sure, both scenarios happen to me roughly as frequently, so I can't tell which works better
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Csheep, I think focusing effort into improving voice communication during games for most players (who aren't playing a significant amount of ranked 5s) is going to be pointless when that same effort could have been applied to simply getting better.
I don't think voice communication can make up an entire league's difference in skill. If you mean Gold Is (with voice) vs Plat 5s (without), then maybe, but legit Gold I vs Plat I or Gold 5 vs Plat 5? I don't know about that.
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Since this is the end of the season, you guys should make some IH awards
Best attitude
Best coaching
Best newcomer
Most improved player
Biggest play
Silliest play
and other stuff, you can nominate 1 player for each and can't vote for yourself
probably make a different thread for it
give some appreciation to people you think deserve it
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On November 12 2013 06:22 SagaZ wrote:
Since this is the end of the season, you guys should make some IH awards
Best attitude
Best coaching
Best newcomer
Most improved player
Biggest play
Silliest play
and other stuff, you can nominate 1 player for each and can't vote for yourself
probably make a different thread for it
give some appreciation to people you think deserve it
no point, kissblade wins everything.
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On November 12 2013 06:20 DURRHURRDERP wrote:
Csheep, I think focusing effort into improving voice communication during games for most players (who aren't playing a significant amount of ranked 5s) is going to be pointless when that same effort could have been applied to simply getting better.
I don't think voice communication can make up an entire league's difference in skill. If you mean Gold Is (with voice) vs Plat 5s (without), then maybe, but legit Gold I vs Plat I or Gold 5 vs Plat 5? I don't know about that.
On the upside - voice communication can be worked on just by people doing it in games. It's nothing something that has to be actively focused on, but can be done in conjunction with actually improving skill and team play.
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True but again it's pointless to put actual active effort into it unless you're going to be playing a significant amount of arranged team games.
Edit: I THINK WE ALL KNOW WHERE CSHEEP STANDS IN THIS REGARD (http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/20793890#history)
^ 8/10 ranked 5s team real biased
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Baa?21247 Posts
It's how the game "should" be played though so again, if your goal is to just make people good at solo queue, then yeah it's pointless, but I also think that's a stupid goal to have.
On November 12 2013 06:20 DURRHURRDERP wrote:
I don't think voice communication can make up an entire league's difference in skill. If you mean Gold Is (with voice) vs Plat 5s (without), then maybe, but legit Gold I vs Plat I or Gold 5 vs Plat 5? I don't know about that.
It doesn't always happen because sometimes the plats will simply win lane win game and that's that, but it changes it from 0% chance to like a 50/50.
On November 12 2013 06:26 DURRHURRDERP wrote:True but again it's pointless to put actual active effort into it unless you're going to be playing a significant amount of arranged team games. Edit: I THINK WE ALL KNOW WHERE CSHEEP STANDS IN THIS REGARD ( http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/20793890#history)
i'm in the process of becoming f33red k0r34n cass
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one method of creating more perceived balanced team's could just be using an irc bot or league system to give everybody a" TLIHLOL elo" (seeded given player's current rank or self-evaluation). This can lead to players being able to track skill progression in the league and help build a sense of community, as well as avoid certain situations in which balancing is difficult without a guiding hand and when people's" actual skill" differ from their league rankings
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Sure the game "should be" played as an arranged team...but be realistic here, how many people can regularly play arranged 5s compared to solo queue?
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On November 12 2013 06:31 Kupon3ss wrote:
one method of creating more perceived balanced team's could just be using an irc bot or league system to give everybody a" TLIHLOL elo" (seeded given player's current rank or self-evaluation). This can lead to players being able to track skill progression in the league and help build a sense of community, as well as avoid certain situations in which balancing is difficult without a guiding hand and when people's" actual skill" differ from their league rankings
I nominate roffles to assign TL elo
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Baa?21247 Posts
On November 12 2013 06:32 DURRHURRDERP wrote:
Sure the game "should be" played as an arranged team...but be realistic here, how many people can regularly play arranged 5s compared to solo queue?
idk i've played so much more 5s than solo queue so maybe my perception is skewed but i think its not that hard at all to find a regular group of people to play 5s with considering how we have a ready-made community to draw on for anyone who's interested, people need to just take the first step and be like yo lets go play 5s instead of pressing play again and spamming solo q which is pretty pointless past a certain point
i dont see an advantage to playing solo q over 5s because if you're actively trying to get better you can improve both individual play as well as team play in 5s whereas its only easy to do the former spamming solo q; solo q is more "convenient" which honestly is the only real draw
On November 12 2013 06:33 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2013 06:31 Kupon3ss wrote:
one method of creating more perceived balanced team's could just be using an irc bot or league system to give everybody a" TLIHLOL elo" (seeded given player's current rank or self-evaluation). This can lead to players being able to track skill progression in the league and help build a sense of community, as well as avoid certain situations in which balancing is difficult without a guiding hand and when people's" actual skill" differ from their league rankings I nominate roffles to assign TL elo
roffles will assign us tl elo tiers including "shit" "cancer" toxic" "aids" etc.
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Your perception is definitely skewed towards 5s since you have a regular group to play with, the vast majority of people don't. I wouldn't say spamming solo queue games is pointless either but again my perception is probably skewed in that area since I improved the most playing solo queue and never really played arranged 5s.
Also I think it's far easier to move from being "top solo queue player" -> "top team player" rather than the reverse (IE: Faker).
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On November 12 2013 06:31 Kupon3ss wrote:
one method of creating more perceived balanced team's could just be using an irc bot or league system to give everybody a" TLIHLOL elo" (seeded given player's current rank or self-evaluation). This can lead to players being able to track skill progression in the league and help build a sense of community, as well as avoid certain situations in which balancing is difficult without a guiding hand and when people's" actual skill" differ from their league rankings
I have an ELO chart lodged in my head. It doesn't take a genius to figure some things out.
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EPT
