[GSL] Super Tournament 1 - Finals Day

On January 27 2022 17:25 Waxangel wrote:
Zest is worst good player of all time, and also the best bad player of all time. He's winning Katowice.

On January 27 2022 17:25 Waxangel wrote:
Zest is worst good player of all time, and also the best bad player of all time. He's winning Katowice.

On January 27 2022 17:32 True_Spike wrote:


I concur. The reason why he's often missing from 'best of all time' discussions is that sometimes what he does makes so little sense you just can't treat him seriously. And then he just shows up out of nowhere and wrecks face like no other.

On January 27 2022 17:32 True_Spike wrote:


I concur. The reason why he's often missing from 'best of all time' discussions is that sometimes what he does makes so little sense you just can't treat him seriously. And then he just shows up out of nowhere and wrecks face like no other.

On January 27 2022 17:57 Argonauta wrote:
it was a valiant final try, now I really hope Zoun wins because otherwise Dark is going to demolish Zest.

On January 27 2022 18:10 Durnuu wrote:
The fuck are you doing Zoun
Why isn't there a cannon in the middle of the pylons

On January 27 2022 18:20 DBooN wrote:
Lets hope he doesnt cancel the Zealots.

On January 27 2022 18:37 deacon.frost wrote:
I am still wondering why Maru didn't use any other build. He usually at least tries something else in a BO5. Eh, maybe he just had a bad day of stubborness.

On January 27 2022 19:05 Zambrah wrote:
I dunno, when was the last time a PvZ final was any good? Doubly so for a GSL anything

On January 27 2022 20:26 [PkF] Wire wrote:
That mass blink comp of Zest doesn't look scary anymore

On January 27 2022 20:29 Nakajin wrote:
Haha I almost spit out my coffee when I saw Zest warp in 17 stalker at once

Zest is best!

On January 27 2022 20:45 Vindicare605 wrote:
If Zest pulls this off, will he single handedly silence months and months of Protoss whining?

Probably not, but it's nice to think that it could be possible.

On January 27 2022 21:09 Spinoza wrote:
Elegant tailored build to kill Dark on the 7th map. Gorgeous.

On January 27 2022 21:13 Poopi wrote:
Congratulations Zest, Goat protoss at work once again!
Practice paid off, time to perform at Katowice

On January 27 2022 21:17 deacon.frost wrote:

Clem being a favorite for Kato? Why? I see him being a favorite for everything he enters despite never winning anything big.

On January 27 2022 21:31 deacon.frost wrote:

He won 7 premiers, the most of 2021 IIRC. Too lazy to check Just sayin.

On January 27 2022 21:37 deacon.frost wrote:

I'm not disproving the championship stuff though. He never delivered in the big tournaments EveRyBoDY wAnTS!!! (Code S, WC)

On January 27 2022 21:29 Vindicare605 wrote:
You know it feels kind of bad to beat up on Trap when he didn't do well in this tournament, but this is what I mean about the championship pedigree that Zest has that Trap doesn't.

Trap was on top of the world for how long and in that time how many tournaments did he win? Like 2? And one of them was relatively minor?

Zest hasn't been relevant in at least a year and he just comes out of nowhere and bullshits his way to a tournament win, stepping over both Maru and Dark in some of their most dominant forms in the process. The guy knows how to be a champion, he just knows how to get it done.

Yea I know he's been dominating the weeklies but this is different. Like seriously, who before this tournament started called it that Zest was gonna do what he did?

He has actual champion pedigree. One of few current Protoss players that does.

On January 27 2022 21:52 Poopi wrote:

Zest won as much money as Trap in 2021, he is the Katowice finalist two times in a row and should have won his Code S over Cure. He was the best protoss of 2021 so this is not super surprising that he can win this ST

On January 27 2022 21:42 Vindicare605 wrote:


Which obviously brings up the old and tired argument of what TL considers to be a premier tournament.

Something like Katowice and Code S deserve their own category. It's been the case for a long time. You COULD make the case that something like GSL Super Tournaments belong in that category too, but I wouldn't. The players don't value them as highly, Afreeca doesn't either. Katowice championships, Blizzcons and Code S all deserve their own special category of ultra premier or something similar that someone more clever with marketing can come up with.

On January 27 2022 21:56 Vindicare605 wrote:


Super surprising is not what I said. I already said I consider Zest to be one of the few Protoss with champion pedigree so of course I'm never gonna count him out as a non-contender.

But expecting THIS result.... come on, I never would have put my money on this happening and I'd be surprised if anyone would have unless they just like losing money,

If anything is a surprise it's how Zest continues to so effectively keep coming back despite never showing the kind of dominance other champions have. Maybe it's because he's so quiet and mature, maybe it's because of something else, I don't know. But Zest has somehow quietly managed to be one of the most consistently dominant players in SC2's history. It's impressive, it really is.

On January 27 2022 21:29 Vindicare605 wrote:
You know it feels kind of bad to beat up on Trap when he didn't do well in this tournament, but this is what I mean about the championship pedigree that Zest has that Trap doesn't.

On January 27 2022 23:00 Pandain wrote:
What's the next big tournament? Katowice?

On January 28 2022 00:30 Drfilip wrote:

I have a different opinion. Zest is the underdog vs Dark, Rogue, Trap, Cure, herO, Clem, and Reynor too.
Zest's play style does not make me believe in his chances to win in the long run. He is kind of like Bunny. The secret builds are important and match deciding. The supply of hidden strategies is limited. Great macro, micro, and decision making can only take you so far when you are making big mistakes in every other series.

On January 28 2022 02:20 Lokol18 wrote:


I mean, for most of maru's career he barely played outside of korea. That's like one of the things he is known for. It would make sense that he wouldn't be as successful outside of korea then

On January 28 2022 03:27 deacon.frost wrote:

Well he did, but he never delivered. Which is the point. Maru is weaker outside of Asia(so people stop complaining about WESG where the hardest part for a Korean player was the Korean qualification). It's not that he's that bad, but imagine 2018/9 - he was about to win another Code S(or he just won his 4th) and yet he didn't deliver the WC crown. That's the whole point. He was the best player of 2018 and he gets smashed by sOs in the RO8 of Blizzcon.

Maru outside of Korea is much weaker. He delivers great games, no question about that, but not results. Case in point Maru v Dear
Edit> Even the last IEM. Sure, he lost to the "future" winner Reynor, but what did Reynor do after that? Gone into hiding. What did Maru do? If Kato is offline Maru won't win it. Even in a great form he will run out of builds somewhere around the RO8/RO4. As is his standard.

On January 28 2022 03:37 deacon.frost wrote:

the point is he never. won. anything. That's the whole point. The exact same point applies for Trap v tier1 tournaments.

Edit> And this is not about "but other Terrans did the same or worse". Maru was the best Terran for years now. Maru won plenty of tournaments with the best players in them. Maru never won anything outside of Asia. I don't see how WESG which is basically identical time-zone(if not the same) applies to the fact Maru seems to have issues with travelling but whatever.

Maru is one of the best Terrans in the history of SC2. Yet he for some reason is weaker in the foreignerlands. TY won IEM. Byun won Blizzcon. Innovation is in the same boat

Edit 2> This is not shitting on Maru BTW. This is just stating why so many people think he won't win Katowice. Similarly many wouldn't consider Trap to win Katowice even if he was in a great form. Because the best he did in a "tier 1" tournament was 2nd. He's either cursed or otherwise blocked to win thes, unfortunately.

On January 28 2022 06:48 Charoisaur wrote:

Yeah he hasn't won anything. However is it because he played worse in foreign events or because he got unfortunate?
I think those results he had could have just as well also happened if the tournaments were played in korea. He wins more korean tournaments than anyone else but he isn't Flash and also loses a lot. At Katowice 2019 he clearly underperformed but I think at the other tournaments he didn't necessarily play worse than in korean tournaments.

He lost 2 times by 1 map to Rogue. Do you really think this couldn't have happened if the tournaments were played in korea?

On January 28 2022 08:03 Nakajin wrote:


Gamescom 2013, Blizzcon 2015, 2018, 2019, Kato 2015-19, there has been a good number of middly to bad performances from him at foreign event.

On January 28 2022 08:03 Nakajin wrote:


Gamescom 2013, Blizzcon 2015, 2018, 2019, Kato 2015-19, there has been a good number of middly to bad performances from him at foreign event.
Blizzcon 2013 was also a bit of a miss opportunity, maybe not a bad performance because JD was playing well, but MC into DuckDeok into JD to get to a world final was still a dream bracket.

Obviout he did well at WESG, but I'd say the big question mark is that there's no crowd at WESG (at least the one he won, I don't remember all of them) so presumably less media/event stuff with people speaking a forein language, there's also less travel time and little jet lag. And I mean obviously it's like a 3-4 players event, and he ended first, second and third at his three tries it's fairly on par with what one could expect.

On January 28 2022 07:21 Xain0n wrote:


Yes, he failed to reach the finals twice by one map, that could be bad luck(and it wasn't).

However, Maru has had the longest career out of every sc2 player and he has been top tier if not outright dominant at least in three different periods in the history of Sc2 and he has not won ONE tournament for which he had to travel consistently far from home; isn't it weird for a player who is(and was) that good?

On January 28 2022 17:27 Argonauta wrote:


Adding to this, Maru also hasn't won any tournament between 3PM and 7PM in my local time. Isnt it weird for a player who is(and was) that good?

On January 28 2022 17:27 Argonauta wrote:


Adding to this, Maru also hasn't won any tournament between 3PM and 7PM in my local time. Isnt it weird for a player who is(and was) that good?

On January 28 2022 22:37 Pandain wrote:


There's like a million reasons to rate WESG below many other tournaments. Why would people be biased? People love Maru.

There were exactly three Koreans at WESG. And this is at a time before foreigners were regularly putting up extremely competitive matches against Koreans.

To make the point even more: Look at WESG 2016. Do you really think that is a mammoth achievement for TY to beat, let's see, Maru,, and uh Neeb and Stephano? Comparable to a Blizzcon or Code S?

On January 28 2022 22:37 Pandain wrote:


There's like a million reasons to rate WESG below many other tournaments. Why would people be biased? People love Maru.

There were exactly three Koreans at WESG. And this is at a time before foreigners were regularly putting up extremely competitive matches against Koreans.

To make the point even more: Look at WESG 2016. Do you really think that is a mammoth achievement for TY to beat, let's see, Maru,, and uh Neeb and Stephano? Comparable to a Blizzcon or Code S?

On January 29 2022 08:40 Fanatic-Templar wrote:


No. Trap was the old champion, now we have a new one. So this is the first time we get a Protoss champion that isn't Trap since 2019. What's confusing?