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On September 14 2020 07:10 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2020 07:09 Morbidius wrote: People aren't complaining about Zerg because Zerg won one game in eternal empire, they're complaining about Zerg because Zerg has 100% tournament winrate outside of Korea for 3 years. Serral and Reynor do. Not Zerg. Or was Terran imbalanced because Terran won all the GSL's in 2018? Truth right here. Take away Serral and Reynor, suddenly you have a completely different picture. Elazer and Lambo are great, but nowhere near Serral and Reynor.
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After those comments I'm really hoping Rogue shows up to the season finals and just dominates Reynor. His ZvZ has looked top notch lately so I feel fairly good about it. I just wish the prize pool was higher since Rogue seems to lack motivation for these smaller events.
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On September 14 2020 07:10 sneakyfox wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2020 07:09 Morbidius wrote: People aren't complaining about Zerg because Zerg won one game in eternal empire, they're complaining about Zerg because Zerg has 100% tournament winrate outside of Korea for 3 years. Winrate in Korea not too shabby either
40% vs. Terran this season?
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I would not really blame for this loss, even though it is a lot harder to cheer for a Zerg favourite than a Terran underdog.
Clem seemed a bit one-dimentional. No proxy rax, no mech, little early timings, no BC openers, relying too much on liberator harass and ultimately his downfall: no answer for Reynor's lurker play. His multitasking and bio play is obviously amazing, but Innovation seemed to have even better MMMM pushes, adding marauders earlier and using them to tank in blings in front.
To take down someone like Reynor in 2 long series, you will have to be complete and keep him guessing.
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On September 14 2020 07:07 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2020 07:04 Luolis wrote:On September 14 2020 07:01 lolfail9001 wrote: Anyways, i might have missed something given how different pacing is, but i am fairly positive that something is off with meta when standard 2-2 push hits when Zerg is taking his 5th on 80+ drones, given that even in HotS it would be auto loss to Zerg on such economy. SC2 wasn't designed for 12 worker start and it's pretty clear. Nah, i am still of opinion that maps enable it more than quick start.
I wonder what would happen if we increase the distance between bases by, like, 20%. That would make it harder to connect them with creep (require more tumors to do so, which would then not be placed out on the map), and would make it harder for zerg to defend the early game. Could be an easy alternative to fixing the economy problem?
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 14 2020 07:12 JJH777 wrote: After those comments I'm really hoping Rogue shows up to the season finals and just dominates Reynor. His ZvZ has looked top notch lately so I feel fairly good about it. I just wish the prize pool was higher since Rogue seems to lack motivation for these smaller events. Nobody will take finals seriously because :"Cross-continental ping lol". Sadly.
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On September 14 2020 07:11 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2020 07:10 Lexender wrote:On September 14 2020 07:08 HolydaKing wrote:On September 14 2020 07:02 Lexender wrote:On September 14 2020 07:01 Calliope wrote: So still 2017 last time? Feeling really sorry for clem, such a multitasker. I wonder where he'd been had he chosen Z instead. Clem and Reynor are the same age and started playing at the same time, so people saying "he's still improving" act like Reynor isn't exactly like him but with the better race. Maybe, just possibly, we are blessed with two individuals in Reynor and Serral that are just better players. Them being same age doesn't mean they're supposed to be at the same skill level at all. In KR I don't think Terran is getting severely outmatched by Zergs in the last 3 years, are they? And those guys were, pre Serrals appearence, dominating everything. Z and T both are incredibly hard races to play at high level, just look how many Zergs there are that get owned by Gabe and Clem all the time and the same thing other way around. The 3 players that have dominated the most since LotVs release have been Serral, Reynor and Rogue. No correlation there besides pure casuality. I like how player that won 4 GSLs back to back does not qualify for your list.
He will if his wrist haven't imploded by the next GSL considering in his last stream he said he was having severe problems and having to cut practice.
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On September 14 2020 07:10 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2020 07:08 Zzzapper wrote:On September 14 2020 07:02 Lexender wrote:On September 14 2020 07:01 Calliope wrote: So still 2017 last time? Feeling really sorry for clem, such a multitasker. I wonder where he'd been had he chosen Z instead. Clem and Reynor are the same age and started playing at the same time, so people saying "he's still improving" act like Reynor isn't exactly like him but with the better race. That's ridiculous, Reynor was always better than Clem. Or has zerg just been overpowered for all of LotV? You got it ;; I'm tired of pretending that a race winning everything for 3 years is normal tbh.
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Reynor is much more personable than Serral, who has that cold aloofness - the two of them have a nice contrast in personality, which is nice
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 14 2020 07:13 Bagration wrote: Reynor is much more personable than Serral, who has that cold aloofness - the two of them have a nice contrast in personality, which is nice Apparently stereotypes about Italians and Finns are not stereotypes purely for laughs /s
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On September 14 2020 07:12 sneakyfox wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2020 07:07 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 14 2020 07:04 Luolis wrote:On September 14 2020 07:01 lolfail9001 wrote: Anyways, i might have missed something given how different pacing is, but i am fairly positive that something is off with meta when standard 2-2 push hits when Zerg is taking his 5th on 80+ drones, given that even in HotS it would be auto loss to Zerg on such economy. SC2 wasn't designed for 12 worker start and it's pretty clear. Nah, i am still of opinion that maps enable it more than quick start. I wonder what would happen if we increase the distance between bases by, like, 20%. That would make it harder to connect them with creep (require more tumors to do so, which would then not be placed out on the map), and would make it harder for zerg to defend the early game. Could be an easy alternative to fixing the economy problem?
Protoss's winrate in PvZ drops even further since they can't hold a third. Zerg has the fastest units, so adding more distance doesn't really hamper them that much.
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Disappointing, I think I'd honestly prefer if SC2 did just have one race. Or if all players switched to zerg. Really depressing following the foreigner scene with 3 races but only one wins.
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On September 14 2020 07:13 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2020 07:10 Luolis wrote:On September 14 2020 07:08 Zzzapper wrote:On September 14 2020 07:02 Lexender wrote:On September 14 2020 07:01 Calliope wrote: So still 2017 last time? Feeling really sorry for clem, such a multitasker. I wonder where he'd been had he chosen Z instead. Clem and Reynor are the same age and started playing at the same time, so people saying "he's still improving" act like Reynor isn't exactly like him but with the better race. That's ridiculous, Reynor was always better than Clem. Or has zerg just been overpowered for all of LotV? You got it ;; I'm tired of pretending that a race winning everything for 3 years is normal tbh.
You're making your life too easy by reducing this entire streak on a race, considering most Zerg (aka everyone but Serral and Reynor) are as far away from winning a tournament as all the other players.
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On September 14 2020 07:12 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2020 07:12 JJH777 wrote: After those comments I'm really hoping Rogue shows up to the season finals and just dominates Reynor. His ZvZ has looked top notch lately so I feel fairly good about it. I just wish the prize pool was higher since Rogue seems to lack motivation for these smaller events. Nobody will take finals seriously because :"Cross-continental ping lol". Sadly.
Why is that sad? Can it be otherwise?
We just saw a series played on 16ms ping. Cross finals will be 140-200ms for Korea-EU matches. I have no idea why anyone would consider that insignificant.
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Now let's go to North Aiur
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On September 14 2020 07:14 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2020 07:12 sneakyfox wrote:On September 14 2020 07:07 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 14 2020 07:04 Luolis wrote:On September 14 2020 07:01 lolfail9001 wrote: Anyways, i might have missed something given how different pacing is, but i am fairly positive that something is off with meta when standard 2-2 push hits when Zerg is taking his 5th on 80+ drones, given that even in HotS it would be auto loss to Zerg on such economy. SC2 wasn't designed for 12 worker start and it's pretty clear. Nah, i am still of opinion that maps enable it more than quick start. I wonder what would happen if we increase the distance between bases by, like, 20%. That would make it harder to connect them with creep (require more tumors to do so, which would then not be placed out on the map), and would make it harder for zerg to defend the early game. Could be an easy alternative to fixing the economy problem? Protoss's winrate in PvZ drops even further since they can't hold a third. Zerg has the fastest units, so adding more distance doesn't really hamper them that much. What could hamper Zerg is maps where taking 3 bases is safe and easy for every race. That is, 3 base behind one choke with a backdoor style like Dusk Towers.
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On September 14 2020 07:15 Calliope wrote: Disappointing, I think I'd honestly prefer if SC2 did just have one race. Or if all players switched to zerg. Really depressing following the foreigner scene with 3 races but only one wins. Keep watching the NA finals, I'm pretty sure we'll see a protoss champion unless Scarlett has practiced seriously and doesn't get tilted.
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Some Terran players: Serral, Reynor and Rogue win most weekenders and therefore Zerg is OP! Also some Terran players for entirety of LotV: Just because a few Korean Terrans win the lion's share of Code S trophies in LotV doesn't mean Terran is OP!
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On September 14 2020 07:15 Calliope wrote: Disappointing, I think I'd honestly prefer if SC2 did just have one race. Or if all players switched to zerg. Really depressing following the foreigner scene with 3 races but only one wins. I think this is just a monumental idea.
Blizzard could essentially bring their balance team down to just making the game fun as they always wanted. Fantastic thought. Why even bother letting Clem try to take a championship or Astrea or Neeb when everyone can be Zerg. I can literally feel the ground opening beneath my feet this is so earth shattering. I think I am just going to stop typing and just enjoy life fully for the first ti
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 14 2020 07:17 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2020 07:14 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On September 14 2020 07:12 sneakyfox wrote:On September 14 2020 07:07 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 14 2020 07:04 Luolis wrote:On September 14 2020 07:01 lolfail9001 wrote: Anyways, i might have missed something given how different pacing is, but i am fairly positive that something is off with meta when standard 2-2 push hits when Zerg is taking his 5th on 80+ drones, given that even in HotS it would be auto loss to Zerg on such economy. SC2 wasn't designed for 12 worker start and it's pretty clear. Nah, i am still of opinion that maps enable it more than quick start. I wonder what would happen if we increase the distance between bases by, like, 20%. That would make it harder to connect them with creep (require more tumors to do so, which would then not be placed out on the map), and would make it harder for zerg to defend the early game. Could be an easy alternative to fixing the economy problem? Protoss's winrate in PvZ drops even further since they can't hold a third. Zerg has the fastest units, so adding more distance doesn't really hamper them that much. What could hamper Zerg is maps where taking 3 bases is safe and easy for every race. That is, 3 base behind one choke with a backdoor style like Dusk Towers. Or alternatively the maps with 5th on the other corner of the map instead of 3 seconds away from 3rd/4th.
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