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On August 19 2019 23:54 Fango wrote:
Serral would have easily a won WeSG had he not lost to Maru in the ro4.
"Not as his peak" please. He went 3-0 Neeb, 3-0 Lambo, 3-0 Showtime, 3-0 Elazer, and 3-1 Classic in the same event.
Just because Serral lost (to Maru of all people) doesn't mean he wasn't already in his stride. Just because he didn't win every tournament he entered at the time lmao. He's never done that and doesn't even do that now.
That's negationism at best, Serral won every offline tournament he entered(and every online tournament but one) starting after April in 2018 and ending after February, 2019.
He wasn't the best zerg in the world at the time he lost against Maru and he hadn't demonstrated he could win international tournaments with koreans at the time, he was just starting to rise(he lost to Scarlett at Pyeonchang just one month before that and he won his FIRST premier tournament right before).
Serral peaked later, roughly in the following patch(and no, he's not a patchzerg since no tier 4 Zerg suddenly started winning championships, do you remember JohnnyREcco? On the contrary, Serral was the only Zerg winning during that period, with only Reynor reaching a Premier final), and it was crystal clear he stepped up. The results you listed just testify he already was at the top of WCS when WESG 2017 occurred, and beating Classic was very impressive but he already showed at IEM Katowice some weeks before he could win bo5 against top koreans.
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An encounter or 2 doesn't mean anything. They didn't meet enough to asset anything.
We do not have enough data to know who is the best between the two. And it will remain this way for a while.
You guys can argue as much as you want but it's all for nothing.
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On August 20 2019 06:21 ronin_1138 wrote:
An encounter or 2 doesn't mean anything. They didn't meet enough to asset anything.
We do not have enough data to know who is the best between the two. And it will remain this way for a while.
You guys can argue as much as you want but it's all for nothing.
1v1 doesn’t determine who’s better.
What we do know is that Maru has the far more impressive titles
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On August 20 2019 06:52 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2019 06:21 ronin_1138 wrote:
An encounter or 2 doesn't mean anything. They didn't meet enough to asset anything.
We do not have enough data to know who is the best between the two. And it will remain this way for a while.
You guys can argue as much as you want but it's all for nothing. 1v1 doesn’t determine who’s better. What we do know is that Maru has the far more impressive titles
Well if you have 10-20 games played yes you it can be a good sign to who is better.
Titles don't matter if they are not in same tournament. All that I know is that every tournaments that both of them entered in Serral always came up with a better finish.
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I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results.
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On August 20 2019 08:21 ronin_1138 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2019 06:52 BerserkSword wrote:On August 20 2019 06:21 ronin_1138 wrote:
An encounter or 2 doesn't mean anything. They didn't meet enough to asset anything.
We do not have enough data to know who is the best between the two. And it will remain this way for a while.
You guys can argue as much as you want but it's all for nothing. 1v1 doesn’t determine who’s better. What we do know is that Maru has the far more impressive titles Well if you have 10-20 games played yes you it can be a good sign to who is better. Titles don't matter if they are not in same tournament. All that I know is that every tournaments that both of them entered in Serral always came up with a better finish.
Titles definitely matter, especially when Maru has titles in the most prestigious tournament in the scene while serral has never even participated in them.
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On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results.
Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments.
maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament
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On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament
Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore).
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On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore).
Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies.
Doesn’t take away from how absurdly decorated his career is.
WCS is nowhere near as difficult as GSL tournaments. There is a huge gap in the overall level of play.
International tournaments aren’t as difficult either since there are fewer elite Koreans and there isn’t as much specific preparation.
Code S is by far the pinnacle of Starcraft in terms of skill thanks to the preparation factor and it’s not even close.
I’m not saying serral wouldn’t find success in code S. In fact I think he would if he can avoid guys like stats and innovation. Guys like classic,Maru, ty, trap, dark, solar, etc are capable of taking a series off of serral too. But as of now serral hasn’t done it. He hasn’t run the gauntlet
My eye test says serral is better than Maru but serrals career is nowhere near as impressive.
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On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Doesn’t take away from how absurdly decorated his career is. WCS is nowhere near as difficult as GSL tournaments. There is a huge gap in the overall level of play. International tournaments aren’t as difficult either since there are fewer elite Koreans and there isn’t as much specific preparation. Code S is by far the pinnacle of Starcraft in terms of skill thanks to the preparation factor and it’s not even close. I’m not saying serral wouldn’t find success in code S. In fact I think he would if he can avoid guys like stats and innovation. Guys like classic,Maru, ty, trap, dark, solar, etc are capable of taking a series off of serral too. But as of now serral hasn’t done it. He hasn’t run the gauntlet My eye test says serral is better than Maru but serrals career is nowhere near as impressive.
Depends who you ask I think serral is much more impressive then maru carrier wise
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On August 22 2019 13:56 Conut wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Doesn’t take away from how absurdly decorated his career is. WCS is nowhere near as difficult as GSL tournaments. There is a huge gap in the overall level of play. International tournaments aren’t as difficult either since there are fewer elite Koreans and there isn’t as much specific preparation. Code S is by far the pinnacle of Starcraft in terms of skill thanks to the preparation factor and it’s not even close. I’m not saying serral wouldn’t find success in code S. In fact I think he would if he can avoid guys like stats and innovation. Guys like classic,Maru, ty, trap, dark, solar, etc are capable of taking a series off of serral too. But as of now serral hasn’t done it. He hasn’t run the gauntlet My eye test says serral is better than Maru but serrals career is nowhere near as impressive. Depends who you ask I think serral is much more impressive then maru carrier wise
The only way serrals career comes close to Marus is if you judge based on prize money.
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On August 22 2019 13:56 Conut wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Doesn’t take away from how absurdly decorated his career is. WCS is nowhere near as difficult as GSL tournaments. There is a huge gap in the overall level of play. International tournaments aren’t as difficult either since there are fewer elite Koreans and there isn’t as much specific preparation. Code S is by far the pinnacle of Starcraft in terms of skill thanks to the preparation factor and it’s not even close. I’m not saying serral wouldn’t find success in code S. In fact I think he would if he can avoid guys like stats and innovation. Guys like classic,Maru, ty, trap, dark, solar, etc are capable of taking a series off of serral too. But as of now serral hasn’t done it. He hasn’t run the gauntlet My eye test says serral is better than Maru but serrals career is nowhere near as impressive. Depends who you ask I think serral is much more impressive then maru carrier wise
Serral's carreer is more impressive than the guy who #2nd in the GOAT race? Then he would be #1 and not Innovation then?
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On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore).
His record in international tournaments since the start of 2018: Won 4 times, reached the finals in 1, the ro4 3 times and ro8 1 time.
That's certainly impressive but in no way an "unprecedended godlike performance" like you want it to be so badly. Maru, Inno, Life, Rogue and Zest had similar streaks during their peak.
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France12911 Posts
On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies.
Maru a patch terran, wtf do I read in early morning :o.
If anything he is the opposite of patch terran, winning on shit terran patches.
Plus, he has the best mechanics / micro currently in LotV.
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Northern Ireland26362 Posts
On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Doesn’t take away from how absurdly decorated his career is. WCS is nowhere near as difficult as GSL tournaments. There is a huge gap in the overall level of play. International tournaments aren’t as difficult either since there are fewer elite Koreans and there isn’t as much specific preparation. Code S is by far the pinnacle of Starcraft in terms of skill thanks to the preparation factor and it’s not even close. I’m not saying serral wouldn’t find success in code S. In fact I think he would if he can avoid guys like stats and innovation. Guys like classic,Maru, ty, trap, dark, solar, etc are capable of taking a series off of serral too. But as of now serral hasn’t done it. He hasn’t run the gauntlet My eye test says serral is better than Maru but serrals career is nowhere near as impressive.
I don’t see how international tournaments aren’t equally as difficult, you have to play on the hoof, and outside of your first match or your group you’re second guessing the brackets as to who awaits, you can have to play all your matchups in a weekend rather than prep for one over an extended period of time.
I love preparation games for the sheer strategy and execution you see, I don’t think they’re necessarily benchmark when assessing individual players because preparation is a team effort, be it a formal team or with your pool of practice partners.
I have a bit of a hunch that weekender Maru is Maru without other people giving him his gameplans, $o$ especially. We don’t really know much about the work that goes on behind these victories in any detail, but my sketchy speculation is somewhat backed by sOs dismantling Maru at Blizzcon at a weekender when they were in direct competition. Not to besmirch Maru at all, he’s only ‘merely’ the most mechanically strong player the game has yet seen, maybe excepting peak Inno.
Code S and big international tournaments are roughly equivalent in terms of the run you have to do to win. Yes not every top Korean is present, but you don’t play every player in the field at either tournament. TY, Trap and Classic would be a pretty tough playoffs run at any GSL and I’d wager some champions have had easier than Serral’s GSLvstW
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France12911 Posts
On August 22 2019 16:48 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Doesn’t take away from how absurdly decorated his career is. WCS is nowhere near as difficult as GSL tournaments. There is a huge gap in the overall level of play. International tournaments aren’t as difficult either since there are fewer elite Koreans and there isn’t as much specific preparation. Code S is by far the pinnacle of Starcraft in terms of skill thanks to the preparation factor and it’s not even close. I’m not saying serral wouldn’t find success in code S. In fact I think he would if he can avoid guys like stats and innovation. Guys like classic,Maru, ty, trap, dark, solar, etc are capable of taking a series off of serral too. But as of now serral hasn’t done it. He hasn’t run the gauntlet My eye test says serral is better than Maru but serrals career is nowhere near as impressive. I don’t see how international tournaments aren’t equally as difficult, you have to play on the hoof, and outside of your first match or your group you’re second guessing the brackets as to who awaits, you can have to play all your matchups in a weekend rather than prep for one over an extended period of time. I love preparation games for the sheer strategy and execution you see, I don’t think they’re necessarily benchmark when assessing individual players because preparation is a team effort, be it a formal team or with your pool of practice partners. I have a bit of a hunch that weekender Maru is Maru without other people giving him his gameplans, $o$ especially. We don’t really know much about the work that goes on behind these victories in any detail, but my sketchy speculation is somewhat backed by sOs dismantling Maru at Blizzcon at a weekender when they were in direct competition. Not to besmirch Maru at all, he’s only ‘merely’ the most mechanically strong player the game has yet seen, maybe excepting peak Inno. Code S and big international tournaments are roughly equivalent in terms of the run you have to do to win. Yes not every top Korean is present, but you don’t play every player in the field at either tournament. TY, Trap and Classic would be a pretty tough playoffs run at any GSL and I’d wager some champions have had easier than Serral’s GSLvstW
I don’t think the sOs example is a very good one to support your claim, mainly because Terran was bad on that patch in TvP and proxies were a gimmick. There was no real plan other than proxy and hope for the best but sOs knew about all of them since he helped Maru come with all the variations.
On the other hand, we don’t know how much builds / plans were Maru’s during the first two seasons of code S where it wasn’t proxy patch yet, or during GSL season 4.
Preparation doesn’t help only Maru but all terrans btw. Since he is the best Terran, he’ll have the most discrepancy between weekender and preparation (especially considering the quality teammates he got that helps him get the best of preparation)
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On August 22 2019 17:18 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 16:48 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Doesn’t take away from how absurdly decorated his career is. WCS is nowhere near as difficult as GSL tournaments. There is a huge gap in the overall level of play. International tournaments aren’t as difficult either since there are fewer elite Koreans and there isn’t as much specific preparation. Code S is by far the pinnacle of Starcraft in terms of skill thanks to the preparation factor and it’s not even close. I’m not saying serral wouldn’t find success in code S. In fact I think he would if he can avoid guys like stats and innovation. Guys like classic,Maru, ty, trap, dark, solar, etc are capable of taking a series off of serral too. But as of now serral hasn’t done it. He hasn’t run the gauntlet My eye test says serral is better than Maru but serrals career is nowhere near as impressive. I don’t see how international tournaments aren’t equally as difficult, you have to play on the hoof, and outside of your first match or your group you’re second guessing the brackets as to who awaits, you can have to play all your matchups in a weekend rather than prep for one over an extended period of time. I love preparation games for the sheer strategy and execution you see, I don’t think they’re necessarily benchmark when assessing individual players because preparation is a team effort, be it a formal team or with your pool of practice partners. I have a bit of a hunch that weekender Maru is Maru without other people giving him his gameplans, $o$ especially. We don’t really know much about the work that goes on behind these victories in any detail, but my sketchy speculation is somewhat backed by sOs dismantling Maru at Blizzcon at a weekender when they were in direct competition. Not to besmirch Maru at all, he’s only ‘merely’ the most mechanically strong player the game has yet seen, maybe excepting peak Inno. Code S and big international tournaments are roughly equivalent in terms of the run you have to do to win. Yes not every top Korean is present, but you don’t play every player in the field at either tournament. TY, Trap and Classic would be a pretty tough playoffs run at any GSL and I’d wager some champions have had easier than Serral’s GSLvstW I don’t think the sOs example is a very good one to support your claim, mainly because Terran was bad on that patch in TvP and proxies were a gimmick. There was no real plan other than proxy and hope for the best but sOs knew about all of them since he helped Maru come with all the variations. On the other hand, we don’t know how much builds / plans were Maru’s during the first two seasons of code S where it wasn’t proxy patch yet, or during GSL season 4. Preparation doesn’t help only Maru but all terrans btw. Since he is the best Terran, he’ll have the most discrepancy between weekender and preparation (especially considering the quality teammates he got that helps him get the best of preparation)
A noticeable thing about Maru's style of play at a lot of weekenders is how repetitive and gimmicky it is a lot of the time. He will do one thing that works and just abuse the hell out of it, kind of like herO in a way. I'm inclined to believe that a lot of his prepared builds are developed at least in tandem with the other Jin Air players.
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On August 22 2019 13:56 Conut wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Doesn’t take away from how absurdly decorated his career is. WCS is nowhere near as difficult as GSL tournaments. There is a huge gap in the overall level of play. International tournaments aren’t as difficult either since there are fewer elite Koreans and there isn’t as much specific preparation. Code S is by far the pinnacle of Starcraft in terms of skill thanks to the preparation factor and it’s not even close. I’m not saying serral wouldn’t find success in code S. In fact I think he would if he can avoid guys like stats and innovation. Guys like classic,Maru, ty, trap, dark, solar, etc are capable of taking a series off of serral too. But as of now serral hasn’t done it. He hasn’t run the gauntlet My eye test says serral is better than Maru but serrals career is nowhere near as impressive. Depends who you ask I think serral is much more impressive then maru carrier wise
Do people actually think this? Arguments for Serral being better than Maru right now, or being bonjwa etc at least have some sort of valid claim behind them.
How can anyone look at Serral's career history and put him above Mvp, Zest, sOs, Rogue, INno, Life, soO, Taeja, Dark, Stats, Maru etc. They have all had similar or better streaks, across much longer time periods. And won many more (and more difficult) tournaments than Serral. With the exception of soO I guess if you wanna get technical
I'm just gonna assume you aren't familiar with years before 2018
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Northern Ireland26362 Posts
On August 23 2019 01:48 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 13:56 Conut wrote:On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Doesn’t take away from how absurdly decorated his career is. WCS is nowhere near as difficult as GSL tournaments. There is a huge gap in the overall level of play. International tournaments aren’t as difficult either since there are fewer elite Koreans and there isn’t as much specific preparation. Code S is by far the pinnacle of Starcraft in terms of skill thanks to the preparation factor and it’s not even close. I’m not saying serral wouldn’t find success in code S. In fact I think he would if he can avoid guys like stats and innovation. Guys like classic,Maru, ty, trap, dark, solar, etc are capable of taking a series off of serral too. But as of now serral hasn’t done it. He hasn’t run the gauntlet My eye test says serral is better than Maru but serrals career is nowhere near as impressive. Depends who you ask I think serral is much more impressive then maru carrier wise Do people actually think this? Arguments for Serral being better than Maru right now, or being bonjwa etc at least have some sort of valid claim behind them. How can anyone look at Serral's career history and put him above Mvp, Zest, sOs, Rogue, INno, Life, soO, Taeja, Dark, Stats, Maru etc. They have all had similar or better streaks, across much longer time periods. And won many more (and more difficult) tournaments than Serral. With the exception of soO I guess if you wanna get technical I'm just gonna assume you aren't familiar with years before 2018
They’re not foreigners who broke through a certain barrier and have a crazy streak, top win% vs Korean opposition etc.
I don’t think Serral is necessarily above a bunch of players in that list really, but he’s definitely in the conversation
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On August 22 2019 16:17 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Maru a patch terran, wtf do I read in early morning :o. If anything he is the opposite of patch terran, winning on shit terran patches. Plus, he has the best mechanics / micro currently in LotV.
Maru doesn’t have the best mechanics lol
That’s why he fears TvT so much.
Serral has better mechanics than Maru
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EPT
