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On August 23 2019 05:51 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 16:17 Poopi wrote:On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Maru a patch terran, wtf do I read in early morning :o. If anything he is the opposite of patch terran, winning on shit terran patches. Plus, he has the best mechanics / micro currently in LotV. Maru doesn’t have the best mechanics lol That’s why he fears TvT so much. Serral has better mechanics than Maru
That doesn't make sense, TvT is the terran matchup in which mechanics are least important.
Maru has better mechanics than Serral.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On August 23 2019 05:51 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 16:17 Poopi wrote:On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Maru a patch terran, wtf do I read in early morning :o. If anything he is the opposite of patch terran, winning on shit terran patches. Plus, he has the best mechanics / micro currently in LotV. Maru doesn’t have the best mechanics lol That’s why he fears TvT so much. Serral has better mechanics than Maru
I really don’t think that is the case at all. Serral is still a monster mechanically but his real strength is making the correct decision, almost all of the time and being strategically if not ahead of the curve at least on it,
Maru purely mechanically is better than everyone, he just doesn’t make the right reads and reactions in the same way Serral does, at least in weekender.
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On August 23 2019 05:59 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2019 05:51 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 16:17 Poopi wrote:On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Maru a patch terran, wtf do I read in early morning :o. If anything he is the opposite of patch terran, winning on shit terran patches. Plus, he has the best mechanics / micro currently in LotV. Maru doesn’t have the best mechanics lol That’s why he fears TvT so much. Serral has better mechanics than Maru That doesn't make sense, TvT is the terran matchup in which mechanics are least important. Maru has better mechanics than Serral.
I don't know who's the best in that regard, they are both mechanical monsters. Maru may have better micro, but I'm not convinced he's stronger overall.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On August 23 2019 06:04 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2019 05:59 Charoisaur wrote:On August 23 2019 05:51 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 16:17 Poopi wrote:On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Maru a patch terran, wtf do I read in early morning :o. If anything he is the opposite of patch terran, winning on shit terran patches. Plus, he has the best mechanics / micro currently in LotV. Maru doesn’t have the best mechanics lol That’s why he fears TvT so much. Serral has better mechanics than Maru That doesn't make sense, TvT is the terran matchup in which mechanics are least important. Maru has better mechanics than Serral. I don't know who's the best in that regard, they are both mechanical monsters. Maru may have better micro, but I'm not convinced he's stronger overall.
He can’t not, at the elite level anyway. You can’t micro like Terrans can (potentially) do with the other two races. Terran just has more flashy micro they can do anyway, even stellar Protoss micro gets the ‘Protossed’ treatment,
Serral just beats everyone, more or less and S class Koreans refer to him as either outright the best player in the world or at least the best Zerg in the world.
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On August 22 2019 16:48 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Doesn’t take away from how absurdly decorated his career is. WCS is nowhere near as difficult as GSL tournaments. There is a huge gap in the overall level of play. International tournaments aren’t as difficult either since there are fewer elite Koreans and there isn’t as much specific preparation. Code S is by far the pinnacle of Starcraft in terms of skill thanks to the preparation factor and it’s not even close. I’m not saying serral wouldn’t find success in code S. In fact I think he would if he can avoid guys like stats and innovation. Guys like classic,Maru, ty, trap, dark, solar, etc are capable of taking a series off of serral too. But as of now serral hasn’t done it. He hasn’t run the gauntlet My eye test says serral is better than Maru but serrals career is nowhere near as impressive. I don’t see how international tournaments aren’t equally as difficult, you have to play on the hoof, and outside of your first match or your group you’re second guessing the brackets as to who awaits, you can have to play all your matchups in a weekend rather than prep for one over an extended period of time. I love preparation games for the sheer strategy and execution you see, I don’t think they’re necessarily benchmark when assessing individual players because preparation is a team effort, be it a formal team or with your pool of practice partners. I have a bit of a hunch that weekender Maru is Maru without other people giving him his gameplans, $o$ especially. We don’t really know much about the work that goes on behind these victories in any detail, but my sketchy speculation is somewhat backed by sOs dismantling Maru at Blizzcon at a weekender when they were in direct competition. Not to besmirch Maru at all, he’s only ‘merely’ the most mechanically strong player the game has yet seen, maybe excepting peak Inno. Code S and big international tournaments are roughly equivalent in terms of the run you have to do to win. Yes not every top Korean is present, but you don’t play every player in the field at either tournament. TY, Trap and Classic would be a pretty tough playoffs run at any GSL and I’d wager some champions have had easier than Serral’s GSLvstW
International tournaments don’t have as many Koreans as GSL tournaments. The competition is much much better in Korean tournaments.
Preparation tournaments add another massive dynamic to the strategy game. Preparation tournaments are the pinnacle because this is a strategy game. Players play off the hoof on ladder too.
While brainstorming does occur among players, it is still up to the individual player to assess situations and execute.
While sOs wasn’t the favorite, I wouldn’t chalk it up to sOs merely knowing Marus bag of tricks. sOs is one of the greatest players of all time and one of his nicknames is the trickster, and Maru went in using his one trick. Supports the argument that Maru was carried by proxies and ravens.
I don’t think Maru has the best mechanics of all time either. I think serral had the best mechanics last year. Stats and rogue better mechanics than maru too.
Serrals gsl vs the world run was stacked but gsl v w is like an all star game with no group rounds and players voted in. It’s not a typical weekender
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On August 23 2019 05:59 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2019 05:51 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 16:17 Poopi wrote:On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Maru a patch terran, wtf do I read in early morning :o. If anything he is the opposite of patch terran, winning on shit terran patches. Plus, he has the best mechanics / micro currently in LotV. Maru doesn’t have the best mechanics lol That’s why he fears TvT so much. Serral has better mechanics than Maru That doesn't make sense, TvT is the terran matchup in which mechanics are least important. Maru has better mechanics than Serral.
TvT is the most mechanically demanding Terran matchhup
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France12906 Posts
On August 23 2019 06:01 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2019 05:51 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 16:17 Poopi wrote:On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Maru a patch terran, wtf do I read in early morning :o. If anything he is the opposite of patch terran, winning on shit terran patches. Plus, he has the best mechanics / micro currently in LotV. Maru doesn’t have the best mechanics lol That’s why he fears TvT so much. Serral has better mechanics than Maru I really don’t think that is the case at all. Serral is still a monster mechanically but his real strength is making the correct decision, almost all of the time and being strategically if not ahead of the curve at least on it, Maru purely mechanically is better than everyone, he just doesn’t make the right reads and reactions in the same way Serral does, at least in weekender.
You can’t compare decision making across races.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On August 22 2019 17:18 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 16:48 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 22 2019 12:46 BerserkSword wrote:On August 22 2019 10:47 Xain0n wrote:On August 22 2019 10:29 BerserkSword wrote:On August 21 2019 00:13 droppanda wrote:
I think consistency is the most important factor, Serral far more consistent results. Serral has consistent results in inferior tournaments. maru has a dominating streak in the most impressive tourbament Inferior? Don't make me laugh, Serral has consistent results in international tournaments(World Championships included), not only in WCS(that by itself is less prestigious than Code S, but not really that much easier anymore). Look man I think Maru is basically a patch Terran (with regards to his results) who achieved what he did thanks to ravens and proxies. Doesn’t take away from how absurdly decorated his career is. WCS is nowhere near as difficult as GSL tournaments. There is a huge gap in the overall level of play. International tournaments aren’t as difficult either since there are fewer elite Koreans and there isn’t as much specific preparation. Code S is by far the pinnacle of Starcraft in terms of skill thanks to the preparation factor and it’s not even close. I’m not saying serral wouldn’t find success in code S. In fact I think he would if he can avoid guys like stats and innovation. Guys like classic,Maru, ty, trap, dark, solar, etc are capable of taking a series off of serral too. But as of now serral hasn’t done it. He hasn’t run the gauntlet My eye test says serral is better than Maru but serrals career is nowhere near as impressive. I don’t see how international tournaments aren’t equally as difficult, you have to play on the hoof, and outside of your first match or your group you’re second guessing the brackets as to who awaits, you can have to play all your matchups in a weekend rather than prep for one over an extended period of time. I love preparation games for the sheer strategy and execution you see, I don’t think they’re necessarily benchmark when assessing individual players because preparation is a team effort, be it a formal team or with your pool of practice partners. I have a bit of a hunch that weekender Maru is Maru without other people giving him his gameplans, $o$ especially. We don’t really know much about the work that goes on behind these victories in any detail, but my sketchy speculation is somewhat backed by sOs dismantling Maru at Blizzcon at a weekender when they were in direct competition. Not to besmirch Maru at all, he’s only ‘merely’ the most mechanically strong player the game has yet seen, maybe excepting peak Inno. Code S and big international tournaments are roughly equivalent in terms of the run you have to do to win. Yes not every top Korean is present, but you don’t play every player in the field at either tournament. TY, Trap and Classic would be a pretty tough playoffs run at any GSL and I’d wager some champions have had easier than Serral’s GSLvstW I don’t think the sOs example is a very good one to support your claim, mainly because Terran was bad on that patch in TvP and proxies were a gimmick. There was no real plan other than proxy and hope for the best but sOs knew about all of them since he helped Maru come with all the variations. On the other hand, we don’t know how much builds / plans were Maru’s during the first two seasons of code S where it wasn’t proxy patch yet, or during GSL season 4. Preparation doesn’t help only Maru but all terrans btw. Since he is the best Terran, he’ll have the most discrepancy between weekender and preparation (especially considering the quality teammates he got that helps him get the best of preparation)
Even if you have limited meta options trying to do that vs someone familiar with your style is basically the worst plan possible, which was kind of my point.
You see monster Maru in Proleague and GSL or other StarLeagues with prep, you don’t see it in weekenders where he has to do it himself, historically anyway.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
If you can’t compare decision making across races you can’t compare micro either because Terran scales so well with it and gives more opportunities for it to be in shown
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I never thought of serral’s greatest strength as his decision making (don’t get me wrong it’s among the best)
Serral is a mechanical juggernaut. Mechanics are his greatest strength. He wins based on constant macro and efficient engages. This is why he never gets swept like maru does. His peerless mechanics make sure it never happens.
At the same time you can see how decision making /dynamic play are not his greatest strengths when someone manages to topple him. When the games got crazy vs soo at iem he fell (Zerg players like solar said soo has a weird style that they hate playing). Reynor who can play pretty chaotically has beaten serral. Serral was not prepared for a carrier runby from stats - he was playing robotically with his swarm host all in. Or that boink staked push at Hsc. Innovation is a pretty standard player though.
Not saying serral is bad in these regards. He’s phenomenal. Just saying that his mechanics are his greatest strength.
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France12906 Posts
On August 23 2019 06:57 BerserkSword wrote:
I never thought of serral’s greatest strength as his decision making (don’t get me wrong it’s among the best)
Serral is a mechanical juggernaut. Mechanics are his greatest strength. He wins based on constant macro and efficient engages. This is why he never gets swept like maru does. His peerless mechanics make sure it never happens.
At the same time you can see how decision making /dynamic play are not his greatest strengths when someone manages to topple him. When the games got crazy vs soo at iem he fell (Zerg players like solar said soo has a weird style that they hate playing). Reynor who can play pretty chaotically has beaten serral. Serral was not prepared for a carrier runby from stats - he was playing robotically with his swarm host all in. Or that boink staked push at Hsc. Innovation is a pretty standard player though.
Not saying serral is bad in these regards. He’s phenomenal. Just saying that his mechanics are his greatest strength.
?
That’s bullshit at best.
Serral at BlizzCon 2018 wasn’t outplaying Rogue mechanically... they were both around the same level.
He was just playing « better » for the long run, with better small decisions, probably because he had a better plan in his head than Rogue / figured out better how the game should go.
His mechanics are good but nothing out of the ordinary, it’s mostly good decisions after good decisions / good knowledge and reactions.
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On August 23 2019 07:31 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2019 06:57 BerserkSword wrote:
I never thought of serral’s greatest strength as his decision making (don’t get me wrong it’s among the best)
Serral is a mechanical juggernaut. Mechanics are his greatest strength. He wins based on constant macro and efficient engages. This is why he never gets swept like maru does. His peerless mechanics make sure it never happens.
At the same time you can see how decision making /dynamic play are not his greatest strengths when someone manages to topple him. When the games got crazy vs soo at iem he fell (Zerg players like solar said soo has a weird style that they hate playing). Reynor who can play pretty chaotically has beaten serral. Serral was not prepared for a carrier runby from stats - he was playing robotically with his swarm host all in. Or that boink staked push at Hsc. Innovation is a pretty standard player though.
Not saying serral is bad in these regards. He’s phenomenal. Just saying that his mechanics are his greatest strength. ? That’s bullshit at best. Serral at BlizzCon 2018 wasn’t outplaying Rogue mechanically... they were both around the same level. He was just playing « better » for the long run, with better small decisions, probably because he had a better plan in his head than Rogue / figured out better how the game should go. His mechanics are good but nothing out of the ordinary, it’s mostly good decisions after good decisions / good knowledge and reactions.
I think the one thing about his mechanics that's especially good, for me, is his multitask/defense. It's usually very hard to get good drone damage on him in the early game with standard builds (Stats has done it before though).
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On August 23 2019 07:31 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2019 06:57 BerserkSword wrote:
I never thought of serral’s greatest strength as his decision making (don’t get me wrong it’s among the best)
Serral is a mechanical juggernaut. Mechanics are his greatest strength. He wins based on constant macro and efficient engages. This is why he never gets swept like maru does. His peerless mechanics make sure it never happens.
At the same time you can see how decision making /dynamic play are not his greatest strengths when someone manages to topple him. When the games got crazy vs soo at iem he fell (Zerg players like solar said soo has a weird style that they hate playing). Reynor who can play pretty chaotically has beaten serral. Serral was not prepared for a carrier runby from stats - he was playing robotically with his swarm host all in. Or that boink staked push at Hsc. Innovation is a pretty standard player though.
Not saying serral is bad in these regards. He’s phenomenal. Just saying that his mechanics are his greatest strength. ? That’s bullshit at best. Serral at BlizzCon 2018 wasn’t outplaying Rogue mechanically... they were both around the same level. He was just playing « better » for the long run, with better small decisions, probably because he had a better plan in his head than Rogue / figured out better how the game should go. His mechanics are good but nothing out of the ordinary, it’s mostly good decisions after good decisions / good knowledge and reactions.
The only bullshit i see is saying a mechanical juggernaut’s mechanics are “nothing out of the ordinary”
Rogue has better mechanics than maru too btw. Rogue was eclipsed by serral, mechanically , though
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France12906 Posts
On August 23 2019 07:38 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2019 07:31 Poopi wrote:On August 23 2019 06:57 BerserkSword wrote:
I never thought of serral’s greatest strength as his decision making (don’t get me wrong it’s among the best)
Serral is a mechanical juggernaut. Mechanics are his greatest strength. He wins based on constant macro and efficient engages. This is why he never gets swept like maru does. His peerless mechanics make sure it never happens.
At the same time you can see how decision making /dynamic play are not his greatest strengths when someone manages to topple him. When the games got crazy vs soo at iem he fell (Zerg players like solar said soo has a weird style that they hate playing). Reynor who can play pretty chaotically has beaten serral. Serral was not prepared for a carrier runby from stats - he was playing robotically with his swarm host all in. Or that boink staked push at Hsc. Innovation is a pretty standard player though.
Not saying serral is bad in these regards. He’s phenomenal. Just saying that his mechanics are his greatest strength. ? That’s bullshit at best. Serral at BlizzCon 2018 wasn’t outplaying Rogue mechanically... they were both around the same level. He was just playing « better » for the long run, with better small decisions, probably because he had a better plan in his head than Rogue / figured out better how the game should go. His mechanics are good but nothing out of the ordinary, it’s mostly good decisions after good decisions / good knowledge and reactions. The only bullshit i see is saying a mechanical juggernaut’s mechanics are “nothing out of the ordinary” Rogue has better mechanics than maru too btw. Rogue was eclipsed by serral, mechanically , though
Rogue with better mechanics than Maru wtf lol?
As pointed out earlier, Terran peaks with mechanical skill, so the best mechanical Terran will have better « mechanics » because it’s the only race that makes mechanics shine the brightest, kinda like Fox in smash melee. So we can’t really know if Rogue/Serral would have as good micro as Terran as micro as Maru, but I highly doubt it.
He kind of always had the good micro but only managed to take his perfect mechanics to their full potential in 2018+
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On August 23 2019 07:49 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2019 07:38 BerserkSword wrote:On August 23 2019 07:31 Poopi wrote:On August 23 2019 06:57 BerserkSword wrote:
I never thought of serral’s greatest strength as his decision making (don’t get me wrong it’s among the best)
Serral is a mechanical juggernaut. Mechanics are his greatest strength. He wins based on constant macro and efficient engages. This is why he never gets swept like maru does. His peerless mechanics make sure it never happens.
At the same time you can see how decision making /dynamic play are not his greatest strengths when someone manages to topple him. When the games got crazy vs soo at iem he fell (Zerg players like solar said soo has a weird style that they hate playing). Reynor who can play pretty chaotically has beaten serral. Serral was not prepared for a carrier runby from stats - he was playing robotically with his swarm host all in. Or that boink staked push at Hsc. Innovation is a pretty standard player though.
Not saying serral is bad in these regards. He’s phenomenal. Just saying that his mechanics are his greatest strength. ? That’s bullshit at best. Serral at BlizzCon 2018 wasn’t outplaying Rogue mechanically... they were both around the same level. He was just playing « better » for the long run, with better small decisions, probably because he had a better plan in his head than Rogue / figured out better how the game should go. His mechanics are good but nothing out of the ordinary, it’s mostly good decisions after good decisions / good knowledge and reactions. The only bullshit i see is saying a mechanical juggernaut’s mechanics are “nothing out of the ordinary” Rogue has better mechanics than maru too btw. Rogue was eclipsed by serral, mechanically , though Rogue with better mechanics than Maru wtf lol? As pointed out earlier, Terran peaks with mechanical skill, so the best mechanical Terran will have better « mechanics » because it’s the only race that makes mechanics shine the brightest, kinda like Fox in smash melee. So we can’t really know if Rogue/Serral would have as good micro as Terran as micro as Maru, but I highly doubt it. He kind of always had the good micro but only managed to take his perfect mechanics to their full potential in 2018+
Zerg is the mechanics race, not Terran lol
Terran is the least mechanically demanding race
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On August 23 2019 07:57 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2019 07:49 Poopi wrote:On August 23 2019 07:38 BerserkSword wrote:On August 23 2019 07:31 Poopi wrote:On August 23 2019 06:57 BerserkSword wrote:
I never thought of serral’s greatest strength as his decision making (don’t get me wrong it’s among the best)
Serral is a mechanical juggernaut. Mechanics are his greatest strength. He wins based on constant macro and efficient engages. This is why he never gets swept like maru does. His peerless mechanics make sure it never happens.
At the same time you can see how decision making /dynamic play are not his greatest strengths when someone manages to topple him. When the games got crazy vs soo at iem he fell (Zerg players like solar said soo has a weird style that they hate playing). Reynor who can play pretty chaotically has beaten serral. Serral was not prepared for a carrier runby from stats - he was playing robotically with his swarm host all in. Or that boink staked push at Hsc. Innovation is a pretty standard player though.
Not saying serral is bad in these regards. He’s phenomenal. Just saying that his mechanics are his greatest strength. ? That’s bullshit at best. Serral at BlizzCon 2018 wasn’t outplaying Rogue mechanically... they were both around the same level. He was just playing « better » for the long run, with better small decisions, probably because he had a better plan in his head than Rogue / figured out better how the game should go. His mechanics are good but nothing out of the ordinary, it’s mostly good decisions after good decisions / good knowledge and reactions. The only bullshit i see is saying a mechanical juggernaut’s mechanics are “nothing out of the ordinary” Rogue has better mechanics than maru too btw. Rogue was eclipsed by serral, mechanically , though Rogue with better mechanics than Maru wtf lol? As pointed out earlier, Terran peaks with mechanical skill, so the best mechanical Terran will have better « mechanics » because it’s the only race that makes mechanics shine the brightest, kinda like Fox in smash melee. So we can’t really know if Rogue/Serral would have as good micro as Terran as micro as Maru, but I highly doubt it. He kind of always had the good micro but only managed to take his perfect mechanics to their full potential in 2018+ Zerg is the mechanics race, not Terran lol Terran is the least mechanically demanding race
You serious bruh?
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On August 23 2019 07:38 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2019 07:31 Poopi wrote:On August 23 2019 06:57 BerserkSword wrote:
I never thought of serral’s greatest strength as his decision making (don’t get me wrong it’s among the best)
Serral is a mechanical juggernaut. Mechanics are his greatest strength. He wins based on constant macro and efficient engages. This is why he never gets swept like maru does. His peerless mechanics make sure it never happens.
At the same time you can see how decision making /dynamic play are not his greatest strengths when someone manages to topple him. When the games got crazy vs soo at iem he fell (Zerg players like solar said soo has a weird style that they hate playing). Reynor who can play pretty chaotically has beaten serral. Serral was not prepared for a carrier runby from stats - he was playing robotically with his swarm host all in. Or that boink staked push at Hsc. Innovation is a pretty standard player though.
Not saying serral is bad in these regards. He’s phenomenal. Just saying that his mechanics are his greatest strength. ? That’s bullshit at best. Serral at BlizzCon 2018 wasn’t outplaying Rogue mechanically... they were both around the same level. He was just playing « better » for the long run, with better small decisions, probably because he had a better plan in his head than Rogue / figured out better how the game should go. His mechanics are good but nothing out of the ordinary, it’s mostly good decisions after good decisions / good knowledge and reactions. Rogue has better mechanics than maru too btw. Rogue was eclipsed by serral, mechanically , though
bruh what?
On topic though, Maru and Serral have the best mechanics in sc2. I don't think anyone comes close. soO, INnoVation, herO, ByuN etc have areas of the same they excel at but no one is the complete package like Maru and Serral. They are the best at almost everything in their races (best macro, micro, multitasking, reactions etc) in almost all areas of the game.
Who's better between them? Hard to tell. But I'm inclined to say Maru because he's straight up transcended terran through nothing more than those mechanics. Serral does the same plays as every other zerg just much faster, and also has near perfect decision making.
I've never seen Serral win with bad units or in a trash meta purely from outmicro'ing and multitasking opponents. Maru plays strategically behind all the time but wins because he plays twice as good as opponents.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On August 25 2019 04:50 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2019 07:38 BerserkSword wrote:On August 23 2019 07:31 Poopi wrote:On August 23 2019 06:57 BerserkSword wrote:
I never thought of serral’s greatest strength as his decision making (don’t get me wrong it’s among the best)
Serral is a mechanical juggernaut. Mechanics are his greatest strength. He wins based on constant macro and efficient engages. This is why he never gets swept like maru does. His peerless mechanics make sure it never happens.
At the same time you can see how decision making /dynamic play are not his greatest strengths when someone manages to topple him. When the games got crazy vs soo at iem he fell (Zerg players like solar said soo has a weird style that they hate playing). Reynor who can play pretty chaotically has beaten serral. Serral was not prepared for a carrier runby from stats - he was playing robotically with his swarm host all in. Or that boink staked push at Hsc. Innovation is a pretty standard player though.
Not saying serral is bad in these regards. He’s phenomenal. Just saying that his mechanics are his greatest strength. ? That’s bullshit at best. Serral at BlizzCon 2018 wasn’t outplaying Rogue mechanically... they were both around the same level. He was just playing « better » for the long run, with better small decisions, probably because he had a better plan in his head than Rogue / figured out better how the game should go. His mechanics are good but nothing out of the ordinary, it’s mostly good decisions after good decisions / good knowledge and reactions. Rogue has better mechanics than maru too btw. Rogue was eclipsed by serral, mechanically , though bruh what? On topic though, Maru and Serral have the best mechanics in sc2. I don't think anyone comes close. soO, INnoVation, herO, ByuN etc have areas of the same they excel at but no one is the complete package like Maru and Serral. They are the best at almost everything in their races (best macro, micro, multitasking, reactions etc) in almost all areas of the game. Who's better between them? Hard to tell. But I'm inclined to say Maru because he's straight up transcended terran through nothing more than those mechanics. Serral does the same plays as every other zerg just much faster, and also has near perfect decision making. I've never seen Serral win with bad units or in a trash meta purely from outmicro'ing and multitasking opponents. Maru plays strategically behind all the time but wins because he plays twice as good as opponents.
It’s probably Maru, but I suppose it really should be too. More than just about anyone Maru tries to get wins on mechanically outdoing his opponents
Even a guy like Serral it feels his mechanics are a tool in playing a more conventional rounded game, Maru it feels like they are his gameplan sometimes.
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Serral's most outstanding skill is his perfect army positioning, always keeping tabs on his enemies builds and army movement as well as his incredible macro while doing the above.
When someone manages to suprise him, he is in trouble
Purely mechanical he is top 10 for sure. The best? Not sure
Some of his engagements seem sloppy, but it doesn't matter mostly cause while this fight goes on he has built 3 more hatcheries and has another maxed army in the gates
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EPT
