EPTThey could add WCS Challenger Korea to the WCS Circuit like how I said before. Then they could split the GSL into GSL Korea and GSL International. GSL international would be an online qualifier like WCS Challenger. Then for the playoffs they take the top 8 from both and have them go against eachother in a weekend style tournament. That way non-Koreans wouldn't have to move to Korea to participate. This would help to support SC2 outside Korea while still ensuring the viewers get to see top notch nail biting starcraft at each tournament.
[WCS] Montreal 2017 - Championship Sunday - Page 60
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Clevername02
15 Posts
They could add WCS Challenger Korea to the WCS Circuit like how I said before. Then they could split the GSL into GSL Korea and GSL International. GSL international would be an online qualifier like WCS Challenger. Then for the playoffs they take the top 8 from both and have them go against eachother in a weekend style tournament. That way non-Koreans wouldn't have to move to Korea to participate. This would help to support SC2 outside Korea while still ensuring the viewers get to see top notch nail biting starcraft at each tournament. | ||
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Vanillatoss
76 Posts
Its not that zerg players are worse or playing on the lower lvl than Neeb... The reason why there is only 1 Neeb winning almost everything is that there is something wrong with the pvz matchup AND that there arent any foreign protosses playing on Neebs level. I just cant wait for AlphaGo to prove that 2 races playing on the same lvl with exactly the same skill cap, apm or what have you dont have 50/50 win rates... | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17159 Posts
nah. total domination is just boring and its a fact of life in non-fixed competition. a lot of the non-neeb games were very entertaining. a lot of the NBA playoff games not involving Golden State were also entertaining this year. | ||
Poopi
France12906 Posts
Protoss is in a very good spot these days so he will have a shot at Blizzcon, even against top KR competition. Also, for people whining about his aligulac ranking, he actually trashes most of the KR players he faces in online competitions. He can do it offline too, Nerchio seems right this time! | ||
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QzYSc2
Netherlands281 Posts
On September 11 2017 13:07 Clevername02 wrote: While you guys keep flaming eachother I just got another idea of how they could modify the current system. They could add WCS Challenger Korea to the WCS Circuit like how I said before. Then they could split the GSL into GSL Korea and GSL International. GSL international would be an online qualifier like WCS Challenger. Then for the playoffs they take the top 8 from both and have them go against eachother in a weekend style tournament. That way non-Koreans wouldn't have to move to Korea to participate. This would help to support SC2 outside Korea while still ensuring the viewers get to see top notch nail biting starcraft at each tournament. or you could stop specifically region locking no other but korea for the same result. but foreigners need their welfare money right? | ||
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Vanillatoss
76 Posts
On September 11 2017 19:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote: the Golden State Warriors title win was a 16-1 bore-fest. Canada winning in men's ice hockey in the Olympics was a snooze-fest with them giving up 3 goals the whole tournament. does this mean basketball and hockey totally suck balls and everything about those 2 sports must change now? nah. total domination is just boring and its a fact of life in non-fixed competition. a lot of the non-neeb games were very entertaining. a lot of the NBA playoff games not involving Golden State were also entertaining this year. Your point is valid for mirror matchups when one guy stomps other.. The case with Neeb is that he stomps all zergs. And yes, he is very good, he practices a lot, and he doesnt make almost any mistakes, his skill lvl is very high but cant you say the same things about other round of 8 players? What distinguishes Neeb from other is that he exploits Protoss to the max AND at the same time abuses weakneses of other races (aka something wrong with pvz matchup). Protoss in Neebs hands looks unbeatable.. especially agaist zerg. How many Zergs tried it? We had Snute, Scarlet, True, Nerchio, Elazer, Serral, TLO, SortOf.. 37-13 in maps.. He lost only to Snute in Bo3 group stage once. All of the Zergs more or less know how to deal with drogo, showtime ONLY BECAUSE they dont play at Neeb's lvl. | ||
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Sakat
Croatia1599 Posts
On September 11 2017 20:33 Vanillatoss wrote: Your point is valid for mirror matchups when one guy stomps other.. The case with Neeb is that he stomps all zergs. And yes, he is very good, he practices a lot, and he doesnt make almost any mistakes, his skill lvl is very high but cant you say the same things about other round of 8 players? What distinguishes Neeb from other is that he exploits Protoss to the max AND at the same time abuses weakneses of other races (aka something wrong with pvz matchup). Protoss in Neebs hands looks unbeatable.. especially agaist zerg. How many Zergs tried it? We had Snute, Scarlet, True, Nerchio, Elazer, Serral, TLO, SortOf.. 37-13 in maps.. He lost only to Snute in Bo3 group stage once. All of the Zergs more or less know how to deal with drogo, showtime ONLY BECAUSE they dont play at Neeb's lvl. Most Zerg players can play even with most Protoss players... Neeb is much better then other Protoss players... Most Zergs can't keep up with Neeb... Therefore something is wrong with the match-up... I'd like to see Neeb face Dark, soO or Rogue and see how that plays out | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17159 Posts
On September 11 2017 20:33 Vanillatoss wrote: Your point is valid for mirror matchups when one guy stomps other.. The case with Neeb is that he stomps all zergs. And yes, he is very good, he practices a lot, and he doesnt make almost any mistakes, his skill lvl is very high but cant you say the same things about other round of 8 players? What distinguishes Neeb from other is that he exploits Protoss to the max AND at the same time abuses weakneses of other races (aka something wrong with pvz matchup). Protoss in Neebs hands looks unbeatable.. especially agaist zerg. How many Zergs tried it? We had Snute, Scarlet, True, Nerchio, Elazer, Serral, TLO, SortOf.. 37-13 in maps.. He lost only to Snute in Bo3 group stage once. All of the Zergs more or less know how to deal with drogo, showtime ONLY BECAUSE they dont play at Neeb's lvl. i play 40% Terran and 60% random. do u know what my best race is? its Zerg. pretty fucked eh? the level i play on the game is just not balanced. but its ok with me. i'm fairly close in standing with all 3 races. the game is "balanced enough" for me and my entertainment needs. at any where below top level the game won't be balanced and WCS is not the top level... GSL is. Blizzard can not balance the game around WCS.. they must balance the game around the GSL and SSL and then just hope the game is "balanced enough" at all other levels of play. i realize the impossible task Blizzard has on their hands and they've balanced the December-2016-PostBlizzcon LotV game the past 10 months in an admirable fashion. | ||
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VHbb
689 Posts
It may be just the disparity between him and the other semifinalist / finalist, but it seems he is on an other level (then from now to Blizzcon everything could happen eheh). The final matches were very one sided, which from a perspective it is less interesting, but it was such a clean play from Neeb that it was a pleasure to watch. Honestly at some point it felt like this tournament was some sort of "qualification stage" to see who is the best foreigner to go up against the koreans, and it feels like we have one foreigner champion, but nobody else came close - so maybe this created less hype / tension for this specific final, but much more hype for Blizzcon (clearly this is just my personal feeling) | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 11 2017 20:25 Poopi wrote: So Neeb really is the best protoss in the world right now. Protoss is in a very good spot these days so he will have a shot at Blizzcon, even against top KR competition. Also, for people whining about his aligulac ranking, he actually trashes most of the KR players he faces in online competitions. He can do it offline too, Nerchio seems right this time! This is funny becuase it's actually correct, but only if you count TRUE as a korean. Neeb is currently 80-85 (48%) against koreans this year (excluding TRUE). If you include TRUE, his winrate goes up to 53% Offline he's 10-35 (28%) against korean opponents | ||
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Poopi
France12906 Posts
On September 11 2017 23:12 Fango wrote: This is funny becuase it's actually correct, but only if you count TRUE as a korean. Neeb is currently 80-85 (48%) against koreans this year (excluding TRUE). If you include TRUE, his winrate goes up to 53% Offline he's 10-35 (28%) against korean opponents ? I'm talking about recent results, because you know, patches, form and stuff. http://aligulac.com/players/4495-Neeb/results/ He goes toe to toe with top KR terrans, his PvZ seems monstruous against A LOT of different foreigner zergs (even some that train in KR afaik?) and strategically, foreigner zergs aren't behind KR zergs (KR players in LotV are often a bit better mechanically but strategically there is almost no difference between foreigner and KR players), so even tho we didn't get to see him against top KR zergs (because they don't seem to play in small online cups contrary to top terrans), he SHOULD do better than at last year Blizzcon if he keeps his momentum. I don't know about his PvP but he was ahead of everyone last year when he won Kespa cup so I wouldn't worry too much. Even tho these WCS events were sad from a terran point of view, seeing Neeb trashing the foreign scene as much as Stephano in his prime, hypes me A LOT for Blizzcon  . | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 11 2017 23:32 Poopi wrote: ? I'm talking about recent results, because you know, patches, form and stuff. http://aligulac.com/players/4495-Neeb/results/ He goes toe to toe with top KR terrans, his PvZ seems monstruous against A LOT of different foreigner zergs (even some that train in KR afaik?) and strategically, foreigner zergs aren't behind KR zergs (KR players in LotV are often a bit better mechanically but strategically there is almost no difference between foreigner and KR players), so even tho we didn't get to see him against top KR zergs (because they don't seem to play in small online cups contrary to top terrans), he SHOULD do better than at last year Blizzcon if he keeps his momentum. I don't know about his PvP but he was ahead of everyone last year when he won Kespa cup so I wouldn't worry too much. Even tho these WCS events were sad from a terran point of view, seeing Neeb trashing the foreign scene as much as Stephano in his prime, hypes me A LOT for Blizzcon .I'm talking about recent results as well. 2017 only. He's 10-25 against koreans offline (I dont count true) http://aligulac.com/players/4495/results/?after=2017-01-01&before=&event=&race=ptzr&country=KR&bestof=all&offline=offline&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op= If you include online then he has a 48% winrate. Not exactly dominating Where is he going toe to toe with top korean terrans? He's never beaten Inno or TY. And has a losing record against ByuN and Gumi. He's beaten aLive a couple times in online events recently but that's about it, and aLive is slumping right now. He can crush other foreigners all he wants but without results against top 8 level koreans it feels like people are setting themselves up for disappointment at blizzcon. Snute and Scarlett are good players but they aren't Dark or soO. majOr is an amazing player but he's not Inno or TY. And PvP is impossible to judge because Neeb has no protoss competition in foreignerland. Losing 4-2 to Hurricane isn't exactly promising either | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On September 12 2017 00:29 Fango wrote: I'm talking about recent results as well. 2017 only. He's 10-25 against koreans offline (I dont count true) http://aligulac.com/players/4495/results/?after=2017-01-01&before=&event=&race=ptzr&country=KR&bestof=all&offline=offline&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op= If you include online then he has a 48% winrate. Not exactly dominating Where is he going toe to toe with top korean terrans? He's never beaten Inno or TY. And has a losing record against ByuN and Gumi. He's beaten aLive a couple times in online events recently but that's about it, and aLive is slumping right now. He can crush other foreigners all he wants but without results against top 8 level koreans it feels like people are setting themselves up for disappointment at blizzcon. Snute and Scarlett are good players but they aren't Dark or soO. majOr is an amazing player but he's not Inno or TY. And PvP is impossible to judge because Neeb has no protoss competition in foreignerland. Losing 4-2 to Hurricane isn't exactly promising either While Neeb is a fantastic player and the best foreigner by far going into Blizzcon, the Neeb fanboys will overhype him regardless of whatever reality actually exists. Just like last year, until Dark put an abrupt end to the hype. I fully expect the exact same thing to happen this year. Neeb might be able to make a deep run at Blizzcon but sooner or later a top Korean will step in to set things straight. | ||
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buffzerg33
96 Posts
Next story is regions, Europe dont have Terrans since Jinro? Last good P was Naniwa ages ago. Its a region of Zergs, so thats why every cup placed in EU will be Zerg heavy. Another thing is Neeb, he is top dog atm if we talk about foreigners, but......when Koreans are coming its a diffrent story. He look very good agains low tier players like EU/NA but KR is another world. I wish him all the best at Blizzcon, he can stop maybe 1 or 2 Koreans in his best day. Thats about it, SC2 < KR since 1998. | ||
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Devolved
United States2753 Posts
On September 12 2017 03:21 buffzerg33 wrote: I think its all about who is playing agains who. Dark in SSL already raped two top tier Protosses and he is coming for another one. He just got this match figured out, plus he is a top dog atm, way way better then EU zergs. Next story is regions, Europe dont have Terrans since Jinro? Last good P was Naniwa ages ago. Its a region of Zergs, so thats why every cup placed in EU will be Zerg heavy. Another thing is Neeb, he is top dog atm if we talk about foreigners, but......when Koreans are coming its a diffrent story. He look very good agains low tier players like EU/NA but KR is another world. I wish him all the best at Blizzcon, he can stop maybe 1 or 2 Koreans in his best day. Thats about it, SC2 < KR since 1998. Apparently you're memory is failing you. Less than a year ago he beat 5 Koreans on his way to victory in the KeSpa Cup, including many top level Koreans, such as Zest, Rogue and Stats. Granted, his PvP was and probably still is his best matchup, but his other matchups have improved since then. If he gets a favorable bracket, he is as likely to win as any Korean who also gets a favorable bracket, with the exception of Innovation. It'd be nice if someone could beat him before the round where he would face Neeb. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On September 12 2017 10:52 Devolved wrote: Apparently you're memory is failing you. Less than a year ago he beat 5 Koreans on his way to victory in the KeSpa Cup, including many top level Koreans, such as Zest, Rogue and Stats. Granted, his PvP was and probably still is his best matchup, but his other matchups have improved since then. If he gets a favorable bracket, he is as likely to win as any Korean who also gets a favorable bracket, with the exception of Innovation. It'd be nice if someone could beat him before the round where he would face Neeb. Can you give me such a "favorable" bracket pls? Neeb is really good but especially in a bo5 setting (playoffs, if he even gets there) i would probably favor every single korean who is at blizzcon over him. Some of them heavily, others just a tiny bit but the overal point remains. Neeb is likely the underdog against any korean at blizzcon. | ||
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Poopi
France12906 Posts
On September 12 2017 00:29 Fango wrote: I'm talking about recent results as well. 2017 only. He's 10-25 against koreans offline (I dont count true) http://aligulac.com/players/4495/results/?after=2017-01-01&before=&event=&race=ptzr&country=KR&bestof=all&offline=offline&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op= If you include online then he has a 48% winrate. Not exactly dominating Where is he going toe to toe with top korean terrans? He's never beaten Inno or TY. And has a losing record against ByuN and Gumi. He's beaten aLive a couple times in online events recently but that's about it, and aLive is slumping right now. He can crush other foreigners all he wants but without results against top 8 level koreans it feels like people are setting themselves up for disappointment at blizzcon. Snute and Scarlett are good players but they aren't Dark or soO. majOr is an amazing player but he's not Inno or TY. And PvP is impossible to judge because Neeb has no protoss competition in foreignerland. Losing 4-2 to Hurricane isn't exactly promising either Stats had rough losses recently, he even lost to Bly, does that mean we should not hype him up for Blizzcon either because he might not win it? :o Neeb has beaten ByuN and Gumiho already, he might not have a winning record, but being able to trade games against such fantastic players is a feat in itself. He only lost 2-3 to TY, but he'll gain momentum for Blizzcon. | ||
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VHbb
689 Posts
I prefer to arrive at Blizzcon with some expectation and hype towards Neeb, than with the feeling that it will be the usual korean dominance Maybe I set myself up for disappointment, but it's worth the risk in case Neeb does well | ||
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