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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On October 30 2016 05:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: Some OW showmatches (basically) with 50k viewers while sc2 gets like what? 30k? It's the group stage for overwatch I think, same as sc2. Overwatch is also more popualr in NA right now and is on console. I'd expect this to happen | ||
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Musicus
Germany23579 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On October 30 2016 05:03 Clonester wrote: 20 Million sold copies, playable on consoles... 50k viewers is pretty low for what I expect for OW. But on the other hand, like heroes or Hearthstone, might be fun to play (not for me) but hard to enjoy as an esport. Montecristo + Doa as casters as well. Somewhat similar to when Totalbisscuit casts Sc2, I think their presense brings in extra viewers. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23579 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On October 30 2016 05:01 Hider wrote: Yes when people practice more they become better. But the claim is not just that the improvement has slowed down. The claim is that the players have become worse. So how do the same players become worse. Explain that to me. It's not about "more practice" either, you miss the point. He says people now aren't necessarily MORE skilled, that doesn't mean that they are less skilled. Also if we believe that the koreans are less skilled now the possible explanation would be that they indeed don't practice as much anymore + the practice is worse because the scene as a whole is less competitive for multiple reasons (retirements of players, no new players, less money in the scene, knowing that next year there is no PL anymore => less motivation, etc) Personally i am not sure what to think atm, while i think that foreigners absolutely got better because of region locking (motivation) i also can definitely see that the korean scene had a lot of problems this year and the end of proleague is just the tip of the iceberg. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
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KtJ
United States3514 Posts
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Nocci
Germany108 Posts
Usually I manage to catch stuff live or am not interested afterwards, but I'd really like to watch Showtime vs Byun. | ||
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Elentos
55586 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
He says people now aren't necessarily MORE skilled, that doesn't mean that they are less skilled. What does it mean then? If they are not better, then they are either exactly as skilled or worse. now the possible explanation would be that they indeed don't practice as much anymore So they didn't practice throughout 2016 despite PL being played along with SSL and GSL and Kespa cup? Even just implying that this might be true, is imo pretty ridiculous. Obviously it is clear that the improvement rate has slowed down a lot, but let's not go further than that. | ||
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KtJ
United States3514 Posts
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Elentos
55586 Posts
On October 30 2016 05:08 Nocci wrote: So where/when can I find the VODs? Usually I manage to catch stuff live or am not interested afterwards, but I'd really like to watch Showtime vs Byun. https://www.twitch.tv/starcraft/v/97804146 Around 3:26:50 the first game of Showtime vs ByuN starts On October 30 2016 05:10 KtJ wrote: Anything worth watching? I'd say game wise we peaked in the first game of the day. But Elazer vs TY was hilarious. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On October 30 2016 05:10 KtJ wrote: Anything worth watching? Zest vs Neeb game 3 was great. TY vs Elazer was also very close series. Many back and forth games | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On October 30 2016 05:07 Hider wrote: That said, I had hoped for around 40K viewers for Sc2. And 100K+ at the finals. The problem with sc2 is that nobody ever really tried to build the players as what i call "star players". Who is at fault? Everybody tbh, the players, the teams, tournaments, blizzard. I bet you saw the videos we got for this blizzcon? If we had stuff like that from the beginning on a regular basis people would have been more interested in all kinds of players (not that that would be enough, but you get the point) | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
Personally i am not sure what to think atm, while i think that foreigners absolutely got better because of region locking (motivation) i also can definitely see that the korean scene had a lot of problems this year and the end of proleague is just the tip of the iceberg. My theory consist of the following steps: 1. Everyone improves all the time. But some players/regions improve at a faster rate than others. 2. In regions that improves the fastest, you usually see "new talent" taking over as they improve faster than the old ones. However, that definitely imply the old guys don't improve. 3. the foreign scene had more "new players" than Korea. Whereas Korea = Only the old guys. I can't think of a single Korean that I consider a top 10 korean that wasn't a top 20 player 2 years ago. | ||
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Nocci
Germany108 Posts
On October 30 2016 05:10 Elentos wrote: https://www.twitch.tv/starcraft/v/97804146 Around 3:26:50 the first game of Showtime vs ByuN starts I'd say game wise we peaked in the first game of the day. But Elazer vs TY was hilarious. Thanks a bunch! | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16084 Posts
On October 30 2016 05:11 Fango wrote: TY vs Elazer was also very close series. Many back and forth games but only watch it if you have a lot of time since the games lasted really long. but it's certainly worth it to watch them. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On October 30 2016 05:09 Hider wrote: What does it mean then? If they are not better, then they are either exactly as skilled or worse. So they didn't practice throughout 2016 despite PL being played along with SSL and GSL and Kespa cup? Even just implying that this might be true, is imo pretty ridiculous. Obviously it is clear that the improvement rate has slowed down a lot, but let's not go further than that. It means that just because the game is older it doesn't mean that people get better mechanically all the time in a noticeable way. So yes either around just as skilled or worse are actual possibilites while the common believe is that it's always more skilled. What about all the other things i mentioned? If you only quote that it looks a bit ridiculous, but if you look at the big picture it actually becomes more reasonable  | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On October 30 2016 05:13 Hider wrote: My theory consist of the following steps: 1. Everyone improves all the time. But some players/regions improve at a faster rate than others. 2. In regions that improves the fastest, you usually see "new talent" taking over as they improve faster than the old ones. However, that definitely imply the old guys don't improve. 3. the foreign scene had more "new players" than Korea. Whereas Korea = Only the old guys. I can't think of a single Korean that I consider a top 10 korean that wasn't a top 20 player 2 years ago. I certainly wouldn't put Byun in the top 20 2 years ago. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17682 Posts
On October 30 2016 05:07 The_Red_Viper wrote: It's not about "more practice" either, you miss the point. He says people now aren't necessarily MORE skilled, that doesn't mean that they are less skilled. Also if we believe that the koreans are less skilled now the possible explanation would be that they indeed don't practice as much anymore + the practice is worse because the scene as a whole is less competitive for multiple reasons (retirements of players, no new players, less money in the scene, knowing that next year there is no PL anymore => less motivation, etc) Personally i am not sure what to think atm, while i think that foreigners absolutely got better because of region locking (motivation) i also can definitely see that the korean scene had a lot of problems this year and the end of proleague is just the tip of the iceberg. we in here talkin' 'bout practice? not a game? not a game.. not the game i die for.. we in here talkin' 'bout practice man.. wada we doin' here man? if u lower over all prize money to $0 in a country and lower prize money world wide then skill will eventually decline. if u lower prize money by 25% ... who knows. | ||
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