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On August 14 2016 07:42 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
OH shit. Soularion getting called out for his power rank.
wait what?! my stream lagged out, I missed it!
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On August 14 2016 07:41 beentheredonethat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 07:40 Ej_ wrote:On August 14 2016 07:38 beentheredonethat wrote:
But what I originally wanted to say is that I think that pretty much any Korean is going to win over foreigners and be the favourite in the current system. They are peak players. Very few highly skilled players cannot create a good environment for foreigners to improve . That's also wrong. Koreans outside Korea are nothing more than people who chase the easier competition. Yes. And one peak player among one hundred weaker players will win most of the time, but the 100 other players will not be able to improve. If there would be like 25 koreans on 100 foreigners, foreigners would improve in the long run.
many european pros commented how forggs ladder presence in eu was good for the scene
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United States97277 Posts
Soularion's ego getting CHECKED
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On August 14 2016 07:43 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 07:40 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 14 2016 07:35 Penev wrote:On August 14 2016 07:34 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 14 2016 07:32 Penev wrote:On August 14 2016 07:31 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 14 2016 07:30 beentheredonethat wrote:
That's the weak point of banning the highest skilled chunk of players. If one decides to actually live in the place and follow the rules, he'll easily top the competition. Most foreigners that go to Korea come out looking worse tbf. At first And later too. On August 14 2016 07:33 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:31 Ej_ wrote:On August 14 2016 07:30 beentheredonethat wrote:
That's the weak point of banning the highest skilled chunk of players. If one decides to actually live in the place and follow the rules, he'll easily top the competition. like that time TRUE got dunked on during HSC There's always an exception to the rule. But I'm fairly sure you'll agree with me that in whatever foreign tournament TRUE decides to play, he'll be a favourite to win. Not really. He has a chance, but he isn't a top Korean. No not later too, look at Harstem for instance He did win a few tournaments, but still drops maps all over the place against weak opponents. I don't think his form is any better than before he went to Korea. There are some players that have improved like HuK or Scarlett, but many more who came out worse than before like Stephano or Thorzain. Come to think of it, which players other than Jinro, Huk and Naniwa actually became top players after going to Korea?
Idra
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On August 14 2016 07:42 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 07:40 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:39 Nebuchad wrote:On August 14 2016 07:37 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:36 ArtyK wrote:On August 14 2016 07:35 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:34 ArtyK wrote:On August 14 2016 07:33 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:31 Ej_ wrote:On August 14 2016 07:30 beentheredonethat wrote:
That's the weak point of banning the highest skilled chunk of players. If one decides to actually live in the place and follow the rules, he'll easily top the competition. like that time TRUE got dunked on during HSC There's always an exception to the rule. But I'm fairly sure you'll agree with me that in whatever foreign tournament TRUE decides to play, he'll be a favourite to win. id argue nerchio neeb or one of the terrans over true I'd rate TRUE higher than any foreign pro. I'm ready to bet 50 bucks that TRUE won't lose to any pro in a Bo21 series. i mean bo21 is unlikely to happen so lets stay on bo5 - bo7s shall we :D TRUE definetly has strong zvp and zvz but idk his zvt is shaky ever since he came to us The idea behind the bo21 is that a single bo5 or a single bo7 does not indicate the better player. Only numerous games over a period of time determine that. The idea behind the bo21 is that preparing for a series is cheating, and that your wins aren't as legitimate as doing a ladder macro build 21 times. Nah, you're missing my point. Take the bo21 as a three times bo7. Is it more clear now? It's still wrong. The notion that a longer series allows the better player to win implies that having a series (or a game) well prepared is not as impressive a skill as having a build that you can repeat consistently.
Okay, let's say that two players meet over the course of one year in five bo3, three bo7, and three bo5. I'd easily say that the guy who comes out as the overall winner in that period of time is the better player.
My bo21 example should've expressed that but I guess I should have made my point more clear. (Although I still think that one bo21+ series determines the better player, too)
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On August 14 2016 07:43 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 07:40 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 14 2016 07:35 Penev wrote:On August 14 2016 07:34 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 14 2016 07:32 Penev wrote:On August 14 2016 07:31 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 14 2016 07:30 beentheredonethat wrote:
That's the weak point of banning the highest skilled chunk of players. If one decides to actually live in the place and follow the rules, he'll easily top the competition. Most foreigners that go to Korea come out looking worse tbf. At first And later too. On August 14 2016 07:33 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:31 Ej_ wrote:On August 14 2016 07:30 beentheredonethat wrote:
That's the weak point of banning the highest skilled chunk of players. If one decides to actually live in the place and follow the rules, he'll easily top the competition. like that time TRUE got dunked on during HSC There's always an exception to the rule. But I'm fairly sure you'll agree with me that in whatever foreign tournament TRUE decides to play, he'll be a favourite to win. Not really. He has a chance, but he isn't a top Korean. No not later too, look at Harstem for instance He did win a few tournaments, but still drops maps all over the place against weak opponents. I don't think his form is any better than before he went to Korea. There are some players that have improved like HuK or Scarlett, but many more who came out worse than before like Stephano or Thorzain. Come to think of it, which players other than Jinro, Huk and Naniwa actually became top players after going to Korea?
Scarlett?
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On August 14 2016 07:44 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 07:42 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
OH shit. Soularion getting called out for his power rank. wait what?! my stream lagged out, I missed it!
Rotterdam told him that TL placed him 13th on the power rank, and TRUE said that "TL didn't know anything about Starcraft".
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On August 14 2016 07:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 07:44 Cricketer12 wrote:On August 14 2016 07:42 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
OH shit. Soularion getting called out for his power rank. wait what?! my stream lagged out, I missed it! Rotterdam told him that TL placed him 13th on the power rank, and TRUE said that "TL didn't know anything about Starcraft".
At least Rotti reads TL!
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On August 14 2016 07:44 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 07:41 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:40 Ej_ wrote:On August 14 2016 07:38 beentheredonethat wrote:
But what I originally wanted to say is that I think that pretty much any Korean is going to win over foreigners and be the favourite in the current system. They are peak players. Very few highly skilled players cannot create a good environment for foreigners to improve . That's also wrong. Koreans outside Korea are nothing more than people who chase the easier competition. Yes. And one peak player among one hundred weaker players will win most of the time, but the 100 other players will not be able to improve. If there would be like 25 koreans on 100 foreigners, foreigners would improve in the long run. many european pros commented how forggs ladder presence in eu was good for the scene
Yes! I'm not saying it's bad. I'm saying we need MORE koreans, not just a handful, on EU ladder. Blizzard should enable KR pros to move to EU instead of banning them and allowing only the ones that live at the place.
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On August 14 2016 07:38 ArtyK wrote:
DROGO NEXT, pls dont tilt :'(
i have a bad news for you
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United States97277 Posts
Pretty sure Soularion didn't know TRUE won Cheesadelphia otherwise he would have had him top 5
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On August 14 2016 07:44 beentheredonethat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 07:42 Nebuchad wrote:On August 14 2016 07:40 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:39 Nebuchad wrote:On August 14 2016 07:37 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:36 ArtyK wrote:On August 14 2016 07:35 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:34 ArtyK wrote:On August 14 2016 07:33 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:31 Ej_ wrote:
[quote]
like that time TRUE got dunked on during HSC There's always an exception to the rule. But I'm fairly sure you'll agree with me that in whatever foreign tournament TRUE decides to play, he'll be a favourite to win. id argue nerchio neeb or one of the terrans over true I'd rate TRUE higher than any foreign pro. I'm ready to bet 50 bucks that TRUE won't lose to any pro in a Bo21 series. i mean bo21 is unlikely to happen so lets stay on bo5 - bo7s shall we :D TRUE definetly has strong zvp and zvz but idk his zvt is shaky ever since he came to us The idea behind the bo21 is that a single bo5 or a single bo7 does not indicate the better player. Only numerous games over a period of time determine that. The idea behind the bo21 is that preparing for a series is cheating, and that your wins aren't as legitimate as doing a ladder macro build 21 times. Nah, you're missing my point. Take the bo21 as a three times bo7. Is it more clear now? It's still wrong. The notion that a longer series allows the better player to win implies that having a series (or a game) well prepared is not as impressive a skill as having a build that you can repeat consistently. Okay, let's say that two players meet over the course of one year in five bo3, three bo7, and three bo5. I'd easily say that the guy who comes out as the overall winner in that period of time is the better player. My bo21 example should've expressed that but I guess I should have made my point more clear. (Although I still think that one bo21+ series determines the better player, too)
Neeb's played TRUE in 2 bo5 and 2 bo3 over the last year and won all of them. Also head to head is a shitty way of determining who the better player is.
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On August 14 2016 07:42 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 07:40 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:39 Nebuchad wrote:On August 14 2016 07:37 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:36 ArtyK wrote:On August 14 2016 07:35 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:34 ArtyK wrote:On August 14 2016 07:33 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:31 Ej_ wrote:On August 14 2016 07:30 beentheredonethat wrote:
That's the weak point of banning the highest skilled chunk of players. If one decides to actually live in the place and follow the rules, he'll easily top the competition. like that time TRUE got dunked on during HSC There's always an exception to the rule. But I'm fairly sure you'll agree with me that in whatever foreign tournament TRUE decides to play, he'll be a favourite to win. id argue nerchio neeb or one of the terrans over true I'd rate TRUE higher than any foreign pro. I'm ready to bet 50 bucks that TRUE won't lose to any pro in a Bo21 series. i mean bo21 is unlikely to happen so lets stay on bo5 - bo7s shall we :D TRUE definetly has strong zvp and zvz but idk his zvt is shaky ever since he came to us The idea behind the bo21 is that a single bo5 or a single bo7 does not indicate the better player. Only numerous games over a period of time determine that. The idea behind the bo21 is that preparing for a series is cheating, and that your wins aren't as legitimate as doing a ladder macro build 21 times. Nah, you're missing my point. Take the bo21 as a three times bo7. Is it more clear now? It's still wrong. The notion that a longer series allows the better player to win implies that having a series (or a game) well prepared is not as impressive a skill as having a build that you can repeat consistently.
Which is complete bullshit since one of the most impressive things to ever happen in the History of Starcraft (1 and 2 ) was Mvps last big GSL run
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On August 14 2016 07:45 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 07:44 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:42 Nebuchad wrote:On August 14 2016 07:40 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:39 Nebuchad wrote:On August 14 2016 07:37 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:36 ArtyK wrote:On August 14 2016 07:35 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:34 ArtyK wrote:On August 14 2016 07:33 beentheredonethat wrote:
[quote]
There's always an exception to the rule. But I'm fairly sure you'll agree with me that in whatever foreign tournament TRUE decides to play, he'll be a favourite to win. id argue nerchio neeb or one of the terrans over true I'd rate TRUE higher than any foreign pro. I'm ready to bet 50 bucks that TRUE won't lose to any pro in a Bo21 series. i mean bo21 is unlikely to happen so lets stay on bo5 - bo7s shall we :D TRUE definetly has strong zvp and zvz but idk his zvt is shaky ever since he came to us The idea behind the bo21 is that a single bo5 or a single bo7 does not indicate the better player. Only numerous games over a period of time determine that. The idea behind the bo21 is that preparing for a series is cheating, and that your wins aren't as legitimate as doing a ladder macro build 21 times. Nah, you're missing my point. Take the bo21 as a three times bo7. Is it more clear now? It's still wrong. The notion that a longer series allows the better player to win implies that having a series (or a game) well prepared is not as impressive a skill as having a build that you can repeat consistently. Okay, let's say that two players meet over the course of one year in five bo3, three bo7, and three bo5. I'd easily say that the guy who comes out as the overall winner in that period of time is the better player. My bo21 example should've expressed that but I guess I should have made my point more clear. (Although I still think that one bo21+ series determines the better player, too) Neeb's played TRUE in 2 bo5 and 2 bo3 over the last year and won all of them.
That's only a bo16, it doesn't show actual skill
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On August 14 2016 07:41 beentheredonethat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 07:40 Ej_ wrote:On August 14 2016 07:38 beentheredonethat wrote:
But what I originally wanted to say is that I think that pretty much any Korean is going to win over foreigners and be the favourite in the current system. They are peak players. Very few highly skilled players cannot create a good environment for foreigners to improve . That's also wrong. Koreans outside Korea are nothing more than people who chase the easier competition. Yes. And one peak player among one hundred weaker players will win most of the time, but the 100 other players will not be able to improve. If there would be like 25 koreans on 100 foreigners, foreigners would improve in the long run.
That's simply not true. You don't need these way better players dropped into your scene to improve it. A scene has to start somewhere and if there are enough players in that scene willing to compete and motivated to get better than the whole scene will get better in the long run.
Korea got to where it's at right now because some guys started it, not because some aliens dropped there training them.
You will always have better and worse players in a scene and as long as the worse players are motivated to catch up the whole scene will get better.
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On August 14 2016 07:45 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 07:44 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:42 Nebuchad wrote:On August 14 2016 07:40 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:39 Nebuchad wrote:On August 14 2016 07:37 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:36 ArtyK wrote:On August 14 2016 07:35 beentheredonethat wrote:On August 14 2016 07:34 ArtyK wrote:On August 14 2016 07:33 beentheredonethat wrote:
[quote]
There's always an exception to the rule. But I'm fairly sure you'll agree with me that in whatever foreign tournament TRUE decides to play, he'll be a favourite to win. id argue nerchio neeb or one of the terrans over true I'd rate TRUE higher than any foreign pro. I'm ready to bet 50 bucks that TRUE won't lose to any pro in a Bo21 series. i mean bo21 is unlikely to happen so lets stay on bo5 - bo7s shall we :D TRUE definetly has strong zvp and zvz but idk his zvt is shaky ever since he came to us The idea behind the bo21 is that a single bo5 or a single bo7 does not indicate the better player. Only numerous games over a period of time determine that. The idea behind the bo21 is that preparing for a series is cheating, and that your wins aren't as legitimate as doing a ladder macro build 21 times. Nah, you're missing my point. Take the bo21 as a three times bo7. Is it more clear now? It's still wrong. The notion that a longer series allows the better player to win implies that having a series (or a game) well prepared is not as impressive a skill as having a build that you can repeat consistently. Okay, let's say that two players meet over the course of one year in five bo3, three bo7, and three bo5. I'd easily say that the guy who comes out as the overall winner in that period of time is the better player. My bo21 example should've expressed that but I guess I should have made my point more clear. (Although I still think that one bo21+ series determines the better player, too) Neeb's played TRUE in 2 bo5 and 2 bo3 over the last year and won all of them.
They will, if they will, meet in the finals and neeb does not win finals.
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On August 14 2016 07:45 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2016 07:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On August 14 2016 07:44 Cricketer12 wrote:On August 14 2016 07:42 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
OH shit. Soularion getting called out for his power rank. wait what?! my stream lagged out, I missed it! Rotterdam told him that TL placed him 13th on the power rank, and TRUE said that "TL didn't know anything about Starcraft". At least Rotti reads TL!
Almost pros are lurking on this thread, when I was at WCS Spring they were all on the LR
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On August 14 2016 07:45 Makro wrote:i have a bad news for you
I think Drogo will be fine against Polt though. Unless Polt either really upped his game, or took a 3-day break from his waifu to do better here.
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On August 14 2016 07:45 Shellshock wrote:
Pretty sure Soularion didn't know TRUE won Cheesadelphia otherwise he would have had him top 5
why are you a mod anyway and not a writer? its not like you ever ban anyone
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EPT
