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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On September 04 2015 19:54 Heartland wrote:
Protoss goes 3 obs usually, not five, in PvT. More cuts into colossus production.
Well I haven't said you have to have then. Not that long time ago it was a good practice to use spotting pylons or zealots. Don't know why pros abandoned this.
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On September 04 2015 19:56 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 19:53 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:47 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:41 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:39 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:36 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:29 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:27 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:25 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:20 MorDka wrote:
[quote]
you can't defend them... Certainly you can. Coda is good map for turtling Protoss. No dead air space on the edges, you don't need that much observers. If you delay your upgrades a little and save chrono for observers, you are fine and you see every drop miles ahead. Also herO opened with a SG, he could go into phoenix colossi. Yes coda is kinda good but its not enough, one double drop unspotted reks you anyway, hero defend perfectly until that double drop came unspotted... An unscouted drop can kill you? That sounds like TvP. Or TvT. Or TvZ Wow you actually describe any situation where an unscouted attack can do huge damage Well its to hard to scout for protoss. Terrans have scans they can spot with cheap marines and they have their speedvac so they can react to a drop coming. Zerg has creep spread, overlords, overseeers, zerglings to spot and mutas to kill the drops. Protoss can only really use the observers where you neeed to build cloususes from the same building and Phonixes kill medivacs so slowly that hero makes voidrays instead of them and that didnt even work as you could see, Only mass phoenix styles can deal with the drops okayish but i don't see any koreans do these and make them work... I dont really know what to say when you are seriously claiming late TvP is T favoured or that drops are imba. Yes they are annoying but without drops the game is unplaybale because P turtles till storm/colossi and 20+ warpgates and gets a 60+% winrate. Go watch some recent Zest PvT games. Get an observer ring and split your army right and every drop gets shut down hard Yes you are right i just think that drops are too strong vs protoss... the match up itself is balanced Drops are insanely strong on maps like Whirlwind or Catallena. On maps where 5 observers covers every access path from the air for 3 bases they are not. Also you can place cheap pylons or zealots. On 3 bases you can use even probes, Protoss is about gas anyway  herO used a hallucination for his "middle" spot and it fade out when the drop happened. He should have noticed some medevacs are missing or he should have an observer there, or at least have a pylon on his edge of main so he could have seen that drop few seconds earlier(I don't think it would help that much though). Drops are fast and strong, but they are not that strong against P. Against Maru I would dare to say that go for 1/1 from 1 forge and go stupidly rushed storm(splash doesn't ask about upgrade deficit) or go more blink stalkers or double robo(so you can have those observers and colossi at the same time). You have to survive mid game. Yes hero used hallucination because he can't afford to make 5 observers from the robo. It's funny how you know how to beat maru and you are not a gsl champion. When you say it sounds so ez So we get to this? Well then whine all day... jeez, it's like Maru is undefeated or what..
I'm sure that you can beat him...
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Good game Classic. Hoping for a Classic win on the next game
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That was a long game into the lamest possible ending ever :D
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Classic is really solid in long games. sOs shouldn't let it happen.
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On September 04 2015 19:53 MorDka wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 19:47 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:41 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:39 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:36 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:29 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:27 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:25 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:20 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:19 NeThZOR wrote:
[quote]
No way. Protoss late game is favoured if you know how to defend all of your bases and keep yourself from falling to multi-pronged attacks. Both styles can work vs Terran. you can't defend them... Certainly you can. Coda is good map for turtling Protoss. No dead air space on the edges, you don't need that much observers. If you delay your upgrades a little and save chrono for observers, you are fine and you see every drop miles ahead. Also herO opened with a SG, he could go into phoenix colossi. Yes coda is kinda good but its not enough, one double drop unspotted reks you anyway, hero defend perfectly until that double drop came unspotted... An unscouted drop can kill you? That sounds like TvP. Or TvT. Or TvZ Wow you actually describe any situation where an unscouted attack can do huge damage Well its to hard to scout for protoss. Terrans have scans they can spot with cheap marines and they have their speedvac so they can react to a drop coming. Zerg has creep spread, overlords, overseeers, zerglings to spot and mutas to kill the drops. Protoss can only really use the observers where you neeed to build cloususes from the same building and Phonixes kill medivacs so slowly that hero makes voidrays instead of them and that didnt even work as you could see, Only mass phoenix styles can deal with the drops okayish but i don't see any koreans do these and make them work... I dont really know what to say when you are seriously claiming late TvP is T favoured or that drops are imba. Yes they are annoying but without drops the game is unplaybale because P turtles till storm/colossi and 20+ warpgates and gets a 60+% winrate. Go watch some recent Zest PvT games. Get an observer ring and split your army right and every drop gets shut down hard Yes you are right i just think that drops are too strong vs protoss... the match up itself is balanced Drops are insanely strong on maps like Whirlwind or Catallena. On maps where 5 observers covers every access path from the air for 3 bases they are not. Also you can place cheap pylons or zealots. On 3 bases you can use even probes, Protoss is about gas anyway herO used a hallucination for his "middle" spot and it fade out when the drop happened. He should have noticed some medevacs are missing or he should have an observer there, or at least have a pylon on his edge of main so he could have seen that drop few seconds earlier(I don't think it would help that much though). Drops are fast and strong, but they are not that strong against P. Against Maru I would dare to say that go for 1/1 from 1 forge and go stupidly rushed storm(splash doesn't ask about upgrade deficit) or go more blink stalkers or double robo(so you can have those observers and colossi at the same time). You have to survive mid game. Yes hero used hallucination because he can't afford to make 5 observers from the robo. It's funny how you know how to beat maru and you are not a gsl champion. When you say it sounds so ez
why do people keep pulling out this stupid argument? "You didnt win a GSL, you cant be smarter than SC2 Korean pros."
Korean pros are not really smarter than other people, they just have better work ethic
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On September 04 2015 19:57 Durnuu wrote:Poll: Recommend Classic vs sOs Game 2 ?★- Do not see this game no matter what (2) 29% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1) 14% ★★★ - Good game (4) 57% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0) 0% ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0) 0% 7 total votes Your vote: Recommend Classic vs sOs Game 2 ? (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On September 04 2015 19:58 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 19:53 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:47 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:41 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:39 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:36 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:29 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:27 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:25 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:20 MorDka wrote:
[quote]
you can't defend them... Certainly you can. Coda is good map for turtling Protoss. No dead air space on the edges, you don't need that much observers. If you delay your upgrades a little and save chrono for observers, you are fine and you see every drop miles ahead. Also herO opened with a SG, he could go into phoenix colossi. Yes coda is kinda good but its not enough, one double drop unspotted reks you anyway, hero defend perfectly until that double drop came unspotted... An unscouted drop can kill you? That sounds like TvP. Or TvT. Or TvZ Wow you actually describe any situation where an unscouted attack can do huge damage Well its to hard to scout for protoss. Terrans have scans they can spot with cheap marines and they have their speedvac so they can react to a drop coming. Zerg has creep spread, overlords, overseeers, zerglings to spot and mutas to kill the drops. Protoss can only really use the observers where you neeed to build cloususes from the same building and Phonixes kill medivacs so slowly that hero makes voidrays instead of them and that didnt even work as you could see, Only mass phoenix styles can deal with the drops okayish but i don't see any koreans do these and make them work... I dont really know what to say when you are seriously claiming late TvP is T favoured or that drops are imba. Yes they are annoying but without drops the game is unplaybale because P turtles till storm/colossi and 20+ warpgates and gets a 60+% winrate. Go watch some recent Zest PvT games. Get an observer ring and split your army right and every drop gets shut down hard Yes you are right i just think that drops are too strong vs protoss... the match up itself is balanced Drops are insanely strong on maps like Whirlwind or Catallena. On maps where 5 observers covers every access path from the air for 3 bases they are not. Also you can place cheap pylons or zealots. On 3 bases you can use even probes, Protoss is about gas anyway herO used a hallucination for his "middle" spot and it fade out when the drop happened. He should have noticed some medevacs are missing or he should have an observer there, or at least have a pylon on his edge of main so he could have seen that drop few seconds earlier(I don't think it would help that much though). Drops are fast and strong, but they are not that strong against P. Against Maru I would dare to say that go for 1/1 from 1 forge and go stupidly rushed storm(splash doesn't ask about upgrade deficit) or go more blink stalkers or double robo(so you can have those observers and colossi at the same time). You have to survive mid game. Yes hero used hallucination because he can't afford to make 5 observers from the robo. It's funny how you know how to beat maru and you are not a gsl champion. When you say it sounds so ez why do people keep pulling out this stupid argument? "You didnt win a GSL, you cant be smarter than SC2 Korean pros." Korean pros are not really smarter than other people, they just have better work ethic
And they do stupid stuff too. Like suiciding into a mine field, since we have sOs on the screen now
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On September 04 2015 19:58 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 19:53 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:47 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:41 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:39 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:36 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:29 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:27 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:25 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:20 MorDka wrote:
[quote]
you can't defend them... Certainly you can. Coda is good map for turtling Protoss. No dead air space on the edges, you don't need that much observers. If you delay your upgrades a little and save chrono for observers, you are fine and you see every drop miles ahead. Also herO opened with a SG, he could go into phoenix colossi. Yes coda is kinda good but its not enough, one double drop unspotted reks you anyway, hero defend perfectly until that double drop came unspotted... An unscouted drop can kill you? That sounds like TvP. Or TvT. Or TvZ Wow you actually describe any situation where an unscouted attack can do huge damage Well its to hard to scout for protoss. Terrans have scans they can spot with cheap marines and they have their speedvac so they can react to a drop coming. Zerg has creep spread, overlords, overseeers, zerglings to spot and mutas to kill the drops. Protoss can only really use the observers where you neeed to build cloususes from the same building and Phonixes kill medivacs so slowly that hero makes voidrays instead of them and that didnt even work as you could see, Only mass phoenix styles can deal with the drops okayish but i don't see any koreans do these and make them work... I dont really know what to say when you are seriously claiming late TvP is T favoured or that drops are imba. Yes they are annoying but without drops the game is unplaybale because P turtles till storm/colossi and 20+ warpgates and gets a 60+% winrate. Go watch some recent Zest PvT games. Get an observer ring and split your army right and every drop gets shut down hard Yes you are right i just think that drops are too strong vs protoss... the match up itself is balanced Drops are insanely strong on maps like Whirlwind or Catallena. On maps where 5 observers covers every access path from the air for 3 bases they are not. Also you can place cheap pylons or zealots. On 3 bases you can use even probes, Protoss is about gas anyway herO used a hallucination for his "middle" spot and it fade out when the drop happened. He should have noticed some medevacs are missing or he should have an observer there, or at least have a pylon on his edge of main so he could have seen that drop few seconds earlier(I don't think it would help that much though). Drops are fast and strong, but they are not that strong against P. Against Maru I would dare to say that go for 1/1 from 1 forge and go stupidly rushed storm(splash doesn't ask about upgrade deficit) or go more blink stalkers or double robo(so you can have those observers and colossi at the same time). You have to survive mid game. Yes hero used hallucination because he can't afford to make 5 observers from the robo. It's funny how you know how to beat maru and you are not a gsl champion. When you say it sounds so ez why do people keep pulling out this stupid argument? "You didnt win a GSL, you cant be smarter than SC2 Korean pros." Korean pros are not really smarter than other people, they just have better work ethic
And bet Korean pros don't spend so much time balance whining
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On September 04 2015 19:57 MorDka wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 19:56 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:53 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:47 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:41 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:39 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:36 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:29 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:27 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:25 deacon.frost wrote:
[quote]
Certainly you can. Coda is good map for turtling Protoss. No dead air space on the edges, you don't need that much observers. If you delay your upgrades a little and save chrono for observers, you are fine and you see every drop miles ahead. Also herO opened with a SG, he could go into phoenix colossi. Yes coda is kinda good but its not enough, one double drop unspotted reks you anyway, hero defend perfectly until that double drop came unspotted... An unscouted drop can kill you? That sounds like TvP. Or TvT. Or TvZ Wow you actually describe any situation where an unscouted attack can do huge damage Well its to hard to scout for protoss. Terrans have scans they can spot with cheap marines and they have their speedvac so they can react to a drop coming. Zerg has creep spread, overlords, overseeers, zerglings to spot and mutas to kill the drops. Protoss can only really use the observers where you neeed to build cloususes from the same building and Phonixes kill medivacs so slowly that hero makes voidrays instead of them and that didnt even work as you could see, Only mass phoenix styles can deal with the drops okayish but i don't see any koreans do these and make them work... I dont really know what to say when you are seriously claiming late TvP is T favoured or that drops are imba. Yes they are annoying but without drops the game is unplaybale because P turtles till storm/colossi and 20+ warpgates and gets a 60+% winrate. Go watch some recent Zest PvT games. Get an observer ring and split your army right and every drop gets shut down hard Yes you are right i just think that drops are too strong vs protoss... the match up itself is balanced Drops are insanely strong on maps like Whirlwind or Catallena. On maps where 5 observers covers every access path from the air for 3 bases they are not. Also you can place cheap pylons or zealots. On 3 bases you can use even probes, Protoss is about gas anyway herO used a hallucination for his "middle" spot and it fade out when the drop happened. He should have noticed some medevacs are missing or he should have an observer there, or at least have a pylon on his edge of main so he could have seen that drop few seconds earlier(I don't think it would help that much though). Drops are fast and strong, but they are not that strong against P. Against Maru I would dare to say that go for 1/1 from 1 forge and go stupidly rushed storm(splash doesn't ask about upgrade deficit) or go more blink stalkers or double robo(so you can have those observers and colossi at the same time). You have to survive mid game. Yes hero used hallucination because he can't afford to make 5 observers from the robo. It's funny how you know how to beat maru and you are not a gsl champion. When you say it sounds so ez So we get to this? Well then whine all day... jeez, it's like Maru is undefeated or what.. I'm sure that you can beat him...
"I am not a pro but i know drops are too strong. You are not a pro therefor your opinion that drops are fine is stupid"
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On September 04 2015 19:58 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 19:53 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:47 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:41 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:39 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:36 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:29 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:27 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:25 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:20 MorDka wrote:
[quote]
you can't defend them... Certainly you can. Coda is good map for turtling Protoss. No dead air space on the edges, you don't need that much observers. If you delay your upgrades a little and save chrono for observers, you are fine and you see every drop miles ahead. Also herO opened with a SG, he could go into phoenix colossi. Yes coda is kinda good but its not enough, one double drop unspotted reks you anyway, hero defend perfectly until that double drop came unspotted... An unscouted drop can kill you? That sounds like TvP. Or TvT. Or TvZ Wow you actually describe any situation where an unscouted attack can do huge damage Well its to hard to scout for protoss. Terrans have scans they can spot with cheap marines and they have their speedvac so they can react to a drop coming. Zerg has creep spread, overlords, overseeers, zerglings to spot and mutas to kill the drops. Protoss can only really use the observers where you neeed to build cloususes from the same building and Phonixes kill medivacs so slowly that hero makes voidrays instead of them and that didnt even work as you could see, Only mass phoenix styles can deal with the drops okayish but i don't see any koreans do these and make them work... I dont really know what to say when you are seriously claiming late TvP is T favoured or that drops are imba. Yes they are annoying but without drops the game is unplaybale because P turtles till storm/colossi and 20+ warpgates and gets a 60+% winrate. Go watch some recent Zest PvT games. Get an observer ring and split your army right and every drop gets shut down hard Yes you are right i just think that drops are too strong vs protoss... the match up itself is balanced Drops are insanely strong on maps like Whirlwind or Catallena. On maps where 5 observers covers every access path from the air for 3 bases they are not. Also you can place cheap pylons or zealots. On 3 bases you can use even probes, Protoss is about gas anyway herO used a hallucination for his "middle" spot and it fade out when the drop happened. He should have noticed some medevacs are missing or he should have an observer there, or at least have a pylon on his edge of main so he could have seen that drop few seconds earlier(I don't think it would help that much though). Drops are fast and strong, but they are not that strong against P. Against Maru I would dare to say that go for 1/1 from 1 forge and go stupidly rushed storm(splash doesn't ask about upgrade deficit) or go more blink stalkers or double robo(so you can have those observers and colossi at the same time). You have to survive mid game. Yes hero used hallucination because he can't afford to make 5 observers from the robo. It's funny how you know how to beat maru and you are not a gsl champion. When you say it sounds so ez why do people keep pulling out this stupid argument? "You didnt win a GSL, you cant be smarter than SC2 Korean pros." Korean pros are not really smarter than other people, they just have better work ethic
To be fair though, they also understand the game better than us plebs.
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On September 04 2015 19:58 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 19:53 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:47 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:41 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:39 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:36 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:29 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:27 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:25 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:20 MorDka wrote:
[quote]
you can't defend them... Certainly you can. Coda is good map for turtling Protoss. No dead air space on the edges, you don't need that much observers. If you delay your upgrades a little and save chrono for observers, you are fine and you see every drop miles ahead. Also herO opened with a SG, he could go into phoenix colossi. Yes coda is kinda good but its not enough, one double drop unspotted reks you anyway, hero defend perfectly until that double drop came unspotted... An unscouted drop can kill you? That sounds like TvP. Or TvT. Or TvZ Wow you actually describe any situation where an unscouted attack can do huge damage Well its to hard to scout for protoss. Terrans have scans they can spot with cheap marines and they have their speedvac so they can react to a drop coming. Zerg has creep spread, overlords, overseeers, zerglings to spot and mutas to kill the drops. Protoss can only really use the observers where you neeed to build cloususes from the same building and Phonixes kill medivacs so slowly that hero makes voidrays instead of them and that didnt even work as you could see, Only mass phoenix styles can deal with the drops okayish but i don't see any koreans do these and make them work... I dont really know what to say when you are seriously claiming late TvP is T favoured or that drops are imba. Yes they are annoying but without drops the game is unplaybale because P turtles till storm/colossi and 20+ warpgates and gets a 60+% winrate. Go watch some recent Zest PvT games. Get an observer ring and split your army right and every drop gets shut down hard Yes you are right i just think that drops are too strong vs protoss... the match up itself is balanced Drops are insanely strong on maps like Whirlwind or Catallena. On maps where 5 observers covers every access path from the air for 3 bases they are not. Also you can place cheap pylons or zealots. On 3 bases you can use even probes, Protoss is about gas anyway herO used a hallucination for his "middle" spot and it fade out when the drop happened. He should have noticed some medevacs are missing or he should have an observer there, or at least have a pylon on his edge of main so he could have seen that drop few seconds earlier(I don't think it would help that much though). Drops are fast and strong, but they are not that strong against P. Against Maru I would dare to say that go for 1/1 from 1 forge and go stupidly rushed storm(splash doesn't ask about upgrade deficit) or go more blink stalkers or double robo(so you can have those observers and colossi at the same time). You have to survive mid game. Yes hero used hallucination because he can't afford to make 5 observers from the robo. It's funny how you know how to beat maru and you are not a gsl champion. When you say it sounds so ez why do people keep pulling out this stupid argument? "You didnt win a GSL, you cant be smarter than SC2 Korean pros." Korean pros are not really smarter than other people, they just have better work ethic
I agree with you, but things he says are totally wrong...
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On September 04 2015 19:57 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 19:54 Heartland wrote:
Protoss goes 3 obs usually, not five, in PvT. More cuts into colossus production. Well I haven't said you have to have then. Not that long time ago it was a good practice to use spotting pylons or zealots. Don't know why pros abandoned this.
I think you only do probe+pylon scouts around your base when your tech isn't the usual route and which has cut into obs production, like phoenix/coloss openers, some Blink ones and some Oracle ones.
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On September 04 2015 19:59 NeThZOR wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 19:58 sharkie wrote:On September 04 2015 19:53 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:47 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:41 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:39 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:36 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:29 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:27 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:25 deacon.frost wrote:
[quote]
Certainly you can. Coda is good map for turtling Protoss. No dead air space on the edges, you don't need that much observers. If you delay your upgrades a little and save chrono for observers, you are fine and you see every drop miles ahead. Also herO opened with a SG, he could go into phoenix colossi. Yes coda is kinda good but its not enough, one double drop unspotted reks you anyway, hero defend perfectly until that double drop came unspotted... An unscouted drop can kill you? That sounds like TvP. Or TvT. Or TvZ Wow you actually describe any situation where an unscouted attack can do huge damage Well its to hard to scout for protoss. Terrans have scans they can spot with cheap marines and they have their speedvac so they can react to a drop coming. Zerg has creep spread, overlords, overseeers, zerglings to spot and mutas to kill the drops. Protoss can only really use the observers where you neeed to build cloususes from the same building and Phonixes kill medivacs so slowly that hero makes voidrays instead of them and that didnt even work as you could see, Only mass phoenix styles can deal with the drops okayish but i don't see any koreans do these and make them work... I dont really know what to say when you are seriously claiming late TvP is T favoured or that drops are imba. Yes they are annoying but without drops the game is unplaybale because P turtles till storm/colossi and 20+ warpgates and gets a 60+% winrate. Go watch some recent Zest PvT games. Get an observer ring and split your army right and every drop gets shut down hard Yes you are right i just think that drops are too strong vs protoss... the match up itself is balanced Drops are insanely strong on maps like Whirlwind or Catallena. On maps where 5 observers covers every access path from the air for 3 bases they are not. Also you can place cheap pylons or zealots. On 3 bases you can use even probes, Protoss is about gas anyway herO used a hallucination for his "middle" spot and it fade out when the drop happened. He should have noticed some medevacs are missing or he should have an observer there, or at least have a pylon on his edge of main so he could have seen that drop few seconds earlier(I don't think it would help that much though). Drops are fast and strong, but they are not that strong against P. Against Maru I would dare to say that go for 1/1 from 1 forge and go stupidly rushed storm(splash doesn't ask about upgrade deficit) or go more blink stalkers or double robo(so you can have those observers and colossi at the same time). You have to survive mid game. Yes hero used hallucination because he can't afford to make 5 observers from the robo. It's funny how you know how to beat maru and you are not a gsl champion. When you say it sounds so ez why do people keep pulling out this stupid argument? "You didnt win a GSL, you cant be smarter than SC2 Korean pros." Korean pros are not really smarter than other people, they just have better work ethic And bet Korean pros don't spend so much time balance whining
Korean pros balance whine so much haha.
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On September 04 2015 20:01 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 19:59 NeThZOR wrote:On September 04 2015 19:58 sharkie wrote:On September 04 2015 19:53 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:47 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:41 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:39 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:36 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:29 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:27 MorDka wrote:
[quote]
Yes coda is kinda good but its not enough, one double drop unspotted reks you anyway, hero defend perfectly until that double drop came unspotted... An unscouted drop can kill you? That sounds like TvP. Or TvT. Or TvZ Wow you actually describe any situation where an unscouted attack can do huge damage Well its to hard to scout for protoss. Terrans have scans they can spot with cheap marines and they have their speedvac so they can react to a drop coming. Zerg has creep spread, overlords, overseeers, zerglings to spot and mutas to kill the drops. Protoss can only really use the observers where you neeed to build cloususes from the same building and Phonixes kill medivacs so slowly that hero makes voidrays instead of them and that didnt even work as you could see, Only mass phoenix styles can deal with the drops okayish but i don't see any koreans do these and make them work... I dont really know what to say when you are seriously claiming late TvP is T favoured or that drops are imba. Yes they are annoying but without drops the game is unplaybale because P turtles till storm/colossi and 20+ warpgates and gets a 60+% winrate. Go watch some recent Zest PvT games. Get an observer ring and split your army right and every drop gets shut down hard Yes you are right i just think that drops are too strong vs protoss... the match up itself is balanced Drops are insanely strong on maps like Whirlwind or Catallena. On maps where 5 observers covers every access path from the air for 3 bases they are not. Also you can place cheap pylons or zealots. On 3 bases you can use even probes, Protoss is about gas anyway herO used a hallucination for his "middle" spot and it fade out when the drop happened. He should have noticed some medevacs are missing or he should have an observer there, or at least have a pylon on his edge of main so he could have seen that drop few seconds earlier(I don't think it would help that much though). Drops are fast and strong, but they are not that strong against P. Against Maru I would dare to say that go for 1/1 from 1 forge and go stupidly rushed storm(splash doesn't ask about upgrade deficit) or go more blink stalkers or double robo(so you can have those observers and colossi at the same time). You have to survive mid game. Yes hero used hallucination because he can't afford to make 5 observers from the robo. It's funny how you know how to beat maru and you are not a gsl champion. When you say it sounds so ez why do people keep pulling out this stupid argument? "You didnt win a GSL, you cant be smarter than SC2 Korean pros." Korean pros are not really smarter than other people, they just have better work ethic And bet Korean pros don't spend so much time balance whining Korean pros balance whine so much haha.
I'd balance whine as well if it could make me win 200.000$ a year
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On September 04 2015 20:01 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 19:59 NeThZOR wrote:On September 04 2015 19:58 sharkie wrote:On September 04 2015 19:53 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:47 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:41 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:39 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:36 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:29 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:27 MorDka wrote:
[quote]
Yes coda is kinda good but its not enough, one double drop unspotted reks you anyway, hero defend perfectly until that double drop came unspotted... An unscouted drop can kill you? That sounds like TvP. Or TvT. Or TvZ Wow you actually describe any situation where an unscouted attack can do huge damage Well its to hard to scout for protoss. Terrans have scans they can spot with cheap marines and they have their speedvac so they can react to a drop coming. Zerg has creep spread, overlords, overseeers, zerglings to spot and mutas to kill the drops. Protoss can only really use the observers where you neeed to build cloususes from the same building and Phonixes kill medivacs so slowly that hero makes voidrays instead of them and that didnt even work as you could see, Only mass phoenix styles can deal with the drops okayish but i don't see any koreans do these and make them work... I dont really know what to say when you are seriously claiming late TvP is T favoured or that drops are imba. Yes they are annoying but without drops the game is unplaybale because P turtles till storm/colossi and 20+ warpgates and gets a 60+% winrate. Go watch some recent Zest PvT games. Get an observer ring and split your army right and every drop gets shut down hard Yes you are right i just think that drops are too strong vs protoss... the match up itself is balanced Drops are insanely strong on maps like Whirlwind or Catallena. On maps where 5 observers covers every access path from the air for 3 bases they are not. Also you can place cheap pylons or zealots. On 3 bases you can use even probes, Protoss is about gas anyway herO used a hallucination for his "middle" spot and it fade out when the drop happened. He should have noticed some medevacs are missing or he should have an observer there, or at least have a pylon on his edge of main so he could have seen that drop few seconds earlier(I don't think it would help that much though). Drops are fast and strong, but they are not that strong against P. Against Maru I would dare to say that go for 1/1 from 1 forge and go stupidly rushed storm(splash doesn't ask about upgrade deficit) or go more blink stalkers or double robo(so you can have those observers and colossi at the same time). You have to survive mid game. Yes hero used hallucination because he can't afford to make 5 observers from the robo. It's funny how you know how to beat maru and you are not a gsl champion. When you say it sounds so ez why do people keep pulling out this stupid argument? "You didnt win a GSL, you cant be smarter than SC2 Korean pros." Korean pros are not really smarter than other people, they just have better work ethic And bet Korean pros don't spend so much time balance whining Korean pros balance whine so much haha.
Rain especially 
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On September 04 2015 20:02 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 20:01 Heartland wrote:On September 04 2015 19:59 NeThZOR wrote:On September 04 2015 19:58 sharkie wrote:On September 04 2015 19:53 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:47 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:41 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:39 BlackCompany wrote:On September 04 2015 19:36 MorDka wrote:On September 04 2015 19:29 BlackCompany wrote:
[quote]
An unscouted drop can kill you? That sounds like TvP. Or TvT. Or TvZ
Wow you actually describe any situation where an unscouted attack can do huge damage Well its to hard to scout for protoss. Terrans have scans they can spot with cheap marines and they have their speedvac so they can react to a drop coming. Zerg has creep spread, overlords, overseeers, zerglings to spot and mutas to kill the drops. Protoss can only really use the observers where you neeed to build cloususes from the same building and Phonixes kill medivacs so slowly that hero makes voidrays instead of them and that didnt even work as you could see, Only mass phoenix styles can deal with the drops okayish but i don't see any koreans do these and make them work... I dont really know what to say when you are seriously claiming late TvP is T favoured or that drops are imba. Yes they are annoying but without drops the game is unplaybale because P turtles till storm/colossi and 20+ warpgates and gets a 60+% winrate. Go watch some recent Zest PvT games. Get an observer ring and split your army right and every drop gets shut down hard Yes you are right i just think that drops are too strong vs protoss... the match up itself is balanced Drops are insanely strong on maps like Whirlwind or Catallena. On maps where 5 observers covers every access path from the air for 3 bases they are not. Also you can place cheap pylons or zealots. On 3 bases you can use even probes, Protoss is about gas anyway herO used a hallucination for his "middle" spot and it fade out when the drop happened. He should have noticed some medevacs are missing or he should have an observer there, or at least have a pylon on his edge of main so he could have seen that drop few seconds earlier(I don't think it would help that much though). Drops are fast and strong, but they are not that strong against P. Against Maru I would dare to say that go for 1/1 from 1 forge and go stupidly rushed storm(splash doesn't ask about upgrade deficit) or go more blink stalkers or double robo(so you can have those observers and colossi at the same time). You have to survive mid game. Yes hero used hallucination because he can't afford to make 5 observers from the robo. It's funny how you know how to beat maru and you are not a gsl champion. When you say it sounds so ez why do people keep pulling out this stupid argument? "You didnt win a GSL, you cant be smarter than SC2 Korean pros." Korean pros are not really smarter than other people, they just have better work ethic And bet Korean pros don't spend so much time balance whining Korean pros balance whine so much haha. Rain especially
Yeah, Solar as well
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On September 04 2015 20:00 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 19:57 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:54 Heartland wrote:
Protoss goes 3 obs usually, not five, in PvT. More cuts into colossus production. Well I haven't said you have to have then. Not that long time ago it was a good practice to use spotting pylons or zealots. Don't know why pros abandoned this. I think you only do probe+pylon scouts around your base when your tech isn't the usual route and which has cut into obs production, like phoenix/coloss openers, some Blink ones and some Oracle ones.
Hmm, not sure I understand you properly - year ago(+- few months) it was a practice to use spotting pylons in edges of the map so you can have observers on better positions. Nowadays I don't see a pylon on the edge to spot some random drop unless it's a proxy SG/DT. Do you say it's not used now unless you go some weird shenanigans?
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They have a larger stake in the game anyway, so it makes sense then if they do balance whine a lot. At lower levels it doesn't matter so much, only to your ego if you think you lost a game because of imba drops
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On September 04 2015 20:03 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2015 20:00 Heartland wrote:On September 04 2015 19:57 deacon.frost wrote:On September 04 2015 19:54 Heartland wrote:
Protoss goes 3 obs usually, not five, in PvT. More cuts into colossus production. Well I haven't said you have to have then. Not that long time ago it was a good practice to use spotting pylons or zealots. Don't know why pros abandoned this. I think you only do probe+pylon scouts around your base when your tech isn't the usual route and which has cut into obs production, like phoenix/coloss openers, some Blink ones and some Oracle ones. Hmm, not sure I understand you properly - year ago(+- few months) it was a practice to use spotting pylons in edges of the map so you can have observers on better positions. Nowadays I don't see a pylon on the edge to spot some random drop unless it's a proxy SG/DT. Do you say it's not used now unless you go some weird shenanigans?
at least the way I've gotten it, and I might be wrong, you only use pylons and probes when you haven't gone a generally standard build. That is, defensive Blink into Coloss, Coloss into Blink and so on. Builds which are more gas heavy or offer less time to build obs due to an SG or Dark Shrine or heavy Blink pressure eats up the gas so you rush to coloss without more than like one obs or so.
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EPT
