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On July 07 2014 06:45 codonbyte wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 06:37 Lyyna wrote:On July 07 2014 06:30 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:27 mabla wrote:On July 07 2014 06:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:07 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:01 mabla wrote:On July 07 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Removing Avilo from the featured list seems like a perfectly reasonable measure to me. It would not be the first time someone has been removed from the featured list because Teamliquid believed their content was detrimental to the site and scene. Avilo qualifies. It's not like his stream is even good enough quality to be featured anyway, I guess the ad money wasn't enough to buy a proper microphone. Good idea! And while we're at it, we can also ban all the Korean players without mic and/or camera, since their quality is surely worse than a stream with a cam and a bad mic. Their streams are objectively better from a production standpoint since Avilo is not speaking in any of them. 1.3k people disagree with you, seeing as at this very moment, his stream is ONLY his voice and 1.3k viewers think that's good enough to tune into. It's cute that you think they're tuning in because they like him. You need only read his chat, the majority of people hate him, they're there to make fun of him. If I turn on my stream right now with a static image I will get more views than Avilo. 1.3k people is not impressive. He is a circus act, the village idiot, the kind of person you put in the stocks and throw rotten fruit at. If anything he is a symptom of a diseased scene that needs a good clean-up, someone who should be left to languish in obscurity, not given pride of place on the Teamliquid frontpage. They turn in because he provides entertainment. Some are there because he is one of the few players, who play mech. Some are there because he whines about protoss. And some are there because they hate him. That's the same reason you would get views with that static image. People expect you to entertain them. Avilo is not the reason people stop playing the game or stop watching! Do you really think a player finishes laddering, watches avilos rant and suddenly thinks the game is broken? I think it's the other way around. He plays, thinks 'toss imba' and watches avilo. It like the end of Wol where everybody pretended the game was balanced. Then HotS can out and everybody complained about BL Infestor. Excellent point. Avilo's stream is a safe haven for anybody who has had it up to here with Terran bio, and wants to see some long drawn out mech games that last for over 60 minutes. A safe heaven.. as long as you don't remember him there is other mech players, that some of them are known, and that some of them are as good / better than him. Also, as long you agree with him, don't say anything to contradict him, and to try to argue with him, regardless of how polite or constructive you are. In short, it is a safe heaven, as long as you don't try to do anything besides actively supporting him. In Avilo's chat, you're perfectly welcome to mention other players that go mech. Funny you should bring it up though, since several other streamers auto-kick for even mentioning Avilo's name in their stream chats. Avilo doesn't stoop to their level. As for it being unsafe to disagree with him, that is patently false. If you are rude or disrespectful, you'll probably get muted, but not for simply disagreeing with him.
Funny, because i got banned/timed out on his chat for :
-Mentionning my 2 years old guide (just in order to tell someone else while giving tips i had experience on the subject, nothing more, no links, no ad, explicitly said it was outdated)
-Giving constructive feedback on his play or his attitude on his chat and on his stream thread
-Telling him he was wrong about calling some people cheaters/hackers
-Telling him every single korean using mech may have not been inspired by him
-Once, simply for logging in, because i was "known as a hater" (meta-banned?).
Just to say, i was a fan for a year and an active participant and supporter for months, known (as sassy herself used to say) as a cool guy giving good advices and never hating, always just being honest and never saying any bad word. After the two first incidents, i became "a known hater".
You can play the "good guy" card as much as you want. I got banned simply for sharing my experiences as a mech player with people. I got banned for disagreeing with him or being honest (not rude or anything - just honest, giving him examples and solutions and keeping a cool tone , and both about his play, and his attitude). I saw people getting banned for mentioning Mario or myself. I saw people getting banned for talking about Flash, Ty, etc playing about mech and implying their play wasn"t directly created using avilo's play. I saw people getting avilo'd (you know, like sending his whole fanclub to harass them) just for daring to say he isn't a code-S caliber mech god, savior of esports, creator of every single T innovations in the last 4 years.
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@TotalBiscuit
I understand all your points about Avilo and how he is toxic to the community, but is it right to bash on somebody for their opinion? For how they speak? For how bad their microphone is? For how high-pitched and annoying their lisp is? Is it right to bash somebody who is a source of entertainment for many Starcraft II players?
I watch all your organized tournaments and I'm happy every time you cast and host, (The Destiny vs. Nathanias show match was awesome) but today you lost some respect points from me.
~Insignificant Sc2 Player
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Atleast Idra was a progamer.
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On July 07 2014 06:55 ATChriz wrote:
@TotalBiscuit
I understand all your points about Avilo and how he is toxic to the community, but is it right to bash on somebody for their opinion? For how they speak? For how bad their microphone is? For how high-pitched and annoying their lisp is? Is it right to bash somebody who is a source of entertainment for many Starcraft II players?
Yes, because bash is a meaningless term and your attempt to frame Avilo as some sort of victim is ineffective. If he actually cared about the quality of his product, he would buy a proper mic. You conveniently ignored the main point which is that he is a toxic, balance-whining stain on the community, but I guess it is hard to dispute that since it's obviously true.
Bear-baiting is a source of entertainment to many people, but don't expect me to like it.
Atleast Idra was a progamer.
IdrA had results to back up his whine, so it was tolerated for longer but eventually the community had enough and he got fired for his attitude. Never forget that actually IdrA did not do the same thing and get away with it scott-free.
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On July 07 2014 06:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 06:45 SirPinky wrote:On July 07 2014 06:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:07 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:01 mabla wrote:On July 07 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Removing Avilo from the featured list seems like a perfectly reasonable measure to me. It would not be the first time someone has been removed from the featured list because Teamliquid believed their content was detrimental to the site and scene. Avilo qualifies. It's not like his stream is even good enough quality to be featured anyway, I guess the ad money wasn't enough to buy a proper microphone. Good idea! And while we're at it, we can also ban all the Korean players without mic and/or camera, since their quality is surely worse than a stream with a cam and a bad mic. Their streams are objectively better from a production standpoint since Avilo is not speaking in any of them. 1.3k people disagree with you, seeing as at this very moment, his stream is ONLY his voice and 1.3k viewers think that's good enough to tune into. It's cute that you think they're tuning in because they like him. You need only read his chat, the majority of people hate him, they're there to make fun of him. If I turn on my stream right now with a static image I will get more views than Avilo. 1.3k people is not impressive. He is a circus act, the village idiot, the kind of person you put in the stocks and throw rotten fruit at. If anything he is a symptom of a diseased scene that needs a good clean-up, someone who should be left to languish in obscurity, not given pride of place on the Teamliquid frontpage. I don't think people tune into the "village idiot" to laugh at him nightly. A "side show"would get old after one night; however, he has a continuous following and averages around 800-1.3k nightly. When you say Avilo is a sympton of the scene I hope you mean the disgraceful state of Terran. People are frustrated with the race and Avilo is there to feed the masses and comfort them and identify with their frustration. Once Terran is less marginalized as a race, Avilo viewership will go down. Right now the state of Terran is helping grown his community; heck, even TL has front page articles reinforcing much of the Avilo mentality (of course the article was far more constructive and toned down, but it carried the same message). Avilo is the same as Bill Maher getting more viewership during the Bush administration or Rush Limbaugh receiving more popularity during a Democrats term. The same applies to Avilo. Kaceytron receives an average of 4,000 viewers nightly. Case closed.
First off, I didn't even know who she is. I had to look her up. Second, I dont think you can compare a woman, clearly showing off her size D chest to the community, blitzed out it make-up for her obvious awaiting audience to Avilo. It is a known fact women receive significant larger viewership in the community b/c of the displaced ratio of guy-to-girl gamers. It is not to discount their ability, but I think someone would much rather see her than some 26 year old with a squeeky voice living in his parents house.
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On July 07 2014 06:53 Lyyna wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 06:45 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:37 Lyyna wrote:On July 07 2014 06:30 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:27 mabla wrote:On July 07 2014 06:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:07 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:01 mabla wrote:On July 07 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Removing Avilo from the featured list seems like a perfectly reasonable measure to me. It would not be the first time someone has been removed from the featured list because Teamliquid believed their content was detrimental to the site and scene. Avilo qualifies. It's not like his stream is even good enough quality to be featured anyway, I guess the ad money wasn't enough to buy a proper microphone. Good idea! And while we're at it, we can also ban all the Korean players without mic and/or camera, since their quality is surely worse than a stream with a cam and a bad mic. Their streams are objectively better from a production standpoint since Avilo is not speaking in any of them. 1.3k people disagree with you, seeing as at this very moment, his stream is ONLY his voice and 1.3k viewers think that's good enough to tune into. It's cute that you think they're tuning in because they like him. You need only read his chat, the majority of people hate him, they're there to make fun of him. If I turn on my stream right now with a static image I will get more views than Avilo. 1.3k people is not impressive. He is a circus act, the village idiot, the kind of person you put in the stocks and throw rotten fruit at. If anything he is a symptom of a diseased scene that needs a good clean-up, someone who should be left to languish in obscurity, not given pride of place on the Teamliquid frontpage. They turn in because he provides entertainment. Some are there because he is one of the few players, who play mech. Some are there because he whines about protoss. And some are there because they hate him. That's the same reason you would get views with that static image. People expect you to entertain them. Avilo is not the reason people stop playing the game or stop watching! Do you really think a player finishes laddering, watches avilos rant and suddenly thinks the game is broken? I think it's the other way around. He plays, thinks 'toss imba' and watches avilo. It like the end of Wol where everybody pretended the game was balanced. Then HotS can out and everybody complained about BL Infestor. Excellent point. Avilo's stream is a safe haven for anybody who has had it up to here with Terran bio, and wants to see some long drawn out mech games that last for over 60 minutes. A safe heaven.. as long as you don't remember him there is other mech players, that some of them are known, and that some of them are as good / better than him. Also, as long you agree with him, don't say anything to contradict him, and to try to argue with him, regardless of how polite or constructive you are. In short, it is a safe heaven, as long as you don't try to do anything besides actively supporting him. In Avilo's chat, you're perfectly welcome to mention other players that go mech. Funny you should bring it up though, since several other streamers auto-kick for even mentioning Avilo's name in their stream chats. Avilo doesn't stoop to their level. As for it being unsafe to disagree with him, that is patently false. If you are rude or disrespectful, you'll probably get muted, but not for simply disagreeing with him. Funny, because i got banned/timed out on his chat for : -Mentionning my 2 years old guide (just in order to tell someone else while giving tips i had experience on the subject, nothing more, no links, no ad, explicitly said it was outdated) -Giving constructive feedback on his play or his attitude on his chat and on his stream thread -Telling him he was wrong about calling some people cheaters/hackers -Telling him every single korean using mech may have not been inspired by him -Once, simply for logging in, because i was "known as a hater" (meta-banned?). Just to say, i was a fan for a year and an active participant and supporter for months, known (as sassy herself used to say) as a cool guy giving good advices and never hating, always just being honest and never saying any bad word. After the two first incidents, i became "a known hater". You can play the "good guy" card as much as you want. I got banned simply for sharing my experiences as a mech player with people. I got banned for disagreeing with him or being honest (not rude or anything - just honest, giving him examples and solutions and keeping a cool tone). I saw people getting banned for mentioning Mario. I saw people getting banned for talking about Flash, Ty, etc playing about mech and implying their play wasn"t directly created using avilo's play.
I get it, you still hold a grudge against him primarily for using the term "Mech' it happen"
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On July 07 2014 06:59 SirPinky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 06:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:45 SirPinky wrote:On July 07 2014 06:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:07 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:01 mabla wrote:On July 07 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Removing Avilo from the featured list seems like a perfectly reasonable measure to me. It would not be the first time someone has been removed from the featured list because Teamliquid believed their content was detrimental to the site and scene. Avilo qualifies. It's not like his stream is even good enough quality to be featured anyway, I guess the ad money wasn't enough to buy a proper microphone. Good idea! And while we're at it, we can also ban all the Korean players without mic and/or camera, since their quality is surely worse than a stream with a cam and a bad mic. Their streams are objectively better from a production standpoint since Avilo is not speaking in any of them. 1.3k people disagree with you, seeing as at this very moment, his stream is ONLY his voice and 1.3k viewers think that's good enough to tune into. It's cute that you think they're tuning in because they like him. You need only read his chat, the majority of people hate him, they're there to make fun of him. If I turn on my stream right now with a static image I will get more views than Avilo. 1.3k people is not impressive. He is a circus act, the village idiot, the kind of person you put in the stocks and throw rotten fruit at. If anything he is a symptom of a diseased scene that needs a good clean-up, someone who should be left to languish in obscurity, not given pride of place on the Teamliquid frontpage. I don't think people tune into the "village idiot" to laugh at him nightly. A "side show"would get old after one night; however, he has a continuous following and averages around 800-1.3k nightly. When you say Avilo is a sympton of the scene I hope you mean the disgraceful state of Terran. People are frustrated with the race and Avilo is there to feed the masses and comfort them and identify with their frustration. Once Terran is less marginalized as a race, Avilo viewership will go down. Right now the state of Terran is helping grown his community; heck, even TL has front page articles reinforcing much of the Avilo mentality (of course the article was far more constructive and toned down, but it carried the same message). Avilo is the same as Bill Maher getting more viewership during the Bush administration or Rush Limbaugh receiving more popularity during a Democrats term. The same applies to Avilo. Kaceytron receives an average of 4,000 viewers nightly. Case closed. First off, I didn't even know who she is. I had to look her up. Second, I dont think you can compare a woman, clearly showing off her size D chest to the community, blitzed out it make-up for her obvious awaiting audience to Avilo. It is a known fact women receive significant larger viewership in the community b/c of the displaced ratio of guy-to-girl gamers. It is not to discount their ability, but I think someone would much rather see her than some 26 year old with a squeeky voice living in his parents house.
There are plenty of female streamers who do the same thing, but none as effectively as Kaceytron. The comparison between the two is obvious. People watch her for her negative reactions. They find the negativity entertaining. She is not to be praised for that, same deal with Avilo.
Anyway. WCS America is on, so about time to watch people with some talent play Starcraft
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On July 07 2014 07:00 HomeWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 06:53 Lyyna wrote:On July 07 2014 06:45 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:37 Lyyna wrote:On July 07 2014 06:30 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:27 mabla wrote:On July 07 2014 06:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:07 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:01 mabla wrote:
[quote]
Good idea!
And while we're at it, we can also ban all the Korean players without mic and/or camera, since their quality is surely worse than a stream with a cam and a bad mic. Their streams are objectively better from a production standpoint since Avilo is not speaking in any of them. 1.3k people disagree with you, seeing as at this very moment, his stream is ONLY his voice and 1.3k viewers think that's good enough to tune into. It's cute that you think they're tuning in because they like him. You need only read his chat, the majority of people hate him, they're there to make fun of him. If I turn on my stream right now with a static image I will get more views than Avilo. 1.3k people is not impressive. He is a circus act, the village idiot, the kind of person you put in the stocks and throw rotten fruit at. If anything he is a symptom of a diseased scene that needs a good clean-up, someone who should be left to languish in obscurity, not given pride of place on the Teamliquid frontpage. They turn in because he provides entertainment. Some are there because he is one of the few players, who play mech. Some are there because he whines about protoss. And some are there because they hate him. That's the same reason you would get views with that static image. People expect you to entertain them. Avilo is not the reason people stop playing the game or stop watching! Do you really think a player finishes laddering, watches avilos rant and suddenly thinks the game is broken? I think it's the other way around. He plays, thinks 'toss imba' and watches avilo. It like the end of Wol where everybody pretended the game was balanced. Then HotS can out and everybody complained about BL Infestor. Excellent point. Avilo's stream is a safe haven for anybody who has had it up to here with Terran bio, and wants to see some long drawn out mech games that last for over 60 minutes. A safe heaven.. as long as you don't remember him there is other mech players, that some of them are known, and that some of them are as good / better than him. Also, as long you agree with him, don't say anything to contradict him, and to try to argue with him, regardless of how polite or constructive you are. In short, it is a safe heaven, as long as you don't try to do anything besides actively supporting him. In Avilo's chat, you're perfectly welcome to mention other players that go mech. Funny you should bring it up though, since several other streamers auto-kick for even mentioning Avilo's name in their stream chats. Avilo doesn't stoop to their level. As for it being unsafe to disagree with him, that is patently false. If you are rude or disrespectful, you'll probably get muted, but not for simply disagreeing with him. Funny, because i got banned/timed out on his chat for : -Mentionning my 2 years old guide (just in order to tell someone else while giving tips i had experience on the subject, nothing more, no links, no ad, explicitly said it was outdated) -Giving constructive feedback on his play or his attitude on his chat and on his stream thread -Telling him he was wrong about calling some people cheaters/hackers -Telling him every single korean using mech may have not been inspired by him -Once, simply for logging in, because i was "known as a hater" (meta-banned?). Just to say, i was a fan for a year and an active participant and supporter for months, known (as sassy herself used to say) as a cool guy giving good advices and never hating, always just being honest and never saying any bad word. After the two first incidents, i became "a known hater". You can play the "good guy" card as much as you want. I got banned simply for sharing my experiences as a mech player with people. I got banned for disagreeing with him or being honest (not rude or anything - just honest, giving him examples and solutions and keeping a cool tone). I saw people getting banned for mentioning Mario. I saw people getting banned for talking about Flash, Ty, etc playing about mech and implying their play wasn"t directly created using avilo's play. I get it, you still hold a grudge against him primarily for using the term "Mech' it happen"
Actually, a friend of mine got TO'd for mentioning that i used the joke before him for my guide's title. Ahah
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On July 07 2014 06:55 ATChriz wrote:
@TotalBiscuit
I understand all your points about Avilo and how he is toxic to the community, but is it right to bash on somebody for their opinion? For how they speak? For how bad their microphone is? For how high-pitched and annoying their lisp is? Is it right to bash somebody who is a source of entertainment for many Starcraft II players?
I watch all your organized tournaments and I'm happy every time you cast and host, (The Destiny vs. Nathanias show match was awesome) but today you lost some respect points from me.
~Insignificant Sc2 Player
You my friend have hit the nail square on the head. I'm kind of shocked that someone who's a manager of a team would behave this way. I mean, gloating about getting more views than Avilo? Pretty childish if you ask me. And I clearly remember that when I was 6 years old, I made fun of a kid for talking "funny", and my folks made damn sure to drive the point home that you never make fun of the way they speak, or if they have a lisp, or anything like that. I'm pretty sure I didn't get desert for over a week for that incident.
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Shocking to see the avilo brigade trying to go on the offense instead, because there's obviously no way to actually defend avilo
well no it's not shocking really
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On July 07 2014 07:01 codonbyte wrote:
You my friend have hit the nail square on the head. I'm kind of shocked that someone who's a manager of a team would behave this way. I mean, gloating about getting more views than Avilo? Pretty childish if you ask me. And I clearly remember that when I was 6 years old, I made fun of a kid for talking "funny", and my folks made damn sure to drive the point home that you never make fun of the way they speak, or if they have a lisp, or anything like that. I'm pretty sure I didn't get desert for over a week for that incident.
As I said on Twitter and obviously holds true here, "You are being unprofessional" is the refuge of people who can't find a good reason to say "You are wrong".
I'm not concerned with your opinion on my perceived professionalism. Your obvious attempts at deflecting the issue and changing the narrative aren't impressing anyone.
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Wow TL is overrun by Avilo fanboys. I cant believe my eyes. This is really entertaining.
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On July 07 2014 07:01 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 06:59 SirPinky wrote:On July 07 2014 06:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:45 SirPinky wrote:On July 07 2014 06:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:07 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:01 mabla wrote:On July 07 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Removing Avilo from the featured list seems like a perfectly reasonable measure to me. It would not be the first time someone has been removed from the featured list because Teamliquid believed their content was detrimental to the site and scene. Avilo qualifies. It's not like his stream is even good enough quality to be featured anyway, I guess the ad money wasn't enough to buy a proper microphone. Good idea! And while we're at it, we can also ban all the Korean players without mic and/or camera, since their quality is surely worse than a stream with a cam and a bad mic. Their streams are objectively better from a production standpoint since Avilo is not speaking in any of them. 1.3k people disagree with you, seeing as at this very moment, his stream is ONLY his voice and 1.3k viewers think that's good enough to tune into. It's cute that you think they're tuning in because they like him. You need only read his chat, the majority of people hate him, they're there to make fun of him. If I turn on my stream right now with a static image I will get more views than Avilo. 1.3k people is not impressive. He is a circus act, the village idiot, the kind of person you put in the stocks and throw rotten fruit at. If anything he is a symptom of a diseased scene that needs a good clean-up, someone who should be left to languish in obscurity, not given pride of place on the Teamliquid frontpage. I don't think people tune into the "village idiot" to laugh at him nightly. A "side show"would get old after one night; however, he has a continuous following and averages around 800-1.3k nightly. When you say Avilo is a sympton of the scene I hope you mean the disgraceful state of Terran. People are frustrated with the race and Avilo is there to feed the masses and comfort them and identify with their frustration. Once Terran is less marginalized as a race, Avilo viewership will go down. Right now the state of Terran is helping grown his community; heck, even TL has front page articles reinforcing much of the Avilo mentality (of course the article was far more constructive and toned down, but it carried the same message). Avilo is the same as Bill Maher getting more viewership during the Bush administration or Rush Limbaugh receiving more popularity during a Democrats term. The same applies to Avilo. Kaceytron receives an average of 4,000 viewers nightly. Case closed. First off, I didn't even know who she is. I had to look her up. Second, I dont think you can compare a woman, clearly showing off her size D chest to the community, blitzed out it make-up for her obvious awaiting audience to Avilo. It is a known fact women receive significant larger viewership in the community b/c of the displaced ratio of guy-to-girl gamers. It is not to discount their ability, but I think someone would much rather see her than some 26 year old with a squeeky voice living in his parents house. There are plenty of female streamers who do the same thing, but none as effectively as Kaceytron. The comparison between the two is obvious. People watch her for her negative reactions. They find the negativity entertaining. She is not to be praised for that, same deal with Avilo. Anyway. WCS America is on, so about time to watch people with some talent play Starcraft
Let's hope Heart loses in the finals vs pigbaby, so you have to stay calm cause of this unnecessary stuff you did today in here <3
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On July 07 2014 07:04 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 07:01 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:59 SirPinky wrote:On July 07 2014 06:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:45 SirPinky wrote:On July 07 2014 06:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:07 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:01 mabla wrote:On July 07 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Removing Avilo from the featured list seems like a perfectly reasonable measure to me. It would not be the first time someone has been removed from the featured list because Teamliquid believed their content was detrimental to the site and scene. Avilo qualifies. It's not like his stream is even good enough quality to be featured anyway, I guess the ad money wasn't enough to buy a proper microphone. Good idea! And while we're at it, we can also ban all the Korean players without mic and/or camera, since their quality is surely worse than a stream with a cam and a bad mic. Their streams are objectively better from a production standpoint since Avilo is not speaking in any of them. 1.3k people disagree with you, seeing as at this very moment, his stream is ONLY his voice and 1.3k viewers think that's good enough to tune into. It's cute that you think they're tuning in because they like him. You need only read his chat, the majority of people hate him, they're there to make fun of him. If I turn on my stream right now with a static image I will get more views than Avilo. 1.3k people is not impressive. He is a circus act, the village idiot, the kind of person you put in the stocks and throw rotten fruit at. If anything he is a symptom of a diseased scene that needs a good clean-up, someone who should be left to languish in obscurity, not given pride of place on the Teamliquid frontpage. I don't think people tune into the "village idiot" to laugh at him nightly. A "side show"would get old after one night; however, he has a continuous following and averages around 800-1.3k nightly. When you say Avilo is a sympton of the scene I hope you mean the disgraceful state of Terran. People are frustrated with the race and Avilo is there to feed the masses and comfort them and identify with their frustration. Once Terran is less marginalized as a race, Avilo viewership will go down. Right now the state of Terran is helping grown his community; heck, even TL has front page articles reinforcing much of the Avilo mentality (of course the article was far more constructive and toned down, but it carried the same message). Avilo is the same as Bill Maher getting more viewership during the Bush administration or Rush Limbaugh receiving more popularity during a Democrats term. The same applies to Avilo. Kaceytron receives an average of 4,000 viewers nightly. Case closed. First off, I didn't even know who she is. I had to look her up. Second, I dont think you can compare a woman, clearly showing off her size D chest to the community, blitzed out it make-up for her obvious awaiting audience to Avilo. It is a known fact women receive significant larger viewership in the community b/c of the displaced ratio of guy-to-girl gamers. It is not to discount their ability, but I think someone would much rather see her than some 26 year old with a squeeky voice living in his parents house. There are plenty of female streamers who do the same thing, but none as effectively as Kaceytron. The comparison between the two is obvious. People watch her for her negative reactions. They find the negativity entertaining. She is not to be praised for that, same deal with Avilo. Anyway. WCS America is on, so about time to watch people with some talent play Starcraft Let's hope Heart loses in the finals vs pigbaby, so you have to stay calm cause of this unnecessary stuff you did today in here <3
I dont understand this insult. Please explain.
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On July 07 2014 06:53 Lyyna wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 06:45 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:37 Lyyna wrote:On July 07 2014 06:30 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:27 mabla wrote:On July 07 2014 06:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:07 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:01 mabla wrote:On July 07 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Removing Avilo from the featured list seems like a perfectly reasonable measure to me. It would not be the first time someone has been removed from the featured list because Teamliquid believed their content was detrimental to the site and scene. Avilo qualifies. It's not like his stream is even good enough quality to be featured anyway, I guess the ad money wasn't enough to buy a proper microphone. Good idea! And while we're at it, we can also ban all the Korean players without mic and/or camera, since their quality is surely worse than a stream with a cam and a bad mic. Their streams are objectively better from a production standpoint since Avilo is not speaking in any of them. 1.3k people disagree with you, seeing as at this very moment, his stream is ONLY his voice and 1.3k viewers think that's good enough to tune into. It's cute that you think they're tuning in because they like him. You need only read his chat, the majority of people hate him, they're there to make fun of him. If I turn on my stream right now with a static image I will get more views than Avilo. 1.3k people is not impressive. He is a circus act, the village idiot, the kind of person you put in the stocks and throw rotten fruit at. If anything he is a symptom of a diseased scene that needs a good clean-up, someone who should be left to languish in obscurity, not given pride of place on the Teamliquid frontpage. They turn in because he provides entertainment. Some are there because he is one of the few players, who play mech. Some are there because he whines about protoss. And some are there because they hate him. That's the same reason you would get views with that static image. People expect you to entertain them. Avilo is not the reason people stop playing the game or stop watching! Do you really think a player finishes laddering, watches avilos rant and suddenly thinks the game is broken? I think it's the other way around. He plays, thinks 'toss imba' and watches avilo. It like the end of Wol where everybody pretended the game was balanced. Then HotS can out and everybody complained about BL Infestor. Excellent point. Avilo's stream is a safe haven for anybody who has had it up to here with Terran bio, and wants to see some long drawn out mech games that last for over 60 minutes. A safe heaven.. as long as you don't remember him there is other mech players, that some of them are known, and that some of them are as good / better than him. Also, as long you agree with him, don't say anything to contradict him, and to try to argue with him, regardless of how polite or constructive you are. In short, it is a safe heaven, as long as you don't try to do anything besides actively supporting him. In Avilo's chat, you're perfectly welcome to mention other players that go mech. Funny you should bring it up though, since several other streamers auto-kick for even mentioning Avilo's name in their stream chats. Avilo doesn't stoop to their level. As for it being unsafe to disagree with him, that is patently false. If you are rude or disrespectful, you'll probably get muted, but not for simply disagreeing with him. Funny, because i got banned/timed out on his chat for : -Mentionning my 2 years old guide (just in order to tell someone else while giving tips i had experience on the subject, nothing more, no links, no ad, explicitly said it was outdated) -Giving constructive feedback on his play or his attitude on his chat and on his stream thread -Telling him he was wrong about calling some people cheaters/hackers -Telling him every single korean using mech may have not been inspired by him -Once, simply for logging in, because i was "known as a hater" (meta-banned?). Just to say, i was a fan for a year and an active participant and supporter for months, known (as sassy herself used to say) as a cool guy giving good advices and never hating, always just being honest and never saying any bad word. After the two first incidents, i became "a known hater". You can play the "good guy" card as much as you want. I got banned simply for sharing my experiences as a mech player with people. I got banned for disagreeing with him or being honest (not rude or anything - just honest, giving him examples and solutions and keeping a cool tone , and both about his play, and his attitude). I saw people getting banned for mentioning Mario or myself. I saw people getting banned for talking about Flash, Ty, etc playing about mech and implying their play wasn"t directly created using avilo's play. I saw people getting avilo'd (you know, like sending his whole fanclub to harass them) just for daring to say he isn't a code-S caliber mech god, savior of esports, creator of every single T innovations in the last 4 years.
Do you have a screenshot of the interaction? Because I watch his stream regularly, and I've never seen him ban anyone for mentioning Mario, even though mario bans viewers who mention Avilo. As for the other things you say you've been banned for, I can't really comment without seeing exactly what was said.
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Decided to watch some of avilo's stream right now. His behavior is definitely not one I'd so much as near, much less endorse. As for his playstyle... he's not making much of a case to promote mech by going raven viking. Heck, watching it only makes me want to nerf ravens. How he stands as a vanguard for mech is beyond me.
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On July 07 2014 07:06 BlueFlames wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 07:04 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 07 2014 07:01 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:59 SirPinky wrote:On July 07 2014 06:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:45 SirPinky wrote:On July 07 2014 06:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:07 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:01 mabla wrote:
[quote]
Good idea!
And while we're at it, we can also ban all the Korean players without mic and/or camera, since their quality is surely worse than a stream with a cam and a bad mic. Their streams are objectively better from a production standpoint since Avilo is not speaking in any of them. 1.3k people disagree with you, seeing as at this very moment, his stream is ONLY his voice and 1.3k viewers think that's good enough to tune into. It's cute that you think they're tuning in because they like him. You need only read his chat, the majority of people hate him, they're there to make fun of him. If I turn on my stream right now with a static image I will get more views than Avilo. 1.3k people is not impressive. He is a circus act, the village idiot, the kind of person you put in the stocks and throw rotten fruit at. If anything he is a symptom of a diseased scene that needs a good clean-up, someone who should be left to languish in obscurity, not given pride of place on the Teamliquid frontpage. I don't think people tune into the "village idiot" to laugh at him nightly. A "side show"would get old after one night; however, he has a continuous following and averages around 800-1.3k nightly. When you say Avilo is a sympton of the scene I hope you mean the disgraceful state of Terran. People are frustrated with the race and Avilo is there to feed the masses and comfort them and identify with their frustration. Once Terran is less marginalized as a race, Avilo viewership will go down. Right now the state of Terran is helping grown his community; heck, even TL has front page articles reinforcing much of the Avilo mentality (of course the article was far more constructive and toned down, but it carried the same message). Avilo is the same as Bill Maher getting more viewership during the Bush administration or Rush Limbaugh receiving more popularity during a Democrats term. The same applies to Avilo. Kaceytron receives an average of 4,000 viewers nightly. Case closed. First off, I didn't even know who she is. I had to look her up. Second, I dont think you can compare a woman, clearly showing off her size D chest to the community, blitzed out it make-up for her obvious awaiting audience to Avilo. It is a known fact women receive significant larger viewership in the community b/c of the displaced ratio of guy-to-girl gamers. It is not to discount their ability, but I think someone would much rather see her than some 26 year old with a squeeky voice living in his parents house. There are plenty of female streamers who do the same thing, but none as effectively as Kaceytron. The comparison between the two is obvious. People watch her for her negative reactions. They find the negativity entertaining. She is not to be praised for that, same deal with Avilo. Anyway. WCS America is on, so about time to watch people with some talent play Starcraft Let's hope Heart loses in the finals vs pigbaby, so you have to stay calm cause of this unnecessary stuff you did today in here <3 I dont understand this insult. Please explain.
How is this an insult?
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On July 07 2014 07:04 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 07:01 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:59 SirPinky wrote:On July 07 2014 06:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:45 SirPinky wrote:On July 07 2014 06:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:07 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:01 mabla wrote:On July 07 2014 05:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Removing Avilo from the featured list seems like a perfectly reasonable measure to me. It would not be the first time someone has been removed from the featured list because Teamliquid believed their content was detrimental to the site and scene. Avilo qualifies. It's not like his stream is even good enough quality to be featured anyway, I guess the ad money wasn't enough to buy a proper microphone. Good idea! And while we're at it, we can also ban all the Korean players without mic and/or camera, since their quality is surely worse than a stream with a cam and a bad mic. Their streams are objectively better from a production standpoint since Avilo is not speaking in any of them. 1.3k people disagree with you, seeing as at this very moment, his stream is ONLY his voice and 1.3k viewers think that's good enough to tune into. It's cute that you think they're tuning in because they like him. You need only read his chat, the majority of people hate him, they're there to make fun of him. If I turn on my stream right now with a static image I will get more views than Avilo. 1.3k people is not impressive. He is a circus act, the village idiot, the kind of person you put in the stocks and throw rotten fruit at. If anything he is a symptom of a diseased scene that needs a good clean-up, someone who should be left to languish in obscurity, not given pride of place on the Teamliquid frontpage. I don't think people tune into the "village idiot" to laugh at him nightly. A "side show"would get old after one night; however, he has a continuous following and averages around 800-1.3k nightly. When you say Avilo is a sympton of the scene I hope you mean the disgraceful state of Terran. People are frustrated with the race and Avilo is there to feed the masses and comfort them and identify with their frustration. Once Terran is less marginalized as a race, Avilo viewership will go down. Right now the state of Terran is helping grown his community; heck, even TL has front page articles reinforcing much of the Avilo mentality (of course the article was far more constructive and toned down, but it carried the same message). Avilo is the same as Bill Maher getting more viewership during the Bush administration or Rush Limbaugh receiving more popularity during a Democrats term. The same applies to Avilo. Kaceytron receives an average of 4,000 viewers nightly. Case closed. First off, I didn't even know who she is. I had to look her up. Second, I dont think you can compare a woman, clearly showing off her size D chest to the community, blitzed out it make-up for her obvious awaiting audience to Avilo. It is a known fact women receive significant larger viewership in the community b/c of the displaced ratio of guy-to-girl gamers. It is not to discount their ability, but I think someone would much rather see her than some 26 year old with a squeeky voice living in his parents house. There are plenty of female streamers who do the same thing, but none as effectively as Kaceytron. The comparison between the two is obvious. People watch her for her negative reactions. They find the negativity entertaining. She is not to be praised for that, same deal with Avilo. Anyway. WCS America is on, so about time to watch people with some talent play Starcraft Let's hope Heart loses in the finals vs pigbaby, AND you have to stay calm cause of this unnecessary stuff you did today in here <3
I always found it amusing when people complained in LR threads that I act in the same way as fans of a player when they lose. As if there is no difference between being a fan of a player and being the employer of one. Just a little bit of a difference in terms of your emotional investment there 
Regardless if Pigbaby wins this tournament it's because he deserved it. His performance against Taeja was excellent.
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On July 07 2014 06:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 06:51 Big J wrote:
Just wanted to say that TB is right with all he says apart from removing avilo.
Way too many streamers behave like that very often (e.g Idra did so) and i think it would be very hard to draw the line between the occasional whine/flame that you will find everywhere (e.g. how to deal with Ret's opinions on Protoss) and the organized avilo/Idra type of behaviour.
Sadly, not everybody is as awesome as TLO, Apollo and Stephano and the only real way to reward them and get rid of toxics is zo tune into the right streams and avoid the others. It would be extremely hypocritical too, a few days ago a pretty long article was on the front page of TL, iirc
The author used statistics and references. He didn't insult the skill level of other players or call people names. He acted like an adult. Avilo doesn't do that.
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EPT
