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@TotalBiscuit
I'm just saying its wrong to bring forward Avilo's lesser qualities (bad mic, high pitched voice, implying Avilo has no skill etc) into your argument. You wouldn't want to tarnish your professionalism. As Codonbyte says, its " Pretty childish if you ask me." ;3
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On July 07 2014 07:07 Salient wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 06:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 07 2014 06:51 Big J wrote:
Just wanted to say that TB is right with all he says apart from removing avilo.
Way too many streamers behave like that very often (e.g Idra did so) and i think it would be very hard to draw the line between the occasional whine/flame that you will find everywhere (e.g. how to deal with Ret's opinions on Protoss) and the organized avilo/Idra type of behaviour.
Sadly, not everybody is as awesome as TLO, Apollo and Stephano and the only real way to reward them and get rid of toxics is zo tune into the right streams and avoid the others. It would be extremely hypocritical too, a few days ago a pretty long article was on the front page of TL, iirc  The author used statistics and references. He didn't insult the skill level of other players or call people names. He acted like an adult. Avilo doesn't do that.
"B-B-B-B-B-BUT AVILO IS THE ONLY PERSON TO SAY THESE THINGS, EVERYONE ELSE IS SILENT." - An Avilo fan
No, Avilo is a loud, obnoxious buzzing in the ears of this discussion. All he does is interfere with it. It's obvious that Protoss is in a good place right now and that changes need to be made to bring Terran up to their level, but Avilos attitude to it is completely unconstructive.
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On July 07 2014 07:06 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 07:04 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 07 2014 07:01 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:59 SirPinky wrote:On July 07 2014 06:45 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:45 SirPinky wrote:On July 07 2014 06:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:07 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:01 mabla wrote:
[quote]
Good idea!
And while we're at it, we can also ban all the Korean players without mic and/or camera, since their quality is surely worse than a stream with a cam and a bad mic. Their streams are objectively better from a production standpoint since Avilo is not speaking in any of them. 1.3k people disagree with you, seeing as at this very moment, his stream is ONLY his voice and 1.3k viewers think that's good enough to tune into. It's cute that you think they're tuning in because they like him. You need only read his chat, the majority of people hate him, they're there to make fun of him. If I turn on my stream right now with a static image I will get more views than Avilo. 1.3k people is not impressive. He is a circus act, the village idiot, the kind of person you put in the stocks and throw rotten fruit at. If anything he is a symptom of a diseased scene that needs a good clean-up, someone who should be left to languish in obscurity, not given pride of place on the Teamliquid frontpage. I don't think people tune into the "village idiot" to laugh at him nightly. A "side show"would get old after one night; however, he has a continuous following and averages around 800-1.3k nightly. When you say Avilo is a sympton of the scene I hope you mean the disgraceful state of Terran. People are frustrated with the race and Avilo is there to feed the masses and comfort them and identify with their frustration. Once Terran is less marginalized as a race, Avilo viewership will go down. Right now the state of Terran is helping grown his community; heck, even TL has front page articles reinforcing much of the Avilo mentality (of course the article was far more constructive and toned down, but it carried the same message). Avilo is the same as Bill Maher getting more viewership during the Bush administration or Rush Limbaugh receiving more popularity during a Democrats term. The same applies to Avilo. Kaceytron receives an average of 4,000 viewers nightly. Case closed. First off, I didn't even know who she is. I had to look her up. Second, I dont think you can compare a woman, clearly showing off her size D chest to the community, blitzed out it make-up for her obvious awaiting audience to Avilo. It is a known fact women receive significant larger viewership in the community b/c of the displaced ratio of guy-to-girl gamers. It is not to discount their ability, but I think someone would much rather see her than some 26 year old with a squeeky voice living in his parents house. There are plenty of female streamers who do the same thing, but none as effectively as Kaceytron. The comparison between the two is obvious. People watch her for her negative reactions. They find the negativity entertaining. She is not to be praised for that, same deal with Avilo. Anyway. WCS America is on, so about time to watch people with some talent play Starcraft Let's hope Heart loses in the finals vs pigbaby, AND you have to stay calm cause of this unnecessary stuff you did today in here <3 I always found it amusing when people complained in LR threads that I act in the same way as fans of a player when they lose. As if there is no difference between being a fan of a player and being the employer of one. Just a little bit of a difference in terms of your emotional investment there Regardless if Pigbaby wins this tournament it's because he deserved it. His performance against Taeja was excellent.
I actually compare you to avilo , not to a fan of player X.
ps: I don't want heart to lose actually 
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On July 07 2014 07:06 codonbyte wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 06:53 Lyyna wrote:On July 07 2014 06:45 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:37 Lyyna wrote:On July 07 2014 06:30 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:27 mabla wrote:On July 07 2014 06:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:07 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 06:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 06:01 mabla wrote:
[quote]
Good idea!
And while we're at it, we can also ban all the Korean players without mic and/or camera, since their quality is surely worse than a stream with a cam and a bad mic. Their streams are objectively better from a production standpoint since Avilo is not speaking in any of them. 1.3k people disagree with you, seeing as at this very moment, his stream is ONLY his voice and 1.3k viewers think that's good enough to tune into. It's cute that you think they're tuning in because they like him. You need only read his chat, the majority of people hate him, they're there to make fun of him. If I turn on my stream right now with a static image I will get more views than Avilo. 1.3k people is not impressive. He is a circus act, the village idiot, the kind of person you put in the stocks and throw rotten fruit at. If anything he is a symptom of a diseased scene that needs a good clean-up, someone who should be left to languish in obscurity, not given pride of place on the Teamliquid frontpage. They turn in because he provides entertainment. Some are there because he is one of the few players, who play mech. Some are there because he whines about protoss. And some are there because they hate him. That's the same reason you would get views with that static image. People expect you to entertain them. Avilo is not the reason people stop playing the game or stop watching! Do you really think a player finishes laddering, watches avilos rant and suddenly thinks the game is broken? I think it's the other way around. He plays, thinks 'toss imba' and watches avilo. It like the end of Wol where everybody pretended the game was balanced. Then HotS can out and everybody complained about BL Infestor. Excellent point. Avilo's stream is a safe haven for anybody who has had it up to here with Terran bio, and wants to see some long drawn out mech games that last for over 60 minutes. A safe heaven.. as long as you don't remember him there is other mech players, that some of them are known, and that some of them are as good / better than him. Also, as long you agree with him, don't say anything to contradict him, and to try to argue with him, regardless of how polite or constructive you are. In short, it is a safe heaven, as long as you don't try to do anything besides actively supporting him. In Avilo's chat, you're perfectly welcome to mention other players that go mech. Funny you should bring it up though, since several other streamers auto-kick for even mentioning Avilo's name in their stream chats. Avilo doesn't stoop to their level. As for it being unsafe to disagree with him, that is patently false. If you are rude or disrespectful, you'll probably get muted, but not for simply disagreeing with him. Funny, because i got banned/timed out on his chat for : -Mentionning my 2 years old guide (just in order to tell someone else while giving tips i had experience on the subject, nothing more, no links, no ad, explicitly said it was outdated) -Giving constructive feedback on his play or his attitude on his chat and on his stream thread -Telling him he was wrong about calling some people cheaters/hackers -Telling him every single korean using mech may have not been inspired by him -Once, simply for logging in, because i was "known as a hater" (meta-banned?). Just to say, i was a fan for a year and an active participant and supporter for months, known (as sassy herself used to say) as a cool guy giving good advices and never hating, always just being honest and never saying any bad word. After the two first incidents, i became "a known hater". You can play the "good guy" card as much as you want. I got banned simply for sharing my experiences as a mech player with people. I got banned for disagreeing with him or being honest (not rude or anything - just honest, giving him examples and solutions and keeping a cool tone , and both about his play, and his attitude). I saw people getting banned for mentioning Mario or myself. I saw people getting banned for talking about Flash, Ty, etc playing about mech and implying their play wasn"t directly created using avilo's play. I saw people getting avilo'd (you know, like sending his whole fanclub to harass them) just for daring to say he isn't a code-S caliber mech god, savior of esports, creator of every single T innovations in the last 4 years. Do you have a screenshot of the interaction? Because I watch his stream regularly, and I've never seen him ban anyone for mentioning Mario, even though mario bans viewers who mention Avilo. As for the other things you say you've been banned for, I can't really comment without seeing exactly what was said.
I don't keep screenshots of my bans on twitch chats - especially because i never really planned on arguing with some die-hard fanboys that their god isn't as righteous and great he tries to appears. Especially because i used to be almost one of those person. But if you want an idea of what i can say, you can easily look up for my posts in his stream thread. Just to give an idea - these are the most heated posts i made. Everything else i'm talking about was cooler. The whole tone is what is said there is extremely close (and actually, probably a bit angrier, once again) to the one used in the said incidents.
And well, even if you had seen what happened, you would just have some memory loss. A lot of people had them when i went from "cool guy supporting him" to "hater" . So don't worry, i don't mind !
And i'm here only talking about incidents personnally about me or other mech players, belittling them, trying to keep the attention away from them, etc. I could once again mentionning his constant bragging about everything involved mech/sky/terran lategame even when the best koreans in the world are involved, the constant balance whine, the fact 75% of his opponents stream/maphack, etc, etc . . .
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Y'know, Stephano plays swarm hosts in the brutally agonizing way in hopes of altering it for a less dreary design. Which is typically implied as nerfing and/or changing the swarm host and/or buffing other aspects of Zerg. This feels like avilo's mech/air equivalent, though why he would want to nerf mech/air is beyond me.
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On July 07 2014 07:08 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 07:07 Salient wrote:On July 07 2014 06:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 07 2014 06:51 Big J wrote:
Just wanted to say that TB is right with all he says apart from removing avilo.
Way too many streamers behave like that very often (e.g Idra did so) and i think it would be very hard to draw the line between the occasional whine/flame that you will find everywhere (e.g. how to deal with Ret's opinions on Protoss) and the organized avilo/Idra type of behaviour.
Sadly, not everybody is as awesome as TLO, Apollo and Stephano and the only real way to reward them and get rid of toxics is zo tune into the right streams and avoid the others. It would be extremely hypocritical too, a few days ago a pretty long article was on the front page of TL, iirc The author used statistics and references. He didn't insult the skill level of other players or call people names. He acted like an adult. Avilo doesn't do that. "B-B-B-B-B-BUT AVILO IS THE ONLY PERSON TO SAY THESE THINGS, EVERYONE ELSE IS SILENT." - An Avilo fan No, Avilo is a loud, obnoxious buzzing in the ears of this discussion. All he does is interfere with it. It's obvious that Protoss is in a good place right now and that changes need to be made to bring Terran up to their level, but Avilos attitude to it is completely unconstructive.
Yes his attitude is not constructive, that is no reason to "ban" him though.
Why do you even bother with all of this? I don't see the point, you can't be seriously on a quest to get avilo unfeatured on TL :D
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Tb!! Your baby Heartuuuuuuuuuu is playing. Googogogogo axiom champion
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Italy12246 Posts
Can everyone please calm down and stop the shitposting? Pretty please?
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On July 07 2014 07:10 Spect8rCraft wrote:
Y'know, Stephano plays swarm hosts in the brutally agonizing way in hopes of altering it for a less dreary design. Which is typically implied as nerfing and/or changing the swarm host and/or buffing other aspects of Zerg. This feels like avilo's mech/air equivalent, though why he would want to nerf mech/air is beyond me.
Comparing Avilo and Stephano ... wow. Stephano wins games with his style. Games that matter. Whatever goes around in his head at that time, you dont know.
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On July 07 2014 07:10 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 07:08 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 07:07 Salient wrote:On July 07 2014 06:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 07 2014 06:51 Big J wrote:
Just wanted to say that TB is right with all he says apart from removing avilo.
Way too many streamers behave like that very often (e.g Idra did so) and i think it would be very hard to draw the line between the occasional whine/flame that you will find everywhere (e.g. how to deal with Ret's opinions on Protoss) and the organized avilo/Idra type of behaviour.
Sadly, not everybody is as awesome as TLO, Apollo and Stephano and the only real way to reward them and get rid of toxics is zo tune into the right streams and avoid the others. It would be extremely hypocritical too, a few days ago a pretty long article was on the front page of TL, iirc The author used statistics and references. He didn't insult the skill level of other players or call people names. He acted like an adult. Avilo doesn't do that. "B-B-B-B-B-BUT AVILO IS THE ONLY PERSON TO SAY THESE THINGS, EVERYONE ELSE IS SILENT." - An Avilo fan No, Avilo is a loud, obnoxious buzzing in the ears of this discussion. All he does is interfere with it. It's obvious that Protoss is in a good place right now and that changes need to be made to bring Terran up to their level, but Avilos attitude to it is completely unconstructive. Yes his attitude is not constructive, that is no reason to "ban" him though. Why do you even bother with all of this? I don't see the point, you can't be serious on a quest to get avilo unfeatured on TL :D
He's had a bad day. Something about the pet shop/owner from where he got his dog from. There was a scuffle between the shop and his neighbors, and the results weren't pretty.
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On July 07 2014 07:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 07:01 codonbyte wrote:
You my friend have hit the nail square on the head. I'm kind of shocked that someone who's a manager of a team would behave this way. I mean, gloating about getting more views than Avilo? Pretty childish if you ask me. And I clearly remember that when I was 6 years old, I made fun of a kid for talking "funny", and my folks made damn sure to drive the point home that you never make fun of the way they speak, or if they have a lisp, or anything like that. I'm pretty sure I didn't get desert for over a week for that incident.
As I said on Twitter and obviously holds true here, "You are being unprofessional" is the refuge of people who can't find a good reason to say "You are wrong".I'm not concerned with your opinion on my perceived professionalism. Your obvious attempts at deflecting the issue and changing the narrative aren't impressing anyone.
My response as to why you are wrong was my comment about how Avilo's fans enjoy his outspoken nature and 90-minute-long games. My comment about you being unprofessional is completely unrelated to the issue of whether you are right, nor is it seeking any kind of "refuge" since I already commented on why you were wrong in a different post.
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On July 07 2014 07:14 codonbyte wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 07:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 07:01 codonbyte wrote:
You my friend have hit the nail square on the head. I'm kind of shocked that someone who's a manager of a team would behave this way. I mean, gloating about getting more views than Avilo? Pretty childish if you ask me. And I clearly remember that when I was 6 years old, I made fun of a kid for talking "funny", and my folks made damn sure to drive the point home that you never make fun of the way they speak, or if they have a lisp, or anything like that. I'm pretty sure I didn't get desert for over a week for that incident.
As I said on Twitter and obviously holds true here, "You are being unprofessional" is the refuge of people who can't find a good reason to say "You are wrong".I'm not concerned with your opinion on my perceived professionalism. Your obvious attempts at deflecting the issue and changing the narrative aren't impressing anyone. My response as to why you are wrong was my comment about how Avilo's fans enjoy his outspoken nature and 90-minute-long games. My comment about you being unprofessional is completely unrelated to the issue of whether you are right, nor is it seeking any kind of "refuge" since I already commented on why you were wrong in a different post.
Nothing that you said actually discredited my opinion that Avilo is a toxic balance-whiner, so I'm going to make the assumption at this point that you accept this and even believe that it constitutes being "outspoken" and is a feature of the stream.
In which case you agree with me, ok.
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Germany25658 Posts
On July 07 2014 07:16 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 07:14 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 07:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 07:01 codonbyte wrote:
You my friend have hit the nail square on the head. I'm kind of shocked that someone who's a manager of a team would behave this way. I mean, gloating about getting more views than Avilo? Pretty childish if you ask me. And I clearly remember that when I was 6 years old, I made fun of a kid for talking "funny", and my folks made damn sure to drive the point home that you never make fun of the way they speak, or if they have a lisp, or anything like that. I'm pretty sure I didn't get desert for over a week for that incident.
As I said on Twitter and obviously holds true here, "You are being unprofessional" is the refuge of people who can't find a good reason to say "You are wrong".I'm not concerned with your opinion on my perceived professionalism. Your obvious attempts at deflecting the issue and changing the narrative aren't impressing anyone. My response as to why you are wrong was my comment about how Avilo's fans enjoy his outspoken nature and 90-minute-long games. My comment about you being unprofessional is completely unrelated to the issue of whether you are right, nor is it seeking any kind of "refuge" since I already commented on why you were wrong in a different post. Nothing that you said actually discredited my opinion that Avilo is a toxic balance-whiner, so I'm going to make the assumption at this point that you accept this and even believe that it constitutes being "outspoken" and is a feature of the stream. In which case you agree with me, ok.
Sometimes I wonder if you secretly enjoy these arguments
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On July 07 2014 07:19 KadaverBB wrote:Sometimes I wonder if you secretly enjoy these arguments
It is good to put your opinions under scrutiny to see if they are correct, the best way to do that is to take part in an argument.
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On July 07 2014 07:20 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 07:19 KadaverBB wrote:Sometimes I wonder if you secretly enjoy these arguments It is good to put your opinions under scrutiny to see if they are correct, the best way to do that is to take part in an argument.
Actually that would only apply to an agruement in person. Over the internet, the effect is lost.
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On July 07 2014 07:20 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 07:19 KadaverBB wrote:Sometimes I wonder if you secretly enjoy these arguments It is good to put your opinions under scrutiny to see if they are correct, the best way to do that is to take part in an argument.
Do you give arguments' lessons ? i would love to take one from you
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On July 07 2014 07:16 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 07:14 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 07:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 07:01 codonbyte wrote:
You my friend have hit the nail square on the head. I'm kind of shocked that someone who's a manager of a team would behave this way. I mean, gloating about getting more views than Avilo? Pretty childish if you ask me. And I clearly remember that when I was 6 years old, I made fun of a kid for talking "funny", and my folks made damn sure to drive the point home that you never make fun of the way they speak, or if they have a lisp, or anything like that. I'm pretty sure I didn't get desert for over a week for that incident.
As I said on Twitter and obviously holds true here, "You are being unprofessional" is the refuge of people who can't find a good reason to say "You are wrong".I'm not concerned with your opinion on my perceived professionalism. Your obvious attempts at deflecting the issue and changing the narrative aren't impressing anyone. My response as to why you are wrong was my comment about how Avilo's fans enjoy his outspoken nature and 90-minute-long games. My comment about you being unprofessional is completely unrelated to the issue of whether you are right, nor is it seeking any kind of "refuge" since I already commented on why you were wrong in a different post. Nothing that you said actually discredited my opinion that Avilo is a toxic balance-whiner, so I'm going to make the assumption at this point that you accept this and even believe that it constitutes being "outspoken" and is a feature of the stream. In which case you agree with me, ok.
Actually my point was that both of our opinions are just that -- opinions, and that neither of us is right or wrong because there is no right or wrong, it's all a matter of personal preference. And that is one of the great things about this community that we are part of today, where it is possible for just about anyone to start streaming: there will never be a shortage of content to suit the preferences of just about anyone. And it is on that corny sounds-like-it-belongs-in-an-inspirational-speech-at-the-end-of-a-sitcom note that I am going to conclude this debate, because while typing this up I'm hearing Avilo's siege tanks going BOOM BOOM BOOM and his seeker missiles going eeeeeeeeeeeyyuuuuBOOOOOOOOM and I wanna watch.
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On July 07 2014 07:24 codonbyte wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2014 07:16 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 07:14 codonbyte wrote:On July 07 2014 07:03 TotalBiscuit wrote:On July 07 2014 07:01 codonbyte wrote:
You my friend have hit the nail square on the head. I'm kind of shocked that someone who's a manager of a team would behave this way. I mean, gloating about getting more views than Avilo? Pretty childish if you ask me. And I clearly remember that when I was 6 years old, I made fun of a kid for talking "funny", and my folks made damn sure to drive the point home that you never make fun of the way they speak, or if they have a lisp, or anything like that. I'm pretty sure I didn't get desert for over a week for that incident.
As I said on Twitter and obviously holds true here, "You are being unprofessional" is the refuge of people who can't find a good reason to say "You are wrong".I'm not concerned with your opinion on my perceived professionalism. Your obvious attempts at deflecting the issue and changing the narrative aren't impressing anyone. My response as to why you are wrong was my comment about how Avilo's fans enjoy his outspoken nature and 90-minute-long games. My comment about you being unprofessional is completely unrelated to the issue of whether you are right, nor is it seeking any kind of "refuge" since I already commented on why you were wrong in a different post. Nothing that you said actually discredited my opinion that Avilo is a toxic balance-whiner, so I'm going to make the assumption at this point that you accept this and even believe that it constitutes being "outspoken" and is a feature of the stream. In which case you agree with me, ok. Actually my point was that both of our opinions are just that -- opinions, and that neither of us is right or wrong because there is no right or wrong, it's all a matter of personal preference. And that is one of the great things about this community that we are part of today, where it is possible for just about anyone to start streaming: there will never be a shortage of content to suit the preferences of just about anyone. And it is on that corny sounds-like-it-belongs-in-an-inspirational-speech-at-the-end-of-a-sitcom note that I am going to conclude this debate, because while typing this up I'm hearing Avilo's siege tanks going BOOM BOOM BOOM and his seeker missiles going eeeeeeeeeeeyyuuuu BOOOOOOOOM and I wanna watch.
that he is a toxic balancer whiner isn't an opinion at this point
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EPT
