EPTYes, one player is doing great. SKT has what 7 players in Code S. Considering how strong KT is in PL, they surely have been failing "as a team" in individual competitions. They´re probably cursed.
[Code A] Group I Season 2 2014 - Page 35
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
Yes, one player is doing great. SKT has what 7 players in Code S. Considering how strong KT is in PL, they surely have been failing "as a team" in individual competitions. They´re probably cursed. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 17 2014 17:27 Destructicon wrote: Actually I'd argue TY dealt with the 2 base mutas excellently, he didn't take much damage and scored several kills on the mutas. It went down hill in the mid game though, especially when he failed to scout and punish the 4th of True. Also TY made one huge mistake, he started 2/2 super, you're supposed to start your 3/3 at like 14 or 15 mins, TY started his 2/2 at around 16. Might be amiss in my memory, I don't find True was behind as much as Wolf and Tasteless thought. But that about the 2/2 is true. TY was behind on upgrades from where he was supposed to be. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
On April 17 2014 17:17 TW wrote: What kind of responses? He should have built more mines, or make more Thors? I am tired of people saying what should Terrans do, how sloppy they were, that their micro wasn't good enough, failed at macro etc. What is a fact, is that Terrans are losing left and right. Tell me why almost no one said that True didn't play very well either, but so many people are pointing out TYs mistakes. It doesn't matter what mistakes your opponent makes if you make more mistakes then he does. TY made more mistakes. | ||
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
On April 17 2014 17:30 Flonomenalz wrote: It doesn't matter what mistakes your opponent makes if you make more mistakes then he does. TY made more mistakes. I think the frustration derives merely from expectations. People expect Ty or Flash, for that matter, to smash their opposition in GSL, after seeing great games from them in PL. When they lose to "lesser" players (who do worse in PL) like Shine and True, they´re frustrated, the games imbalanced, or too volatile. Maybe we have to accept that some players surpass others in well-prepared bo1 scenarios, only to get walked over by the same people in a bo3+ format? I mean, not everyone´s a Bbyongjwa. | ||
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Glorfindel!
Sweden1815 Posts
On April 17 2014 17:30 Flonomenalz wrote: It doesn't matter what mistakes your opponent makes if you make more mistakes then he does. TY made more mistakes. I dont want to get into a balance discussion - but you need to point out what mistakes TY did similar to True loosing like ten mutas (like 1000/1000 resources) that justifies the small errors in TYs play. I dont think TY played nowhere near perfect, but True made some really big blunders that costed him (from a Terrans point of view infinitive resources) and in the end it seemed to make no difference at all. Personally I feel the Muta-Bling-composition is reaching BL-Infestor level where everyone points out all mistakes of the Terran players. Truth is, the maps are getting so extremly big that it is incredible hard for a Bio-playing Terran to ever get far enough out on creep to seriously hurt a Zerg to do damage without being counter-harassed to death. As of now, we still have not seen a really good answer to this. Perhaps Fantasy hybrid unit comp vs Life is an execption. Personally I feel Terrans, at the highest level, needs to either play mech or they wont stand a fighting chance against the best Zerg players in the world. That or find something different in the bio-style they can work on. Flash got masscred yesterday, TY was not even close today. And these are two of the best perfoming Terrans in PL. Add do that the fact that we might end up with 4 Terrans in GSL for another season (atleast that is +1) either Terrans are playing extremly bad or they need to find new solutions or their race just aint good enought to fight at the highest level. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 17 2014 17:39 Daswollvieh wrote: I think the frustration derives merely from expectations. People expect Ty or Flash, for that matter, to smash their opposition in GSL, after seeing great games from them in PL. When they lose to "lesser" players (who do worse in PL) like Shine and True, they´re frustrated, the games imbalanced, or too volatile. Maybe we have to accept that some players surpass others in well-prepared bo1 scenarios, only to get walked over by the same people in a bo3+ format? I mean, not everyone´s a Bbyongjwa. People need to get rid of the thought Flash is a top contender, he's a code A level player and doesn't belong in Code S, however sad that may be to some people. TY is another story, he played a bit sloppily and forgot important, basic things (upgrades/scouting forth/defending bases). And lastly, I don't consider True a lesser player. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 17 2014 17:40 Glorfindel! wrote: I dont want to get into a balance discussion - but you need to point out what mistakes TY did similar to True loosing like ten mutas (like 1000/1000 resources) that justifies the small errors in TYs play. I dont think TY played nowhere near perfect, but True made some really big blunders that costed him (from a Terrans point of view infinitive resources) and in the end it seemed to make no difference at all. Personally I feel the Muta-Bling-composition is reaching BL-Infestor level where everyone points out all mistakes of the Terran players. Truth is, the maps are getting so extremly big that it is incredible hard for a Bio-playing Terran to ever get far enough out on creep to seriously hurt a Zerg to do damage without being counter-harassed to death. As of now, we still have not seen a really good answer to this. Perhaps Fantasy hybrid unit comp vs Life is an execption. Personally I feel Terrans, at the highest level, needs to either play mech or they wont stand a fighting chance against the best Zerg players in the world. The big Muta catch on marines he only lost like 6, it was not as bad as it seemed. A big part of it is that TY didn't use his better upgrade potential, failed to scout his opponents bases and fell behind on economy. He managed to get half his army stuck and lost 5 tanks and a thor far from efficiently. Those are way more costly mistakes than losing some mutalisk. Bio Terran vs Zerg might be on the weak side, but TY just lost because he played worse. | ||
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Glorfindel!
Sweden1815 Posts
On April 17 2014 17:42 SC2Toastie wrote: People need to get rid of the thought Flash is a top contender, he's a code A level player and doesn't belong in Code S, however sad that may be to some people. TY is another story, he played a bit sloppily and forgot important, basic things (upgrades/scouting forth/defending bases). And lastly, I don't consider True a lesser player. If we cannot count Flash in as contender for Code S - how many Terrans do we have left then to actually consider to be solid Code S-players? Like, how many good Korean Terrans can we actually claim is straight up better than Flash? If the logic is: Flash is not good enough for Code S. Then anyone rated below him should be good enough for Code S either. The stable Code S-players feels like.. TY (who apparently is not), Bbyong, Maru and Innovation. Supernova made it this season, but I would not count on him being there season to season anymore. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On April 17 2014 17:42 SC2Toastie wrote: People need to get rid of the thought Flash is a top contender, he's a code A level player and doesn't belong in Code S, however sad that may be to some people. TY is another story, he played a bit sloppily and forgot important, basic things (upgrades/scouting forth/defending bases). And lastly, I don't consider True a lesser player. Flash not Code S caliber? That's a joke if I ever heard one. Last season the big excuse for Terrans underperforming was "all the top tier Terrans like Taeja/Bomber/MMA/Polt are abroad, it's no wonder Korean leftover Terrans can't get into Code S!" But the reality is, those Terrans who are abroad lose to everyone. MC, Alicia, Stardust, San, Oz, Hyun, Revival, Welmu, Vortix, JYP, Patience, Hero can all consistently kill Korean Terrans. Put all those players back into the GSL system? Not a single Terran is a safe bet to get through. Not one. | ||
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RHoudini
Belgium3627 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On April 17 2014 17:44 Glorfindel! wrote: If we cannot count Flash in as contender for Code S - how many Terrans do we have left then to actually consider to be solid Code S-players? Like, how many good Korean Terrans can we actually claim is straight up better than Flash? If the logic is: Flash is not good enough for Code S. Then anyone rated below him should be good enough for Code S either. The stable Code S-players feels like.. TY (who apparently is not), Bbyong, Maru and Innovation. Supernova made it this season, but I would not count on him being there season to season anymore. Flash could compete in Code S imo, but a lot of other players could as well. Of the top of my head Terrans that are around Flash's level (or better): Maru, Bbyong, INnoVation, Taeja, Polt, Bomber, Ty, MarineKing, Fantasy, Supernova, Reality. Maybe Jjakji. The 42-45% Code A/S statistics in TvZ do bother me, but I find it hard to find real imbalance in the matchup. Especially since Proleague stats were 67% for both of the last seasons and is currently at 60%. Blame the format all you want, but at the end of the day it's still Flash and Ty wrecking the same or better(!) Zergs that they lost to in Code A. Not to mention that especially in Flash's case, he got cheesed out making terrible decisions after scouting possible and definite cheese BOs. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9175 Posts
On April 17 2014 18:26 Big J wrote: Flash could compete in Code S imo, but a lot of other players could as well. Of the top of my head Terrans that are around Flash's level (or better): Maru, Bbyong, INnoVation, Taeja, Polt, Bomber, Ty, MarineKing, Fantasy, Supernova, Reality. Maybe Jjakji. The 42-45% Code A/S statistics in TvZ do bother me, but I find it hard to find real imbalance in the matchup. Especially since Proleague stats were 67% for both of the last seasons and is currently at 60%. Blame the format all you want, but at the end of the day it's still Flash and Ty wrecking the same or better(!) Zergs that they lost to in Code A. Not to mention that especially in Flash's case, he got cheesed out making terrible decisions after scouting possible and definite cheese BOs. GTFO MKP, Fantasy, Reality and Jjakji are not Flash level. Flash and TY are top 5 Korean T's. The others aren't around the same level unless you'd consider Stork/Yonghwa as around Classic/Parting level. While being 1 game out of Code S several times isn't terrible it's less than we'd expect from their proleague results. If the format was more preparation reliant rather than these group formats with 3 potential opponents and a lot of different maps. Having set maps and opponents for group play (like the old OSL format) would probably see the proleague titans do a lot better. | ||
sharkie
Austria18725 Posts
On April 17 2014 18:35 Scarecrow wrote: GTFO MKP, Fantasy, Reality and Jjakji are not Flash level. Flash and TY are top 5 Korean T's. The others aren't around the same level unless you'd consider Stork/Yonghwa as around Classic/Parting level. While being 1 game out of Code S several times isn't terrible it's less than we'd expect from their proleague results. If the format was more preparation reliant rather than these group formats with 3 potential opponents and a lot of different maps. Having set maps and opponents for group play (like the old OSL format) would probably see the proleague titans do a lot better. Who are the other top3 Korean Ts then? | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
Terrans I would put above him; Maru, TY At least same level, probably higher; Innovation, Fantasy, Polt, Taeja (on his game), Bbyong Around the same level; Jjakji, Bomber, Supernova, MMA. Possible slightly worse; Reality, Cure I'm probably missing some and this list is obviously personal, but seriously, you simply CANNOT argue Flash is 'up there' with the best. He just is not.(yet?) His preparation from the BO1 is excellent, but I think that is partially because KT is still supporting him as their ubersuperace and as such, he gets more resources to work with than most players in Proleague. | ||
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imrusty269
United States1404 Posts
On April 17 2014 19:25 SC2Toastie wrote: Jesus, say Flash is not Code S level and all of a sudden the world explodes. Sorry guys, he's not invincible anymore. He's borderline Code S/Code A. Last week, he made some inexcusable mistakes - he makes really bad mistakes more often. His play is far from flawless. Terrans I would put above him; Maru, TY At least same level, probably higher; Innovation, Fantasy, Polt, Taeja (on his game), Bbyong Around the same level; Jjakji, Bomber, Supernova, MMA. Possible slightly worse; Reality, Cure I'm probably missing some and this list is obviously personal, but seriously, you simply CANNOT argue Flash is 'up there' with the best. He just is not.(yet?) His preparation from the BO1 is excellent, but I think that is partially because KT is still supporting him as their ubersuperace and as such, he gets more resources to work with than most players in Proleague. Looks like the conclusion from your posts is that there are 2 terran at code S level (not boderline) | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On April 17 2014 19:25 SC2Toastie wrote: Jesus, say Flash is not Code S level and all of a sudden the world explodes. Sorry guys, he's not invincible anymore. You do realize saying someone is Code S level isn't the same as saying someone is invincible right. I mean, did you watch the recent Code S finals and how much of a throw like 3 (arguably 4-5) out of 7 matches were? The Code S finalists played really badly and made really stupid mistakes in some games. And I'm saying this despite the fact that a KT player won. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
The Code S finals were really close, with really clutch plays and some pretty understandable mistakes from both sides. I don't know what you guys are angry about. Just face it and deal with it - Flash isn't the best Terran around. Same goes for imrusty. Interpret my words any way you want, but don't parafrase them so you can put other words into my mouth. | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On April 17 2014 20:07 SC2Toastie wrote: I didn't say Code S players are invincible. Don't put words into my mouth. The Code S finals were really close, with really clutch plays and some pretty understandable mistakes from both sides. I don't know what you guys are angry about. Just face it and deal with it - Flash isn't the best Terran around. Same goes for imrusty. Interpret my words any way you want, but don't parafrase them so you can put other words into my mouth. I quoted you word for word in the exact same sequence as you starting your post, how's that putting words in your mouth. Code S finals had understandable mistakes, same as mistakes being made by people who don't qualify for Code S. People are pissed because you turn "not the best terran around" into "not fit to qualify for Code S". People just want to see TY/Flash in Code S so they see more of them in Bo3+ environment. I don't see anybody saying Flash is the best in any thread any more. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On April 17 2014 20:19 Caihead wrote: I quoted you word for word in the exact same sequence as you starting your post, how's that putting words in your mouth. Code S finals had understandable mistakes, same as mistakes being made by people who don't qualify for Code S. People are pissed because you turn "not the best terran around" into "not fit to qualify for Code S". People just want to see TY/Flash in Code S so they see more of them in Bo3+ environment. I don't see anybody saying Flash is the best in any thread any more. On April 17 2014 19:50 Caihead wrote: You do realize saying someone is Code S level isn't the same as saying someone is invincible right. Flash is not Code S level. Flash is not invincible. I didn't state Code S players are invincible. I just don't get the angry responses in here. | ||
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GumBa
United Kingdom31935 Posts
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