|
On March 07 2014 18:04 litlnoobs wrote:
Wow, so many butthurt boys in this thread. No wonder more women don't play this game.
First of all, I find it funny how the only people defending selendis are people with almost no posts.
Second...
How does asking for proof if someone is female causing women to not play this game? If it was just out of the blue random person, sure. But this is a female only tournament. if you put a restriction of any kind on a tournament people have the right to know for a fact a player meets the requirements. When Major used an australian SC2 account to play in a SEA only tournament you didn't hear people saying "Wow, so many butthurt mexicans in this thread. No wonder more australians don't play this game." No. People thought the player was suspicious, did some research and found evidence that it was Major, and then confronted him about it. Same goes for skill restriction tournaments. If the tournament says Plat and under, we have a right to verify that this person does not in fact have another account that is higher than that and just abusing the system to get some easy money. So stop being a white knight who is blindly defending something when all people want is a right to information they deserve to have.
|
Netherlands6181 Posts
On March 07 2014 18:19 aike wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 18:04 litlnoobs wrote:
Wow, so many butthurt boys in this thread. No wonder more women don't play this game. First of all, I find it funny how the only people defending selendis are people with almost no posts. Second... How does asking for proof if someone is female causing women to not play this game? If it was just out of the blue random person, sure. But this is a female only tournament. if you put a restriction of any kind on a tournament people have the right to know for a fact a player meets the requirements. When Major used an australian SC2 account to play in a SEA only tournament you didn't hear people saying "Wow, so many butthurt mexicans in this thread. No wonder more australians don't play this game." No. People thought the player was suspicious, did some research and found evidence that it was Major, and then confronted him about it. Same goes for skill restriction tournaments. If the tournament says Plat and under, we have a right to verify that this person does not in fact have another account that is higher than that and just abusing the system to get some easy money. So stop being a white knight who is blindly defending something when all people want is a right to information they deserve to have.
This, pretty much. (I'd gift you gold if I could)
|
Well I hope there will be another one soonish (With more screening). My internet was out for a whole week and I didn't get to play, I'm only Plat but it still woulda been fun.
|
does anyone have any idea how they verified or how they made sure it's not the verified player's brother/friend who is playing?
how about this suggestion, for those who are playing in the top 4(which has prizes), they stream with webcam to the admin/s?to female admins if the players prefer that. would that be too much to ask or too much hassle? they can borrow cams and if they're in top 4(they're that good to get there) they should be streaming anyway for more female starcraft action and exposure.
it can be annoying but it's for them anyway so they don't get cheated.
|
On March 08 2014 18:43 Levistus wrote:
does anyone have any idea how they verified or how they made sure it's not the verified player's brother/friend who is playing?
how about this suggestion, for those who are playing in the top 4(which has prizes), they stream with webcam to the admin/s?to female admins if the players prefer that. would that be too much to ask or too much hassle? they can borrow cams and if they're in top 4(they're that good to get there) they should be streaming anyway for more female starcraft action and exposure.
it can be annoying but it's for them anyway so they don't get cheated.
You need a computer and an interrnet line that can handle streaming too. But maybe you were talking skype or something ? That can be faked too.
But if admins don't say nothing (or i missed it) i'm sure they knew the she is in fact a legitimate contestant to this tournament.
|
Hi everyone, I am one of the tournament organizers, and I have been following this thread as it evolves, however I find these types of accusatory forum arguments counter productive. I do feel it is necessary to make a statement regarding this and the general atmosphere faced by female gamers in the Starcraft community. To be clear, this is my personal view as a female gamer, not an explanation of policy.
The other tournament administrators and myself did our best to verify the gender of every participant as this is obviously a concern with an event of this type. Was our system of verification 100% foolproof? absolutely not, it is a tough problem to solve given the anonymous nature of the internet and the many complications and legitimate special cases that arise. Based on the wonderful feedback in this thread, we will continue to improve upon the process, that's all we can do. There is an implicit level of trust required by the public in administrators that we strive to do the best we can. The purpose of these all female events is to connect us female gamers together and give us the opportunity to make new friends who share our passion in an environment where we can feel welcomed and safe. That is the paramount goal. Intense personal scrutiny by the public feels a lot like harassment to the one being scrutinized, that perpetuates the very thing we are trying to avoid. You are not entitled to know everything about a person. If you support this tournament and the wonderful women who participate in it, I ask you respect the privacy of the players, and trust that the administrators have the best interest of the tournament goals in mind. I thank everyone for their concerns, and suggestions as my hope is that you inquire to preserve "truth" and not simply seek scandal.
Honestly, being a female member of the Starcraft community, especially one who is actively visible (either through professional status or simply a streamer) is quite difficult at times. Many times its easier to simply just avoid interacting with people altogether, which is sad because I feel sharing a love of Starcraft with others enriches the enjoyment of the game. I stream (with camera) typically 2-3 times a week because I enjoy the feedback and support of my teammates and friends while I play. I typically have a modest 5-15 viewers, but sometimes 50+ every once in a while. I am routinely called ugly in my stream chat by strangers at least once a session, as well as the typical barrage of sexist and trolly comments. People ask me why I bother streaming because I'm obviously not talented enough to merit the support of others. Sadly, this is generally considered acceptable behavior and something I should have to put up with. I frequent the streams of the top female players to show my support and they face the same things. Welcome to the culture women have to deal with to be a part of this Starcraft community online…. and people are curious why more women aren't involved? people are curious why you haven't heard of more master's level female players? They are out there, I've met them… many chose to spend their energies improving and playing the game, rather than coping with the harassment they'd face from the community. Can you blame them?
Many of the girls who participated in Ladies of the Swarm came to me afterwards and expressed how truly grateful they were to have an opportunity to compete in a setting where they were valued and not harassed. It was something they'd never experienced, many it was their first time really socializing and networking within the SC community. Those girls are the reason I spent many many hours helping organize this event and will continue to do so in the future, hopefully with the continued support of the community.
|
On March 09 2014 00:01 FFW_Rude wrote:
You need a computer and an interrnet line that can handle streaming too. But maybe you were talking skype or something ? That can be faked too.
No need it to be 1080p. Any modern computer and internet connection can make a simple stream at low resolutions like 360p, enough to confirm that the player is not cheating. You don't even have to pay for software, you have OBS that is free.
|
On March 09 2014 01:58 ColterTV wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2014 00:01 FFW_Rude wrote:
You need a computer and an interrnet line that can handle streaming too. But maybe you were talking skype or something ? That can be faked too.
No need it to be 1080p. Any modern computer and internet connection can make a simple stream at low resolutions like 360p, enough to confirm that the player is not cheating. You don't even have to pay for software, you have OBS that is free.
I can't stream with my connexion in France. Upload is 124kb/s. It's really horrible to stream with that. 360p is not a stream. It's blurry movement 
|
@TheDarkLorax
I am not agree with what you're saying. Me and akane are both female player from team LDLC, and we are both feeling that something is wrong with this tournament.
I am personnaly, really thanksful to the organiser who spent a lot of time on this, and overall this tournament was great.
But, regarding selendis, we're not jumping to bad conclusion, we're just wondering about her, and we feel that this is normal.
I'm taking my case as an exemple, I am well aware about the female situation in starcraft II, and I decided to hide myself, as much as I was able to. So, i'm streaming, with no webcam, no micro, and I'm not posting everywhere "hey im a girl!!!" ( or thing like that.. ). But, over 4 years on this game, I had to meet people, talk with them on skype for team game, i've been coached by many people... etc...
So yes, i'm pretty sure, there are many other unknown female player out there, but for me, it's really hard to believe selendis, because no one was able to follow her progression, she apparently, have no friend in this game, no one played team game with her, no one coached her, and again, I feel that this is really covenient in this case to be mute.
Maybe this sound really mean, but, in this specific case ( and please, don't say, it's a regular case, it's really suprising, to meet selendis, who is top master protoss while no one never heard of her, which is mute, so no one can attest having ever heard her voice. ) I think, that the organisers should have gone further in their verifications.
So, yes, the tournament was great, and it's a great opportunity for female player to play between them. About verification, I don't want them to be too restrictive, I just want them to be adapted depending on the situation.
About selendis, I don't feel like there's any point to continue this discussion, it seems that she's not gonna clear any doubt people got about her, and i'm not gonna harass her for this.
|
On March 09 2014 20:18 miyako wrote:
@TheDarkLorax
About selendis, I don't feel like there's any point to continue this discussion, it seems that she's not gonna clear any doubt people got about her, and i'm not gonna harass her for this.
he won $200. and refuses to provide any verification. and someone mentioned he turned down an interview (by claiming he's mute i suppose?). i dislike the way this is being handled
sign me and my friends up for lots 3 (i'm a guy). i'm mute too. heres my sister's passport for verification. ill tell my friends to use their mothers passport so they can register
i think skype verification at the very least should have be met.
|
@miyako - "because no one was able to follow her progression, she apparently, have no friend in this game, no one played team game with her, no one coached her". I see you've made your research. Thorough job, well done.
"I feel that this is really covenient in this case to be mute" - Yes, it was a very inconvenient 'choice' she made, poor timing of sorts, she should have never opted to be mute, so silly of her. Look at all this trouble now it caused her, worst decision she's made, like, ever. Do you see where I'm going with this?
@ asdfghqwert - "i think skype verification at the very least should have be met." Sure mate, call me, since you're a mute Skyping will work. At least you showed that your views lack any kind of logic and I thank you for that sir.
And somebody said that her supporters have "few posts". asdfghqwert - Monday, 3rd of March 2014 with three posts in this thread only? Let's play a game of spot-a-mindless-hater. I think I've already won, 10 points to Griffindor! Nerchio is it? Naughty you and your antics, you rascal.
@TheDarkLorax - finally a voice of reason from an organisers point of view. Not that it'll change anything apparently but still a sight for sore eyes.
|
he won $200. and refuses to provide any verification. and someone mentioned he turned down an interview (by claiming he's mute i suppose?). i dislike the way this is being handled
I feel the same, but i also feel that continuing talking about this wont lead to anything good, maybe we're wrong, maybe not, but we cannot do anything about this, and I have to admit, that even if the organiser could have gone further in their verification, it might be really difficult to verify the gender of someone online.
@caleb3
I indeed know, if she's actually really mute, that she did not choose it. But, in this case, again, she should have expected this reaction from people who doesn't know her.
I'm assuming what i wrotte, since no one here can actually confirm she's a woman. Can you? Did you see her in real life? Or anything like this?
And, I think asdfghqwert was talking about webcam call with skype.
edit : i'm done with this thread, seriously, this is ridiculous. This person is mute, can't you understand, that in a "female only tournament" considering every previous "mistake made before" (i'm thinking about veralynn etc.. ) that this can be suspicious, especially when this person, won the tournament, and no one never heard of her before?
I won't answer anymore, i'm sick of this.
|
I don't find this dialog particularly productive, and the tendency for sensationalistic comments online honestly is not a good use of anyone's time. This will be the last time I comment on this thread.
What's done is done. Whether or not people agree with the decisions that were made by the admins of the tournament or not is not going to reverse those decisions. If people feel wronged or slighted by this, I apologize, but that is how things work. Admins make decisions using their best judgement based upon all the information they have available (information which everyone is not necessarily privy to nor entitled to know) and the policies which are in place prior to the event. In the posted rules for the tournament it states "Admins will run the tournament and settle any disputes. All decisions of Admins are final and non-negotiable." By entering an event players are agreeing to this condition.
That being said, is every decision made by an admin correct? are the policies put in place perfect and foolproof for all possible cases? most likely not, but the decisions are final nonetheless.
So where does one go from here? Personally, my path forward is to maintain a productive direction which learns from previous difficulties while preserving the opportunities for all players. I've kept notes on all the comments from this thread as well as conversations I've had with participants. I've spent several nights working on a document detailing thorough "verification" procedures for future competitors in all female events. I will continue to refine it based on suggestions and feedback from knowledgeable contributors until it needs to be finalized for whatever the next event will be. As this thread has clearly revealed, developing a reasonable set of guidelines for verification that treats players with dignity and respects privacy while generating conclusive evidence is a difficult matter. A matter that will undoubtedly be honed over several attempts. If people are legitimately interested in helping author a document of this nature, helping organize further all female events, or providing suggestions for improving, I invite them to contact me. Otherwise, I'll do my best to address as many people's concerns for the next time around.
|
On March 09 2014 19:17 FFW_Rude wrote:I can't stream with my connexion in France. Upload is 124kb/s. It's really horrible to stream with that. 360p is not a stream. It's blurry movement
I'm pretty sure you are the exception to the rule.. 128 up is something very very weird to see in 2014 in a developed country. And 360 is enough for the purpose, that is to see who's playing.. 360p with something like 10 fps should be enough and would not overload the player's computer
|
(actually france, got one of the worst internet in europe, i think most people in france got about this upload ( i personnally got 0.44 when i'm at my mom's house... ) since internet provider offer are like this :
8m (d) / 0.9 (u)
20m(d) / 1.2 (u)
30m(d) / 5 (u)
100m (d) / 5 (u)
100m (d) / 50m (u)
100m (d) / 100m (u)
200m (d) / 50m (u)
300m (d) / 50m (u)
1gbps (d) / (i don't know the upload speed)
most of the internet offer in france are like that, and i don't have the exact amount of people who still got the first two offer, but i think, they're still the majority in france...
but still it's enought for a video skype call if you reduce skype a bit.
|
Very cool to hear about this, shame I missed it though. 
I quite like these kind of tourneys, with high- to mid-level amateur participation. Makes the foreigner scene come alive and give people a chance to prove their worth even though they may not have recognition or even GM status to brag about yet.
Having this as a chance for women active in the SC community to test their mettle is excellent and kudos to the organizers for making it happen! :D
I hope the participants continue practicing, to imrove and that we'll see more of them in the future!
|
Well, I can definitely see where you're coming from TheDarkLorax. I think you did a fine job with this tourney and I'm sure you'll improve on the next so keep it up 
|
On March 11 2014 01:11 ColterTV wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2014 19:17 FFW_Rude wrote:I can't stream with my connexion in France. Upload is 124kb/s. It's really horrible to stream with that. 360p is not a stream. It's blurry movement I'm pretty sure you are the exception to the rule.. 128 up is something very very weird to see in 2014 in a developed country. And 360 is enough for the purpose, that is to see who's playing.. 360p with something like 10 fps should be enough and would not overload the player's computer
Welcome to France where every DSL connexion have 1024 in up... France was very quick to have DSL everywhere. But France is really slow to pass to optic fiber.
But we're offtopic
|
On March 07 2014 18:19 aike wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2014 18:04 litlnoobs wrote:
Wow, so many butthurt boys in this thread. No wonder more women don't play this game. First of all, I find it funny how the only people defending selendis are people with almost no posts. Second... How does asking for proof if someone is female causing women to not play this game? If it was just out of the blue random person, sure. But this is a female only tournament. if you put a restriction of any kind on a tournament people have the right to know for a fact a player meets the requirements. When Major used an australian SC2 account to play in a SEA only tournament you didn't hear people saying "Wow, so many butthurt mexicans in this thread. No wonder more australians don't play this game." No. People thought the player was suspicious, did some research and found evidence that it was Major, and then confronted him about it. Same goes for skill restriction tournaments. If the tournament says Plat and under, we have a right to verify that this person does not in fact have another account that is higher than that and just abusing the system to get some easy money. So stop being a white knight who is blindly defending something when all people want is a right to information they deserve to have.
Where's the evidence, then? In all of those cases, people had to prove there was a violation in the first place.
What people are asking in this thread is for the defendant to prove her innocence. No, sir, you have to prove her guilt. Why is that so hard for such a tiny brain to comprehend?
|
I'd really like to offer leaving the discussion from selendis and take all the stuff shared between the posters to avoid further discussion in the future tournaments. If this is done, I'll donate 20€ to the next Ladies of the Swarm tournament and try to help with the graphic design (as a donation as well). This is only to move on to a more productive discussion and stop breaking up such a wonderful idea.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
