The First Ladies of the Swarm tournament was sponsored by Team GdA GdA Ladies of the Swarm. They had a very succesful tournament even without a giant prize pool. The tournament now and then is for the same thing.
This is an opportunity for women show their talent and skills in a more competitive atmosphere.
We will have a look at who this is for if it is not obvious enough for you already. This tournament is for the women who play starcraft 2. This is open to all leagues. Now you may be all be wondering, "How do I sign up for this event if I am a female?". There is only one way to register which can be found here and here is the info.
Let us venture into the main purpose of the article which is the format and prize pool plus other little things. The way this will be set up is a round robin style of tournament single elimination. Right now there have been a guaranteed $220 or €146. Again this is confirmed prize pool money. If you wish to support the cause click the this donate link.
Format: Single Elimination, Bo3 matches Semi-Finals, Bo5 matches Finals, Bo7 matches preceeded by 3rd place Bo3
@ MysteryMeat1 if you are female, then you are totally welcome to participate, we'd love to have you. Just follow the instructions included on this link to verify your ID and get the password for the tourney - http://inf-gaming.net/ladiesswarm.html
@PPP I sent an invitation via Twitch to MsSpyte but have not heard anything in reply. If anyone knows a better means of contacting her, please let me know and I'll be sure she get an invitation.
Live Report Threads are threads here on SC2 Tournaments where the OP has live updated results, recommended game polls, and other helpful things for viewers. It is also a venue to discuss the games and the tournament.
On February 01 2014 12:01 lichter wrote: Live Report Threads are threads here on SC2 Tournaments where the OP has live updated results, recommended game polls, and other helpful things for viewers. It is also a venue to discuss the games and the tournament.
I checked the ladies of the swarm wiki (or 'liqui' if you want), and quite a few of the ladies don't have any content to their names. I hope the organizers can take this opportunity to link up with editors in order to add more content to liquipedia. I think it helps in promoting ladies starcraft tournaments in the future too.
I'm so proud to see my girlfriend listed as a player on TL
You know you actually found the right girl when she says : "I know the 15th of February is our anniversary but i got a tournament on this day, so we'll do it the day after". (or something along those lines)
On February 02 2014 18:21 BaneRiders wrote: I checked the ladies of the swarm wiki (or 'liqui' if you want), and quite a few of the ladies don't have any content to their names. I hope the organizers can take this opportunity to link up with editors in order to add more content to liquipedia. I think it helps in promoting ladies starcraft tournaments in the future too.
I agree with this. A short bio request should be sent out to the participants or included in the sign up sheet, if not already since we have about two weeks until the tournament. This would also give the casters a lot more talking points to fill in dead space with being that most of the participants are unknowns. Not only is this great exposure for the players but gives a well rounded and full experience for the viewership.
I definitely hope to see some returning competitors from the last Ladies of the Swarm tournament. It'd be lovely to have this is a tradition. ^^
On February 02 2014 18:21 BaneRiders wrote: I checked the ladies of the swarm wiki (or 'liqui' if you want), and quite a few of the ladies don't have any content to their names. I hope the organizers can take this opportunity to link up with editors in order to add more content to liquipedia. I think it helps in promoting ladies starcraft tournaments in the future too.
I agree with this. A short bio request should be sent out to the participants or included in the sign up sheet, if not already since we have about two weeks until the tournament. This would also give the casters a lot more talking points to fill in dead space with being that most of the participants are unknowns. Not only is this great exposure for the players but gives a well rounded and full experience for the viewership.
I definitely hope to see some returning competitors from the last Ladies of the Swarm tournament. It'd be lovely to have this is a tradition. ^^
Us at Infinity will see what we can do to make that happen and thanks for all the support
@ Gene(S)is - I have been in contact with Maddelisk and she isn't sure if she'll be able to play yet. Hopefully we'll have her as a last minute addition… after all, she is the current reigning champion of Ladies of the Swarm having won the EU cup earlier this year :-)
I am the creator of the tournament and also the general manager of the GdA team which is in partnership with Infinity Gaming team for this second edition of the Ladies of the Swarm .
I am really delighted with the enthusiasm and interest around this tournament with more that I really want to make it a quarterly event , once the EU and once on the NA . By cons it is a shame that players like MsSpyte , Aphrodite, Barbie does not want to participate , it will still give more interest in tournaments and also for spectators . MaddeLisk must return to tell me whether it will participate or not because of its lag on the NA server . Livinpink should also return to confirm his participation or not.
Emil is the Polish stream for the tournament : D and also the prize pool is outdated since it is as such:
1st = $ 200 2nd = $ 110 3rd = $ 70
Thank you all for your encouragement and monitoring of your tournament , feel free to follow our team and Infinity Gaming on facebook and twitter .
There is an overlay Ladies of the Swarm for streams and we will make a short video presentation also will happen early next week , I hope you enjoy it .
On February 07 2014 04:35 Legendk wrote: Hello everyone,
I am the creator of the tournament and also the general manager of the GdA team which is in partnership with Infinity Gaming team for this second edition of the Ladies of the Swarm .
I am really delighted with the enthusiasm and interest around this tournament with more that I really want to make it a quarterly event , once the EU and once on the NA . By cons it is a shame that players like MsSpyte , Aphrodite, Barbie does not want to participate , it will still give more interest in tournaments and also for spectators . MaddeLisk must return to tell me whether it will participate or not because of its lag on the NA server . Livinpink should also return to confirm his participation or not.
Emil is the Polish stream for the tournament : D and also the prize pool is outdated since it is as such:
1st = $ 200 2nd = $ 110 3rd = $ 70
Thank you all for your encouragement and monitoring of your tournament , feel free to follow our team and Infinity Gaming on facebook and twitter .
There is an overlay Ladies of the Swarm for streams and we will make a short video presentation also will happen early next week , I hope you enjoy it .
Ok thank you I will add the stream and update the prize pool.
On February 07 2014 08:40 ninazerg wrote: Would it be possible to play through the arcade somehow?
Edit: Or I could hijack my friend's account.
If you don't have a full account, I believe your opponent could invite any starter account to the game, but you might want check with the tourny organizers if this is valid or not
On February 02 2014 19:07 FFW_Rude wrote: I'm so proud to see my girlfriend listed as a player on TL
You know you actually found the right girl when she says : "I know the 15th of February is our anniversary but i got a tournament on this day, so we'll do it the day after". (or something along those lines)
does she have any friends that think similary ??? ^^ send them over to me xD
On February 02 2014 19:07 FFW_Rude wrote: I'm so proud to see my girlfriend listed as a player on TL
You know you actually found the right girl when she says : "I know the 15th of February is our anniversary but i got a tournament on this day, so we'll do it the day after". (or something along those lines)
Damn Rude, that sounds awesome you son of a devil.
On February 02 2014 19:07 FFW_Rude wrote: I'm so proud to see my girlfriend listed as a player on TL
You know you actually found the right girl when she says : "I know the 15th of February is our anniversary but i got a tournament on this day, so we'll do it the day after". (or something along those lines)
does she have any friends that think similary ??? ^^ send them over to me xD
By cons it is a shame that players like MsSpyte , Aphrodite, Barbie does not want to participate , it will still give more interest in tournaments and also for spectators .
Ah, did you manage to get in touch with Aphrodite and Barbie then? Last time I remember you being unable to contact them.
By cons it is a shame that players like MsSpyte , Aphrodite, Barbie does not want to participate , it will still give more interest in tournaments and also for spectators .
Ah, did you manage to get in touch with Aphrodite and Barbie then? Last time I remember you being unable to contact them.
On February 09 2014 15:08 metroid composite wrote:
On February 07 2014 04:35 Legendk wrote:
By cons it is a shame that players like MsSpyte , Aphrodite, Barbie does not want to participate , it will still give more interest in tournaments and also for spectators .
Ah, did you manage to get in touch with Aphrodite and Barbie then? Last time I remember you being unable to contact them.
At this time, no answer from them
Hm, I have a friend who's a korean SC2 translator, I'll see if I can enlist his help contacting them.
EDIT: oh, and fantastic video EDIT2: ok, tweeted at Aphrodite. If anyone knows Barbie's twitter or a way to contact her, I can try her as well.
Maddelisk is signed up. Don't think we're going to see Kaitlyn (or...the well-known Kaitlyn anyhow; there's more than one SC2 player named Kaitlyn). She hasn't responded to my messages.
Which...it feels like all the famous Canadians don't want to sign up (spyte, livinpink, kaitlyn, Ailuj, Scarlett. Well...Scarlett at least has an excuse of playing in a $20,000 tournament this weekend, so...she can be forgiven).
I don't think I'm going to represent Canada all that well this time either (stupid hearthstone beta distracting me from the important things in life like starcraft...). Oh well, I have faith in MyDarling, her record on z33k is really good.
On February 16 2014 01:10 FFW_Rude wrote: So ... no one knows the channel
9. Chat: Players are expected to communicate via the SC2 chat "Ladies of the Swarm II" on the North American server. Players must remain in this chat for the duration of their participation in tournament, failure to do so may result in disqualification
On February 16 2014 01:10 FFW_Rude wrote: So ... no one knows the channel
9. Chat: Players are expected to communicate via the SC2 chat "Ladies of the Swarm II" on the North American server. Players must remain in this chat for the duration of their participation in tournament, failure to do so may result in disqualification
Thanks. Wasn't written in the op
I don't see Lady of the swarm II on the gda website too.
I'm looking for the bracket link.
(found it. It's in the sign up link)
refreshing the brackets give something like : 33 sec, F5, 44 sec. Wait what ? Sarah connor is playing ?
On February 16 2014 07:51 BaneRiders wrote: Good entertainment so far! But yeah, would really have wanted some more on the players in Liqupedia. None of the finalists have an entry...
so you wanted a background? or more famous players?
On February 16 2014 07:51 BaneRiders wrote: Good entertainment so far! But yeah, would really have wanted some more on the players in Liqupedia. None of the finalists have an entry...
so you wanted a background? or more famous players?
I'm not sure what you mean with more famous players, I'm happy with those that are part of this, but, alas, I have no idea who the finalists are. Neither has Nerchio it seems. An entry in the wiki would have helped us both I think.
On February 16 2014 07:51 BaneRiders wrote: Good entertainment so far! But yeah, would really have wanted some more on the players in Liqupedia. None of the finalists have an entry...
so you wanted a background? or more famous players?
I'm not sure what you mean with more famous players, I'm happy with those that are part of this, but, alas, I have no idea who the finalists are. Neither has Nerchio it seems. An entry in the wiki would have helped us both I think.
so you jsut wanted a bio from them. Thanks for the feedback we will include this in our next tournament.
I'm excited to see new players in the mix. Zombie's been a favourite caster of mine for ages, so it's cool to see her play. I think I met MyDarling already through InfGaming, but it's cool to see her go far (and she plays very nonstandard, which makes for fun games). Pretty young too if memory serves, so I'm excited to see how good she is in a year or so.
And I was very impressed by Selendis. Most players, even at pro level, you watch a game casted of them, and you'll spot some micro mistakes (usually moments when they were looking away to macro). Selendis just did not make micro mistakes in the first 4 or so games I watched of her. (And then she flew an oracle over some marines so I was like "oh ok, guess she is human"). But her strategy was spot on too; she would pressure to bait the opponent into making a certain composition, but she'd be macroing behind it, and then she'd already have the perfect composition to beat the units she forced her opponent into making.
Zombie mentioned on twitter that as a player she would much prefer to have simultaneous semifinals. And...since I was pretty much a viewer by that point...I will say that even as a viewer I actually agree with her. It was taking long enough to get the gameheart games hosted, invite all the casters, and get loaded into games that I would actually prefer to have two streams going on so that I could hop between streams during the downtime on the other stream.
On February 16 2014 15:00 metroid composite wrote: Hm, one feedback I would give:
Zombie mentioned on twitter that as a player she would much prefer to have simultaneous semifinals. And...since I was pretty much a viewer by that point...I will say that even as a viewer I actually agree with her. It was taking long enough to get the gameheart games hosted, invite all the casters, and get loaded into games that I would actually prefer to have two streams going on so that I could hop between streams during the downtime on the other stream.
keep the feedback coming, but as a response we feel that if you got that far in the tournament you deserve some sort of recognition. That is what we thought but we do see your point.
- Brackets at the last minute can't help people to make a tournament thread. Because you don't know who is going to play who, and when and on what map. Also it doesn't help the players to train. They don't know the match up and they don't know players and maps. You could show bracket a week before for exemple.
- Check TL calendar. Because as everyone mentioned. IEM.
- Don't boot Millenium TV when they ask to be put in the OP. Not helping E-sports. Not helping viewer count of your tournament.
- I don't know who is this Italian/spanish caster.. but MY GOD ! HIRE HIM AT EVERY TOURNAMENT. The guys got me hyped more than a Korean casters.. And he was alone.
My feedback from my place of behind the chair of one of the players (this is MY point of view. Not the one of my GF that played).
- My GF was playing in this and... Map pool had changed. She didn't know (that's what she said to me. I can't check) but apparently first map was going to be on Frost. Doesn't matter since she faced a master first match but training time was useless.
- QueenE asked to not show BO history in first match (which is fine i don't have problem with it). It could be stated in the rules so everyone is prepared for it and doesn't have to do it before the game (that's a minor issue)
- Players couldn't find the channel where to go in your website (because there was no Ladies of the Swarm II) and no channel in LR. I was told it is for the players to not be harassed. Well... Channel name was shown on streem on player name and character code display on zeek so it doesn't matter.
- Tournament was kind of French organized but played on the NA server which is an advantage to NA players. But maybe they were matches that took place on EU after this ? 14NA players, 1SEA, 12EU players.
That is all
But this is good effort. Thx for organizing the event.
On February 16 2014 19:00 FFW_Rude wrote: - Don't boot Millenium TV when they ask to be put in the OP. Not helping E-sports. Not helping viewer count of your tournament.
If you don't know something so don't talk about it !!
Yogo just ask me to stream Ladies of the Swarm to 6pm at 7pm because after he cant' stay on air !!
On February 16 2014 19:00 FFW_Rude wrote: - Don't boot Millenium TV when they ask to be put in the OP. Not helping E-sports. Not helping viewer count of your tournament.
If you don't know something so don't talk about it !!
Yogo just ask me to stream Ladies of the Swarm to 6pm at 7pm because after he cant' stay on air !!
That's a constructive response. Thanks a lot for it. You could have posted their stream in the op with a : "only from 6 to 7pm".
There's a better way than an aggressive response to someone giving you feedbacks. It was hard enough to have information since your website wasn't up to date. But if you don't want feedback then i'm sorry.
Hi! I'd like to start with thanking all of you for making the effort of organizing these events! Really fun and motivating to have recurring tournaments for females to help encourage more women to play competitively!
However, I would like to make some suggestions for future events (hope you don't take offense,it's really not meant as being mean or disrespectful, just some constructive critiscism!)
Mappool: Now this was one of the bigger issues, playing on maps that are almost a year old, using the current laddermaps would be a LOT better idea than to use outdated maps that are not being played anymore (usually they're removed for a reason as well).
Seeding/brackets: Ok, so this time around almost every master player ended up in the same branch, whereas the lower side of the bracket didn't even have enough players for first round so almost everyone there got a W/O. This format would be OK-ish if it were double elimination. But in general implementing a seeding system would be a far better solution giving it a better player-spread making for more interesting games for casters as well as players, cramming everyone up top was just awful in general. (I know this was probably generated by the z33k system, but i really hope you consider changing this since it's quite a huge deal, making the 1-2 master player on the lower side get a pretty much guarantied 2nd place at worst.) Also as someone above suggested, being able to see brackets at least a few days prior would help a lot in terms or practice and preparation, but that's more minor compared to how the brackets actually are formed.
Ingamegroups/chat channels: It would be amazing if you had an invite only group on B-net for these events (much like dreamhack has) or making it hidden and forbidden to expose so random people don't come in and spam and trashtalk a lot like some did this time. It takes away the feeling of being safe amongst friends (which to me is 70% of the point of even being in female only tournaments, the chance to compete in a safe environment to encourage more to actually dare to compete at all.)
Prizepool: Ok, so having a big prizepool now and again is fine, like in a yearly event or such, but in general i'd prefer a smaller prizepool for female only tournaments. I'll give you a few reasons why; A: It deters impersonators to join since it's simply not worth the trouble for such a small amount of money.
B: It helps the events to stay as the encouraging "try-out" platform it should be, and won't make it so these female only events takes away the need or want for females to participate in anything but female only tournaments (if one could be comfortable of these winnings alone). In turn continuous big prizepools would increase the gap of females/males in esports because females would start getting content with playing female only tours, not feeling the need to improve more and challenge the males aswell in bigger arenas such as IEM/dreamhack/WCS etcetc, and that's where we really need to see more amazing ladies perform as well. Again, making a bigger prizepool for a one time event like a yearly finals would be completely cool though, like, let's say all the ladies of the swarm tournaments work a bit like go4sc2 where all of them leads up to a grand finals where the top 4 of each "part-tournament" leading up to it were qualified to participate, this would also give incentive for more females to participate in all of the "part-tournaments" leading up to the finals since it increases their chance of getting to the grand finals. (This would also generate a lot more hype and viewers eventually since it's a recurring thing). Then you could also have a lower prizepool in the "part-tournaments" leading up to the finals and have a slightly bigger pool in the grand finals themselves.
Verification: Something that'd be nice to implement is some form of verification of being female for these female only tours, (again, to deter impersonators, i think we all remember veralynn...). In the swedish only tournaments you need to have swedish citizenship (which is easily checked through our kind of social security number which you have to put in to participate). Now this is a little harder to tackle in your case since it's online, and females only instead of *insert country here*-only. But possibly videocall verification through skype? (with skype premium you could verify 10 people at once and you could make it so skype addy is necessary for signing up). And then a video-call interview with the winner of the whole thing at the end (also written into the "terms and conditions" for signing up so you can't decline if you win, otherwise you forfeit your winnings), not only would that give some good content where people would also get to know more of the probably pretty unknown player they've been watching play, but it would also force more effort to bypass if you're planning to impersonate a female to participate making it less likely someone would go through the trouble.
Thought I might aswell put it up here publicly for discussion (and to increase the chances of organizers seeing it). I reserve myself for possible grammar/spelling mistakes and if some details are slightly off since I was eager to put all thoughts into text right away. I wrote this from how I experienced the event and from my point of view only.
Also, It's a bit rambly and if you want me to elaborate something I'll gladly do so!
And at last but not least, keep up the great work!
I have to agree with most of what QueenE is saying!
Mappool: really should be updated and using the ladder pool is always a good option imo.
Seeding: I have to agree. The seeding or lack of seeding was really bad.
Prizepool: I agree here too. I think this was a good amount for the cup but I'd rather see the cups more often then with a higher prize pool. Like QueenE said, it's more to promote female gamers then trying to divide the scene to male and female cups. I think the prize was good for this cup tho. If you want to have a larger prize pool it would be super cool with an offline event for it in that case.
Verification: This can be a big issue. I think QueenE had good suggestions. I also remember back with Iron Lady where it was not just a skype call but you also had to talk about the game. What strategies you like etc etc. I think that would be a good addition at least for the master players. A webcam interview with the winner after would be great not just for verification but also for the streams. Not that it makes it totally safe but at least better (Verelynn...).
Server: I like that you switch between EU and NA and I hope it will continue. Some NA players have huge lag on EU and players from EU sometimes have lag to NA (I have it some days and some days are fine).
Information: I think the information was very clear and I like how easy it was to contact you and also that there was always an admin in the chat during the cup. Thanks!
Lower leagues: Iron lady used to have mousepad cups for lower leagues. When you grow and more players play in those cups I think it could be really good to remove the mouse pads from the main tournament (for example) and make smaller cups for lower leagues. When I was in plat/dia I loved those cups and gained a lot of motivation from them.
And Thanks for the cup. I think it is a really good way to promote and motivate female gamers. I hope to see more of those. And that Vasacast, it was so awesome!
I'm 100% positive to these tournaments and the amount of females starting to play competitively is amazing. I do agree what QueenE says also ;3 But everyone isn't perfect and i don't know how much experience the management is when it comes to creating tournaments. Anyhow GL
Thank you players for taking the time to be so thorough with suggestions, we'll go through them all carefully and do our best to improve upon things for the next tournament. We appreciate every suggestion! We did our best to listen and make changes up until the tournament as well (server play guidelines, etc). It is definitely a learning process for everyone and there are many details to iron out so I thank all the players for their patience and that you've taken time to provide feedback.
My comments from an admin-ing perspective for contribution to the dialog:
-One comment I'd like to make for the players is that all the rules, map pool, and other information were posted online for at least a month ahead of time. The map pool didn't change from the original posting. I urge players of any tournament to read through all the information surrounding a tournament, this is a common problem I see in many of the tournaments I help organize. It eliminates the "surprise" factor of discovering something you didn't expect the day of the tournament. In the future to improve upon this we should try to make these available in many languages to try to eliminate possible confusions.
- Implementing an invite only room is obvious, I apologize that was missed. The intent was not for the information to be public on stream, or linked, however we all know how that goes.
- The tournament was created by Team GdA who graciously chose to partner with Infinity Gaming for round two. The idea is that it will alternate between NA and EU servers each time it is held. As far as player demographics went, it was split almost 50/50 between NA players and EU players, so this seems reasonable to continue in the future.
- We had a couple last minute requests from groups to stream (like the morning of the tournament), from an organizational standpoint this is a nightmare… in the future I think we should implement a cutoff date for stream applications.
While more exposure is nice, this tournament also helps smaller teams like Team GdA and Infinity Gaming to continue to be active and make meaningful contributions within the community. In my opinion these events are to help build an international Starcraft community, to inspire the friendly competitive spirit and provide motivation for improvement, and to give players/teams/streamers/casters opportunities on a larger stage who may not have that opportunity otherwise.
I had a blast being part of this event because I got to collaborate with so many amazing people, LegendK (and Team GdA) has been a pleasure to work with and I'm very grateful that I was able to be a part of everything. I hope this event continues to grow in the future :-)
One more thing I think it would be great with a lower bracket too. Maybe it could be BO1 until semi or something (in LB) so it doesn't take too long but 2*elimination would be really good! Then you could also cut the WB semi to BO3 for example and it shouldn't even take more time.
For players like myself who usually don't advance past the first round of tournaments it is nice to be able to play more than one game so we feel included. I think ideas of making this a two day event (with double elimination) could help mitigate issues with time zone differences and give everyone an opportunity to feel included. I know many of the lower league players spend lots of time preparing and it can be demoralizing to just be out immediately. I had messages from many of the players in lower leagues saying how motivated they felt after being able to play in an event like this and even enjoy a little success. I think that is one of the goals of these events and that encouragement should be preserved.
One minor point with regards to the seeding and the brackets: In the Olympics ice hockey tournament for ladies* there were two groups initially and they put the top ranked teams in one group. Of course, teams didn't get knocked out right away, it was a round robin etc etc. However, the idea to match up players / teams that are similar in ranking is pretty good for us spectators, as we should (in theory) get to watch even and interesting matches. Of course, double elimination as QueenE pointed out, or a round robin format is almost required then.
The Italian caster is no other than the great Vasa, he's awesome
Had a blast casting this tourny, thanks for the invite once more, looking forward for future iterations
Unfortunately I missed the finals as the tourny was running for 6 hours when finals were about to start, and I had things to do and couldn't stream the final in Spanish. Sorry about that. i suggest doing something to make the tourny not last for this long, maybe 4 hours is fine but I think most of ppl involved will agree that it went for too long. Maybe play simultaneous semis -as people has suggested before- could be the answer, I'm not sure though
On February 17 2014 06:13 ColterTV wrote: The Italian caster is no other than the great Vasa, he's awesome
Had a blast casting this tourny, thanks for the invite once more, looking forward for future iterations
Unfortunately I missed the finals as the tourny was running for 6 hours when finals were about to start, and I had things to do and couldn't stream the final in Spanish. Sorry about that. i suggest doing something to make the tourny not last for this long, maybe 4 hours is fine but I think most of ppl involved will agree that it went for too long. Maybe play simultaneous semis -as people has suggested before- could be the answer, I'm not sure though
Something to consider maybe. What if there were 3 qualifiers and both finalists of each one would qualify for the monthly finals where six players would battle for the prizes? 3 weekends for qualifiers and one for the finals where the qualifiers could be shorter (bo1) making it less tiresome and still allowing the players for proper preparation. That gives you the same prizes to give away but extends the tournament WCS style allowing for more exposure to us female players.
I wanted to give some more feedback, first of all I think Bo3 on all match is a good thing. Seriously I know myself, as a master, that this is annoying to play a bo3 sometimes with some low leagues players, but usually when there's a huge league difference, game aren't "too" long.
Also I think it might be fine to do it on 2 days with a lower bracket, since this is not a weekly or monthly tournament, that would be really fun.
About verifications, I talked to legendk about this on skype. I think that the organisator shall be a lot more carefully about this. Just a talk on skype isn't enought. But, I kind of think the webcam verification is a bit too much. I think what maddelisk said about talking about the game, is a really good thing ( you can't cheat on this... ). Offline tournament, would solve the problem, but i think this might also bring a lot of trouble (this would more likely make a lot of girl unable to join, because they're not always in a team that support lan fee. )
Also I think you should ask player to send an application to you. I saw a lot of people wondering who are thoses player, so this might give you some history about them. And again, this would help verification process. Most of low league girl don't actually need to be verified more than a talk on skype, that's pointless. But, any master girl got some story behind their progression. I kind of think that girl who are master + with no team, no people who can vouch them and tell they followed their progression on starcraft, are really suspicious. You don't get promoted to master league, instantly, and it's nearly impossible to not interact with other people.
So yeah, I think verification are annoying, for players and admins, I think this should be done with more common sense, instead of asking this and this and this, just adapt your verification.
For exemple check this :
Did she participate in any other tournament? Can anyone "famous" vouch her? Is she in a pro or a semi pro team? Does she often stream? ( like QueenE for exemple )
and depending on this, add or remove some verifications.
Also I would love to have a kind of a girl league on multiple days based on point earned, instead of a single tournament. ( like a wcs format ).
On February 16 2014 22:19 QueenE wrote: Prizepool: Ok, so having a big prizepool now and again is fine, like in a yearly event or such, but in general i'd prefer a smaller prizepool for female only tournaments. I'll give you a few reasons why; A: It deters impersonators to join since it's simply not worth the trouble for such a small amount of money.
I completely agree with this.
On February 16 2014 23:00 MaddeLisk wrote: Lower leagues: Iron lady used to have mousepad cups for lower leagues. When you grow and more players play in those cups I think it could be really good to remove the mouse pads from the main tournament (for example) and make smaller cups for lower leagues. When I was in plat/dia I loved those cups and gained a lot of motivation from them.
I like the idea of a lower league cup, but it's a bit messy with MMR decay. For example, my 10 times masters friend has been consistently ranking in silver the past couple seasons (usually promoting to gold before the season ends). And he's been winning almost all of his games, he just hasn't been playing enough 1v1 to rank up more than gold. He's probably not masters level these days, but he's obviously not silver either, which makes it very hard to nail down the right league. When people ask me what league I'm in, I end up shrugging and saying I don't really know. Last time I played a number of games in one season I ended the season in platinum, but I also had a 60%-65% win ratio and was top of my division; maybe if I played a few more games I would have promoted...but then again, maybe not. Am I eligible to compete in a plat-and-under tournament?
EDIT: on the subject of having lots of tournaments, or multiple smaller qualifiers to a bigger event...here's the issue I have with this:
I actually didn't know female tournaments even existed when I started playing, so this is all based on research I've done on liquipedia but...in 2011 there were a lot of female tournaments, events every week (alternating between "ladies night" "bunny cups" etc). But gradually a lot of these events ended up getting cancelled, and often the issue would be that only 4 girls would sign up for an event, and then it would be cancelled due to not being enough players to justify the prize pool. Speaking for myself, if this were a weekly tournament, I might have chickened out this week (was playing a lot of Hearthstone, didn't really feel prepared this time). But since these events are only once every 3 months, I made myself play a bunch more SC2, studied some build orders, and signed up; I didn't want to miss it and sit out for 3 months, rusty though I may be.
Point is, if events are too frequent, you might start having attendance issues; it has happened in the past. (I think they could be a little more frequent than once every 3 months, especially if some events were lower league events, but I'd be cautious about adding a lot of events).
QueenE and Maddelisk already made some great points and I have to especially agree with the map pool and seeding.
From a caster perspective the organisation of matches was kind of chaotic, since we we're told that we would be assigned to games and then nobody ever did. There were not enough admins to create games and some did not know how to create GameHeart lobbies, which we resolved by just letting the casters host. We were not invited to the 2nd game even though we cast the first game of the series. Some players could not be reached via direct message.
Just a few things to keep in mind for the next instance.
Otherwise it was a great tournament and some really amazing games and my yearly highlight so far
I think the Cup came out great. The bracket was indeed a bit awkward and it finished late for us Eurooeans but there's always room for improvemenrs. Can I ask though, why some of you want better verification? Is this aimed at any soecific person? Surely if admins allowed everybody to play the players are verified, no? It seems some ladies are insinuating that other Ladies of the Swarm are dudes which is a bit weird as I would have thought being a minority in eSports (and not in a bad way) you would stick together and support one another not accuse of lack of sportsmanship.
On February 18 2014 04:10 caleb3 wrote: I think the Cup came out great. The bracket was indeed a bit awkward and it finished late for us Eurooeans but there's always room for improvemenrs. Can I ask though, why some of you want better verification? Is this aimed at any soecific person? Surely if admins allowed everybody to play the players are verified, no? It seems some ladies are insinuating that other Ladies of the Swarm are dudes which is a bit weird as I would have thought being a minority in eSports (and not in a bad way) you would stick together and support one another not accuse of lack of sportsmanship.
I believe the player in question is selendissc. Many players seem to think he/she is male. This is the player's twitch http://www.twitch.tv/selendissc
As quoted in his/her FAQs on channel: "Who’s this talking guy? He’s my friend but he won’t be all the time with me on teamspeak. I like playing and listening to him In the same time so you can hear him quite often. Why we can't hear you on stream? Just because i'm muted."
The streamer explains that you will never hear a female voice because she supposedly mutes herself. But you will hear a male voice occasionally because her "friend" likes to speak with her while she mutes herself. I can see why this would be strange and reason for suspicion.
Well, I can understand, that someone isn't talking or putting her/his webcam on her/his stream. I'm myselft, not putting any of thoses two thing on my stream. Some people enjoy to talk, other can feel this disturbing while playing... or simply be a bit shy. Also, as i said in my own stream description, I wan't people to watch my stream for my gameplay, not for the player playing the game. I usually got 4/5 viewers, which isn't a lot, but that also mean, I have to improve if I want more people to watch my stream.
That said, about some girls players, including selendissc, there are many strange fact. First of all, she claim to be high master, which is something REALLY uncommon for girl player. I don't feel like it's impossible, i'm just saying, that this is strange, since it's a rare thing, that no one, never heard of her.
As caleb3 said, the female esport scene is really small, that also mean, almost every girl is known, at least a bit.
Another strange fact, is that almost every master female player, are currently in a pro team or semi pro team. So, how is it possible, for someone who is potentially, the best ranked girl in the world after scarlett, to not be in a team?
So yes, i have doubt about her, because, most of the other girl I saw on the bracket are known, at least a bit, even for thoses who are diamond, or platinum. And I think a lot of people are wondering who is she. She also declined the interview at the end of the game which actually made a lot of people think that this was suspicious.
Maybe, and hopefuly, we are wrong, but don't forget, thoses are online tournament. Yes female players are a minority in esport, but that also bring many bad people faking their identity, just because they see thoses female tournament, as an easy cashprice. Also I believe there are still some totally unknown female player, and i don't want them to feel upset after what I wrote, but they have to understand, including selendissc, that everyone want a "legit" online female only tournament.
Basically selendis scooped $200 in a tournament he should not have even played in. Even Nerchio questioned selendis' gender. Nerchio from Poland probably knows more about the Polish sc2 scene and thus was able to question Selendis' playing in this tournament.
She can't speak, because she is disabled and just can't, nerchio is a troll and idiot that enjoys making her feeling bad, and he will regret very soon, anyway you should think before making a judge about someone.
Wow, this is really awesome! I'll be looking forward to these games. Hopefuly they'll put on a good show so this event will grow. We need more of this sort of thing in our community.
If she's disabled how did the tournament administrators confirm her as a female? Why does she have to mute her voice on stream if she can't talk?
Another thing that bothers me is the fact that both finalists are girls that no one has ever heard of before. Does anyone know who Selendis or Mydarling is? How many tournaments have they played in before this one and how many people can vouch for them being females? Its just strange that not one but two totally unknown females emerges from this tournament in the finals beating out well known females such as MaddeLisk, QueenE, Flo, and Livibee
@asdfghqwert - she does not mute herself. She is mute. It's a condition that makes you unable to speak. Bravo for insensivity, fail of the year and its not even the end of march... And Nerchio? Really? Show me one progamer that respects this joke of the person for the things he says. Before you waste your like searching I will save you the trouble. There's none. @miyako As much as I respect your doubts, ask yourself this - how many pictures do you have that are not like one another? I'm a dude and I have loads
To all. Instead going at her, questioning her gender, which is hurtful as hell btw, answer me this. Howcome there's no proof of her being a guy? Cause she ain't one. Just a bunch of jealous guys who she beats that use anything they can to get back at her as they have been shamed. And what bothers me the most is the fact that girls act in the same embarassing fashion. If you are a shy person who does not want to flash your cleavage nor be for whole internet to see you are a dude? And if you are disabled you are a dude even more? What is this "tits or gtfo" ? For the first time I'm embarrased to be a part of the Starcraft (not sc2 but sc in general) scene.
On March 07 2014 07:00 caleb3 wrote: @asdfghqwert - she does not mute herself. She is mute. It's a condition that makes you unable to speak. Bravo for insensivity, fail of the year and its not even the end of march... And Nerchio? Really? Show me one progamer that respects this joke of the person for the things he says. Before you waste your like searching I will save you the trouble. There's none. @miyako As much as I respect your doubts, ask yourself this - how many pictures do you have that are not like one another? I'm a dude and I have loads
To all. Instead going at her, questioning her gender, which is hurtful as hell btw, answer me this. Howcome there's no proof of her being a guy? Cause she ain't one. Just a bunch of jealous guys who she beats that use anything they can to get back at her as they have been shamed. And what bothers me the most is the fact that girls act in the same embarassing fashion. If you are a shy person who does not want to flash your cleavage nor be for whole internet to see you are a dude? And if you are disabled you are a dude even more? What is this "tits or gtfo" ? For the first time I'm embarrased to be a part of the Starcraft (not sc2 but sc in general) scene.
Not even going to point out how many times you contradict yourself in that post. Calling people out for insensitivity then going off on nerchio for no reason. Trollololo
Shes mute? That is extremely fishy. People should be questioning and getting real answers.
@miyako As much as I respect your doubts, ask yourself this - how many pictures do you have that are not like one another? I'm a dude and I have loads
Well tbh, you don't often change your face. i've changed my hair color many time, and my hair cut, but unfortunatly (or not), i may not have enough money to change the form of my face.. My doubt, are not based on only 2 pictures, I posted some details in my previous post, like the fact that most of the master girls are known, and most of the best are known since a long time and they have not always been with thoses rank. People were able to follow their progression on SC2, from dia, to master, to midmaster, and for some to high master and GM. I think that this shall not be "required" to be a famous female player, to have the right to participate in those tournament, but this sounds legitimate to me, to have doubt, about someone who is again, potentially the best female player after scarlett, whom no one never heard of her before this tournament, and who is sadly and unfortunatly muted.
"Calling people out for insensitivity then going off on nerchio for no reason. Trollololo"
You want to tell me that Nerchio is a decent person who has shone in the past with his commendable behaviour and manners that struck the viewers as just and honourable? You are having a laugh, right? Nerchio's online presence is the most detested one in current SC2. Naniwa and Idra had style, Nerchio has only bad manners and if you ever seen his antics you would know that. That's a fact, not me contradicting myself mate, get your facts right. An you wanting anserws is what? Basically you want to look at a teenage girl on webcam? There are websites for that mate.
@miyako - don't get me wrong. Doubt is undestandable. But you can't possibly expect for everybody to live the limelight and flaunt themselves "I'm a girl, I'll stream with a camera". You get one girl that instead of showing herself of actually sat down and told herslef "Right, I'm gonna do this right, first game play, then showing myself off", which for some reason seems to be unacceptable, and she made it work, cause she has done better than the already established players, who as far as I can see, are stagnant in their progress as gamers. Imagine yourself mute, does that make you more or less out in the world? How many Korean players stream with a camera? They don't care. It's in their mentality (apart from Dragon ofc;) ) to go online, play some games, get those 2k viewers and call it a day. I don't see people goin"Taeja, when face cam?". I don't see a reason for this double standard.
@Wombat_NI - As a matter of fact she won the ESL Late Cup once. And enough polish scene got beaten by her to hold a grudge. Wouldn't you, should a chick kick your arse? It's funny how the first thing that comes to mind is "she beat me = she cannot be a girl" rather than "wow, impressive for a lassie".
I very much disagree that that is the source of such suspicion, and the 'having 2 pictures that look very much like two different people' issue is bigger.
It's not like there isn't history of things like this occurring (see VeraLynn) and it is not inherently offensive to ask for some kind of proof of gender in a gender-specific tournament. If people are going around onto her stream and giving her grief and asking her to cam to prove she's a girl in that environment then I'd agree
True as this might be, adolescent boys will jump on the "face cam" bandwagon for entirely different reasons. And to be quite frank, this is how this grief started - "You're a girl? Show face. Why Not? Ok, you're a dude then" - and winning this tournament did nothing to help it, it surely made things worse. When it comes to proof she sent her national ID, with a picture, to the organisers, who approved her for this gig. So what's the problem? Does she really have to record herself sitting in front of a camera, with no ability to speak, like a pet in a shop window to get everybody to back off? On a personal level, what would satisfy yourself?
Sending a copy of her national ID with a picture to the organisers, which is information that for some reason hasn't been made clear in the last few pages and would have cleaned up this issue without the ugliness and accusations
It would have also helped if the organisers took a stand here and advised the non-believers why was she admitted which, as you said Wombat, would have cleaned the issue. She sent it in, got approved and all is good, or should be at least but for some reason isn't. It's one thing having doubts and believeing her, or me for that matter, but why are people jumping to negative conclusions remains to elude me.
You get one girl that instead of showing herself of actually sat down and told herslef "Right, I'm gonna do this right, first game play, then showing myself off"
well, I myself think the same way. But, tbh, no one is asking her to put her webcam on her stream or do such thing...
Sending a copy of her national ID with a picture to the organisers, which is information that for some reason hasn't been made clear in the last few pages and would have cleaned up this issue without the ugliness and accusations
Sorry, it's internet, everyone can ask her sister or any close friend to do this kind of thing. The fact that she's muted is really covenient in this case ( I don't want to sound harsh saying this, im not jealous or anything, if she's actually a female then it would be a great thing for the sc2 female progamming, but thoses coincidence are really suspicious. )
No one can vouch for her actually, because no one saw her offline, nor saw her on webcam, nor heard her voice. All that people got as proof here, are some national ID, which can be easily faked, and, a photo which also can be taken by someone else. As other people said before, even the "little voice chat" isn't enough.
I'm ok, in a regular case, this would have been "too much" I enjoy some privacy, and i'm a bit shy myself, so i can understand that something like a webcam speech + sending ID paper, etc would have been too much. But this, is "not" a regular case. She is poping from nowhere, as one of the best female player, she is mute, so no one, can vouch for her voice, she don't want to use her webcam ( and again, I have nothing against this, but that doesnt help ). And indeed no one saw her offline before.
She don't HAVE to stream with her webcam if she don't want to. But instead of sending her ID to the organisers, she could have played like one game on webcam, with the webcam pointed toward her keyboard, in a private conversation with an admin for exemple.
Seriously, you keep acting, as if we were harassing her for no reason, and that she's victimized by people asking for proof. But, this is not the case, I would be glad to give her my apologize if she gave any public reason to prove she's actually a female player. You probably gonna think "hey, but why would she prove anything to you?" then think about it, this is a competition, something which is public, plus this is a female only competition, people, player, viewers and organisers want it to be fair for everyone in it. Yes i can understand, that she's in a particular situation, but imo, this has to be cleared, with transparency. By registering in a public female only event, she should have expected this kind of situation, and instead of feeling hurted by thoses comment, she should just prove us that we are worrying for nothing.
No one is asking her to show any kind of cleavage on webcam, or on twitch etc, but, at least if we could have some people who could vouch for her with some solid argument that would definitly solve the case.
Agreed. It is a requirement to be a female player in this tournament. That means verification. Questioning someone's gender isn't hurtful - this is a legitimate reason to do so. It isn't about 'tits or gtfo'. If she didn't want to turn her webcam on for the general public she could at least have a private call with the organisers in which she could prove herself against her ID, and the organisers could back her up.
On March 07 2014 18:04 litlnoobs wrote: Wow, so many butthurt boys in this thread. No wonder more women don't play this game.
First of all, I find it funny how the only people defending selendis are people with almost no posts.
Second...
How does asking for proof if someone is female causing women to not play this game? If it was just out of the blue random person, sure. But this is a female only tournament. if you put a restriction of any kind on a tournament people have the right to know for a fact a player meets the requirements. When Major used an australian SC2 account to play in a SEA only tournament you didn't hear people saying "Wow, so many butthurt mexicans in this thread. No wonder more australians don't play this game." No. People thought the player was suspicious, did some research and found evidence that it was Major, and then confronted him about it. Same goes for skill restriction tournaments. If the tournament says Plat and under, we have a right to verify that this person does not in fact have another account that is higher than that and just abusing the system to get some easy money. So stop being a white knight who is blindly defending something when all people want is a right to information they deserve to have.
On March 07 2014 18:04 litlnoobs wrote: Wow, so many butthurt boys in this thread. No wonder more women don't play this game.
First of all, I find it funny how the only people defending selendis are people with almost no posts.
Second...
How does asking for proof if someone is female causing women to not play this game? If it was just out of the blue random person, sure. But this is a female only tournament. if you put a restriction of any kind on a tournament people have the right to know for a fact a player meets the requirements. When Major used an australian SC2 account to play in a SEA only tournament you didn't hear people saying "Wow, so many butthurt mexicans in this thread. No wonder more australians don't play this game." No. People thought the player was suspicious, did some research and found evidence that it was Major, and then confronted him about it. Same goes for skill restriction tournaments. If the tournament says Plat and under, we have a right to verify that this person does not in fact have another account that is higher than that and just abusing the system to get some easy money. So stop being a white knight who is blindly defending something when all people want is a right to information they deserve to have.
Well I hope there will be another one soonish (With more screening). My internet was out for a whole week and I didn't get to play, I'm only Plat but it still woulda been fun.
does anyone have any idea how they verified or how they made sure it's not the verified player's brother/friend who is playing?
how about this suggestion, for those who are playing in the top 4(which has prizes), they stream with webcam to the admin/s?to female admins if the players prefer that. would that be too much to ask or too much hassle? they can borrow cams and if they're in top 4(they're that good to get there) they should be streaming anyway for more female starcraft action and exposure.
it can be annoying but it's for them anyway so they don't get cheated.
On March 08 2014 18:43 Levistus wrote: does anyone have any idea how they verified or how they made sure it's not the verified player's brother/friend who is playing?
how about this suggestion, for those who are playing in the top 4(which has prizes), they stream with webcam to the admin/s?to female admins if the players prefer that. would that be too much to ask or too much hassle? they can borrow cams and if they're in top 4(they're that good to get there) they should be streaming anyway for more female starcraft action and exposure.
it can be annoying but it's for them anyway so they don't get cheated.
You need a computer and an interrnet line that can handle streaming too. But maybe you were talking skype or something ? That can be faked too.
But if admins don't say nothing (or i missed it) i'm sure they knew the she is in fact a legitimate contestant to this tournament.
Hi everyone, I am one of the tournament organizers, and I have been following this thread as it evolves, however I find these types of accusatory forum arguments counter productive. I do feel it is necessary to make a statement regarding this and the general atmosphere faced by female gamers in the Starcraft community. To be clear, this is my personal view as a female gamer, not an explanation of policy.
The other tournament administrators and myself did our best to verify the gender of every participant as this is obviously a concern with an event of this type. Was our system of verification 100% foolproof? absolutely not, it is a tough problem to solve given the anonymous nature of the internet and the many complications and legitimate special cases that arise. Based on the wonderful feedback in this thread, we will continue to improve upon the process, that's all we can do. There is an implicit level of trust required by the public in administrators that we strive to do the best we can. The purpose of these all female events is to connect us female gamers together and give us the opportunity to make new friends who share our passion in an environment where we can feel welcomed and safe. That is the paramount goal. Intense personal scrutiny by the public feels a lot like harassment to the one being scrutinized, that perpetuates the very thing we are trying to avoid. You are not entitled to know everything about a person. If you support this tournament and the wonderful women who participate in it, I ask you respect the privacy of the players, and trust that the administrators have the best interest of the tournament goals in mind. I thank everyone for their concerns, and suggestions as my hope is that you inquire to preserve "truth" and not simply seek scandal.
Honestly, being a female member of the Starcraft community, especially one who is actively visible (either through professional status or simply a streamer) is quite difficult at times. Many times its easier to simply just avoid interacting with people altogether, which is sad because I feel sharing a love of Starcraft with others enriches the enjoyment of the game. I stream (with camera) typically 2-3 times a week because I enjoy the feedback and support of my teammates and friends while I play. I typically have a modest 5-15 viewers, but sometimes 50+ every once in a while. I am routinely called ugly in my stream chat by strangers at least once a session, as well as the typical barrage of sexist and trolly comments. People ask me why I bother streaming because I'm obviously not talented enough to merit the support of others. Sadly, this is generally considered acceptable behavior and something I should have to put up with. I frequent the streams of the top female players to show my support and they face the same things. Welcome to the culture women have to deal with to be a part of this Starcraft community online…. and people are curious why more women aren't involved? people are curious why you haven't heard of more master's level female players? They are out there, I've met them… many chose to spend their energies improving and playing the game, rather than coping with the harassment they'd face from the community. Can you blame them?
Many of the girls who participated in Ladies of the Swarm came to me afterwards and expressed how truly grateful they were to have an opportunity to compete in a setting where they were valued and not harassed. It was something they'd never experienced, many it was their first time really socializing and networking within the SC community. Those girls are the reason I spent many many hours helping organize this event and will continue to do so in the future, hopefully with the continued support of the community.
On March 09 2014 00:01 FFW_Rude wrote: You need a computer and an interrnet line that can handle streaming too. But maybe you were talking skype or something ? That can be faked too.
No need it to be 1080p. Any modern computer and internet connection can make a simple stream at low resolutions like 360p, enough to confirm that the player is not cheating. You don't even have to pay for software, you have OBS that is free.
On March 09 2014 00:01 FFW_Rude wrote: You need a computer and an interrnet line that can handle streaming too. But maybe you were talking skype or something ? That can be faked too.
No need it to be 1080p. Any modern computer and internet connection can make a simple stream at low resolutions like 360p, enough to confirm that the player is not cheating. You don't even have to pay for software, you have OBS that is free.
I can't stream with my connexion in France. Upload is 124kb/s. It's really horrible to stream with that. 360p is not a stream. It's blurry movement
I am not agree with what you're saying. Me and akane are both female player from team LDLC, and we are both feeling that something is wrong with this tournament. I am personnaly, really thanksful to the organiser who spent a lot of time on this, and overall this tournament was great.
But, regarding selendis, we're not jumping to bad conclusion, we're just wondering about her, and we feel that this is normal. I'm taking my case as an exemple, I am well aware about the female situation in starcraft II, and I decided to hide myself, as much as I was able to. So, i'm streaming, with no webcam, no micro, and I'm not posting everywhere "hey im a girl!!!" ( or thing like that.. ). But, over 4 years on this game, I had to meet people, talk with them on skype for team game, i've been coached by many people... etc... So yes, i'm pretty sure, there are many other unknown female player out there, but for me, it's really hard to believe selendis, because no one was able to follow her progression, she apparently, have no friend in this game, no one played team game with her, no one coached her, and again, I feel that this is really covenient in this case to be mute.
Maybe this sound really mean, but, in this specific case ( and please, don't say, it's a regular case, it's really suprising, to meet selendis, who is top master protoss while no one never heard of her, which is mute, so no one can attest having ever heard her voice. ) I think, that the organisers should have gone further in their verifications.
So, yes, the tournament was great, and it's a great opportunity for female player to play between them. About verification, I don't want them to be too restrictive, I just want them to be adapted depending on the situation.
About selendis, I don't feel like there's any point to continue this discussion, it seems that she's not gonna clear any doubt people got about her, and i'm not gonna harass her for this.
On March 09 2014 20:18 miyako wrote: @TheDarkLorax
About selendis, I don't feel like there's any point to continue this discussion, it seems that she's not gonna clear any doubt people got about her, and i'm not gonna harass her for this.
he won $200. and refuses to provide any verification. and someone mentioned he turned down an interview (by claiming he's mute i suppose?). i dislike the way this is being handled
sign me and my friends up for lots 3 (i'm a guy). i'm mute too. heres my sister's passport for verification. ill tell my friends to use their mothers passport so they can register
i think skype verification at the very least should have be met.
@miyako - "because no one was able to follow her progression, she apparently, have no friend in this game, no one played team game with her, no one coached her". I see you've made your research. Thorough job, well done. "I feel that this is really covenient in this case to be mute" - Yes, it was a very inconvenient 'choice' she made, poor timing of sorts, she should have never opted to be mute, so silly of her. Look at all this trouble now it caused her, worst decision she's made, like, ever. Do you see where I'm going with this?
@ asdfghqwert - "i think skype verification at the very least should have be met." Sure mate, call me, since you're a mute Skyping will work. At least you showed that your views lack any kind of logic and I thank you for that sir.
And somebody said that her supporters have "few posts". asdfghqwert - Monday, 3rd of March 2014 with three posts in this thread only? Let's play a game of spot-a-mindless-hater. I think I've already won, 10 points to Griffindor! Nerchio is it? Naughty you and your antics, you rascal.
@TheDarkLorax - finally a voice of reason from an organisers point of view. Not that it'll change anything apparently but still a sight for sore eyes.
he won $200. and refuses to provide any verification. and someone mentioned he turned down an interview (by claiming he's mute i suppose?). i dislike the way this is being handled
I feel the same, but i also feel that continuing talking about this wont lead to anything good, maybe we're wrong, maybe not, but we cannot do anything about this, and I have to admit, that even if the organiser could have gone further in their verification, it might be really difficult to verify the gender of someone online.
@caleb3 I indeed know, if she's actually really mute, that she did not choose it. But, in this case, again, she should have expected this reaction from people who doesn't know her. I'm assuming what i wrotte, since no one here can actually confirm she's a woman. Can you? Did you see her in real life? Or anything like this?
And, I think asdfghqwert was talking about webcam call with skype.
edit : i'm done with this thread, seriously, this is ridiculous. This person is mute, can't you understand, that in a "female only tournament" considering every previous "mistake made before" (i'm thinking about veralynn etc.. ) that this can be suspicious, especially when this person, won the tournament, and no one never heard of her before?
I don't find this dialog particularly productive, and the tendency for sensationalistic comments online honestly is not a good use of anyone's time. This will be the last time I comment on this thread.
What's done is done. Whether or not people agree with the decisions that were made by the admins of the tournament or not is not going to reverse those decisions. If people feel wronged or slighted by this, I apologize, but that is how things work. Admins make decisions using their best judgement based upon all the information they have available (information which everyone is not necessarily privy to nor entitled to know) and the policies which are in place prior to the event. In the posted rules for the tournament it states "Admins will run the tournament and settle any disputes. All decisions of Admins are final and non-negotiable." By entering an event players are agreeing to this condition.
That being said, is every decision made by an admin correct? are the policies put in place perfect and foolproof for all possible cases? most likely not, but the decisions are final nonetheless.
So where does one go from here? Personally, my path forward is to maintain a productive direction which learns from previous difficulties while preserving the opportunities for all players. I've kept notes on all the comments from this thread as well as conversations I've had with participants. I've spent several nights working on a document detailing thorough "verification" procedures for future competitors in all female events. I will continue to refine it based on suggestions and feedback from knowledgeable contributors until it needs to be finalized for whatever the next event will be. As this thread has clearly revealed, developing a reasonable set of guidelines for verification that treats players with dignity and respects privacy while generating conclusive evidence is a difficult matter. A matter that will undoubtedly be honed over several attempts. If people are legitimately interested in helping author a document of this nature, helping organize further all female events, or providing suggestions for improving, I invite them to contact me. Otherwise, I'll do my best to address as many people's concerns for the next time around.
On March 09 2014 19:17 FFW_Rude wrote: I can't stream with my connexion in France. Upload is 124kb/s. It's really horrible to stream with that. 360p is not a stream. It's blurry movement
I'm pretty sure you are the exception to the rule.. 128 up is something very very weird to see in 2014 in a developed country. And 360 is enough for the purpose, that is to see who's playing.. 360p with something like 10 fps should be enough and would not overload the player's computer
(actually france, got one of the worst internet in europe, i think most people in france got about this upload ( i personnally got 0.44 when i'm at my mom's house... ) since internet provider offer are like this :
8m (d) / 0.9 (u) 20m(d) / 1.2 (u) 30m(d) / 5 (u) 100m (d) / 5 (u) 100m (d) / 50m (u) 100m (d) / 100m (u) 200m (d) / 50m (u) 300m (d) / 50m (u) 1gbps (d) / (i don't know the upload speed)
most of the internet offer in france are like that, and i don't have the exact amount of people who still got the first two offer, but i think, they're still the majority in france...
but still it's enought for a video skype call if you reduce skype a bit.
Very cool to hear about this, shame I missed it though. I quite like these kind of tourneys, with high- to mid-level amateur participation. Makes the foreigner scene come alive and give people a chance to prove their worth even though they may not have recognition or even GM status to brag about yet. Having this as a chance for women active in the SC community to test their mettle is excellent and kudos to the organizers for making it happen! :D
I hope the participants continue practicing, to imrove and that we'll see more of them in the future!
Well, I can definitely see where you're coming from TheDarkLorax. I think you did a fine job with this tourney and I'm sure you'll improve on the next so keep it up
On March 09 2014 19:17 FFW_Rude wrote: I can't stream with my connexion in France. Upload is 124kb/s. It's really horrible to stream with that. 360p is not a stream. It's blurry movement
I'm pretty sure you are the exception to the rule.. 128 up is something very very weird to see in 2014 in a developed country. And 360 is enough for the purpose, that is to see who's playing.. 360p with something like 10 fps should be enough and would not overload the player's computer
Welcome to France where every DSL connexion have 1024 in up... France was very quick to have DSL everywhere. But France is really slow to pass to optic fiber. But we're offtopic
On March 07 2014 18:04 litlnoobs wrote: Wow, so many butthurt boys in this thread. No wonder more women don't play this game.
First of all, I find it funny how the only people defending selendis are people with almost no posts.
Second...
How does asking for proof if someone is female causing women to not play this game? If it was just out of the blue random person, sure. But this is a female only tournament. if you put a restriction of any kind on a tournament people have the right to know for a fact a player meets the requirements. When Major used an australian SC2 account to play in a SEA only tournament you didn't hear people saying "Wow, so many butthurt mexicans in this thread. No wonder more australians don't play this game." No. People thought the player was suspicious, did some research and found evidence that it was Major, and then confronted him about it. Same goes for skill restriction tournaments. If the tournament says Plat and under, we have a right to verify that this person does not in fact have another account that is higher than that and just abusing the system to get some easy money. So stop being a white knight who is blindly defending something when all people want is a right to information they deserve to have.
Where's the evidence, then? In all of those cases, people had to prove there was a violation in the first place.
What people are asking in this thread is for the defendant to prove her innocence. No, sir, you have to prove her guilt. Why is that so hard for such a tiny brain to comprehend?
I'd really like to offer leaving the discussion from selendis and take all the stuff shared between the posters to avoid further discussion in the future tournaments. If this is done, I'll donate 20€ to the next Ladies of the Swarm tournament and try to help with the graphic design (as a donation as well). This is only to move on to a more productive discussion and stop breaking up such a wonderful idea.
From reading this thread I feel that the organizers really needed to be hardline with their verification methods. Either verify or don't and trust people. If someone can't be verified, they can't play.
As for someone who is mute and can't talk through verification, there are plenty of ways to verify without voice. Streaming for a few games with a webcam works. If someone can't do any verification, too bad, they can't play.
It's like having a tournament for United States and someone saying they're a US citizen but they can't show their ID or prove in any way they are American. If the situation was related to nationality, there'd be no question, you'd not let that person play. But since it's gender, and it is so awkward to force someone to "prove" their gender, you don't want to.
I think as a tournament you need to make a decision on this. Either say anyone that claims they are female can play and trust that, or verify everyone and don't be ashamed about it. Otherwise you get this situation afterwards and it's awful for everyone involved.
I'd like to say that I am sympathetic to not wanting to show your face or voice if you're a female but if you want to participate in a high-exposure tournament, that is something you'll have to choose. It is a matter of scale, if you participate in a live LAN it's entirely unreasonable to say to them "I won't play unless you don't show me on camera" because its critical to their event. And being female AND verified is critical to this event, so in my opinion you just need to verify everyone for sure. If they can't, that's too bad, and you'll just have to live with that person not playing in the tour.
On March 12 2014 20:25 Hot_Bid wrote: From reading this thread I feel that the organizers really needed to be hardline with their verification methods. Either verify or don't and trust people. If someone can't be verified, they can't play.
As for someone who is mute and can't talk through verification, there are plenty of ways to verify without voice. Streaming for a few games with a webcam works. If someone can't do any verification, too bad, they can't play.
It's like having a tournament for United States and someone saying they're a US citizen but they can't show their ID or prove in any way they are American. If the situation was related to nationality, there'd be no question, you'd not let that person play. But since it's gender, and it is so awkward to force someone to "prove" their gender, you don't want to.
I think as a tournament you need to make a decision on this. Either say anyone that claims they are female can play and trust that, or verify everyone and don't be ashamed about it. Otherwise you get this situation afterwards and it's awful for everyone involved.
I'd like to say that I am sympathetic to not wanting to show your face or voice if you're a female but if you want to participate in a high-exposure tournament, that is something you'll have to choose. It is a matter of scale, if you participate in a live LAN it's entirely unreasonable to say to them "I won't play unless you don't show me on camera" because its critical to their event. And being female AND verified is critical to this event, so in my opinion you just need to verify everyone for sure. If they can't, that's too bad, and you'll just have to live with that person not playing in the tour.
Completely agree with you here. I think the verification should be clear, thorough but not too overcomplicated. There are MANY ways to do this and I do get when people feel cheated if not everyone got a fair ''verification process''. Please be consistent, I think that's what most people ALWAYS want. ^^
On March 12 2014 20:25 Hot_Bid wrote: From reading this thread I feel that the organizers really needed to be hardline with their verification methods. Either verify or don't and trust people. If someone can't be verified, they can't play.
As for someone who is mute and can't talk through verification, there are plenty of ways to verify without voice. Streaming for a few games with a webcam works. If someone can't do any verification, too bad, they can't play.
It's like having a tournament for United States and someone saying they're a US citizen but they can't show their ID or prove in any way they are American. If the situation was related to nationality, there'd be no question, you'd not let that person play. But since it's gender, and it is so awkward to force someone to "prove" their gender, you don't want to.
I think as a tournament you need to make a decision on this. Either say anyone that claims they are female can play and trust that, or verify everyone and don't be ashamed about it. Otherwise you get this situation afterwards and it's awful for everyone involved.
I'd like to say that I am sympathetic to not wanting to show your face or voice if you're a female but if you want to participate in a high-exposure tournament, that is something you'll have to choose. It is a matter of scale, if you participate in a live LAN it's entirely unreasonable to say to them "I won't play unless you don't show me on camera" because its critical to their event. And being female AND verified is critical to this event, so in my opinion you just need to verify everyone for sure. If they can't, that's too bad, and you'll just have to live with that person not playing in the tour.
Agree 100%. The situation could have been avoided and is fairly unfortunate. I thought this tourney was a great boost for the community and to have it's integrity questioned is really a tragedy. Hopefully they'll be able to move forward and learn from this experience.
As a side note HB -- does participation in the Maxim Gamer Girl competition count as a form of verification? ^_^
i gave this settings a shot but first i get 40 fps instead of my normal 200 and then i get this pink terrain bug. im too lazy to clear it all up so im back to standard settings.
EPT![[image loading]](http://inf-gaming.net/images/LotS%20Banner%20Final.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i55.servimg.com/u/f55/12/56/49/28/banngd17.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/7/7f/Twitch_ico.png)
![[image loading]](http://i55.servimg.com/u/f55/12/56/49/28/banngd16.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i55.servimg.com/u/f55/12/56/49/28/medail10.png)
1st Place : $200 (€147)+ mouse pad![[image loading]](http://i55.servimg.com/u/f55/12/56/49/28/medail11.png)
2nd Place : $110 (€81)+ mouse pad![[image loading]](http://i55.servimg.com/u/f55/12/56/49/28/medail12.png)
3rd Place : $70 (€52) + mouse pad![[image loading]](http://i55.servimg.com/u/f55/12/56/49/28/banngd15.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/a/a3/AkilonWastes2.jpg/400px-AkilonWastes2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/5/59/Bel'Shir_Vestige_SE.jpg/400px-Bel'Shir_Vestige_SE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/5/5e/Frost_LE.jpg/400px-Frost_LE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/3/38/Habitation_Station.jpg/400px-Habitation_Station.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/e/e7/Star_Station_TE.jpg/400px-Star_Station_TE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/5/59/Whirlwind.jpg/400px-Whirlwind.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/a/a4/Yeonsu_LE.jpg/400px-Yeonsu_LE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i55.servimg.com/u/f55/12/56/49/28/banngd14.jpg)
GdA Ladies of the Swarm. They had a very succesful tournament even without a giant prize pool. The tournament now and then is for the same thing. 
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/U7YlxB0.png)
