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[WCS] Day 2 Season 2 Grand Finals 2013 - Page 113

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
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Severian
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia2052 Posts
August 24 2013 13:13 GMT
#2241
On August 24 2013 22:12 Doublemint wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2013 22:10 p14c wrote:
All Terrans are getting stomped left and right. Inno, Maru, Alive...Bomber was stomped by Rain in WGC Korea.


"terrans should win everything, not just 2 out of 3 regional WCS finals"

Terrans are the white people of SC2.
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
August 24 2013 13:13 GMT
#2242
wow Scarlett too good D: Yes I know I'm late to the party
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
August 24 2013 13:13 GMT
#2243
On August 24 2013 22:12 Douillos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2013 22:09 TheDwf wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:08 Conut wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:06 TheDwf wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:04 Raambo11 wrote:
Everyone saying go Raven. Do you realize how much gas you need to get enough ravens out to matter? Also Ravens are terribly slow and easily feedbacked.

Not to mention their only use is PDD (it's too easy to just run away against Missiles), so Protoss can simply not make stalks/tempests and you end up with flying ducks.


ravens give detection for observers so they can never have vision over your army, and in big fights hunter seeker missles are gosu and its only a few ravens man, its not like we are saying get 30 lol people just aren't even considering how to do it, just disregarding it without even trying it.

Make 1-2 Oracle(s), cast Revelation, enjoy full vision.


Man every tvp that i've followed these lasts months you're in the LR thread discretily balance whining. You really hate that match up don't you?

Every terran will be frustrated with TvP.
Every terran that lacks innovation's micro/macro/whatever will be frustrated with TvZ
Every terran that is not ForGG will be frustrated with TvT :D
Specifics of race :D
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
August 24 2013 13:13 GMT
#2244
On August 24 2013 22:12 Douillos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2013 22:09 TheDwf wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:08 Conut wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:06 TheDwf wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:04 Raambo11 wrote:
Everyone saying go Raven. Do you realize how much gas you need to get enough ravens out to matter? Also Ravens are terribly slow and easily feedbacked.

Not to mention their only use is PDD (it's too easy to just run away against Missiles), so Protoss can simply not make stalks/tempests and you end up with flying ducks.


ravens give detection for observers so they can never have vision over your army, and in big fights hunter seeker missles are gosu and its only a few ravens man, its not like we are saying get 30 lol people just aren't even considering how to do it, just disregarding it without even trying it.

Make 1-2 Oracle(s), cast Revelation, enjoy full vision.


Man every tvp that i've followed these lasts months you're in the LR thread discretily balance whining. You really hate that match up don't you?

I'm not "balance whining" at all, but whatever.
Douillos
Profile Joined May 2010
France3195 Posts
August 24 2013 13:13 GMT
#2245
On August 24 2013 22:13 Shellshock1122 wrote:
wow Scarlett too good D: Yes I know I'm late to the party



She was so dominant, great to watch!!
Look a giraffe! Look a fist!!
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3396 Posts
August 24 2013 13:13 GMT
#2246
On August 24 2013 22:11 Conut wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2013 22:08 pmp10 wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:05 Conut wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:03 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:02 DidYuhim wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:02 lolfail9001 wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:01 teddyoojo wrote:
can u actually beat collossus ht tempest in theory?

BC Raven Ghost may work :D

Just no.

After all it shall come down to your ability to get rid of Hts before they kill everything you have.

dude bcs would totally help. you could cast yamato out of the range of the hightemplar feedback, and pdd stops the tempest shots, just saying no without giving any reasons doesn't help the conversation

No because with tempests protoss range is superior.
In the long run they can spoon terran better with this composition.


they cant with PDDs , i feel its down to control man.

It is down to control but protoss needs to screw-up for PDD push to work.
It's been practiced back in beta.
Badfatpanda
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States9719 Posts
August 24 2013 13:14 GMT
#2247
On August 24 2013 22:12 Exarl25 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2013 22:10 Badfatpanda wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:07 Exarl25 wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:04 Raambo11 wrote:
Everyone saying go Raven. Do you realize how much gas you need to get enough ravens out to matter? Also Ravens are terribly slow and easily feedbacked.


Do you realize how much gas a Colossus/Tempest/HT army costs? Ravens work against this, we have seen it before. PDDs completely negate the Tempest, they fire too slowly. HT can't get close enough to Feedback if you have a large Ghost count and keep up the scans.

Know what is also excellent there? Tanks. The HT die to the Tank fire before they get in range of anything. PDD keeps everything safe from the Tempest.


You just suggested using tanks in TvP.




Drop the Tanks are useless circle jerk and actually think about the situation. A few Tanks are invaluable against that army comp.


I've meched since release. Drop the useless theorycrafting if you don't actually have experience playing these situations out.
Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy. -Beethoven | Mech isn't a build, it's a way of life. -MajOr | Charlie.Sheen: "What is sarcastic, kids who have no courage to fight?" | #TerranPride #yolo #swag -Naama after 2-0'ing MC at HSC VI
Conut
Profile Joined April 2012
Canada1026 Posts
August 24 2013 13:14 GMT
#2248
On August 24 2013 22:12 owlman wrote:
All you guys whining about tempest strenght should definitely load up an unit tester and try viking vs tempest ...Upgraded vikings will ALWAYS win vs tempest supply wise (and cost wise obviously) even without emp.
Raven is not even mandatory to fight that comp ( can be usefull if you're not bad at using them)


we are not talking about vikings vs tempest we are talking about hightemplar/tempests/stalkers/archon/zealot/colosi vs ghosts/marine/maurader/vikings/medvacs/ plus other units that should be made
Sc2 always got your back
Brian333
Profile Joined August 2010
657 Posts
August 24 2013 13:14 GMT
#2249
On August 24 2013 22:06 Viserion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2013 22:04 Brian333 wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:01 teddyoojo wrote:
can u actually beat collossus ht tempest in theory?


Easily.

Throw in a small pack of Ravens (Alive had like 3k gas banked) for PDD and the Tempests shots get stopped. Switch out the useless MM for more Ghosts and Vikings.


This kind of suggestion sound good in theory, but we actually need to see all this theorizing that goes on all the time in TL in practice or it really doesn´t work.


We've seen it in practice. Naniwa vs. Thorzain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF3L26X3RP4

Raven PDD shuts down Tempest shots. Ghosts with nukes allow you to slow push and siege (though a few siege tanks also helps). Observers get instantly killed by Vikings if they try to get close to the ghosts to detect and stop the nukes. Vikings are protected by PDDs. If you try and move in with HT to feedback, they get sniped because you basically have vision from air control and a lot of scans because you do not need minerals.
Schism
Profile Joined May 2007
Australia85 Posts
August 24 2013 13:14 GMT
#2250
That reaper falling off the cliff just made my year
Serenity now...insanity later
Green_25
Profile Joined June 2013
Great Britain696 Posts
August 24 2013 13:14 GMT
#2251
On August 24 2013 22:12 Exarl25 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2013 22:10 Badfatpanda wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:07 Exarl25 wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:04 Raambo11 wrote:
Everyone saying go Raven. Do you realize how much gas you need to get enough ravens out to matter? Also Ravens are terribly slow and easily feedbacked.


Do you realize how much gas a Colossus/Tempest/HT army costs? Ravens work against this, we have seen it before. PDDs completely negate the Tempest, they fire too slowly. HT can't get close enough to Feedback if you have a large Ghost count and keep up the scans.

Know what is also excellent there? Tanks. The HT die to the Tank fire before they get in range of anything. PDD keeps everything safe from the Tempest.


You just suggested using tanks in TvP.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hF3L26X3RP4#t=3769

Drop the Tanks are useless circle jerk and actually think about the situation. A few Tanks are invaluable against that army comp.

How so? Tanks take time to siege, you need to be constantly mobile. If you were just turtling then maybe.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
August 24 2013 13:14 GMT
#2252
On August 24 2013 22:12 Exarl25 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2013 22:10 Badfatpanda wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:07 Exarl25 wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:04 Raambo11 wrote:
Everyone saying go Raven. Do you realize how much gas you need to get enough ravens out to matter? Also Ravens are terribly slow and easily feedbacked.


Do you realize how much gas a Colossus/Tempest/HT army costs? Ravens work against this, we have seen it before. PDDs completely negate the Tempest, they fire too slowly. HT can't get close enough to Feedback if you have a large Ghost count and keep up the scans.

Know what is also excellent there? Tanks. The HT die to the Tank fire before they get in range of anything. PDD keeps everything safe from the Tempest.


You just suggested using tanks in TvP.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hF3L26X3RP4#t=3769

Drop the Tanks are useless circle jerk and actually think about the situation. A few Tanks are invaluable against that army comp.


Go to main, crush everything. Recall. Just because ThorZaIN did use it and it worked out kind of for him, doesn't mean it does work on higher levels (which First is, and especially whirlwind is completely different from akilon). we saw ThorZaIN go reapers in lategame TvP in WoL, did look good once or twice. Got crushed pretty hard the other times.-
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
August 24 2013 13:15 GMT
#2253
Yeah aLive definitely lacked the nuke play that Happy or someone with super late game TvP would've gone for.

Conut
Profile Joined April 2012
Canada1026 Posts
August 24 2013 13:16 GMT
#2254
On August 24 2013 22:14 Badfatpanda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2013 22:12 Exarl25 wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:10 Badfatpanda wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:07 Exarl25 wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:04 Raambo11 wrote:
Everyone saying go Raven. Do you realize how much gas you need to get enough ravens out to matter? Also Ravens are terribly slow and easily feedbacked.


Do you realize how much gas a Colossus/Tempest/HT army costs? Ravens work against this, we have seen it before. PDDs completely negate the Tempest, they fire too slowly. HT can't get close enough to Feedback if you have a large Ghost count and keep up the scans.

Know what is also excellent there? Tanks. The HT die to the Tank fire before they get in range of anything. PDD keeps everything safe from the Tempest.


You just suggested using tanks in TvP.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hF3L26X3RP4#t=3769

Drop the Tanks are useless circle jerk and actually think about the situation. A few Tanks are invaluable against that army comp.


I've meched since release. Drop the useless theorycrafting if you don't actually have experience playing these situations out.

as have i, tanks are pretty good with ghosts, i used to go mass tanks and i had a 80 percent win ratio in tvp, again this was in WOL not HOTS. Then again i don't think having tanks would be good with tempests on the field
Sc2 always got your back
jonich0n
Profile Joined February 2009
United States1982 Posts
August 24 2013 13:16 GMT
#2255
On August 24 2013 22:11 bo1b wrote:
2 ZERGS ENTER THE TOURNAMENT

2 ZERGS END THE TOURNAMENT

ZVZ FINALS HYPEHYPEHYPEHYPE

+ Show Spoiler +
6pool

still a lot of players I like left in this tournament but man I'd love to see that as a final. in for JD 6pool'ing Scarlett 4 times to win it
(>'.')>
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
August 24 2013 13:16 GMT
#2256
5 rax, hopefully aLive saw the light and will pull SCVs.
Glorfindel!
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden1815 Posts
August 24 2013 13:16 GMT
#2257
On August 24 2013 22:14 Brian333 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2013 22:06 Viserion wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:04 Brian333 wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:01 teddyoojo wrote:
can u actually beat collossus ht tempest in theory?


Easily.

Throw in a small pack of Ravens (Alive had like 3k gas banked) for PDD and the Tempests shots get stopped. Switch out the useless MM for more Ghosts and Vikings.


This kind of suggestion sound good in theory, but we actually need to see all this theorizing that goes on all the time in TL in practice or it really doesn´t work.


We've seen it in practice. Naniwa vs. Thorzain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF3L26X3RP4

Raven PDD shuts down Tempest shots. Ghosts with nukes allow you to slow push and siege (though a few siege tanks also helps). Observers get instantly killed by Vikings if they try to get close to the ghosts to detect and stop the nukes. Vikings are protected by PDDs. If you try and move in with HT to feedback, they get sniped because you basically have vision from air control and a lot of scans because you do not need minerals.


However you ought to be a fool if you dont see the difference between a split map that is outmined and Whirlwind with infinitive bases and attack-routes.
Those two games just cant be compared because the same situation cant occour.
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/598681/1/Glorfindel/ladder/161337#current-rank
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
August 24 2013 13:16 GMT
#2258
On August 24 2013 22:15 AxionSteel wrote:
Yeah aLive definitely lacked the nuke play that Happy or someone with super late game TvP would've gone for.


Plus he chose really wrong map to do it. Akilon and Newkirk are good, Whirlwind? Nowai.
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
Exarl25
Profile Joined November 2010
1887 Posts
August 24 2013 13:16 GMT
#2259
On August 24 2013 22:14 Badfatpanda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 24 2013 22:12 Exarl25 wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:10 Badfatpanda wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:07 Exarl25 wrote:
On August 24 2013 22:04 Raambo11 wrote:
Everyone saying go Raven. Do you realize how much gas you need to get enough ravens out to matter? Also Ravens are terribly slow and easily feedbacked.


Do you realize how much gas a Colossus/Tempest/HT army costs? Ravens work against this, we have seen it before. PDDs completely negate the Tempest, they fire too slowly. HT can't get close enough to Feedback if you have a large Ghost count and keep up the scans.

Know what is also excellent there? Tanks. The HT die to the Tank fire before they get in range of anything. PDD keeps everything safe from the Tempest.


You just suggested using tanks in TvP.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hF3L26X3RP4#t=3769

Drop the Tanks are useless circle jerk and actually think about the situation. A few Tanks are invaluable against that army comp.


I've meched since release. Drop the useless theorycrafting if you don't actually have experience playing these situations out.


It's not theorycrafting. I just linked you an in game example of it working in a pro level game. Be less stubborn. The Tanks make it impossible for the HT to get in range to Feedback the PDDs. The Tempest are completely negated. Slow push to victory.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
August 24 2013 13:16 GMT
#2260
I'll ask again because I'm starting to get really tired

can anyone take the OP from me for the rest of day 2?
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