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On August 18 2013 19:45 sparklyresidue wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:43 Fuzzmosis wrote:
Man, if only the spire upgraded into producing a siege Unit that does great against entrenched positions, like large terran ground armies. If only they would force things like retreats or pushes forward into the banelings that are struggling to connect!
Why did Brood Lords disappear? Did you see how long it took SK to get Ultras out? It's a matter of getting to Hive and then getting Greater Spire and then getting Corruptors and then buying time for those to morph into Broods. They do definitely still exist (Scarlett vs. aLive) but it's insanely hard to tech to Hive and do anything besides 3/3 and Adrenal Glands if you're under constant pressure.
Clearly the solution was to tech to Hive and make Ultralisks, which he successfully did. Then exploded.
Soulkey appears to make 3 units as Zerg. Now I can't deny that when he tech switched he completely died. Maybe once you press back a bit, he could work on not over extending and use the time to actually tech up. Maybe when he's Mutalisk harassing, he can send one out ahead of the pack to see if there are widow mines about to murder him instead of constantly risking the whole flock. Sacrifice 100/100 not 500/500 and free damage.
Maybe he needed better control. Maybe he needed a better tactic. I'm just wondering why he didn't try the unit that forces the tech switch and have almost no vulnerabilities to those mines that were also crushing him?
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On August 18 2013 19:42 Megapenthes wrote:
Soulkey outplayed Innovation so bad in that derelict watcher game.
Not really. Innovation was cruising the mid game, and when Soulkey got somewhat of an advantage chose to make more mutas to have his flock strengthened which was not a bad play and probably could've won him then game at that point. Then he somehow manages to lose his only mining hatcherie to a handfull of bio while he had a 30muta flock literally at shooting range of the marauders that sniped it. Can't see how he ouplayed him "so bad", that was a pretty damn poor play right there.
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those 'impossible holds' from soulkey came at the expense of his tech. it couldn't be done any other way; or, any tech switch at that time would mean instant loss because it would cut into his unit production.
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Oh lord the top T who is still probably better than Soulkey wins a game partly fueled to bad maps and a bad time in the metagame and people go crazy.
Even Broodwar had hard times for races, and it's not like we see foreign professionals regularly taking games off of Code A-S players like was in late WoL. To me that's the best indicator of a significant disruption of balance, and the only example I've seen is Sjow-Life which was fueled by pre-nerfed hellbats.
Soulkey could have won the game too but he blindly assumed a three base Innovation and went for a roach bane bust, greatly failed and was behind. Kept trying to do counter attacks which were bad against a super-safe Innovation.
Didn't add in ~5 infestors despite having the gas to do so until he was already mined out, etc... basically he made plenty of mistakes and Innovation did very well.
Please don't take the Innovation-Soulkey results and generalize it for all ZvT/TvZ
Also, Jaedong actually has always had bad ZvT and won most of his famous games through busts(Taeja, Gumiho, Flash), and he's not yet at the level of someone like Polt in a straight up game. Sorry, but it's true.
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On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T
... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT.
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On August 18 2013 19:48 YyapSsap wrote:Need dark swarm and PLAGUUUUUUU. I swear they need the latter badly!
The fungal was sc2's plague, I think they've nerfed it a couple times now.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:53 Marklar667 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:42 Megapenthes wrote:
Soulkey outplayed Innovation so bad in that derelict watcher game. Not really. Innovation was cruising the mid game, and when Soulkey got somewhat of an advantage chose to make more mutas to have his flock strengthened which was not a bad play and probably could've won him then game at that point. Then he somehow manages to lose his only mining hatcherie to a handfull of bio while he had a 30muta flock literally at shooting range of the marauders that sniped it. Can't see how he ouplayed him "so bad", that was a pretty damn poor play right there.
Actually if pay attention, you shall see, that innovation was not even bothering to right click hatch until the very last second :D
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On August 18 2013 19:50 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:47 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:46 BBV wrote:
need lurker to stop this crap Ironically, though i am against all those 'bring lurker back' cries, it really feels like lurker is the actual solution to this bio-mine stuff. But then again, there are marauders so you never know. didnt they test lurkers in the wol alpha ? .. but didnt work out because of the unit pathing ? they said lurkers were only good in BroodWar because of the poor unit pathing for broodwar
Nope. They wanted banes to be in and said lurkers would overlap with banes so no need for them. BS 
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On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken.
soulkey outplayed inno in 2nd game and he lost.. so...
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I'd forgotten how annoying zerg whiners could be. Looks like 2010 again 
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Croatia846 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:47 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. He played superbly. Perfect micro, perfect macro. Not sure why terran players would not appreciate such exceptional play.
Perfect play? 10 Zerglings kill his Orbital Command. That's good play? Bunch of Banelings walking into his mineral line and he doesn't even react? How come we didn't witness this brilliant play versus Parting yesterday? Oh, that's right. You can't just keep producing and rallying your units to one point when playing versus Protoss.
I don't want to take anything away from Innovation. He is a brilliant player, but so is Soulkey. And the results lately don't show that because match-up is too much in favor of the Terran. In last 6 matches, it's 6-0 for Innovation. Do people genuinely believe Innovation is so much better than Soulkey?
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On August 18 2013 19:57 AxionSteel wrote:I'd forgotten how annoying zerg whiners could be. Looks like 2010 again
Tell me about it, it's not like other races haven't had these issues.
Folks, you ain't losing your ladder games to balance.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:57 AxionSteel wrote:I'd forgotten how annoying zerg whiners could be. Looks like 2010 again
I wonder what were winrates in January 2011 and how hard they were screwd by Mvp.
EDIT: either way i really wonder when DK&Co will be fed up with all the whine and do nerf Innovation... or all Terrans.
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On August 18 2013 19:58 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:57 AxionSteel wrote:I'd forgotten how annoying zerg whiners could be. Looks like 2010 again Tell me about it, it's not like other races haven't had these issues. Folks, you ain't losing your ladder games to balance.
Oh but they are though, my low masters/high diamond zerg opponents are quick to point out how imbalanced terran is, even if they lose to my Mech
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On August 18 2013 19:55 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:53 Marklar667 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:42 Megapenthes wrote:
Soulkey outplayed Innovation so bad in that derelict watcher game. Not really. Innovation was cruising the mid game, and when Soulkey got somewhat of an advantage chose to make more mutas to have his flock strengthened which was not a bad play and probably could've won him then game at that point. Then he somehow manages to lose his only mining hatcherie to a handfull of bio while he had a 30muta flock literally at shooting range of the marauders that sniped it. Can't see how he ouplayed him "so bad", that was a pretty damn poor play right there. Actually if pay attention, you shall see, that innovation was not even bothering to right click hatch until the very last second :D
Well, okay. But the fact that soulkey chose not to save it was a huge deal compared to that anyways. You saw how it all fell appart after that
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On August 18 2013 19:57 AxionSteel wrote:I'd forgotten how annoying zerg whiners could be. Looks like 2010 again
true, game went three years behind instead of going forward.. people just want to see every race playing at same level, it is more fun and when it is not the case (like now) then people whine because they know before game starts how will it look.. like today, we all knew that SK would play as a beast and that 1 tier terran units will be enough to keep him down and kill him in the end
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:00 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:58 Pandain wrote:On August 18 2013 19:57 AxionSteel wrote:I'd forgotten how annoying zerg whiners could be. Looks like 2010 again Tell me about it, it's not like other races haven't had these issues. Folks, you ain't losing your ladder games to balance. Oh but they are though, my low masters/high diamond zerg opponents are quick to point out how imbalanced terran is, even if they lose to my Mech
Do not worry, i have see mid masters zergs losing to pure mines of terran with 40 APM.
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Anyone with a GIF of Parting doing the FBH dance?
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:00 Marklar667 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:55 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Marklar667 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:42 Megapenthes wrote:
Soulkey outplayed Innovation so bad in that derelict watcher game. Not really. Innovation was cruising the mid game, and when Soulkey got somewhat of an advantage chose to make more mutas to have his flock strengthened which was not a bad play and probably could've won him then game at that point. Then he somehow manages to lose his only mining hatcherie to a handfull of bio while he had a 30muta flock literally at shooting range of the marauders that sniped it. Can't see how he ouplayed him "so bad", that was a pretty damn poor play right there. Actually if pay attention, you shall see, that innovation was not even bothering to right click hatch until the very last second :D Well, okay. But the fact that soulkey chose not to save it was a huge deal compared to that anyways. You saw how it all fell appart after that
He tried to. Did not succeed.
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marines mine marauder medivac mule 5M push
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EPT
