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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sgsX0Sa.jpg) Sunday, Aug 18 9:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/World_Cyber_Games_2013/Qualifiers/Korea![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/7/7f/Twitch_ico.png) Twitch OGN
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/v87p15g.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MIoDCDB.png) ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/1.png)  PartinG ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/9.png) SoraThird Place Match![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/663.jpg) vs ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/647.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/5.png)  INnoVation ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/6.png)  Soulkey
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GglsvjA.png) + Show Spoiler [Spoiler-Free] ++ Show Spoiler [Overall Results] +
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IxIcaZ1.png) + Show Spoiler [Live Reports] +
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eGfXWKD.png) + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler [Finals] +Poll: Recommend PartinG vs Sora Game 1?★★★ - Good game (7) 39% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (6) 33% ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (3) 17% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1) 6% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1) 6% 18 total votes Your vote: Recommend PartinG vs Sora Game 1? (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
Poll: Recommend PartinG vs Sora Game 2?★★★★ - Highly recommended game (10) 42% ★★★ - Good game (5) 21% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (5) 21% ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (3) 13% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1) 4% 24 total votes Your vote: Recommend PartinG vs Sora Game 2? (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
Poll: Recommend PartinG vs Sora Game 3?★ - Do not see this game no matter what (6) 40% ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (4) 27% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (3) 20% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2) 13% ★★★ - Good game (0) 0% 15 total votes Your vote: Recommend PartinG vs Sora Game 3? (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
Poll: Recommend INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 1?★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (15) 42% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (10) 28% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (4) 11% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (4) 11% ★★★ - Good game (3) 8% 36 total votes Your vote: Recommend INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 1? (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
Poll: Recommend INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 2?★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (27) 52% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (11) 21% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (7) 13% ★★★ - Good game (6) 12% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1) 2% 52 total votes Your vote: Recommend INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 2? (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
Poll: Recommend INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 3?★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (11) 39% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (8) 29% ★★★ - Good game (4) 14% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3) 11% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2) 7% 28 total votes Your vote: Recommend INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 3? (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
Poll: Who will win 2-0?Sora (108) 100% 108 total votes Your vote: Who will win 2-0? (Vote): Sora
Credits to Arceus for the banners.
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Poll: Head?PartinG (52) 63% Sora (31) 37% 83 total votes Your vote: Head? (Vote): PartinG
(Vote): Sora
Poll: Heart?Sora (64) 60% PartinG (42) 40% 106 total votes Your vote: Heart? (Vote): PartinG
(Vote): Sora
Poll: Head?INnoVation (66) 89% Soulkey (8) 11% 74 total votes Your vote: Head? (Vote): INnoVation
(Vote): Soulkey
Poll: Heart?Soulkey (41) 54% INnoVation (35) 46% 76 total votes Your vote: Heart? (Vote): INnoVation
(Vote): Soulkey
(1938) Sora 0-0 PartinG (1807)
-------------------------------------------
30.96% 2-0 0-2 19.68%
27.47% 2-1 1-2 21.90%
-------------------------------------------
58.42% 41.58%
Median outcome: Sora 2-1 PartinG
Estimated by Aligulac. Modify.
(2104) INnoVation 0-0 Soulkey (1777)
-------------------------------------------------
41.24% 2-0 0-2 12.80%
29.51% 2-1 1-2 16.44%
-------------------------------------------------
70.75% 29.25%
Median outcome: INnoVation 2-1 Soulkey
Estimated by Aligulac. Modify.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
I just finished adding the maps lol, just copy paste again mwah
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
Poll: Who will win 2-0?Sora (108) 100% 108 total votes Your vote: Who will win 2-0? (Vote): Sora
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On August 17 2013 20:24 Zealously wrote:Poll: Who will win 2-0?Sora (108) 100% 108 total votes Your vote: Who will win 2-0? (Vote): Sora
PartinG also won everyone 2-0.
Sora GOGOGO!!!
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WCG is just sometimes the weirdest tournament.
But hey, Parting vs Sora. Let's do it!
Also Innovation vs Soulkey continues to be just a running rivalry. In almost every tournament, they find a way to meet.
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Interestingly, none of the 2-0 victories of Sora's WCG run is against Protoss.
On the other hand, PartinG, who also holds perfect 2-0 record, won JangBi and Rain.
I will be shocked if Sora 2-0 PartinG.
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Another Inno v Soulkey. This is THE match up in SC2, best terran, best zerg, if only soulkey could actually take more games :/.
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On August 17 2013 20:42 PerSe wrote:
Another Inno v Soulkey. This is THE match up in SC2, best terran, best zerg, if only soulkey could actually take more games :/.
Well Inno has lost like 2 whole series this month. According to some people that puts him at like #15 in the power rank.
Though legitimately, Inno still looks godly in TvZ. I also wish I could see Soulkey winning. He has far more soul than the robot =3
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So episode 10 comes out tomorrow....
And our new overlord needs a dedicated banner
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On August 17 2013 21:39 Fuell wrote:
hmm adding hype lol
thats a banner mang!
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United States744 Posts
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Added Aligulac predictions in the poll post
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after watching Sora yesterday I am ALL UP in this bandwagon
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Sora is yet to 2-0 a protoss. Looking forward to it.
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So exciting to watch, also haven't watched Sora yet haha.
Does he win straight macro, timings, straight cheese?
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United States23455 Posts
If Sora wins:
* Longest winning streak in a major Korean SC2 tournament in history. The current record is Squirtle's fourteen in a row back in 2012 GSL Code S. It was broken by Mvp in G1 of the Grand Finals.
* Second player to win a major Korean SC2 tournament without a dropped map. The only other to do this was Nestea, back during 2011 GSL Code S July, where he went 13-0 and did not drop a single map the entire tournament. Curious also went a perfect 13-0, but it was during a Code A season back in 2011.
* Possibly the longest winning streak in SC2 Korean tournament history, but I am not 100% sure. I believe Nestea and Squirtle share the record for 14 games in a row.
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On August 18 2013 06:43 Pandain wrote:
So exciting to watch, also haven't watched Sora yet haha.
Does he win straight macro, timings, straight cheese?
Macro
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On August 18 2013 06:45 Fionn wrote:
If Sora wins:
* Longest winning streak in a major Korean SC2 tournament in history. The current record is Squirtle's fourteen in a row back in 2012 GSL Code S. It was broken by Mvp in G1 of the Grand Finals.
* Second player to win a major Korean SC2 tournament without a dropped map. The only other to do this was Nestea, back during 2011 GSL Code S July, where he went 13-0 and did not drop a single map the entire tournament. Curious also went a perfect 13-0, but it was during a Code A season back in 2011.
* Possibly the longest winning streak in SC2 Korean tournament history, but I am not 100% sure. I believe Nestea and Squirtle share the record for 14 games in a row.
parting is going full sniper on sora
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On August 17 2013 20:42 PerSe wrote:
Another Inno v Soulkey. This is THE match up in SC2, best terran, best zerg, if only soulkey could actually take more games :/.
In all the great Zerg vs Terran rivalries, the zerg very rarely wins.
Boxer v Yellow was dominated by Boxer; Flash v Jaedong was dominated by Flash; Mvp v Nestea was dominated by Mvp; MMA v DRG was dominated by MMA; It's only natural that Innovation would dominate Innovation v Soulkey.
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On August 18 2013 06:43 Pandain wrote:
So exciting to watch, also haven't watched Sora yet haha.
Does he win straight macro, timings, straight cheese?
Macro, check out his game 2 v Soulkey earlier today. 'Twas beautiful.
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This banner.
It wins.
Though it did remind me I have another agonizing day to wait until the next episode ><
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Who is Sora? What is this? How have I misses so much?
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On August 18 2013 08:01 Polygamy wrote:
Who is Sora? What is this? How have I misses so much?
He's a CJ B-teamer who came out of nowhere to sweep 7 players 2-0 including Bomber and Soulkey to get here. He's pretty cool.
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On August 18 2013 06:45 Fionn wrote:
If Sora wins:
* Longest winning streak in a major Korean SC2 tournament in history. The current record is Squirtle's fourteen in a row back in 2012 GSL Code S. It was broken by Mvp in G1 of the Grand Finals.
* Second player to win a major Korean SC2 tournament without a dropped map. The only other to do this was Nestea, back during 2011 GSL Code S July, where he went 13-0 and did not drop a single map the entire tournament. Curious also went a perfect 13-0, but it was during a Code A season back in 2011.
* Possibly the longest winning streak in SC2 Korean tournament history, but I am not 100% sure. I believe Nestea and Squirtle share the record for 14 games in a row.
What about Nestea?
Edit: Woops didn't read the whole post
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If PartinG wins... Won't this be back to back championships for this tournament? He better climb back up the power rank!
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On August 17 2013 20:30 bittman wrote:
WCG is just sometimes the weirdest tournament.
But hey, Parting vs Sora. Let's do it!
Also Innovation vs Soulkey continues to be just a running rivalry. In almost every tournament, they find a way to meet.
and also soulkey somehow shows a very admirable play vs innovation yet innovation still stomps him everytime aside from wcs code s 2013
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On August 18 2013 07:46 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2013 20:42 PerSe wrote:
Another Inno v Soulkey. This is THE match up in SC2, best terran, best zerg, if only soulkey could actually take more games :/. In all the great Zerg vs Terran rivalries, the zerg very rarely wins. Boxer v Yellow was dominated by Boxer; Flash v Jaedong was dominated by Flash; Mvp v Nestea was dominated by Mvp; MMA v DRG was dominated by MMA; It's only natural that Innovation would dominate Innovation v Soulkey.
well not true at every case .. their was flash vs life was dominated by life .. but thats just it .. the rest are true .. somehow on the highest levels of play .. terrans have a advantage over zerg .. is it the great-micro capacity ? probably more reasons than just that
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Parting beat Innovation and Sora beat Soulkey? The fuuuuuck?
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I know Sora is an amazing story and all, but doesnt his game against PartinG means basically nothing?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the top 3 in this qualifier make it to WCG.
Therefore the finals is literally nothing more than bragging rights and the actual important match is the one for 3rd place and the final seed into WCG. So shouldnt we be focusing on the awesomeness of another really important INnovation vs Soulkey match?
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On August 18 2013 09:41 Dragoonstorm7 wrote:I know Sora is an amazing story and all, but doesnt his game against PartinG means basically nothing? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the top 3 in this qualifier make it to WCG. Therefore the finals is literally nothing more than bragging rights and the actual important match is the one for 3rd place and the final seed into WCG. So shouldnt we be focusing on the awesomeness of another really important INnovation vs Soulkey match?
Yes that's true, but a b-teamer possibly going undefeated vs all these great players shouldn't be ignored either and that's why it's grabbing more attention initially, but by the times the games roll around tonight almost everyone will be giddy about the inno v soul games and forget who Sora is.
Edit: my post is assuming you're correct.. I'm not 100% sure that this game means absolutely nothing.
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soulkey please win this time
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On August 18 2013 09:41 Dragoonstorm7 wrote:I know Sora is an amazing story and all, but doesnt his game against PartinG means basically nothing? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the top 3 in this qualifier make it to WCG. Therefore the finals is literally nothing more than bragging rights and the actual important match is the one for 3rd place and the final seed into WCG. So shouldnt we be focusing on the awesomeness of another really important INnovation vs Soulkey match?
Considering the Korean qualifiers have always been harder than the actual WCG Finals? I'd say it's something even if it's WCG s;
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 09:41 Dragoonstorm7 wrote:I know Sora is an amazing story and all, but doesnt his game against PartinG means basically nothing? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the top 3 in this qualifier make it to WCG. Therefore the finals is literally nothing more than bragging rights and the actual important match is the one for 3rd place and the final seed into WCG. So shouldnt we be focusing on the awesomeness of another really important INnovation vs Soulkey match?
I believe there is small amount of money on the line (well, 4 million won for 1st place is not that small but still).
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 11:14 tuho12345 wrote:
Bo3 final? wtf?
Welcome to WCG!
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 09:04 CrazyHunter wrote:
If PartinG wins... Won't this be back to back championships for this tournament? He better climb back up the power rank!
He needs to win WCG back-to-back. This is just WCG Korea, in which he got 3rd place last time (1st place went to Yongjwa and 2nd to MarineKong).
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On August 18 2013 11:16 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 09:04 CrazyHunter wrote:
If PartinG wins... Won't this be back to back championships for this tournament? He better climb back up the power rank! He needs to win WCG back-to-back. This is just WCG Korea, in which he got 3rd place last time (1st place went to Yongjwa and 2nd to MarineKong).
Ahh gotcha. Thanks for clearing it up!
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aw shuck...I wanted both sk and inno to be in the wcg......T_T
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On August 18 2013 06:45 Fionn wrote:
If Sora wins:
* Longest winning streak in a major Korean SC2 tournament in history. The current record is Squirtle's fourteen in a row back in 2012 GSL Code S. It was broken by Mvp in G1 of the Grand Finals.
* Second player to win a major Korean SC2 tournament without a dropped map. The only other to do this was Nestea, back during 2011 GSL Code S July, where he went 13-0 and did not drop a single map the entire tournament. Curious also went a perfect 13-0, but it was during a Code A season back in 2011.
* Possibly the longest winning streak in SC2 Korean tournament history, but I am not 100% sure. I believe Nestea and Squirtle share the record for 14 games in a row.
Only televised games count. In this case, it's 6 for Sora, the rest is attributed to "preliminary"
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United States23455 Posts
On August 18 2013 11:51 Arceus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 06:45 Fionn wrote:
If Sora wins:
* Longest winning streak in a major Korean SC2 tournament in history. The current record is Squirtle's fourteen in a row back in 2012 GSL Code S. It was broken by Mvp in G1 of the Grand Finals.
* Second player to win a major Korean SC2 tournament without a dropped map. The only other to do this was Nestea, back during 2011 GSL Code S July, where he went 13-0 and did not drop a single map the entire tournament. Curious also went a perfect 13-0, but it was during a Code A season back in 2011.
* Possibly the longest winning streak in SC2 Korean tournament history, but I am not 100% sure. I believe Nestea and Squirtle share the record for 14 games in a row. Only televised games count. In this case, it's 6 for Sora, the rest is attributed to "preliminary"
Television, qualifiers, it doesn't matter. No one has ever one 16 straight in a Korean tournament in SC2.
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Best of 3 finals? Dissappointing
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Sora with a 100% winrate vs Protoss.
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On August 18 2013 12:16 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 11:51 Arceus wrote:On August 18 2013 06:45 Fionn wrote:
If Sora wins:
* Longest winning streak in a major Korean SC2 tournament in history. The current record is Squirtle's fourteen in a row back in 2012 GSL Code S. It was broken by Mvp in G1 of the Grand Finals.
* Second player to win a major Korean SC2 tournament without a dropped map. The only other to do this was Nestea, back during 2011 GSL Code S July, where he went 13-0 and did not drop a single map the entire tournament. Curious also went a perfect 13-0, but it was during a Code A season back in 2011.
* Possibly the longest winning streak in SC2 Korean tournament history, but I am not 100% sure. I believe Nestea and Squirtle share the record for 14 games in a row. Only televised games count. In this case, it's 6 for Sora, the rest is attributed to "preliminary" Television, qualifiers, it doesn't matter. No one has ever one 16 straight in a Korean tournament in SC2.
I wonder, is there 14 15?
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On August 18 2013 10:52 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 09:41 Dragoonstorm7 wrote:I know Sora is an amazing story and all, but doesnt his game against PartinG means basically nothing? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the top 3 in this qualifier make it to WCG. Therefore the finals is literally nothing more than bragging rights and the actual important match is the one for 3rd place and the final seed into WCG. So shouldnt we be focusing on the awesomeness of another really important INnovation vs Soulkey match? I believe there is small amount of money on the line (well, 4 million won for 1st place is not that small but still).
Ah ok thanks. I just didnt see that prize money statistic listed in the original article nor on liquipedia, so I wasnt sure that there was one.
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United States97276 Posts
Would be crazy to see Sora win this. great underdog story
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I just heard of this Sora guy now. can't wait to watch him play something.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On August 18 2013 12:27 Baroninthetree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 12:16 Fionn wrote:On August 18 2013 11:51 Arceus wrote:On August 18 2013 06:45 Fionn wrote:
If Sora wins:
* Longest winning streak in a major Korean SC2 tournament in history. The current record is Squirtle's fourteen in a row back in 2012 GSL Code S. It was broken by Mvp in G1 of the Grand Finals.
* Second player to win a major Korean SC2 tournament without a dropped map. The only other to do this was Nestea, back during 2011 GSL Code S July, where he went 13-0 and did not drop a single map the entire tournament. Curious also went a perfect 13-0, but it was during a Code A season back in 2011.
* Possibly the longest winning streak in SC2 Korean tournament history, but I am not 100% sure. I believe Nestea and Squirtle share the record for 14 games in a row. Only televised games count. In this case, it's 6 for Sora, the rest is attributed to "preliminary" Television, qualifiers, it doesn't matter. No one has ever one 16 straight in a Korean tournament in SC2. I wonder, is there 14 15?
Nvm.
Nestea got 15-0 before dropping a map.
Squirtle got 14-0 before losing to Mvp.
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Australia18228 Posts
On August 18 2013 10:52 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 09:41 Dragoonstorm7 wrote:I know Sora is an amazing story and all, but doesnt his game against PartinG means basically nothing? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the top 3 in this qualifier make it to WCG. Therefore the finals is literally nothing more than bragging rights and the actual important match is the one for 3rd place and the final seed into WCG. So shouldnt we be focusing on the awesomeness of another really important INnovation vs Soulkey match? I believe there is small amount of money on the line (well, 4 million won for 1st place is not that small but still).
Any source for this?
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Well this certainly wasn't the finals I was expecting....
That said, GO PARTING!
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If I told you the finals and third place match for WCG Korea were today and told you that one match was PartinG versus Sora(a CJ B-teamer), and the other was Inno v. Soulkey but didn't tell you which was which, you would probably assume Inno v. Soulkey was the championship and talk about how at least they both made it...
That said, PartinG FIGHTING
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Was so hyped, but wtf bo3 finals...
Inb4 quick 2-0 cheese...
I don't think there is a gamer out there, who actually is able to understand WCG's weird decisions. They just like hurting themselves or something...
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I'm rooting against parting in this one and the international grand finals (if he makes it) , I dont want parting to be on equal terms with Wc3 legand SKY , the ONLY 2 time wcg champion to win it back to back.
speaking of sky , does anyone know if there is a korean wc3 qualifier ?
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Doesn't OGN get to decide how they run their qualifier though?
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Loving the banner for today's match, can't wait to cast these games with montecristo!
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There's a reason people don't give a damn about WCG anymore. Bo3 finals? Give me a friggin break. Bo5 I could understand.
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On August 18 2013 15:48 Havik_ wrote:
There's a reason people don't give a damn about WCG anymore. Bo3 finals? Give me a friggin break. Bo5 I could understand.
I'm pretty sure that's not the reason though
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On August 18 2013 15:48 Havik_ wrote:
There's a reason people don't give a damn about WCG anymore. Bo3 finals? Give me a friggin break. Bo5 I could understand.
To be fair, the finals have very little importance except for the title of WCG Korean champion (ask Yonghwa) since top 3 qualifies and I don't think there is a cash prize. The 3rd 4th match is actually more critical.
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I missed watching the games live so far, but just skimming through the results makes me think...
Man, another eSF beatdown by KeSPA! 
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Australia18228 Posts
On August 18 2013 15:48 Havik_ wrote:
There's a reason people don't give a damn about WCG anymore. Bo3 finals? Give me a friggin break. Bo5 I could understand.
Bo3 finals for a qualifier is the norm.
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On August 18 2013 16:06 Inflicted_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 15:48 Havik_ wrote:
There's a reason people don't give a damn about WCG anymore. Bo3 finals? Give me a friggin break. Bo5 I could understand. Bo3 finals for a qualifier is the norm.
yah but It's not like the main event doesn't have bo1 group stage and bo3 playoffs.
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Innovation vs. Soulkey AGAIN? Good god.
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On August 18 2013 16:13 dabom88 wrote:
Innovation vs. Soulkey AGAIN? Good god.
RoBogus to 2-0 the hopes and dreams of Zerg again D:
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Edit: Im a fucking idiot. Ignore
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On August 18 2013 16:22 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 16:13 dabom88 wrote:
Innovation vs. Soulkey AGAIN? Good god. RoBogus to 2-0 the hopes and dreams of Zerg again D:
oh poor soulkey .. its gonna be like this again .. soulkey's early and midgame will be brilliant again .. and when the inevitable hive tech transitioning comes .. soulkey is gonna die to 2/2 mmmm parade or 3/3 vs lairtech
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Well, at least grab the third place Innovation. Judging by his track record against Soulkey, it shouldn't be too hard.
Seeing Parting lose would also be satisfying.
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I'll be shocked if Sora does not win 2-0
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
Judging from way Soulkey and Innovation were playing yesterday i may try and bet that we shall see the series worthy of Brat_OK and Stephano's series at that ASUS ROG :D
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Good luck Sora / Innovation!
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I want Parting to bop Sora and take his clown shoes
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I've been following the stay up rather than wake up philosophy for tonight, hoping for some good games!
Sora winning any game vs. Parting would be huge, and heavily cheering for Soulkey. You see so much skill in his play, waiting for the day when he's simply on another level from everyone.
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PartinG - Sora 2-0
Inno - SK 2-0
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
Okay, now for serious:
My prediction on how SK vs Inno series shall go:
1st game: SK trying his usual thing and losing.
2nd game: Innovation decides to build tanks, SK goes roach hydra.
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What, are these only bo3? :'(
If everyone plays to their skilllevel we are used to, the 3rd place match will be the better final :D
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 17:47 graNite wrote:
What, are these only bo3? :'(
If everyone plays to their skilllevel we are used to, the 3rd place match will be the better final :D
Actually if SK and Inno were playing to their actual skill level yesterday, current 3rd place and final matches would be swapped :D
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Poll: Which will win?innovations 2/2 mmmm (18) 90% soulkey lairtech (2) 10% 20 total votes Your vote: Which will win? (Vote): innovations 2/2 mmmm
(Vote): soulkey lairtech
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Canada16217 Posts
On August 18 2013 15:52 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 15:48 Havik_ wrote:
There's a reason people don't give a damn about WCG anymore. Bo3 finals? Give me a friggin break. Bo5 I could understand. To be fair, the finals have very little importance except for the title of WCG Korean champion (ask Yonghwa) since top 3 qualifies and I don't think there is a cash prize. The 3rd 4th match is actually more critical.
I think theirs a cash prize for 1st/2nd not sure exactly on the amount though.
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Looks like it's PartinG vs Sora first.
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haven't watched any of this so far, who casts this?
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 17:55 goody153 wrote:Poll: Which will win?innovations 2/2 mmmm (18) 90% soulkey lairtech (2) 10% 20 total votes Your vote: Which will win? (Vote): innovations 2/2 mmmm
(Vote): soulkey lairtech
You made small error: you meant 3-3 mmmm (seriously, all Innovation's macro game wins against SK were with 3-3 bio against 2-2 (3-3 incoming) soulkey).
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 17:58 Schelim wrote:
haven't watched any of this so far, who casts this?
Montecristo+ Whiplash today.
EDIT1: lol stream
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On August 18 2013 17:59 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 17:58 Schelim wrote:
haven't watched any of this so far, who casts this? Montecristo+ Whiplash today.
mute and music it is. thanks.
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On August 18 2013 17:58 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 17:55 goody153 wrote:Poll: Which will win?innovations 2/2 mmmm (18) 90% soulkey lairtech (2) 10% 20 total votes Your vote: Which will win? (Vote): innovations 2/2 mmmm
(Vote): soulkey lairtech
You made small error: you meant 3-3 mmmm (seriously, all Innovation's macro game wins against SK were with 3-3 bio against 2-2 (3-3 incoming) soulkey).
forgot to enlist that part .. sorry ^^V
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Vatican City State431 Posts
It's PvProleague again. Oh! The nightmares!
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On August 18 2013 17:58 monkybone wrote:
no gom stream? noooooo
gom has never done wcg kr, even in 2011 far before kespa switched to sc2 it was OGN who hosted it.
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Didn't Gom do it last year?
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So. It doesn't matter who wins in Sora vs. Parting?
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On August 18 2013 18:05 LockeTazeline wrote:
Didn't Gom do it last year?
No, OGN did and Yonghwa beat MKP in the finals, the finals was hosted outdoors somewhere.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:05 umelbumel wrote:
So. It doesn't matter who wins in Sora vs. Parting?
As far as i know 1st place gets 4 million won, 2nd gets 2 or 3 million won. So around 1k bux and pride.
EDIT: lol, Coach Park always gets his dose of credit :D
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On August 18 2013 18:06 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:05 umelbumel wrote:
So. It doesn't matter who wins in Sora vs. Parting? As far as i know 1st place gets 4 million won, 2nd gets 2 or 3 million won. So around 1k bux and pride.
kk thx. But both are qualified, right?
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:07 umelbumel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:06 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 18:05 umelbumel wrote:
So. It doesn't matter who wins in Sora vs. Parting? As far as i know 1st place gets 4 million won, 2nd gets 2 or 3 million won. So around 1k bux and pride. kk thx. But both are qualified, right?
Yeah, in that sense only SK vs Inno matters atm
On August 18 2013 18:08 graNite wrote:wtf they start with the final and not the third place match? omg 
Well, third place match is more important :D
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wtf they start with the final and not the third place match? omg
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If Im not mistaken, Sora will get a progamer license if he wins this one since he only got a semi-pro one and theres no formal draft
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Sora gonna get stomped
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:10 myminerals wrote:Sora gonna get stomped
Well, this game it looks like that so far
WAIT, WHAT!?
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lol, even PC thinks Parting will own
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On August 18 2013 18:10 lolfail9001 wrote:Well, this game it looks like that so far WAIT, WHAT!?
I saw this post before the edit, then hit F5. I loled.
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No GG, Sora so BM!
^^ haha lol
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what just happened? I looked away for a second and there was a gg?
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On August 18 2013 18:09 Arceus wrote:
If Im not mistaken, Sora will get a progamer license if he wins this one since he only got a semi-pro one and theres no formal draft
sora's progaming license depends on a bo3 PvP?
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On August 18 2013 18:12 monkybone wrote:
what is the third place match?
winner get the final spot for WCG grand finals. parting and sora have both already qualified.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:13 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:09 Arceus wrote:
If Im not mistaken, Sora will get a progamer license if he wins this one since he only got a semi-pro one and theres no formal draft sora's progaming license depends on a bo3 PvP?
Well, PvP is all skill as we know /s
EDIT: Sora soon will hate blizzard for resume from replay :D
On August 18 2013 18:14 Lazzi wrote:
What happened?
Apparently Sora suddenly left the game. To his own surprise too :D
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Tasteless accidentally left a game in bw 
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United States23455 Posts
Why is Parting still in the old SKT uniform?
The new ones are quite nice.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:16 JonIrenicus wrote:
why is written ogn-lol in the stream list ? For a moment I thought the stream was about League of legends...
Well, they kinda use it for their LoL broadcasts most of time. WCG and 2012's Auction OSL was exception :D
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On August 18 2013 18:16 Fionn wrote:
Why is Parting still in the old SKT uniform?
The new ones are quite nice.
they forgot to make one his size?
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
Seems like Parting has only been eating sun chips
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On August 18 2013 18:17 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:16 Fionn wrote:
Why is Parting still in the old SKT uniform?
The new ones are quite nice. they forgot to make one his size?
They made one of his previous size.
Oh, how mean we are.
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United States23455 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VVeb1TI.jpg)
The new SKT unis.
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wait, those suck. what are you talking about.
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On August 18 2013 18:16 Fionn wrote:
Why is Parting still in the old SKT uniform?
The new ones are quite nice.
well i like the one parting is wearing better
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lol yeah right... cant get away with proxys against kespa ^^
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:21 Fjodorov wrote:
lol yeah right... cant get away with proxys against kespa ^^
yeah, i wonder whom sOs plays against in proleague :D
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twitch always gives me problems, for some reason, not during these late night WCG Korea games.
http://hd.ognp2p.gscdn.com/ognsdlive is the vlc stream just in case anyone has problems with twitch.
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KILL HIM AND TAKE HIS SHOES
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cccc c combo breaker.
Sora finally ran into Sephiroth >_>
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That game was so one sided that Sora lost it twice.
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oh men .. PartingvP is too strong .. poor Sora i was really hoping he would win
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That was such a good timing by Parting. Still a very good and interesting game by Sora.
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Those look awful.
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just gg fast, we need some Bous vs SK action
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oh god .. this slow death animation of sora is awful to watch
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Maybe Sora doesn't know how to gg? ;o
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holy shit parting slapped him down
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On August 18 2013 18:26 maybenexttime wrote:
Maybe Sora doesn't know how to gg? ;o
How would he? It's not like he's used to losing
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After game recap:
PartinG vs Sora Game 1 Crux Bel'Shir Vestige SE
PartinG spawns in the 5 o'clock position
Sora spawns in the 11 o'clock position
Both players open standard, double gas.
Sora expands, PartinG goes into stargate tech.
PartinG gets an oracle, Sora adds 2 gates and a robo.
Robo for PartinG as well and he takes his natural.
Sora leaves the game?!!? Game will be resumed from replay.
PartinG kills some probes but loses the oracle in the process.
PartinG goes robo bay, Sora double stargate and forge.
Sora adds more gates and starts an oracle and a void.
PartinG attacks in the natural and kills the nexus.
Sora gets overrun. PartinG contains Sora and takes a 20 supply advantage.
Sora pushes out with 4 and kills a couple of units.
Sora hits the natural of PartinG but gets crushed.
Sora ggs! PartinG takes game one!
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:26 maybenexttime wrote:
Maybe Sora doesn't know how to gg? ;o
You just explained his win streak!
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On August 18 2013 18:24 myminerals wrote:
winning streak is broken
Winning streak other side kept alive
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On August 18 2013 18:26 Corrosive wrote:
holy shit parting slapped him down
he told us he would give sora a beating
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On August 18 2013 18:24 vrok wrote:Those look awful.
Seriously. Orange 4tw.
CJ seems to have dropped the nice yellow jackets and beige pants....so KT for best sc2 uniform atm?
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I don't know why he still went for that final attack after rebuilding his nat ._.
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On August 18 2013 18:27 Dodgin wrote:he told us he would give sora a beating
yeah but...
...damn
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Poll: Recommend PartinG vs Sora Game 1?★★★ - Good game (7) 39% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (6) 33% ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (3) 17% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1) 6% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1) 6% 18 total votes Your vote: Recommend PartinG vs Sora Game 1? (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
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pretty sure Sora had PartinG shit his pant for a second with them hallu rays xD
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You have to wonder, will Sora ever get another streak like that in his career?
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
fortunately for Parting, Sora isnt a zerg
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PartinG is on a 9 game winning streak (including WCS OSL). Time to get on the train.
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This is Soras first PvP in WCG. Maybe it's his Achilles' Heel.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:30 PepsiMaxxxx wrote:
This is Soras first PvP in WCG. Maybe it's his Achilles' Heel.
Well, Sora had 100% PvP winrate prior to that, no :D?
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this will never gonna work against Parting
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:32 monkybone wrote:
innovation lost 2-0 to parting and soulkey lost 2-0 to sora? :S
what happened?
They played like they wanted to avoid going in WCG global final
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sora doing an inbase proxy on parting now wow
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:33 myminerals wrote:this will never gonna work against Parting
It should not, but who the heck knows.
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I just realized that the finals are BO3. Eww.
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Oh Sora, you sneaky devil you.
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you don't really want to challenge parting to a micro battle
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Jesus christ observer, show the pylon HP maybe?! >_<
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MSC saves the day once again!
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PartinG is one badass heartless
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On August 18 2013 18:30 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:30 PepsiMaxxxx wrote:
This is Soras first PvP in WCG. Maybe it's his Achilles' Heel. Well, Sora had 100% PvP winrate prior to that, no :D?
100% u say ?
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HIGHLIGHT THE GODDAMN PYLON OMG
why cant i have legend casting every gmae i watch :'(
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That has to be one of the most failed unscouted proxy 2 gate I've seen.
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gg Sora so dead
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T_T
Wanted Parting to lose so I could watch another straight up PartinGvP .
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Sick defense from PartinG!
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Sora Sora Sora... you just had to focus that one pylon, yet one of your zealots kept attacking the core...
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slapped down.
TAKE HIS CLOWN SHOES.
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On August 18 2013 18:34 Sakkreth wrote:
lol gg.
never doubt parting
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On August 18 2013 18:36 umelbumel wrote:
what was sora doing?
Proxy two gates and PartinG holds.
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that was crazy, how do you fuck up that cheese.
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this kid just plays 100% awesome games regardless of winning or losing. How is that possible?
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
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On August 18 2013 18:37 Arceus wrote:
this kid just plays 100% awesome games regardless of winning or losing. How is that possible?
yeah .. loved all his games so far !
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LOL da fuck was that ceremony
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Poll: Recommend PartinG vs Sora Game 2?★★★★ - Highly recommended game (10) 42% ★★★ - Good game (5) 21% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (5) 21% ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (3) 13% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (1) 4% 24 total votes Your vote: Recommend PartinG vs Sora Game 2? (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
Poll: Recommend PartinG vs Sora Game 3?★ - Do not see this game no matter what (6) 40% ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (4) 27% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (3) 20% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2) 13% ★★★ - Good game (0) 0% 15 total votes Your vote: Recommend PartinG vs Sora Game 3? (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
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YES PARTING GIVING US THE FBH CEREMONY LOL
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Parting for the top power rank!
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PartinG pulling a FBH loooool
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That was the most boring finals ever...
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After game recap:
PartinG vs Sora Game 2 Derelict Watcher
PartinG spawns in the 1 o'clock position
Sora spawns in the 7 o'clock position
Sora moves out for a proxy 2 gate in the PartinG's base.
PartinG opens standard one gas.
2 zealots walk into the mienral line.
With some clutch defense PartinG holds!
PartinG attacks with his msc and a stalker.
Sora loses a lot of probes to the MSC of PartinG.
Sora is killed by a superior number of gateway units.
Sora ggs. PartinG is your WCG KR 2013 champion!
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Parting is just in another league, wow.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:38 skyR wrote:
That was the most boring finals ever...
Ceremony made 'em most hilarious ones :D
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Not sure what's worse. The casting or the observing.
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Good run by Sora though.
Sora, Donald (Effort) and Goofy (herO) to take next PL season.
Less IM joins ofc :p
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BO3 for finals so weird haha
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On August 18 2013 18:38 skyR wrote:
That was the most boring finals ever...
The gap is too big in skill.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:39 -Kaiser- wrote:
Not sure what's worse. The casting or the observing.
Still better than Tastosis casting Rain vs Maru
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now for the real match everyone was waiting for, the top rivalry in sc2 imo.
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Next up Inno and Soulkey!
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On August 18 2013 18:38 myminerals wrote:
Parting for the top power rank!
hehe. this was a good one.
gg from parting though.
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On August 18 2013 18:39 -Kaiser- wrote:
Not sure what's worse. The casting or the observing.
my cast sounds suspiciously like gangsta rap tbh. maybe because it is. if you don't like the casters, just mute the fuck outta that stream.
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I blame Fionn for digging up all the stats that would've been relevant if Sora'd won.
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That FBH ceremony. Awesome, thx parking.
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time to see sk vs inno
Poll: Which will win?innovations 2/2 mmmm (18) 90% soulkey lairtech (2) 10% 20 total votes Your vote: Which will win? (Vote): innovations 2/2 mmmm
(Vote): soulkey lairtech
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Hahahahahahaha I jUSt watched firebat hero.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:40 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:33 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 18:32 monkybone wrote:
innovation lost 2-0 to parting and soulkey lost 2-0 to sora? :S
what happened? They played like they wanted to avoid going in WCG global final any reason why this would make sense?
Because that is exactly what they were doing: Innovation was playing passive game against PartinG (well, PartinG was Rain-level with defence of stuff that Inno did try to throw at him) and Soulkey was doing some weird stuff (ala broodlord-queen all-in off 3 bases).
On August 18 2013 18:41 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:39 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 18:39 -Kaiser- wrote:
Not sure what's worse. The casting or the observing. Still better than Tastosis casting Rain vs Maru huh?
Dunno, i just do not like Tastosis' nowadays. Their cast of games 3 and 4 sounded like : praise Rain for doing something nice way, mention Maru doing some cool stuff, say Rain almost got it, Rain does stupid mistake and going: okay, it is gg, while talking about random stuff in between.
On August 18 2013 18:42 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:41 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 18:40 monkybone wrote:On August 18 2013 18:33 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 18:32 monkybone wrote:
innovation lost 2-0 to parting and soulkey lost 2-0 to sora? :S
what happened? They played like they wanted to avoid going in WCG global final any reason why this would make sense? Because that is exactly what they were doing: Innovation was playing passive game against PartinG (well, PartinG was Rain-level with defence of stuff that Inno did try to throw at him) and Soulkey was doing some weird stuff (ala broodlord-queen all-in off 3 bases). no, i mean, any reason why it would make sense to avoid the final for them.
Who knows.
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That the best hold I've seen in a while!
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This is cool n all, but god damn, how far has wcg fallen? it once used to be the most anticipated tournaments during the first few years of wc3. now its just like meh
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:45 lessQQmorePEWPEW wrote:
This is cool n all, but god damn, how far has wcg fallen? it once used to be the most anticipated tournaments during the first few years of wc3. now its just like meh
First few years of wc3? Ehem, it feels like that was like.... 8 years ago?
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WCG was actually pretty cool in 2011. Then WCS came along and that pretty much took any strength WCG had left.
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On August 18 2013 18:47 Packawana wrote:
WCG was actually pretty cool in 2011. Then WCS came along and that pretty much took any strength WCG had left.
i remember watching mvp vs xigua on metalopolis with the first mass ghost strategy. nukes and snipes everywhere...
good game, but the stream was on potato level quality :'(
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:49 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:47 Packawana wrote:
WCG was actually pretty cool in 2011. Then WCS came along and that pretty much took any strength WCG had left. i remember watching mvp vs xigua on metalopolis with the first mass ghost strategy. nukes and snipes everywhere... good game, but the stream was on potato level quality :'(
Dammit, stop reminding me of those awesome days of ghosts being counter to zerg :D
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On August 18 2013 18:45 lessQQmorePEWPEW wrote:
This is cool n all, but god damn, how far has wcg fallen? it once used to be the most anticipated tournaments during the first few years of wc3. now its just like meh
WCG is always meh for starcraft.
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so it begins
Poll: Which will win?innovations 2/2 mmmm (18) 90% soulkey lairtech (2) 10% 20 total votes Your vote: Which will win? (Vote): innovations 2/2 mmmm
(Vote): soulkey lairtech
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:50 goody153 wrote:so it begins Poll: Which will win?innovations 2/2 mmmm (18) 90% soulkey lairtech (2) 10% 20 total votes Your vote: Which will win? (Vote): innovations 2/2 mmmm
(Vote): soulkey lairtech
This poll lacks option: innovation building tank
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Damn I missed all the fun. Well I guess I can watch Innovation v Soulkey but come on...
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On August 18 2013 18:50 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:49 graNite wrote:On August 18 2013 18:47 Packawana wrote:
WCG was actually pretty cool in 2011. Then WCS came along and that pretty much took any strength WCG had left. i remember watching mvp vs xigua on metalopolis with the first mass ghost strategy. nukes and snipes everywhere... good game, but the stream was on potato level quality :'( Dammit, stop reminding me of those awesome days of ghosts being counter to zerg :D
yeah that was awful lol
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On August 18 2013 18:50 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:49 graNite wrote:On August 18 2013 18:47 Packawana wrote:
WCG was actually pretty cool in 2011. Then WCS came along and that pretty much took any strength WCG had left. i remember watching mvp vs xigua on metalopolis with the first mass ghost strategy. nukes and snipes everywhere... good game, but the stream was on potato level quality :'( Dammit, stop reminding me of those awesome days of ghosts being counter to zerg :D
i still go raven ghost in tvz lategame it works if you have more than 50 ghosts
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On August 18 2013 18:50 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:50 goody153 wrote:so it begins Poll: Which will win?innovations 2/2 mmmm (18) 90% soulkey lairtech (2) 10% 20 total votes Your vote: Which will win? (Vote): innovations 2/2 mmmm
(Vote): soulkey lairtech
This poll lacks option: innovation building tank
but . but innovation only needs mines + bio to win .. right?
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:50 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:50 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 18:49 graNite wrote:On August 18 2013 18:47 Packawana wrote:
WCG was actually pretty cool in 2011. Then WCS came along and that pretty much took any strength WCG had left. i remember watching mvp vs xigua on metalopolis with the first mass ghost strategy. nukes and snipes everywhere... good game, but the stream was on potato level quality :'( Dammit, stop reminding me of those awesome days of ghosts being counter to zerg :D yeah that was awful lol
I even feel that one of reasons Mvp's health state has fallen off was because of 'em :D
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what was the point of sora vs parting if they are both going to china?
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:51 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:50 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 18:50 goody153 wrote:so it begins Poll: Which will win?innovations 2/2 mmmm (18) 90% soulkey lairtech (2) 10% 20 total votes Your vote: Which will win? (Vote): innovations 2/2 mmmm
(Vote): soulkey lairtech
This poll lacks option: innovation building tank but . but innovation only needs mines + bio to win .. right?
Game 4 and 5 in them gsl finals
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not really paying attention but "he's got a chance to fuck the trend" made me lol
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:52 partydude89 wrote:
what was the point of sora vs parting if they are both going to china?
Pride + around million won/
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On August 18 2013 18:52 partydude89 wrote:
what was the point of sora vs parting if they are both going to china?
What was the point of maru vs rain if they are both going to germany ?
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On August 18 2013 18:50 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:50 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 18:49 graNite wrote:On August 18 2013 18:47 Packawana wrote:
WCG was actually pretty cool in 2011. Then WCS came along and that pretty much took any strength WCG had left. i remember watching mvp vs xigua on metalopolis with the first mass ghost strategy. nukes and snipes everywhere... good game, but the stream was on potato level quality :'( Dammit, stop reminding me of those awesome days of ghosts being counter to zerg :D yeah that was awful lol
MVP vs. Nestea at blizzard cup comes to mind... *__*
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On August 18 2013 18:50 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:50 goody153 wrote:so it begins Poll: Which will win?innovations 2/2 mmmm (18) 90% soulkey lairtech (2) 10% 20 total votes Your vote: Which will win? (Vote): innovations 2/2 mmmm
(Vote): soulkey lairtech
This poll lacks option: innovation building tank
Not gonna ever happen
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:51 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:50 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 18:49 graNite wrote:On August 18 2013 18:47 Packawana wrote:
WCG was actually pretty cool in 2011. Then WCS came along and that pretty much took any strength WCG had left. i remember watching mvp vs xigua on metalopolis with the first mass ghost strategy. nukes and snipes everywhere... good game, but the stream was on potato level quality :'( Dammit, stop reminding me of those awesome days of ghosts being counter to zerg :D i still go raven ghost in tvz lategame it works if you have more than 50 ghosts
I know, i even use that hotkey trick to make it 100500 times easier, since snipe does not overkill.
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On August 18 2013 18:52 partydude89 wrote:
what was the point of sora vs parting if they are both going to china?
there is some significance in being the korean champion considering the 3 representatives are favorites to take the top 3 spots. there might be some kind of difference in prize money too, but you are right, its not a high stakes match.
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Soulkey really got a chance, he just has to hit different Roach/Bane Timings every game :-P
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On August 18 2013 18:49 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:47 Packawana wrote:
WCG was actually pretty cool in 2011. Then WCS came along and that pretty much took any strength WCG had left. i remember watching mvp vs xigua on metalopolis with the first mass ghost strategy. nukes and snipes everywhere... good game, but the stream was on potato level quality :'(
wcg finals was well after the introduction of ghosts in ZvT, the famous game vs julyzerg was in gsl october and at blizzcon Mvp used them in the last game vs nestea.
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On August 18 2013 18:53 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:51 graNite wrote:On August 18 2013 18:50 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 18:49 graNite wrote:On August 18 2013 18:47 Packawana wrote:
WCG was actually pretty cool in 2011. Then WCS came along and that pretty much took any strength WCG had left. i remember watching mvp vs xigua on metalopolis with the first mass ghost strategy. nukes and snipes everywhere... good game, but the stream was on potato level quality :'( Dammit, stop reminding me of those awesome days of ghosts being counter to zerg :D i still go raven ghost in tvz lategame it works if you have more than 50 ghosts I know, i even use that hotkey trick to make it 100500 times easier, since snipe does not overkill.
exactly that, and you can kill broodlords or infestors so easily when you cast all seeker missiles in the same second
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Lucky Parting avoided all zergs
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seriously i dont see soulkey winning this .. maybe a few months ago .. but today? meh
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:54 goody153 wrote:
seriously i dont see soulkey winning this .. maybe a few months ago .. but today? meh
There are always roach-bane all-ins and his 1-1 timing with speed roach-bane.
EDIT: Wait, wtf, Innovation doing his usual ladder TvZ.
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It was funny because ghosts were practically nerf-able for about six months but for whatever reason the only person who ever bothered to use them were Mvp.
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This qualification is most certainly much more interesting than the WCG itself, which has been basically a joke in my eyes. It's been for some years. Don't think that'll change this year, but whatever.
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Bo3 for the finals feels really strange and anachronistic (especially with it being decided on some stupid in base proxy). Was excited to see more of Sora :-/
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On August 18 2013 18:55 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:54 goody153 wrote:
seriously i dont see soulkey winning this .. maybe a few months ago .. but today? meh There are always roach-bane all-ins and his 1-1 timing with speed roach-bane.
oh . oh .. i forgot about those
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early speed ? i didnt see soulkey scout .. this will probably be a baneling bust timing
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:57 goody153 wrote:
early speed ? i didnt see soulkey scout .. this will probably be a baneling bust timing
Well, i think they meet often enough on ladder. And reaper double expo reactor hellion seems to be usual Innovation's TvZ build on ladder.
But yeah, it smells like roach-bane all-in.
And here we go :D
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dat roach/bane
Soulkey going back to what works
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 18:59 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
dat roach/bane
Soulkey going back to what works
To be fair, this map feels really good for parade push. So roach-bane all-in or other tricky stuff seems to be standard in Soulkey's vT on this map.
Innovation holds. GG. May we move into next game now?
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I don't know why you wouldn't roach/bane innovation every game
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Holds with like 5 marines and 6 helions when it hit, impressive
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Belshiere is a terrible map against terran.
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Take notes MKP, damn. Three bunkers, depots up, retreat up ramp.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:02 RaFox17 wrote:
Belshiere is a terrible map against terran.
Hence the roach bane all-in.
EDIT: WAIT, what the heck, roach speed? Is Soulkey going full Hyun?
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dont worry soulkey .. there is still 1/1 speedroachbane all-in .. you can still win
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lets see if SK can stay even on upgrades now
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On August 18 2013 18:53 Sakkreth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 18:52 partydude89 wrote:
what was the point of sora vs parting if they are both going to china? What was the point of maru vs rain if they are both going to germany ?
Because there is a huge prizepool difference. i asked because i was unsure if there was a lot of cash or so on the line.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:03 Fjodorov wrote:
lets see if SK can stay even on upgrades now
He does not want to stay even on upgrades :D, he seems to be going into roach bane timing :D
Haha, ForGG's widow mine!
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"I don't know if these 20 roaches and 10 banes are going to be able to hold these 15 bio units."
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I haven't seen Soulkey dominate Innovation like this for what seems like an era.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:04 -Kaiser- wrote:
"I don't know if these 20 roaches and 10 banes are going to be able to hold these 15 bio units."
To be fair, it felt like Innovation had a good chance of actually killing all those :D
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damn that reaction from SK. Pullint drones instantly
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"I don't think I've ever seen this kind of aggression from Soulkey is this matchup."
Are you people fucking serious?
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i wish there was a gamesound only stream....
is there a way to filter out all human sounds?
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I'm liking this from Soulkey. Aggression all the time while expanding behind it.
Roach/bane ftw.
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Bogus still isn't down. So absurd.
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On August 18 2013 19:06 -Kaiser- wrote:
"I don't think I've ever seen this kind of aggression from Soulkey is this matchup."
Are you people fucking serious?
and they are telling us how soulkey is crushing inno and the next second inno is up in supply ...
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Soulkey losing here, no gas to tech and the medivacs are building up.
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LOL those marines just don't die against lings.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
And now kids, that's why you do not play without mutas against innovation.
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"It looks like these 7 lings will be able to clean these 6 marines, 20 rallying marines, and 9 medivacs up."
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soulkey playing like a god, innovation wins, nothing new to see
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D:
Soulkey tries so hard. Yet dies so bad.
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Poll: Recommend INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 1?★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (15) 42% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (10) 28% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (4) 11% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (4) 11% ★★★ - Good game (3) 8% 36 total votes Your vote: Recommend INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 1? (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
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Innovation looks ahead to me.
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A wizard. Innovation is a mother fucking wizard.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:09 -Kaiser- wrote:
"It looks like these 7 lings will be able to clean these 6 marines, 20 rallying marines, and 9 medivacs up."
There were freaking 47 of 'em :S
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Such a sick game. Well played by both players.
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whiplash pretty bad at judging who's ahead in the game
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On August 18 2013 19:09 M.R. McThundercrotch wrote:
A wizard. Innovation is a mother fucking wizard.
Yep x_x
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shouldnt soulkey transition to hive tech ? anyways soulkey lost .. as expected .. soulkey is gonna do amazing in the early-midgame and then lose to innovation
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Typical... This matchup is so frustrating sometimes...
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No third, shredded natural, and Innovation still wins? Wat.
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how is that even possible?
how?
what?
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There's a reason why TvZ is like 70% in Korea.....
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Terran is up by 30 supply, an army destroying the Z's third. Commentator: "don't worry, Soulkey is fine, he has a fourth"
wut?!?
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fatal muta switch but the roach/bane/ling was really cool.
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I feel, Innovation vs Soulkey is always almost same thing.
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haha, medivacs > roaches :3
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He's too good. He's just too good.
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what inno does is magical when he's down, it's like only when he's losing does he turn into houdini
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After game recap:
INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 1 Crux Bel'Shir Vestige SE
INnoVation spawns in the 11 o'clock position
Soulkey spawns in the 5 o'clock position
INnoVation opens reaper expand, Soulkey goes 15 hatch.
INnoVation takes another CC and goes into hellions.
Soulkey finishes his ling speed and is droning.
Soulkey stays on 2 base and makes a roach warren and a baneling nest.
INnoVation starts stim, Soulkey produces 9 roaches.
Soulkey moves out with a bunch of roaches and lings.
Soulkey busts the natural wall of INnoVation but 3 bunkers and widow mines hold the line.
INnoVation and Soulkey both go for 1/1 upgrades.
INnoVation starts medivac production and takes his third.
Supplies are slightly in the lead for the terran player.
Soulkey finishes roach speed and bane speed and opts for another attack.
Attack hits the third and kils a lot of workers. Soulkey takes a supply lead.
INnoVation dropping the third of SOulkey. Slugfest between 3M and roach bane.
INnoVation still has a ton of medivacs and takes a supply lead.
INnoVation trades too well and runs through to the natural of Soulkey.
Soulkey taps out. INnoVation takes game one!
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Casters really making that seem more 1 sided than it was. Even after all those attacks innovations supply was just not dropping. At the end innovation had a personal medivac for each marine. No anti air = loss.
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Innovation's control is still outstanding. Any other terran would have died to the roach/bane push.
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If the title wasn't taken by flash I'd say innovation is god.
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The casters are prety bad...
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:09 Aeromi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:09 M.R. McThundercrotch wrote:
A wizard. Innovation is a mother fucking wizard. Yep x_x
Not a real wizardy. Just innovation not dieing when it mattered, while getting his med-v count up. Once you have 17 med-vs your units stop dieing and game ends, should you micro well.
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Another game that proves Soulkey is the better player.
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"Innovation was behind the entire time and wins anyways. Demonstrating his fundamental understanding of Starcraft."
Coincidentally, you're demonstrating your fundamental misunderstanding of Starcraft.
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Soulkey vs Innovation is like new Mvp vs MKP.
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So soulkey is the only player innovation can beat these days?
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On August 18 2013 19:09 Tsubbi wrote:
soulkey playing like a god, innovation wins, nothing new to see
? His decisions to keep sending lings/banes in Bogus' mineral lines and locking 1.2/1.2k for mutas while being hard-pressed were terrible.
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Was it 2-2 for SK and 2 - 1 for innovation in upgrades?
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Did innovation had any economy?? 2-base versus 4-base and you just get rolled.
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On August 18 2013 19:09 Packawana wrote:
No third, shredded natural, and Innovation still wins? Wat.
Medivac count got insane and Soulkey tsayed on low tech with no mutas.
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Russian Federation823 Posts
I don't get why casters are complementing Soulkeys play, it wa obvious that Innovations would win that game.
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On August 18 2013 19:09 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
D:
Soulkey tries so hard. Yet dies so bad.
Yep, making me sad...
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Innovation's 2-2 didn't even finish, SK sniped that. Hey what did we expect:/
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On August 18 2013 19:10 Trius wrote:
Soulkey vs Innovation is like new Mvp vs MKP.
Nah. That's an even more imbalanced matchup. MKP has never beaten MVP in a boX as far as I know :p
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On August 18 2013 19:11 RaFox17 wrote:
Did innovation had any economy?? 2-base versus 4-base and you just get rolled.
As if Soulkey had his fourth saturated...
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No anti air for SK, means medivac count gets uncontrolled= dead
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Too much stupidity here once again. INnoVation fights were always cost efficient due to medivac count and SoulKey was low economy to begin with. Also I really don't understand the muta switch in the end. When the medivac count was too high for him to handle, it was already too late. Also he k ept rallying single Zerglings and roaches into INnoVations army at his own 3rd and threw away the chances he had.
SoulKey should take a more defensive approach with potential smaller runbys. Great game up until a certain point. Brilliant control by INnoVation in nearly every fight.
Also people complaining that ZERG LOST THAT GAME DUE TO THE MATCH UP. You realize SoulKey was more or less allin already with his roach/bane bust vs 3 ccs in the beginning? But keep blaming Terran.
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On August 18 2013 19:10 Trius wrote:
Soulkey vs Innovation is like new Mvp vs MKP.
who is MKP? Did he ever win anything?
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On August 18 2013 19:09 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:09 -Kaiser- wrote:
"It looks like these 7 lings will be able to clean these 6 marines, 20 rallying marines, and 9 medivacs up." There were freaking 47 of 'em :S
the joke still works
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Innovation vs Soulkey starting to get really old when every game is a foregone conclusion.
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it was the usual - kill 2934723423 terran scvs, deny his expansions into terran win
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On August 18 2013 19:10 ReMinD_ wrote:
Another game that proves Soulkey is the better player.
Wut? Soulkey lost the game man. The last few attacks he did were NOT cost effecient. Roaches are a huge double edge sword because if you stay on them too long your asking to lose. The last fight it was roaches vs 10 medivacs, thats not going to go well.
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On August 18 2013 19:11 RaFox17 wrote:
Did innovation had any economy?? 2-base versus 4-base and you just get rolled.
Economy didn't matter when Soulkey was trading resources in a terrible ratio the whole game, even when he did the flanking. The timing of the flank was off, allowing Innovation to spread.
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Poll: What will soulkey do in game 2 ?RoachBane again then lose (7) 78% 6 pool ? (1) 11% 10 pool ?? (1) 11% 9 total votes Your vote: What will soulkey do in game 2 ? (Vote): RoachBane again then lose
(Vote): 6 pool ?
(Vote): 10 pool ??
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On August 18 2013 19:09 ACrow wrote:
Terran is up by 30 supply, an army destroying the Z's third. Commentator: "don't worry, Soulkey is fine, he has a fourth"
wut?!?
yea, not the most analytical pair, my fav casters right now as a pair are idra and khalador.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:11 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:10 Trius wrote:
Soulkey vs Innovation is like new Mvp vs MKP. Nah. That's an even more imbalanced matchup. MKP has never beaten MVP in a boX as far as I know :p
Mvp vs MKP was at least player with mechanics and good usage of brains beating player with simply mechanics. SK vs Bogus seems like player with godly mechanics beating player with no-so-godly mechanics, yet some brilliant ideas.
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Soulkey, throwing away his detection. Not getting anything to hit air. Suiciding units instead of taking free buildings to try and killl....?
Maybe he thought he had a 80 supply lead?
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On August 18 2013 19:10 SsoL wrote:
Innovation's control is still outstanding. Any other terran would have died to the roach/bane push.
Did you not watch Polt vs Jaedong?
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On August 18 2013 19:11 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:10 Trius wrote:
Soulkey vs Innovation is like new Mvp vs MKP. Nah. That's an even more imbalanced matchup. MKP has never beaten MVP in a boX as far as I know :p
I don't think any top player has brutalized another top player (both in their primes) than Mvp vs MKP.
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On August 18 2013 19:13 Fuzzmosis wrote:
Soulkey, throwing away his detection. Not getting anything to hit air. Suiciding units instead of taking free buildings to try and killl....?
Maybe he thought he had a 80 supply lead?
I wouldn't be surprised, the casters seemed to think he did.
"Soulkey was winning that game by any stretch of the imagination."
They just keep fucking going. I liked GOMplayer when I could filter out the pitch of some casters' voices.
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Soulkey did a ling bane roach on lots of eco build... Its weakness is upgrades/medivac for longevity against little staying power of the burst damage army, and a big timing hole between a switch to mutas and/or ultras.
Its physically impossible for terran not to take massive damage to that build, but once they have held, they are often even or ahead. A game where you are only "slightly ahead" with soulkey's style is in reality an even match or playing from behind. Its just the nature of that particular playstyle.
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I really do think infestors into hive is the much much better transition when in SK position. Dunno why we never see infestors. Fungal is till good in alot of situations
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Soulkey started to make some really bad trades half way into the game. Followed by a super risky muta switch and killing 12 SCV's with 8 banelings... T__T
But other than that I feel like this is the superior way to play against MMMM.
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awww poor zergs. So much rage. Even I'm starting to feel bad for them now
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On August 18 2013 19:12 NarutO wrote:
Too much stupidity here once again. INnoVation fights were always cost efficient due to medivac count and SoulKey was low economy to begin with. Also I really don't understand the muta switch in the end. When the medivac count was too high for him to handle, it was already too late. Also he k ept rallying single Zerglings and roaches into INnoVations army at his own 3rd and threw away the chances he had.
SoulKey should take a more defensive approach with potential smaller runbys. Great game up until a certain point. Brilliant control by INnoVation in nearly every fight.
Also people complaining that ZERG LOST THAT GAME DUE TO THE MATCH UP. You realize SoulKey was more or less allin already with his roach/bane bust vs 3 ccs in the beginning? But keep blaming Terran.
Actually agree with this. The commentators were making it seem like Soulkey was on the verge of winning all game. Soulkey should have stopped making roaches after the first attack, he even had the melee attack upgrade. Just go ling bane.
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TvZ in Korea, last three tournaments:
GSL (U&D): 9-4
OSL: 17-7
Proleague: 52-29
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Not sure about this muta switch, being ahead in upgrade he should have pushed for hive while keeping massing ling and blings and going for 3/3. Corruptors would have been better than mutas actually :o
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Innovation was 1-1 the whole time also. Medivacs just negate that upgrade defecit
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On August 18 2013 19:14 MrCon wrote:
Not sure about this muta switch, being ahead in upgrade he should have pushed for hive while keeping massing ling and blings and going for 3/3. Corruptors would have been better than mutas actually :o
same thoughts in my mind .. he would have survived better .. i think he was ahead in upgrades
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Sick back and worth, but actually Soulkey threw that away TT
Soulkey vs Innovation is the most entertaining series :D
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:15 massivez wrote:
Innovation was 1-1 the whole time also. Medivacs just negate that upgrade defecit
was not it 1-2 or 2-1? i had impression that SK only killed 1 e-bay.
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On August 18 2013 19:14 Highways wrote:
TvZ in Korea, last three tournaments:
GSL (U&D): 9-4
OSL: 17-7
Proleague: 52-29
dont worry faster overseer is near, its gonna change everything
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On August 18 2013 19:14 Highways wrote:
TvZ in Korea, last three tournaments:
GSL (U&D): 9-4
OSL: 17-7
Proleague: 52-29
Wonder how many of those are from Innovation.
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On August 18 2013 19:12 xM(Z wrote:
it was the usual - kill 2934723423 terran scvs, deny his expansions into terran win
It was the usual — overcommitment, failed transitions into Zerg tears.
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On August 18 2013 19:15 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:15 massivez wrote:
Innovation was 1-1 the whole time also. Medivacs just negate that upgrade defecit was not it 1-2 or 2-1? i had impression that SK only killed 1 e-bay.
Was 2-1
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On August 18 2013 19:12 monkybone wrote:
need them mutalisks for the medievacs
this roach bane aggression can't last forever.
Well, normally the Zerg seems pretty bad in the later stages of the game, the Roach/Bane aggression seems like the way to go lately :-P
On August 18 2013 19:15 Raambo11 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:14 Highways wrote:
TvZ in Korea, last three tournaments:
GSL (U&D): 9-4
OSL: 17-7
Proleague: 52-29 Wonder how many of those are from Innovation.
GSL (U6D) none
OSL: 5
Proleague: no idea
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On August 18 2013 19:15 massivez wrote:
Innovation was 1-1 the whole time also. Medivacs just negate that upgrade defecit
No, he was +2 on attack.
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On August 18 2013 19:12 NarutO wrote:
Too much stupidity here once again. INnoVation fights were always cost efficient due to medivac count and SoulKey was low economy to begin with. Also I really don't understand the muta switch in the end. When the medivac count was too high for him to handle, it was already too late. Also he k ept rallying single Zerglings and roaches into INnoVations army at his own 3rd and threw away the chances he had.
SoulKey should take a more defensive approach with potential smaller runbys. Great game up until a certain point. Brilliant control by INnoVation in nearly every fight.
Also people complaining that ZERG LOST THAT GAME DUE TO THE MATCH UP. You realize SoulKey was more or less allin already with his roach/bane bust vs 3 ccs in the beginning? But keep blaming Terran.
Blame bad commentators, in these threads people by a large degree base opinions on casters, which is a reasonable thing to do, but during that game they both showed fundamental lack of understanding of what was going on in the game, basically thinking Soulkey was in a game winning position when he wasn't even close to that.
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On August 18 2013 19:15 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:15 massivez wrote:
Innovation was 1-1 the whole time also. Medivacs just negate that upgrade defecit was not it 1-2 or 2-1? i had impression that SK only killed 1 e-bay.
Pretty sure it was 2-1
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On August 18 2013 19:15 Tsubbi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:14 Highways wrote:
TvZ in Korea, last three tournaments:
GSL (U&D): 9-4
OSL: 17-7
Proleague: 52-29 dont worry faster overseer is near, its gonna change everything
Fuck, overseers scare the crap out of me as they are right now, making them faster will give me a heart attack.
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On August 18 2013 19:13 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:11 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On August 18 2013 19:10 Trius wrote:
Soulkey vs Innovation is like new Mvp vs MKP. Nah. That's an even more imbalanced matchup. MKP has never beaten MVP in a boX as far as I know :p Mvp vs MKP was at least player with mechanics and good usage of brains beating player with simply mechanics. SK vs Bogus seems like player with godly mechanics beating player with no-so-godly mechanics, yet some brilliant ideas.
Innovations mechanics is bar none better than any other terran in the world. Against Soulkey's style, if you get hit by one big baneling hit, you are out of the game. Innovation consistently splits and snipes banelings every single time, without fail. No other terran does it nearly as well as he does. Its just hard to appreciate tvz mechanics because splits look so similar nowadays.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:16 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:12 xM(Z wrote:
it was the usual - kill 2934723423 terran scvs, deny his expansions into terran win It was the usual — overcommitment, failed transitions into Zerg tears.
it is hard not to overcommit, when those overcommitments work most of time it seems.
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On August 18 2013 19:15 massivez wrote:
Innovation was 1-1 the whole time also. Medivacs just negate that upgrade defecit
if soulkey only rushed to hive and 3-3 .. he may have been in a better situation ..
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On August 18 2013 19:15 Raambo11 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:14 Highways wrote:
TvZ in Korea, last three tournaments:
GSL (U&D): 9-4
OSL: 17-7
Proleague: 52-29 Wonder how many of those are from Innovation.
It was said only innovation (and maybe flash) could pull of this tvz. Thats obviously false. Any highly skilled terran seems to be able to beat the best zergs in the world pretty easily and I havent seen a zerg win a proper macrogame vs a top-terran in a while now. And i play terran 0_o
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On August 18 2013 19:16 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:12 monkybone wrote:
need them mutalisks for the medievacs
this roach bane aggression can't last forever. Well, normally the Zerg seems pretty bad in the later stages of the game, the Roach/Bane aggression seems like the way to go lately :-P
Yeah, I'm really starting to believe the later the mutas the better lately. I've even seen a little potential in that odd roach/bane/corrputor comp that Yugioh uses tbh.
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soulkey got away with 3 hatch before pool scott free last time they played and was still crushed
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On August 18 2013 19:14 Raambo11 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:12 NarutO wrote:
Too much stupidity here once again. INnoVation fights were always cost efficient due to medivac count and SoulKey was low economy to begin with. Also I really don't understand the muta switch in the end. When the medivac count was too high for him to handle, it was already too late. Also he k ept rallying single Zerglings and roaches into INnoVations army at his own 3rd and threw away the chances he had.
SoulKey should take a more defensive approach with potential smaller runbys. Great game up until a certain point. Brilliant control by INnoVation in nearly every fight.
Also people complaining that ZERG LOST THAT GAME DUE TO THE MATCH UP. You realize SoulKey was more or less allin already with his roach/bane bust vs 3 ccs in the beginning? But keep blaming Terran. Actually agree with this. The commentators were making it seem like Soulkey was on the verge of winning all game. Soulkey should have stopped making roaches after the first attack, he even had the melee attack upgrade. Just go ling bane.
He was on the verge of winning for much of the game, just couldn't do enough damage and then Bogus's more balanced build pulled ahead as the game went longer.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:16 Jombozeus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:13 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:11 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On August 18 2013 19:10 Trius wrote:
Soulkey vs Innovation is like new Mvp vs MKP. Nah. That's an even more imbalanced matchup. MKP has never beaten MVP in a boX as far as I know :p Mvp vs MKP was at least player with mechanics and good usage of brains beating player with simply mechanics. SK vs Bogus seems like player with godly mechanics beating player with no-so-godly mechanics, yet some brilliant ideas. Innovations mechanics is bar none better than any other terran in the world. Against Soulkey's style, if you get hit by one big baneling hit, you are out of the game. Innovation consistently splits and snipes banelings every single time, without fail. No other terran does it nearly as well as he does. Its just hard to appreciate tvz mechanics because splits look so similar nowadays.
I did say that innovation is player with godly mechanics. And i did try marine split challenge and am aware that it is hard as **** to split , macro and other stuff.
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Isn't 3 hatch a pretty standard response to CC first, these days?
I say screw it, go 4 hatch. Gotta go something...
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On August 18 2013 19:17 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:15 massivez wrote:
Innovation was 1-1 the whole time also. Medivacs just negate that upgrade defecit if soulkey only rushed to hive and 3-3 .. he may have been in a better situation ..
or he would have died earlier because he wouldn't have had any units
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On August 18 2013 19:17 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:15 massivez wrote:
Innovation was 1-1 the whole time also. Medivacs just negate that upgrade defecit if soulkey only rushed to hive and 3-3 .. he may have been in a better situation ..
No, he would have died to that same push.
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Poll: Are we gonna see soulkey slow-death animation this game?Yes ! (9) 100% 9 total votes Your vote: Are we gonna see soulkey slow-death animation this game? (Vote): Yes !
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On August 18 2013 19:18 M.R. McThundercrotch wrote:
Isn't 3 hatch a pretty standard response to CC first, these days?
Yes, the casters really have a poor understanding of this game...
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On August 18 2013 19:15 massivez wrote:
Innovation was 1-1 the whole time also. Medivacs just negate that upgrade defecit
this "upgrade deficit" was only the last 2minutes.
But funny is that sk killed ebay 2-3 times and however inno was ahead in upgrades except the last 2minutes and sk was still unable to go hive.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
2 base timing incoming from Innovation.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:19 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:15 massivez wrote:
Innovation was 1-1 the whole time also. Medivacs just negate that upgrade defecit this "upgrade deficit" was only the last 2minutes. But funny is that sk killed ebay 2-3 times and however inno was ahead in upgrades except the last 2minutes and sk was still unable to go hive.
Actually innovation was behind on armor upgrade according to some.
Roach bane, hell yeah! But this time it is against not 3 CC 2 EB. So GG, gratz Inno.
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On August 18 2013 19:17 Snusmumriken wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:15 Raambo11 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:14 Highways wrote:
TvZ in Korea, last three tournaments:
GSL (U&D): 9-4
OSL: 17-7
Proleague: 52-29 Wonder how many of those are from Innovation. It was said only innovation (and maybe flash) could pull of this tvz. Thats obviously false. Any highly skilled terran seems to be able to beat the best zergs in the world pretty easily and I havent seen a zerg win a proper macrogame vs a top-terran in a while now. And i play terran 0_o
Saw how MKP looked vs SoulKey, but I guess MKP is completely unskilled to begin with :[
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fast +1 attack from innovation .. poor soulkey
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this time soulkey gets lings in position to morph banes way quickers but inno goes for 2 base timing, this is gonna be strange
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does the obs not notice that it is zoomed in?
i get angrier the more i watch this crap! such great players and they ruin everything with the casters and the bad observer
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this camera angle is really ticking me off gogo inno!
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These casters have no idea. Last game the amount of medivacs helped INnoVation and made him win the game. Soulkey was not unusually aggressive. INnoVation did NOT hit any timing.
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It seems like only Bomber doesn't know how to play tvz nowadays
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:20 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:17 Snusmumriken wrote:On August 18 2013 19:15 Raambo11 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:14 Highways wrote:
TvZ in Korea, last three tournaments:
GSL (U&D): 9-4
OSL: 17-7
Proleague: 52-29 Wonder how many of those are from Innovation. It was said only innovation (and maybe flash) could pull of this tvz. Thats obviously false. Any highly skilled terran seems to be able to beat the best zergs in the world pretty easily and I havent seen a zerg win a proper macrogame vs a top-terran in a while now. And i play terran 0_o Saw how MKP looked vs SoulKey, but I guess MKP is completely unskilled to begin with :[
Failed 8-8-8 and roach bane all-in with poor defence.
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Well that's gg well played Innovation
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"Soulkey takes a /huge/ lead."
Sorry, I just assumed they said that.
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On August 18 2013 19:20 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:19 Dingodile wrote:On August 18 2013 19:15 massivez wrote:
Innovation was 1-1 the whole time also. Medivacs just negate that upgrade defecit this "upgrade deficit" was only the last 2minutes. But funny is that sk killed ebay 2-3 times and however inno was ahead in upgrades except the last 2minutes and sk was still unable to go hive. Actually innovation was behind on armor upgrade according to some.
yes inno had 2-1 and the last 2minutes sk got 2-2.
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lol innovation makes holding this look so easy!
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On August 18 2013 19:22 Trius wrote:
It seems like only Bomber doesn't know how to play tvz nowadays
At least its on par with PartingvZ
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:22 umelbumel wrote:
well. this was boring.
Sad truth of InnovationVsZ nowadays.
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Looks like Bogus has found Soulkey aggression predictable?
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I dont know if its InnovationvZ or TvZ, but games like the one on Bel Shir make me sad :/
and it wasnt even 3/3 marines...
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:22 AzBozz wrote:
lol innovation makes holding this look so easy!
He did not go for 3 OC 2EB, i would be amased if Inno would not hold.
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On August 18 2013 19:22 Aunvilgod wrote:
These casters have no idea. Last game the amount of medivacs helped INnoVation and made him win the game. Soulkey was not unusually aggressive. INnoVation did NOT hit any timing.
hmm I kinda feel he did hit a timing because had he not done that attack and killed SK at that time I thik SK would have won because innovations economy was damaged, he was behind on upgrades so a 3-3 ultra army would have crushed him eventually.
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On August 18 2013 19:22 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:22 Trius wrote:
It seems like only Bomber doesn't know how to play tvz nowadays At least its on par with PartingvZ
PartingvZ was even worse, i think.
But maybe he finally found an answer? I want to believe
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:24 Fjodorov wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:22 Aunvilgod wrote:
These casters have no idea. Last game the amount of medivacs helped INnoVation and made him win the game. Soulkey was not unusually aggressive. INnoVation did NOT hit any timing. hmm I kinda feel he did hit a timing because had he not done that attack and killed SK at that time I thik SK would have won because innovations economy was damaged, he was behind on upgrades so a 3-3 ultra army would have crushed him eventually.
It was not any kind of timing though. It was simply 'go fucking kill him' in head of Innovation.
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Soulkey not reinforcing with roaches this time, like it a lot better.
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Innovation just looks untouchable in tvz. It just doesn't matter what you do, Innovation will just win anyway.
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On August 18 2013 19:23 lolfail9001 wrote:Sad truth of InnovationVsZ nowadays.
I was so hyped everytime InnovationVz happens this past few months .. but nowadays ? meh
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On August 18 2013 19:22 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:20 NarutO wrote:On August 18 2013 19:17 Snusmumriken wrote:On August 18 2013 19:15 Raambo11 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:14 Highways wrote:
TvZ in Korea, last three tournaments:
GSL (U&D): 9-4
OSL: 17-7
Proleague: 52-29 Wonder how many of those are from Innovation. It was said only innovation (and maybe flash) could pull of this tvz. Thats obviously false. Any highly skilled terran seems to be able to beat the best zergs in the world pretty easily and I havent seen a zerg win a proper macrogame vs a top-terran in a while now. And i play terran 0_o Saw how MKP looked vs SoulKey, but I guess MKP is completely unskilled to begin with :[ Failed 8-8-8 and roach bane all-in with poor defence.
Your point? SoulKey failed roach bane vs 3 CC, still makes a macro game which he should have lost way earlier. In addition, INnoVation also won against SoulKey in WoL 4-0. Did it ever cross your mind that INnoVation might be superior to begin with?-_- Because it seems SoulKey can stand his own ground vs pretty much all other Terrans.
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A question for the real pros: does a reaper get healed twice as fast if there's a medivac + his ability working?
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On August 18 2013 19:24 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:24 Fjodorov wrote:On August 18 2013 19:22 Aunvilgod wrote:
These casters have no idea. Last game the amount of medivacs helped INnoVation and made him win the game. Soulkey was not unusually aggressive. INnoVation did NOT hit any timing. hmm I kinda feel he did hit a timing because had he not done that attack and killed SK at that time I thik SK would have won because innovations economy was damaged, he was behind on upgrades so a 3-3 ultra army would have crushed him eventually. that's not what a timing is, innovation went to pressure as soon as he could and it did a lot of damage. doesn't mean it's a timing a timing is a strategically planned attack with purpose to punish certain choices of the opponent, I'd say
he skipped 3/3 to go for a push, I guess u could call it a timing
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On August 18 2013 19:26 juvenal wrote:
A question for the real pros: does a reaper get healed twice as fast if there's a medivac + his ability working?
Only real pros know this. Casuals, don't you dare answer.
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If he had made roaches after the attack like game 1 he would have already lost
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On August 18 2013 19:26 juvenal wrote:
A question for the real pros: does a reaper get healed twice as fast if there's a medivac + his ability working?
I dont know for sure, but I think yes. There is no reason that it shouldnt.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:25 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:20 NarutO wrote:On August 18 2013 19:17 Snusmumriken wrote:On August 18 2013 19:15 Raambo11 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:14 Highways wrote:
TvZ in Korea, last three tournaments:
GSL (U&D): 9-4
OSL: 17-7
Proleague: 52-29 Wonder how many of those are from Innovation. It was said only innovation (and maybe flash) could pull of this tvz. Thats obviously false. Any highly skilled terran seems to be able to beat the best zergs in the world pretty easily and I havent seen a zerg win a proper macrogame vs a top-terran in a while now. And i play terran 0_o Saw how MKP looked vs SoulKey, but I guess MKP is completely unskilled to begin with :[ Failed 8-8-8 and roach bane all-in with poor defence. Your point? SoulKey failed roach bane vs 3 CC, still makes a macro game which he should have lost way earlier. In addition, INnoVation also won against SoulKey in WoL 4-0. Did it ever cross your mind that INnoVation might be superior to begin with?-_- Because it seems SoulKey can stand his own ground vs pretty much all other Terrans.
I am aware that Innovation never lost against Soulkey in WoL. Only thing that crosses my mind is that Innovation in HotS is some kind of a robot designed to crush zergs in TvZ :D.
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WOW LOOK! You can actually win an engagement vs biomine, who would have thought!
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
Lol, innovation simply stopped splitting to give Soulkey a chance :D
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Oh shit the game isn't over. Soulkey is somehow still alive.
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SK playing well but he forgot to tech for 3-3
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did inno lose his 4th to 6 lings?
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This is going to turn into a series of throws isn't it?
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3-3 against 2-2.
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wait .. soulkey is doing good ..
innovation is probably trolling .. and waiting for 3/3 ..
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uh this is gonna be ugly
3-3 before hive is done
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On August 18 2013 19:28 graNite wrote:did inno lose his 4th to 6 lings?
Yes.
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But 3/3 is done... doesn't matter anymore that SoulKey caught up :-/
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On August 18 2013 19:25 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:20 NarutO wrote:On August 18 2013 19:17 Snusmumriken wrote:On August 18 2013 19:15 Raambo11 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:14 Highways wrote:
TvZ in Korea, last three tournaments:
GSL (U&D): 9-4
OSL: 17-7
Proleague: 52-29 Wonder how many of those are from Innovation. It was said only innovation (and maybe flash) could pull of this tvz. Thats obviously false. Any highly skilled terran seems to be able to beat the best zergs in the world pretty easily and I havent seen a zerg win a proper macrogame vs a top-terran in a while now. And i play terran 0_o Saw how MKP looked vs SoulKey, but I guess MKP is completely unskilled to begin with :[ Failed 8-8-8 and roach bane all-in with poor defence. Your point? SoulKey failed roach bane vs 3 CC, still makes a macro game which he should have lost way earlier. In addition, INnoVation also won against SoulKey in WoL 4-0. Did it ever cross your mind that INnoVation might be superior to begin with?-_- Because it seems SoulKey can stand his own ground vs pretty much all other Terrans.
oh cmon man stats in korea tell everything, stop being so defensive all the time its objectively obvious that the matchup has problems atm, it might change quickly due to new build / patches but right now why dont you just accept what is happening in korea
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On August 18 2013 19:28 graNite wrote:did inno lose his 4th to 6 lings?
No time to look away. /:
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wow huge clean-up for SoulKey. Now he can sit back and tech a lil bit
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It's so difficult to keep up with terran's upgrades... That's what kills zergs.
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On August 18 2013 19:29 Tsubbi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:25 NarutO wrote:On August 18 2013 19:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:20 NarutO wrote:On August 18 2013 19:17 Snusmumriken wrote:On August 18 2013 19:15 Raambo11 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:14 Highways wrote:
TvZ in Korea, last three tournaments:
GSL (U&D): 9-4
OSL: 17-7
Proleague: 52-29 Wonder how many of those are from Innovation. It was said only innovation (and maybe flash) could pull of this tvz. Thats obviously false. Any highly skilled terran seems to be able to beat the best zergs in the world pretty easily and I havent seen a zerg win a proper macrogame vs a top-terran in a while now. And i play terran 0_o Saw how MKP looked vs SoulKey, but I guess MKP is completely unskilled to begin with :[ Failed 8-8-8 and roach bane all-in with poor defence. Your point? SoulKey failed roach bane vs 3 CC, still makes a macro game which he should have lost way earlier. In addition, INnoVation also won against SoulKey in WoL 4-0. Did it ever cross your mind that INnoVation might be superior to begin with?-_- Because it seems SoulKey can stand his own ground vs pretty much all other Terrans. oh cmon man stats in korea tell everything, stop being so defensive all the time its objectively obvious that the matchup has problems atm, it might change quickly due to new build / patches but right now why dont you just accept what is happening in korea
Because it seems to happen around INnoVation and Flash and not all too much on every level. Why do I even argue with you? You said Zerg was underpowered in WoL with broodlord/infestor, so you are clearly out of it.
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Russian Federation823 Posts
Again: they really think that SK can win this...
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I think Soulkey has too many mutas, that eats into his combat power.
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On August 18 2013 19:30 calh wrote:
I think Soulkey has too many mutas, that eats into his combat power.
I don't think you can have too many mutas.
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Soulkey's multitask is above Innovation's, but match-up just sucks.
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soulkey trying to fight up the high ground vs bogus again :|
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On August 18 2013 19:31 Blaec wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:30 calh wrote:
I think Soulkey has too many mutas, that eats into his combat power. I don't think you can have too many mutas.
The thing is that widow mines make huge muta flocks kind of useless since you can't be that aggressive with them. A couple infestors would improve the defense, and the offense/harrass would be not much worse.
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is innovation trolling ? or soulkey is just doing really good?
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:33 goody153 wrote:
is innovation trolling ? or soulkey is just doing really good?
innovation trolling.
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I think not getting ultra's is a great idea. Getting more ling muta bane is better i think.
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On August 18 2013 19:30 kusto wrote:
Again: they really think that SK can win this...
i wanted to say "they have to say that to make it interesting and entertaining for us", but then i realized they are just bad casters. i dont want to sound too hardsh, thats why i only say "bad"
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Inno alredy got his 5th base before Soulkey... Looking very bad even tho Soulkey is playing so incredibly well.
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SK playing like a boss tho
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On August 18 2013 19:30 kusto wrote:
Again: they really think that SK can win this...
What? It's been quite an even game for a while now.
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On August 18 2013 19:32 calh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:31 Blaec wrote:On August 18 2013 19:30 calh wrote:
I think Soulkey has too many mutas, that eats into his combat power. I don't think you can have too many mutas. The thing is that widow mines make huge muta flocks kind of useless since you can't be that aggressive with them. A couple infestors would improve the defense, and the offense/harrass would be not much worse.
Nah mutas are too flexible.
And as long as you keep an overseer with them they can 1 hit mines before they shoot. Even if they do shoot they only kill one muta unless 3/4? mines go off.
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Ultralisks.. Prepare for soulkey to die!
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Why do they zoom out so much It adds nothing, on the contrary, you couldn't see how well Innovation split.
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This is the best game between these guys I've ever seen. Insane play from both.
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He's needed Ultras for like 10 minutes now but he just doesn't have the economy for it! Arg!
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Maybe the answer soulkey needs is infestor. Ling bling muta doesn't really work even if you have godly micro because terran composition is just too cost efficient every single time if you micro. He's banking gas and he definitely can't go ultras because he'll just die if he stops making units.
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does he have any armor on mutas? or are they 3 - 0?
edit: ah they just showed it. 3 - 0
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SoulKey holds the 4th yet again. This game looks like the one on Whirlwind when Bogus kept rallying unit until SoulKey gg'd
So tense!
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So I seem to have awoken to a familiar sight, that being Soulkey once again being the best Zerg in the world, yet still having to mark his achievements by how long he can survive vs. Innovation.
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MULES too good in low eco situations...
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70 supply lead for inno and they only talk about the muta numbers...
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:38 sparklyresidue wrote:
So I seem to have awoken to a familiar sight, that being Soulkey once again being the best Zerg in the world, yet still having to mark his achievements by how long he can survive vs. Innovation.
Sad truth of InnovationVsZerg. If it looks like you win against him, it is only because you are losing.
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innovation is trolling to give us great games
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On August 18 2013 19:38 Arco wrote:
MULES too good in low eco situations...
please dont forget that mules dont give more minerals, they just make them available earlier
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Russian Federation823 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:38 ONEofUS wrote:
bogus won long time ago
True, like 7-8min ago. I don't know how anyone can say it was even.
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On August 18 2013 19:37 RaFox17 wrote:
SK is quite dead.
he's been dead for over 20 mins. Just putting on a good show for the punters, which is very nice of him
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Terran units too cheap and cost efficient for Soulkey to survive this.
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Poll: Recommend INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 2?★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (27) 52% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (11) 21% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (7) 13% ★★★ - Good game (6) 12% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1) 2% 52 total votes Your vote: Recommend INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 2? (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
Poll: Recommend INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 3?★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (11) 39% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (8) 29% ★★★ - Good game (4) 14% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3) 11% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2) 7% 28 total votes Your vote: Recommend INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 3? (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
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this was maybe the biggest fungal in pro games ever?
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Aww that engage was virtually perfect for Soulkey, but just so down on units.
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heartbreaking loss -_- soulkey finally gets a game where he lives to hive but his economy is just so much worse it doesn't matter.
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holy shit. that was the biggest fungal i have ever seen
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WOW!!!! Inspirational play from Innovation holy shit!
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
That was anti-climatic with ultras dieing to unit they are countering :D
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MULES definitely don't skip leg day.
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Mines and medivac boost make me feel like maybe Infestors can be unnerfed.
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After game recap:
INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 2 Derelict Watcher
INnoVation spawns in the 7 o'clock position
Soulkey spawns in the 1 o'clock position
Soulkey goes 15 hatch, 15cc for INnoVation.
Soulkey goes quick 3 hatch. INnoVation goes into a factory.
Double hellion production started for INnoVation.
Ling speed and a roach warren for Soulkey.
+1 attack and stim for INnoVation and double medivac production.
Soulkey goes for another roach bane bust.
INnoVation holds easily with widow mines and well placed bunkers.
INnoVation takes a supply lead. Soulkey starts 1/1 and bane speed.
INnoVation starts 2/2. INnoVation has a 25 supply lead (177 tot 150).
INnoVation moves out to Soulkey's natural but is easily fended off by Soulkey's ling/bling muta force.
Constant battle between INnoVation's widow mine 3M force and Soulkey's ling/bling mutas.
Both players maxed out and on 4 bases. Soulkey getting back into it with good trades and has a supply lead.
Soulkey picks off the fourth of INnoVation. So does INnoVation but Soulkey has another base in the 5 o'clock position.
Soulkey adds a couple of infestors. INnoVation retakes his old fourth and has another base up (7 o'clock).
INnoVation making better and better trades and is 50 supply up. Soulkey starting ultra production.
INnoVation has a ton of marines and is hitting the fourth of Soulkey. He takes out the hatchery.
Soulkey GGs. INnoVation qualifies for WCG 2013!
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It is painful to watch....
It feels soulkey has no answer when he fight against innovation..
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sad for Soulkey, even as a Terran fan.
Amazing game.
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Soulkey lasted longer than last time.
Maybe he is getting the hang of it.
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it's just so rare for two guys to consistently play great, close games only to have one of them win just about every single game
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Fantastic series. Innovation vs Soulkey always delivers.
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Innovaion vs Soulkey always delivers entertaining matches. Wish they could both advance though
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:40 ReachTheSky wrote:
WOW!!!! Inspirational play from Innovation holy shit!
You mean? He was just trolling Soulkey from the moment he held roach-bane.
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The sulking Soulkey in Seoulcity lol ;o © Montecristo
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z v t really need some fixing
first of all, its been boring, only one playout, MMM vs Muta ling bling,
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On August 18 2013 19:40 lolfail9001 wrote:
That was anti-climatic with ultras dieing to unit they are countering :D
Wow, 3 ultras lose to 90 Marines 15 Mines? Sure something must be broken.
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Innovations TvZ is so good its not even fun to watch
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On August 18 2013 19:40 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:39 graNite wrote:On August 18 2013 19:38 Arco wrote:
MULES too good in low eco situations... please dont forget that mules dont give more minerals, they just make them available earlier lmao
?
this is not funny at all
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It was a fun game but I just wish it wasnt so obvious that innovation is going to win, just a matter of how long SK can survive. Its a shame when both players are so good.
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lol Innovation doesn't give a fuck man. as soon as you pick zerg, you're fucked.
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On August 18 2013 19:34 Blaec wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:32 calh wrote:On August 18 2013 19:31 Blaec wrote:On August 18 2013 19:30 calh wrote:
I think Soulkey has too many mutas, that eats into his combat power. I don't think you can have too many mutas. The thing is that widow mines make huge muta flocks kind of useless since you can't be that aggressive with them. A couple infestors would improve the defense, and the offense/harrass would be not much worse. Nah mutas are too flexible. And as long as you keep an overseer with them they can 1 hit mines before they shoot. Even if they do shoot they only kill one muta unless 3/4? mines go off.
True that they only kills 1 muta each, but the rest will have to rest up, which reduces their resource efficiency immensely. If you recall the WoL games, mutas were used with a much higher tempo. The return on investment when increasing muta count plateaus out much earlier in HotS. Unless Blizzard intervenes, Zergs will have to find out the ideal flock size to snipe medivacs and harrass here and there without dedicating too much gas and supply.
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"inno has cheaper and more cost effective units" - end of story
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does WCG Korea give WCS points?
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It looks like Soulkey has to play so much better than Innovation to win. It's probably not true, but it sure looks like it.
These are the best two players in the world imo...
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Russian Federation823 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:41 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:40 monkybone wrote:On August 18 2013 19:39 graNite wrote:On August 18 2013 19:38 Arco wrote:
MULES too good in low eco situations... please dont forget that mules dont give more minerals, they just make them available earlier lmao ? this is not funny at all
It's so fucking wrong it's not even funny.
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United States33330 Posts
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Soulkey outplayed Innovation so bad in that derelict watcher game. Honestly, Terran is so hard to play vs P, and TvT is really hard, but TvZ seems genuinely broken.
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On August 18 2013 19:40 -Kaiser- wrote:
Mines and medivac boost make me feel like maybe Infestors can be unnerfed.
uhhmmm .. NO ! seriously innovation is just crazy good in tvz .. i dont even think he ever lost in a macro for a veerrryy long time
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:41 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:40 lolfail9001 wrote:
That was anti-climatic with ultras dieing to unit they are countering :D Wow, 3 ultras lose to 90 Marines 15 Mines? Sure something must be broken.
Nah, no balance context meant.
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Soulkey is so good, unfortunately Innovation is not a human being and as such can not be beaten by a mere mortal. Zergs just should give up against Inno.
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innovation too good~ soulkey still showing his skill as best zerg in the world but needs to stop running into innovation during tournaments
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On August 18 2013 19:42 Megapenthes wrote:
Soulkey outplayed Innovation so bad in that derelict watcher game.
How so?
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Man, if only the spire upgraded into producing a siege Unit that does great against entrenched positions, like large terran ground armies. If only they would force things like retreats or pushes forward into the banelings that are struggling to connect!
Why did Brood Lords disappear?
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Don't worry Soulkey. In just 6 months Blizzard will fix this match-up and then Innovation will be in your shoes.
Anyway, this set should trigger at least another 4-5 pages of TvZ discussions in balance thread.
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Fun games, enjoyed LRing!
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On August 18 2013 19:40 Fuell wrote:Poll: Recommend INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 2?★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (27) 52% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (11) 21% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (7) 13% ★★★ - Good game (6) 12% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1) 2% 52 total votes Your vote: Recommend INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 2? (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
Poll: Recommend INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 3?★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year (11) 39% ★ - Do not see this game no matter what (8) 29% ★★★ - Good game (4) 14% ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3) 11% ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2) 7% 28 total votes Your vote: Recommend INnoVation vs Soulkey Game 3? (Vote): ★ - Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★ - Good game
(Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games of the year
People stop making shit up. Make proper polls. Anyone with half a brain will get spoilers from the last poll as there are as much votes for best game of the year and dont watch this no matter what.
Yes, No, If you have time. Geez...
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On August 18 2013 19:42 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:40 -Kaiser- wrote:
Mines and medivac boost make me feel like maybe Infestors can be unnerfed. uhhmmm .. NO ! seriously innovation is just crazy good in tvz .. i dont even think he ever lost in a macro for a veerrryy long time
Unfortunately this same scenario plays out in all top-level Z v T matches.
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game is fking broken, t>>>>>>>>>z, p>>>>>>>>>>>>>t
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 18 2013 19:42 Megapenthes wrote:
Soulkey outplayed Innovation so bad in that derelict watcher game. Honestly, Terran is so hard to play vs P, and TvT is really hard, but TvZ seems genuinely broken.
wrong, Inno was just trolling, around 20min zerg dead animation without seeing clear on it.
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On August 18 2013 19:42 gophario wrote:
Soulkey is so good, unfortunately Innovation is not a human being and as such can not be beaten by a mere mortal. Zergs just should give up against Inno.
wait for blizzard to nerf innovation .. he cant just give up yet
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Soulkey vs Innovation reminds me of the 4-0 Polt vs Jaedong.
The games looks similar . . the score too
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Soulkey played so good, doing good trades, surviving the pressure from Innovation. But it doesn't matter against Innovation, he just keeps on building marines.
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On August 18 2013 19:42 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:40 -Kaiser- wrote:
Mines and medivac boost make me feel like maybe Infestors can be unnerfed. uhhmmm .. NO ! seriously innovation is just crazy good in tvz .. i dont even think he ever lost in a macro for a veerrryy long time
If you think it's only Innovation that is winning vs zerg atm then you must be blind.
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On August 18 2013 19:42 Megapenthes wrote:
Soulkey outplayed Innovation so bad in that derelict watcher game. Honestly, Terran is so hard to play vs P, and TvT is really hard, but TvZ seems genuinely broken.
Well he kinda had to, if he even wanted a chance, considering his roach-bane failed miserably. At least Soulkey can still enjoy the only time he beat Bogus was the most important (thus far).
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Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys.
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On August 18 2013 19:43 Fuzzmosis wrote:
Man, if only the spire upgraded into producing a siege Unit that does great against entrenched positions, like large terran ground armies. If only they would force things like retreats or pushes forward into the banelings that are struggling to connect!
Why did Brood Lords disappear?
Did you see how long it took SK to get Ultras out? It's a matter of getting to Hive and then getting Greater Spire and then getting Corruptors and then buying time for those to morph into Broods. They do definitely still exist (Scarlett vs. aLive) but it's insanely hard to tech to Hive and do anything besides 3/3 and Adrenal Glands if you're under constant pressure.
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On August 18 2013 19:30 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:29 Tsubbi wrote:On August 18 2013 19:25 NarutO wrote:On August 18 2013 19:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:20 NarutO wrote:On August 18 2013 19:17 Snusmumriken wrote:On August 18 2013 19:15 Raambo11 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:14 Highways wrote:
TvZ in Korea, last three tournaments:
GSL (U&D): 9-4
OSL: 17-7
Proleague: 52-29 Wonder how many of those are from Innovation. It was said only innovation (and maybe flash) could pull of this tvz. Thats obviously false. Any highly skilled terran seems to be able to beat the best zergs in the world pretty easily and I havent seen a zerg win a proper macrogame vs a top-terran in a while now. And i play terran 0_o Saw how MKP looked vs SoulKey, but I guess MKP is completely unskilled to begin with :[ Failed 8-8-8 and roach bane all-in with poor defence. Your point? SoulKey failed roach bane vs 3 CC, still makes a macro game which he should have lost way earlier. In addition, INnoVation also won against SoulKey in WoL 4-0. Did it ever cross your mind that INnoVation might be superior to begin with?-_- Because it seems SoulKey can stand his own ground vs pretty much all other Terrans. oh cmon man stats in korea tell everything, stop being so defensive all the time its objectively obvious that the matchup has problems atm, it might change quickly due to new build / patches but right now why dont you just accept what is happening in korea Because it seems to happen around INnoVation and Flash and not all too much on every level. Why do I even argue with you? You said Zerg was underpowered in WoL with broodlord/infestor, so you are clearly out of it.
Of course not on all levels, but on the higher levels (later stages of WCS NA/EU + WCS KR) Terran do VERY well against Zerg and that's simply a fact. If the Zerg doesn't destroy the Terran with a Roach/Bane all in, the win% are horrifically low, imo.
INnoVation is great, won't argue against that, but the style itself seems to be really hard to counter, simply because the Zerg can't really do anything to stabalize during the entire game and are forced to stay in a purely defensive position where the first mistake just crushes everything.
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On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys.
Yes, we saw Jaedong blundering away huge leads—so?
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:44 BBV wrote:
game is fking broken, t>>>>>>>>>z, p>>>>>>>>>>>>>t
Have you seen the last OSL and the last GSL?
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need lurker to stop this crap
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On August 18 2013 19:44 DrPandaPhD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:42 goody153 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:40 -Kaiser- wrote:
Mines and medivac boost make me feel like maybe Infestors can be unnerfed. uhhmmm .. NO ! seriously innovation is just crazy good in tvz .. i dont even think he ever lost in a macro for a veerrryy long time If you think it's only Innovation that is winning vs zerg atm then you must be blind.
i know .. tvz winrates are pretty good this time around .. but infestors are probably not the best choice to unnerf/buff .. you could probably buff z in other means not just the derpfestors
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The only way SK can win is when inno is having a bad day,, man what could he have done that was better? As a spectator it feels like the zerg is sending its units to an endless meatgrinder that doesn't end well and the T producing non stop even with its workers ravaged from all angles.
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:46 BBV wrote:
need lurker to stop this crap
Totally agree with this. Lurker is in my mind for the last couple of weeks
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:46 BBV wrote:
need lurker to stop this crap
Ironically, though i am against all those 'bring lurker back' cries, it really feels like lurker is the actual solution to this bio-mine stuff. But then again, there are marauders so you never know.
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On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys.
He played superbly. Perfect micro, perfect macro. Not sure why terran players would not appreciate such exceptional play.
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Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken.
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On August 18 2013 19:45 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. Yes, we saw Jaedong blundering away huge leads—so?
Just like how Soulkey 'blundered' away game one I assume?
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On August 18 2013 19:46 BBV wrote:
need lurker to stop this crap
Need dark swarm and PLAGUUUUUUU. I swear they need the latter badly!
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On August 18 2013 19:46 BBV wrote:
need lurker to stop this crap
Dark Swarm would be nice, too.
I feel that Zerg has to take a significant lead and break the Terran's back with Ling/Bane/Muta, otherwise 3/3 and solid economy from Terran means it's gg.
On August 18 2013 19:48 YyapSsap wrote:Need dark swarm and PLAGUUUUUUU. I swear they need the latter badly!
Seriously. Plague would be amazing.
On August 18 2013 19:49 DrPandaPhD wrote:No Blizzard just fucked up and game zerg lategame units but nothing early/midgame in HotS. So they are stuck with ling/bling/muta vs a new unit terran got which counters all 3 of them. Plus the fact that Widow Mines alone make it hard to harass a terran because you just need them in the mineral line to scare mutas off. Widow mines just became too all-purpose vs zerg whereas Swarm host / viper doesn't really help zerg midgame cause it takes too long to get to them.
It'd be nice if Widow Mines and Photon Overcharge couldn't hit air.
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On August 18 2013 19:46 BBV wrote:
need lurker to stop this crap
No Blizzard just fucked up and game zerg lategame units but nothing early/midgame in HotS. So they are stuck with ling/bling/muta vs a new unit terran got which counters all 3 of them. Plus the fact that Widow Mines alone make it hard to harass a terran because you just need them in the mineral line to scare mutas off. Widow mines just became too all-purpose vs zerg whereas Swarm host / viper doesn't really help zerg midgame cause it takes too long to get to them.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:48 YyapSsap wrote:Need dark swarm and PLAGUUUUUUU. I swear they need the latter badly!
You are not going to survive until hive :D, so defiler won't help D:
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On August 18 2013 19:45 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. Yes, we saw Jaedong blundering away huge leads—so?
No, Jaedong played exactly the same as Soulkey today.
And, Polt played exactly the same as Innovation today.
Maybe not exactly kekekkekeke
But, at least I dont see the difference..
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The amount of whining Zergs in this thread is hilarious. Yes, Terran may be a tad favoured but its not that bad. Also INnoVation has always been beating Soulkey in macro games.
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On August 18 2013 19:42 Megapenthes wrote:
Soulkey outplayed Innovation so bad in that derelict watcher game
??? I think Soulkey played great after his failed semi all in but I'm not sure which game you were watching to say Innovation got outplayed badly. What did Innovation do that you'd consider bad? He played amazingly.
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On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken.
Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better ))))))
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On August 18 2013 19:47 lolfail9001 wrote:Ironically, though i am against all those 'bring lurker back' cries, it really feels like lurker is the actual solution to this bio-mine stuff. But then again, there are marauders so you never know.
didnt they test lurkers in the wol alpha ? .. but didnt work out because of the unit pathing ?
they said lurkers were only good in BroodWar because of the poor unit pathing for broodwar
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:48 Megiddosc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:45 TheDwf wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. Yes, we saw Jaedong blundering away huge leads—so? Just like how Soulkey 'blundered' away game one I assume?
Sad truth: spectators after watching InnoVsSK will feel like SK was better than Inno in a game (seriously, that engagement SK actually took in his favor was basically Innovation checking out twitter or stuff like that). GM terrans will know that they actually lose to zergs on ladder, so MU is balanced :D
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On August 18 2013 19:50 spalding wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:42 Megapenthes wrote:
Soulkey outplayed Innovation so bad in that derelict watcher game ??? I think Soulkey played great after his failed semi all in but I'm not sure which game you were watching to say Innovation got outplayed badly. What did Innovation do that you'd consider bad? He played amazingly.
He let his 4th die to lings, that was a pretty big mistake.
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On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better ))))))
+ Show Spoiler +
Funny because it's true.
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On August 18 2013 19:51 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:48 Megiddosc wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 TheDwf wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. Yes, we saw Jaedong blundering away huge leads—so? Just like how Soulkey 'blundered' away game one I assume? Sad truth: spectators after watching InnoVsSK will feel like SK was better than Inno in a game (seriously, that engagement SK actually took in his favor was basically Innovation checking out twitter or stuff like that). GM terrans will know that they actually lose to zergs on ladder, so MU is balanced :D
So what is the sad truth?
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Innovation doesn't impress me at all.
Soulkey was playing waaay better and still got rolled.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:51 Arco wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) + Show Spoiler +Funny because it's true.
What's more funny is Xenocider doing proxy reapers :D
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:52 XiaoJoyce- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:51 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:48 Megiddosc wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 TheDwf wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. Yes, we saw Jaedong blundering away huge leads—so? Just like how Soulkey 'blundered' away game one I assume? Sad truth: spectators after watching InnoVsSK will feel like SK was better than Inno in a game (seriously, that engagement SK actually took in his favor was basically Innovation checking out twitter or stuff like that). GM terrans will know that they actually lose to zergs on ladder, so MU is balanced :D So what is the sad truth?
Everyone will think that he is right. And he freaking is.
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On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better ))))))
Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T
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On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better ))))))
That is correct.
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On August 18 2013 19:45 sparklyresidue wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:43 Fuzzmosis wrote:
Man, if only the spire upgraded into producing a siege Unit that does great against entrenched positions, like large terran ground armies. If only they would force things like retreats or pushes forward into the banelings that are struggling to connect!
Why did Brood Lords disappear? Did you see how long it took SK to get Ultras out? It's a matter of getting to Hive and then getting Greater Spire and then getting Corruptors and then buying time for those to morph into Broods. They do definitely still exist (Scarlett vs. aLive) but it's insanely hard to tech to Hive and do anything besides 3/3 and Adrenal Glands if you're under constant pressure.
Clearly the solution was to tech to Hive and make Ultralisks, which he successfully did. Then exploded.
Soulkey appears to make 3 units as Zerg. Now I can't deny that when he tech switched he completely died. Maybe once you press back a bit, he could work on not over extending and use the time to actually tech up. Maybe when he's Mutalisk harassing, he can send one out ahead of the pack to see if there are widow mines about to murder him instead of constantly risking the whole flock. Sacrifice 100/100 not 500/500 and free damage.
Maybe he needed better control. Maybe he needed a better tactic. I'm just wondering why he didn't try the unit that forces the tech switch and have almost no vulnerabilities to those mines that were also crushing him?
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On August 18 2013 19:42 Megapenthes wrote:
Soulkey outplayed Innovation so bad in that derelict watcher game.
Not really. Innovation was cruising the mid game, and when Soulkey got somewhat of an advantage chose to make more mutas to have his flock strengthened which was not a bad play and probably could've won him then game at that point. Then he somehow manages to lose his only mining hatcherie to a handfull of bio while he had a 30muta flock literally at shooting range of the marauders that sniped it. Can't see how he ouplayed him "so bad", that was a pretty damn poor play right there.
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those 'impossible holds' from soulkey came at the expense of his tech. it couldn't be done any other way; or, any tech switch at that time would mean instant loss because it would cut into his unit production.
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Oh lord the top T who is still probably better than Soulkey wins a game partly fueled to bad maps and a bad time in the metagame and people go crazy.
Even Broodwar had hard times for races, and it's not like we see foreign professionals regularly taking games off of Code A-S players like was in late WoL. To me that's the best indicator of a significant disruption of balance, and the only example I've seen is Sjow-Life which was fueled by pre-nerfed hellbats.
Soulkey could have won the game too but he blindly assumed a three base Innovation and went for a roach bane bust, greatly failed and was behind. Kept trying to do counter attacks which were bad against a super-safe Innovation.
Didn't add in ~5 infestors despite having the gas to do so until he was already mined out, etc... basically he made plenty of mistakes and Innovation did very well.
Please don't take the Innovation-Soulkey results and generalize it for all ZvT/TvZ
Also, Jaedong actually has always had bad ZvT and won most of his famous games through busts(Taeja, Gumiho, Flash), and he's not yet at the level of someone like Polt in a straight up game. Sorry, but it's true.
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On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T
... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT.
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On August 18 2013 19:48 YyapSsap wrote:Need dark swarm and PLAGUUUUUUU. I swear they need the latter badly!
The fungal was sc2's plague, I think they've nerfed it a couple times now.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:53 Marklar667 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:42 Megapenthes wrote:
Soulkey outplayed Innovation so bad in that derelict watcher game. Not really. Innovation was cruising the mid game, and when Soulkey got somewhat of an advantage chose to make more mutas to have his flock strengthened which was not a bad play and probably could've won him then game at that point. Then he somehow manages to lose his only mining hatcherie to a handfull of bio while he had a 30muta flock literally at shooting range of the marauders that sniped it. Can't see how he ouplayed him "so bad", that was a pretty damn poor play right there.
Actually if pay attention, you shall see, that innovation was not even bothering to right click hatch until the very last second :D
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On August 18 2013 19:50 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:47 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:46 BBV wrote:
need lurker to stop this crap Ironically, though i am against all those 'bring lurker back' cries, it really feels like lurker is the actual solution to this bio-mine stuff. But then again, there are marauders so you never know. didnt they test lurkers in the wol alpha ? .. but didnt work out because of the unit pathing ? they said lurkers were only good in BroodWar because of the poor unit pathing for broodwar
Nope. They wanted banes to be in and said lurkers would overlap with banes so no need for them. BS 
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On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken.
soulkey outplayed inno in 2nd game and he lost.. so...
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I'd forgotten how annoying zerg whiners could be. Looks like 2010 again
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On August 18 2013 19:47 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. He played superbly. Perfect micro, perfect macro. Not sure why terran players would not appreciate such exceptional play.
Perfect play? 10 Zerglings kill his Orbital Command. That's good play? Bunch of Banelings walking into his mineral line and he doesn't even react? How come we didn't witness this brilliant play versus Parting yesterday? Oh, that's right. You can't just keep producing and rallying your units to one point when playing versus Protoss.
I don't want to take anything away from Innovation. He is a brilliant player, but so is Soulkey. And the results lately don't show that because match-up is too much in favor of the Terran. In last 6 matches, it's 6-0 for Innovation. Do people genuinely believe Innovation is so much better than Soulkey?
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On August 18 2013 19:57 AxionSteel wrote:I'd forgotten how annoying zerg whiners could be. Looks like 2010 again
Tell me about it, it's not like other races haven't had these issues.
Folks, you ain't losing your ladder games to balance.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:57 AxionSteel wrote:I'd forgotten how annoying zerg whiners could be. Looks like 2010 again
I wonder what were winrates in January 2011 and how hard they were screwd by Mvp.
EDIT: either way i really wonder when DK&Co will be fed up with all the whine and do nerf Innovation... or all Terrans.
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On August 18 2013 19:58 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:57 AxionSteel wrote:I'd forgotten how annoying zerg whiners could be. Looks like 2010 again Tell me about it, it's not like other races haven't had these issues. Folks, you ain't losing your ladder games to balance.
Oh but they are though, my low masters/high diamond zerg opponents are quick to point out how imbalanced terran is, even if they lose to my Mech
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On August 18 2013 19:55 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:53 Marklar667 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:42 Megapenthes wrote:
Soulkey outplayed Innovation so bad in that derelict watcher game. Not really. Innovation was cruising the mid game, and when Soulkey got somewhat of an advantage chose to make more mutas to have his flock strengthened which was not a bad play and probably could've won him then game at that point. Then he somehow manages to lose his only mining hatcherie to a handfull of bio while he had a 30muta flock literally at shooting range of the marauders that sniped it. Can't see how he ouplayed him "so bad", that was a pretty damn poor play right there. Actually if pay attention, you shall see, that innovation was not even bothering to right click hatch until the very last second :D
Well, okay. But the fact that soulkey chose not to save it was a huge deal compared to that anyways. You saw how it all fell appart after that
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On August 18 2013 19:57 AxionSteel wrote:I'd forgotten how annoying zerg whiners could be. Looks like 2010 again
true, game went three years behind instead of going forward.. people just want to see every race playing at same level, it is more fun and when it is not the case (like now) then people whine because they know before game starts how will it look.. like today, we all knew that SK would play as a beast and that 1 tier terran units will be enough to keep him down and kill him in the end
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:00 AxionSteel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:58 Pandain wrote:On August 18 2013 19:57 AxionSteel wrote:I'd forgotten how annoying zerg whiners could be. Looks like 2010 again Tell me about it, it's not like other races haven't had these issues. Folks, you ain't losing your ladder games to balance. Oh but they are though, my low masters/high diamond zerg opponents are quick to point out how imbalanced terran is, even if they lose to my Mech
Do not worry, i have see mid masters zergs losing to pure mines of terran with 40 APM.
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Anyone with a GIF of Parting doing the FBH dance?
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:00 Marklar667 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:55 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Marklar667 wrote:On August 18 2013 19:42 Megapenthes wrote:
Soulkey outplayed Innovation so bad in that derelict watcher game. Not really. Innovation was cruising the mid game, and when Soulkey got somewhat of an advantage chose to make more mutas to have his flock strengthened which was not a bad play and probably could've won him then game at that point. Then he somehow manages to lose his only mining hatcherie to a handfull of bio while he had a 30muta flock literally at shooting range of the marauders that sniped it. Can't see how he ouplayed him "so bad", that was a pretty damn poor play right there. Actually if pay attention, you shall see, that innovation was not even bothering to right click hatch until the very last second :D Well, okay. But the fact that soulkey chose not to save it was a huge deal compared to that anyways. You saw how it all fell appart after that
He tried to. Did not succeed.
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marines mine marauder medivac mule 5M push
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So Soulkey did a roach bane all in both games, and Zergs are still complaining about balance?
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On August 18 2013 19:58 ReMinD_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:47 AxionSteel wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. He played superbly. Perfect micro, perfect macro. Not sure why terran players would not appreciate such exceptional play. Perfect play? 10 Zerglings kill his Orbital Command. That's good play? Bunch of Banelings walking into his mineral line and he doesn't even react? How come we didn't witness this brilliant play versus Parting yesterday? Oh, that's right. You can't just keep producing and rallying your units to one point when playing versus Protoss. I don't want to take anything away from Innovation. He is a brilliant player, but so is Soulkey. And the results lately don't show that because match-up is too much in favor of the Terran. In last 6 matches, it's 6-0 for Innovation. Do people genuinely believe Innovation is so much better than Soulkey?
In the very heavy favored WoL it was 4-0 for INnoVation. Yes I do believe INnoVation is above SoulKey in terms of skill
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On August 18 2013 20:03 Lock0n wrote:
So Soulkey did a roach bane all in both games, and Zergs are still complaining about balance?
Yep.
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On August 18 2013 19:58 ReMinD_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:47 AxionSteel wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. He played superbly. Perfect micro, perfect macro. Not sure why terran players would not appreciate such exceptional play. I don't want to take anything away from Innovation. He is a brilliant player, but so is Soulkey. And the results lately don't show that because match-up is too much in favor of the Terran. In last 6 matches, it's 6-0 for Innovation. Do people genuinely believe Innovation is so much better than Soulkey?
Well , i agree that 6-0 isn't nowhere near a represantation of how these two are matched. But if you look at most of the matches they could've gone to Soulkey if not of some critical mistakes or split second poor decisions.
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Vatican City State431 Posts
On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT.
He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him.
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On August 18 2013 20:00 purgerinho wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:57 AxionSteel wrote:I'd forgotten how annoying zerg whiners could be. Looks like 2010 again true, game went three years behind instead of going forward.. people just want to see every race playing at same level, it is more fun and when it is not the case (like now) then people whine because they know before game starts how will it look.. like today, we all knew that SK would play as a beast and that 1 tier terran units will be enough to keep him down and kill him in the end
Yep, I'm a terran player and I found myself cheering for soulkey that game. I'd like it to be more competitive than it currently is, but people here are taking the current balance and saying garbage like "innovation doesnt impress me, soulkey outplayed him hard and still got rolled" "innovation sucks lol loses command center to zergling runby" etc. Innovation was putting up awesome performances in tvz in WoL at the height of broodlord infestor imbalance. He's always displayed pure brilliance at this matchup. As a terran player I felt he played fantastically well in this series, and very few terran players could play like this. We saw MarineKing get slaughtered by soulkey the other day after all.
It's just annoying whine, but I guess emotions get the best of people. Zerg is struggling hard, and people are mad.
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Late-game tvz is unbalanced because a 200 terran bio army will destroy a 200 zerg army every time. Widow mines ensure that the zerg cannot just engage with his entire army at once so he has to send it in small chunks. If he send too small a force, the mines won't be acivated because the bio will kill the force as it approaches so he has to measure out how big a chunk of his army to send to activate the mines before sending his main force. In the heat of the moment, as his expansions are under attack, that's really tough call to make. It's this crucial fight when both players are pretty much maxed but before zerg can afford hive units that the zerg always loses and it's because widow mines scale too good against large numbers of small units.
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On August 18 2013 19:46 BBV wrote:
need lurker to stop this crap
Hydralisks at Hatchery and Lurkers at Lair. Then ditch Roaches and bring in the Hunterling at Lair, trading the mount/stun on its jump attack for small area-of-effect damage when it lands (AoE probably on an upgrade).
Earlier anti air keeps the Medivac count down and Lurker defense helps Zergs last until Hive. Hunterling jumps can help against microing bio and it is a cliff-scaling, harass unit and that is actually interesting.
Those are just some ideas that sound good to me, but I'm no expert or anything...
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On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him.
His ZvZ is just so unreliable and quite awful atm. He other MUs are still OK.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:06 Thrillz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. His ZvZ is just so unreliable and quite awful atm. He other MUs are still OK.
Ironical stat: Both him and JD are 3-2 against Scarlett. Life's ZvZ confirmed JvZ /sarcasm
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Must be really frustrating for SK to play Innovation. Every time I see them play, I feel SK plays really good games and still always loses.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him.
No.
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On August 18 2013 20:04 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:58 ReMinD_ wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 AxionSteel wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. He played superbly. Perfect micro, perfect macro. Not sure why terran players would not appreciate such exceptional play. Perfect play? 10 Zerglings kill his Orbital Command. That's good play? Bunch of Banelings walking into his mineral line and he doesn't even react? How come we didn't witness this brilliant play versus Parting yesterday? Oh, that's right. You can't just keep producing and rallying your units to one point when playing versus Protoss. I don't want to take anything away from Innovation. He is a brilliant player, but so is Soulkey. And the results lately don't show that because match-up is too much in favor of the Terran. In last 6 matches, it's 6-0 for Innovation. Do people genuinely believe Innovation is so much better than Soulkey? In the very heavy favored WoL it was 4-0 for INnoVation. Yes I do believe INnoVation is above SoulKey in terms of skill
and in the very balanced and more skill intensive bw soulkey is 4:1 against innovation, this wont get us anywhere
your "very heavy favored wol" was actually in average a 55% winrate favoring zerg which is pretty similiar to what hots has been in favor of t (way more in the last month) until now so its pretty difficult to say who is the better player overall, they are just the best t and z atm
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On August 18 2013 19:58 ReMinD_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:47 AxionSteel wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. He played superbly. Perfect micro, perfect macro. Not sure why terran players would not appreciate such exceptional play. Perfect play? 10 Zerglings kill his Orbital Command. That's good play? Bunch of Banelings walking into his mineral line and he doesn't even react?
Maybe because your whole army dies to AoE if you look one second away at the wrong time? Try to play Terran at a high level and you'll see how this kind of mistake is virtually forced sooner or later.
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People forget that Innovation got his ass handed to him by Maru and Parting, he's no God in anyway.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:09 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:58 ReMinD_ wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 AxionSteel wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. He played superbly. Perfect micro, perfect macro. Not sure why terran players would not appreciate such exceptional play. Perfect play? 10 Zerglings kill his Orbital Command. That's good play? Bunch of Banelings walking into his mineral line and he doesn't even react? Maybe because your whole army dies to AoE if you look one second away at the wrong time? Try to play Terran at a high level and you'll see how this kind of mistake is virtually forced sooner or later.
Damn, i just realized that Innovation managed to lose 4th to lings AND lose his army to banelings :D
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On August 18 2013 20:09 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:58 ReMinD_ wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 AxionSteel wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. He played superbly. Perfect micro, perfect macro. Not sure why terran players would not appreciate such exceptional play. Perfect play? 10 Zerglings kill his Orbital Command. That's good play? Bunch of Banelings walking into his mineral line and he doesn't even react? Maybe because your whole army dies to AoE if you look one second away at the wrong time? Try to play Terran at a high level and you'll see how this kind of mistake is virtually forced sooner or later.
Your whole army dies to AoE?
Wow that sounds oddly familiar. It's a shame your units doesn't die when they do it though.
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On August 18 2013 20:09 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:58 ReMinD_ wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 AxionSteel wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. He played superbly. Perfect micro, perfect macro. Not sure why terran players would not appreciate such exceptional play. Perfect play? 10 Zerglings kill his Orbital Command. That's good play? Bunch of Banelings walking into his mineral line and he doesn't even react? Maybe because your whole army dies to AoE if you look one second away at the wrong time? Try to play Terran at a high level and you'll see how this kind of mistake is virtually forced sooner or later.
He's just giving examples of how Innovation didn't play perfectly, which is true because as of right now no one plays perfectly although Innovation is closest.
So yes the argument that Innovation is playing perfectly is flawed, it's that he's playing slightly better than Soulkey.
I think these games alone show how Soulkey is very close to Innovation, and I think he's getting into Soulkey's head lately as SK isn't even scouting.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:11 massivez wrote:
People forget that Innovation got his ass handed to him by Maru and Parting, he's no God in anyway.
We are talking about InnovationVsZ. It has been shown that Innovation's other match-ups are fragile. Also, wtf: Innovation won 2-1 against SKT's b-teamer.
B-teamers confirmed new bonjwas.
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On August 18 2013 20:09 Tsubbi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:04 NarutO wrote:On August 18 2013 19:58 ReMinD_ wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 AxionSteel wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. He played superbly. Perfect micro, perfect macro. Not sure why terran players would not appreciate such exceptional play. Perfect play? 10 Zerglings kill his Orbital Command. That's good play? Bunch of Banelings walking into his mineral line and he doesn't even react? How come we didn't witness this brilliant play versus Parting yesterday? Oh, that's right. You can't just keep producing and rallying your units to one point when playing versus Protoss. I don't want to take anything away from Innovation. He is a brilliant player, but so is Soulkey. And the results lately don't show that because match-up is too much in favor of the Terran. In last 6 matches, it's 6-0 for Innovation. Do people genuinely believe Innovation is so much better than Soulkey? In the very heavy favored WoL it was 4-0 for INnoVation. Yes I do believe INnoVation is above SoulKey in terms of skill and in the very balanced and more skill intensive bw soulkey is 4:1 against innovation, this wont get us anywhere
True statement. Also, as far as BW balance is concerned, it is considered that T>Z.
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
Sick play from Soulkey in that game. If only StarCraft 2 had Defilers and Lurkers.
Soulkey is such a good player, it's a shame to see him lose games in StarCraft 2 despite playing his heart out.
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On August 18 2013 20:06 pylonsalad wrote:
Late-game tvz is unbalanced because a 200 terran bio army will destroy a 200 zerg army every time. Widow mines ensure that the zerg cannot just engage with his entire army at once so he has to send it in small chunks. If he send too small a force, the mines won't be acivated because the bio will kill the force as it approaches so he has to measure out how big a chunk of his army to send to activate the mines before sending his main force. In the heat of the moment, as his expansions are under attack, that's really tough call to make. It's this crucial fight when both players are pretty much maxed but before zerg can afford hive units that the zerg always loses and it's because widow mines scale too good against large numbers of small units.
In a standard BW game, zerg was able to successfully defend against terran attacks only when defilers were out and until that time not all zergs survived. It was one of the most entertaining parts of the game. Nobody cried aboout imbalance and "why can't I just a-move my 200 army and win?" It should be difficult, it should be extremely difficult otherwise nobody would watch it.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:13 Arco wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:09 Tsubbi wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 NarutO wrote:On August 18 2013 19:58 ReMinD_ wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 AxionSteel wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. He played superbly. Perfect micro, perfect macro. Not sure why terran players would not appreciate such exceptional play. Perfect play? 10 Zerglings kill his Orbital Command. That's good play? Bunch of Banelings walking into his mineral line and he doesn't even react? How come we didn't witness this brilliant play versus Parting yesterday? Oh, that's right. You can't just keep producing and rallying your units to one point when playing versus Protoss. I don't want to take anything away from Innovation. He is a brilliant player, but so is Soulkey. And the results lately don't show that because match-up is too much in favor of the Terran. In last 6 matches, it's 6-0 for Innovation. Do people genuinely believe Innovation is so much better than Soulkey? In the very heavy favored WoL it was 4-0 for INnoVation. Yes I do believe INnoVation is above SoulKey in terms of skill and in the very balanced and more skill intensive bw soulkey is 4:1 against innovation, this wont get us anywhere True statement. Also, as far as BW balance is concerned, it is considered that T>Z. + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMcXZYhHDxg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXteaAzkzb4 Soulkey is such a good player, it's a shame to see him lose games where he plays his heart out.
Oh man, this game made Soulkey's fan.
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On August 18 2013 20:11 massivez wrote:
People forget that Innovation got his ass handed to him by Maru and Parting, he's no God in anyway.
Eh, vs Maru was 50% luck at least.
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On August 18 2013 20:14 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:11 massivez wrote:
People forget that Innovation got his ass handed to him by Maru and Parting, he's no God in anyway. Eh, vs Maru was 50% luck at least.
What about Bomber vs Innovation?
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On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him.
Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life?
Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-?
Symbol looked horribly bad against Maru, KangHo beat Maru, but the game didn't matter for Maru at all. And then we have hyvaa who all ins every game or straight up loses. And... well, these were the Zerg which could be considered really strong right now :-P
Everyone else doesn't even appear in the later stages of a tournament.
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On August 18 2013 20:13 Arco wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:09 Tsubbi wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 NarutO wrote:On August 18 2013 19:58 ReMinD_ wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 AxionSteel wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. He played superbly. Perfect micro, perfect macro. Not sure why terran players would not appreciate such exceptional play. Perfect play? 10 Zerglings kill his Orbital Command. That's good play? Bunch of Banelings walking into his mineral line and he doesn't even react? How come we didn't witness this brilliant play versus Parting yesterday? Oh, that's right. You can't just keep producing and rallying your units to one point when playing versus Protoss. I don't want to take anything away from Innovation. He is a brilliant player, but so is Soulkey. And the results lately don't show that because match-up is too much in favor of the Terran. In last 6 matches, it's 6-0 for Innovation. Do people genuinely believe Innovation is so much better than Soulkey? In the very heavy favored WoL it was 4-0 for INnoVation. Yes I do believe INnoVation is above SoulKey in terms of skill and in the very balanced and more skill intensive bw soulkey is 4:1 against innovation, this wont get us anywhere True statement. Also, as far as BW balance is concerned, it is considered that T>Z. + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMcXZYhHDxg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXteaAzkzb4 Sick play from Soulkey in that game. If only StarCraft 2 had Defilers and Lurkers. Soulkey is such a good player, it's a shame to see him lose games in StarCraft 2 despite playing his heart out.
True but it is so obvious that Soulkey was far above Bogus skill in BW. Bogus just has improved SO MUCH in SC2. Rember, he did really bad during Frankenstein-League.
I really think we need Major our prophet to defend the honour of Bogus,man in this thread of heretics.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-? Symbol looked horribly bad against Maru, KangHo beat Maru, but the game didn't matter for Maru at all. And then we have hyvaa who all ins every game or straight up loses. And... well, these were the Zerg which could be considered really strong right now :-P Everyone else doesn't even appear in the later stages of a tournament.
Lol, i start to think that all zergs in Korea agreed to suck just to get themselves buffed.
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On August 18 2013 20:19 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-? Symbol looked horribly bad against Maru, KangHo beat Maru, but the game didn't matter for Maru at all. And then we have hyvaa who all ins every game or straight up loses. And... well, these were the Zerg which could be considered really strong right now :-P Everyone else doesn't even appear in the later stages of a tournament. Lol, i start to think that all zergs in Korea agreed to suck just to get themselves buffed.
Then at least they'd have an insane team spirit :-P
Because literally everyone started to suck :-P
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On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-)
HAHAHAHAHA
get out
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out
Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs.
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On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs.
If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA...
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs. If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA...
Ehem, sorry, i forgot to say play against in tournaments
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On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs. If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA...
That's why I said "maybe", because it's hard to judge how they'd do agains the Korean Terrans (Season finals will show).
But my point is just: There aren't too many Zerg who I'd consider to be stronger than Life (In this specific matchup!) and the results lately prove that quite well, IMO.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:25 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs. If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA... That's why I said "maybe", because it's hard to judge how they'd do agains the Korean Terrans (Season finals will show). But my point is just: There aren't too many Zerg who I'd consider to be stronger than Life and the results lately prove that quite well, IMO.
It is funny to say that, but so far it looks like soO > Life :D. Heck, soO can troll Rain now, because he did win against Maru :D
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On August 18 2013 20:14 myminerals wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:06 pylonsalad wrote:
Late-game tvz is unbalanced because a 200 terran bio army will destroy a 200 zerg army every time. Widow mines ensure that the zerg cannot just engage with his entire army at once so he has to send it in small chunks. If he send too small a force, the mines won't be acivated because the bio will kill the force as it approaches so he has to measure out how big a chunk of his army to send to activate the mines before sending his main force. In the heat of the moment, as his expansions are under attack, that's really tough call to make. It's this crucial fight when both players are pretty much maxed but before zerg can afford hive units that the zerg always loses and it's because widow mines scale too good against large numbers of small units. In a standard BW game, zerg was able to successfully defend against terran attacks only when defilers were out and until that time not all zergs survived. It was one of the most entertaining parts of the game. Nobody cried aboout imbalance and "why can't I just a-move my 200 army and win?" It should be difficult, it should be extremely difficult otherwise nobody would watch it.
That's not true. In BW, a large zerg army can fight the terran army with proper flanking. In SC2, the terran just needs to place 4-5 widow mines to the side and back of his army and flanks become useless.
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On August 18 2013 20:01 KanoCoke wrote:
Anyone with a GIF of Parting doing the FBH dance?
wasnt a dance ceremony, but very good nonetheless
![[image loading]](http://www.ultraimg.com/images/0IbwH.gif)
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On August 18 2013 20:22 monkybone wrote:
don't forget guys both these games started out with failed roach bane busts
nope. an early roach bane bust is the only way to stall the bio-ball from stomping you sooner.
it was used as/to gain a window for a tech switch. it wasn't a choice.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:33 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:22 monkybone wrote:
don't forget guys both these games started out with failed roach bane busts nope. an early roach bane bust is the only way to stall the bio-ball from stomping you sooner. it was used as/to gain a window for a tech switch. it wasn't a choice.
To be fair those exact roach bane busts did put Soulkey kind-of-behind IMO.
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On August 18 2013 20:33 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:22 monkybone wrote:
don't forget guys both these games started out with failed roach bane busts nope. an early roach bane bust is the only way to stall the bio-ball from stomping you sooner. it was used as/to gain a window for a tech switch. it wasn't a choice.
Just getting baneling speed faster is much better.
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On August 18 2013 20:25 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs. If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA... That's why I said "maybe", because it's hard to judge how they'd do agains the Korean Terrans (Season finals will show). But my point is just: There aren't too many Zerg who I'd consider to be stronger than Life (In this specific matchup!) and the results lately prove that quite well, IMO.
With the recent migration of lower level Koreans into WCS NA and EU it surely has become extremely hard to tell who is how good.
In that specific case I really doubt Either Scarlett or JD are better than Life.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:47 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:25 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:
[quote]
Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs. If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA... That's why I said "maybe", because it's hard to judge how they'd do agains the Korean Terrans (Season finals will show). But my point is just: There aren't too many Zerg who I'd consider to be stronger than Life (In this specific matchup!) and the results lately prove that quite well, IMO. With the recent migration of lower level Koreans into WCS NA and EU it surely has become extremely hard to tell who is how good. In that specific case I really doubt Either Scarlett or JD are better than Life.
Scarlett and JD vs jjakji match required!
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:57 Inflicted_ wrote:2-0'd both  Rain and 2-0  INnoVation PartinG is the best player in the world... until he meets a zerg.
Yeah, funnily enough here is the trivia:
Soulkey 2 0 Parting
Parting 2 0 Innovation
Innovation 100500 0 Soulkey
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What bothers me as a spectator is that there is zero comeback chance for the zerg once the terran gets ahead while the terran seems to pull off "amazing" comebacks. And for those talking about brood lords in game2 plz take a look on that map and the bases and tell me how SK is going to defend them with BL against the mobile army of innovation.
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On August 18 2013 21:19 Fjodorov wrote:
What bothers me as a spectator is that there is zero comeback chance for the zerg once the terran gets ahead while the terran seems to pull off "amazing" comebacks. And for those talking about brood lords in game2 plz take a look on that map and the bases and tell me how SK is going to defend them with BL against the mobile army of innovation.
What sounds "strange" to me aboutTvZ (Not whine since im protoss fan), is that terran is the race that "swarm" lower tier units on his opponent.
And people say to zerg:
"Go to higher techs".
Isnt it supposed to be the inverse?
Or am i wrong in my concepts?
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On August 18 2013 20:31 pylonsalad wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:14 myminerals wrote:On August 18 2013 20:06 pylonsalad wrote:
Late-game tvz is unbalanced because a 200 terran bio army will destroy a 200 zerg army every time. Widow mines ensure that the zerg cannot just engage with his entire army at once so he has to send it in small chunks. If he send too small a force, the mines won't be acivated because the bio will kill the force as it approaches so he has to measure out how big a chunk of his army to send to activate the mines before sending his main force. In the heat of the moment, as his expansions are under attack, that's really tough call to make. It's this crucial fight when both players are pretty much maxed but before zerg can afford hive units that the zerg always loses and it's because widow mines scale too good against large numbers of small units. In a standard BW game, zerg was able to successfully defend against terran attacks only when defilers were out and until that time not all zergs survived. It was one of the most entertaining parts of the game. Nobody cried aboout imbalance and "why can't I just a-move my 200 army and win?" It should be difficult, it should be extremely difficult otherwise nobody would watch it. That's not true. In BW, a large zerg army can fight the terran army with proper flanking. In SC2, the terran just needs to place 4-5 widow mines to the side and back of his army and flanks become useless.
yeah blizzard does not add lurkers coz of path but they added this fucking unit it is so fucking annoying
and now we have 8 out of 16 premier events won by terran
P.S. I am very sad that Sora has lost I hope you can qualify for GSL!!!
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 21:31 Taipoka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 21:19 Fjodorov wrote:
What bothers me as a spectator is that there is zero comeback chance for the zerg once the terran gets ahead while the terran seems to pull off "amazing" comebacks. And for those talking about brood lords in game2 plz take a look on that map and the bases and tell me how SK is going to defend them with BL against the mobile army of innovation. What sounds "strange" to me aboutTvZ (Not whine since im protoss fan), is that terran is the race that "swarm" lower tier units on his opponent. And people say to zerg: "Go to higher techs". Isnt it supposed to be the inverse? Or am i wrong in my concepts?
I don't think anyone understands this either. Ask david kim or dustin browder for real answer i guess D:
Also, i hope nobody thinks that innovation pull off an comeback in his games against soulkey, as he was pretty much ahead all game long.
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On August 18 2013 21:31 Taipoka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 21:19 Fjodorov wrote:
What bothers me as a spectator is that there is zero comeback chance for the zerg once the terran gets ahead while the terran seems to pull off "amazing" comebacks. And for those talking about brood lords in game2 plz take a look on that map and the bases and tell me how SK is going to defend them with BL against the mobile army of innovation. What sounds "strange" to me aboutTvZ (Not whine since im protoss fan), is that terran is the race that "swarm" lower tier units on his opponent. And people say to zerg: "Go to higher techs". Isnt it supposed to be the inverse? Or am i wrong in my concepts?
Medivacs are tier 2 (my bad). Widow mines are tier 2 if i'm not mistaken, same as mutalisks and banelings. Of course the terran tech tree is easier to access, but people tend to forget that without a lot of medivacs, marines are worth nothing.
On August 18 2013 20:47 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:25 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:
[quote]
Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs. If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA... That's why I said "maybe", because it's hard to judge how they'd do agains the Korean Terrans (Season finals will show). But my point is just: There aren't too many Zerg who I'd consider to be stronger than Life (In this specific matchup!) and the results lately prove that quite well, IMO. With the recent migration of lower level Koreans into WCS NA and EU it surely has become extremely hard to tell who is how good. In that specific case I really doubt Either Scarlett or JD are better than Life.
Hyun, Symbol, Soulkey, soo, Kangho, TRUE, even Songduri or DRG. All performing quite well at the moment.
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PartinG awesome ceremony as always. and Sickkk Inno too. gg's
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 21:48 SsoL wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 21:31 Taipoka wrote:On August 18 2013 21:19 Fjodorov wrote:
What bothers me as a spectator is that there is zero comeback chance for the zerg once the terran gets ahead while the terran seems to pull off "amazing" comebacks. And for those talking about brood lords in game2 plz take a look on that map and the bases and tell me how SK is going to defend them with BL against the mobile army of innovation. What sounds "strange" to me aboutTvZ (Not whine since im protoss fan), is that terran is the race that "swarm" lower tier units on his opponent. And people say to zerg: "Go to higher techs". Isnt it supposed to be the inverse? Or am i wrong in my concepts? Medivacs are tier 3. Widow mines are tier 2 if i'm not mistaken, same as mutalisks and banelings. Of course the terran tech tree is easier to access, but people tend to forget that without a lot of medivacs, marines are worth nothing. Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:47 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:25 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:
[quote]
Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs. If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA... That's why I said "maybe", because it's hard to judge how they'd do agains the Korean Terrans (Season finals will show). But my point is just: There aren't too many Zerg who I'd consider to be stronger than Life (In this specific matchup!) and the results lately prove that quite well, IMO. With the recent migration of lower level Koreans into WCS NA and EU it surely has become extremely hard to tell who is how good. In that specific case I really doubt Either Scarlett or JD are better than Life. Hyun, Symbol, Soulkey, soo, Kangho, TRUE, even Songduri or DRG. All performing quite well at the moment.
1st: Medivacs are not tier 3. They are tier 2. And no, starport is not tier 3. Starports with tech labs (aka banshees, ravens and BCs) are tier 3 though.
2nd: Getting into Code S is not performing well, especially considering that Soulkey for example did it on the back of his ZvZ only last season (and so did Symbol).
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On August 18 2013 21:31 Taipoka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 21:19 Fjodorov wrote:
What bothers me as a spectator is that there is zero comeback chance for the zerg once the terran gets ahead while the terran seems to pull off "amazing" comebacks. And for those talking about brood lords in game2 plz take a look on that map and the bases and tell me how SK is going to defend them with BL against the mobile army of innovation. What sounds "strange" to me aboutTvZ (Not whine since im protoss fan), is that terran is the race that "swarm" lower tier units on his opponent. And people say to zerg: "Go to higher techs". Isnt it supposed to be the inverse? Or am i wrong in my concepts?
Imo in tech level, Medivac= muta ; mines= baneling ; Marines= Zerlings so they are pretty much at the same tier.
Game 1 was a swarmy play from SK with roachs lings blings runby play before muta switch which kill him. Adding few hydra or infestors could have been less risky.
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On August 18 2013 21:53 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 21:48 SsoL wrote:On August 18 2013 21:31 Taipoka wrote:On August 18 2013 21:19 Fjodorov wrote:
What bothers me as a spectator is that there is zero comeback chance for the zerg once the terran gets ahead while the terran seems to pull off "amazing" comebacks. And for those talking about brood lords in game2 plz take a look on that map and the bases and tell me how SK is going to defend them with BL against the mobile army of innovation. What sounds "strange" to me aboutTvZ (Not whine since im protoss fan), is that terran is the race that "swarm" lower tier units on his opponent. And people say to zerg: "Go to higher techs". Isnt it supposed to be the inverse? Or am i wrong in my concepts? Medivacs are tier 3. Widow mines are tier 2 if i'm not mistaken, same as mutalisks and banelings. Of course the terran tech tree is easier to access, but people tend to forget that without a lot of medivacs, marines are worth nothing. On August 18 2013 20:47 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:25 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:
[quote]
... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs. If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA... That's why I said "maybe", because it's hard to judge how they'd do agains the Korean Terrans (Season finals will show). But my point is just: There aren't too many Zerg who I'd consider to be stronger than Life (In this specific matchup!) and the results lately prove that quite well, IMO. With the recent migration of lower level Koreans into WCS NA and EU it surely has become extremely hard to tell who is how good. In that specific case I really doubt Either Scarlett or JD are better than Life. Hyun, Symbol, Soulkey, soo, Kangho, TRUE, even Songduri or DRG. All performing quite well at the moment. 1st: Medivacs are not tier 3. They are tier 2. And no, starport is not tier 3. Starports with tech labs (aka banshees, ravens and BCs) are tier 3 though. 2nd: Getting into Code S is not performing well, especially considering that Soulkey for example did it on the back of his ZvZ only last season (and so did Symbol).
KangHo fits in this list with Symbol and Soulkey as well (He won against JangBi and Hurricane once each, everyone else was Zerg.). And SoO... I don't know, he held off a proxy 2-rax twice and got to Code S. No idea how strong he'd be in a normal game, tbh.
To be brutally honest, I don't see anyone beside Hyun/Soulkey in this list who I expect to reach the Season 3 finals. And Hyun has to get to premier first xD
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 22:08 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 21:53 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 21:48 SsoL wrote:On August 18 2013 21:31 Taipoka wrote:On August 18 2013 21:19 Fjodorov wrote:
What bothers me as a spectator is that there is zero comeback chance for the zerg once the terran gets ahead while the terran seems to pull off "amazing" comebacks. And for those talking about brood lords in game2 plz take a look on that map and the bases and tell me how SK is going to defend them with BL against the mobile army of innovation. What sounds "strange" to me aboutTvZ (Not whine since im protoss fan), is that terran is the race that "swarm" lower tier units on his opponent. And people say to zerg: "Go to higher techs". Isnt it supposed to be the inverse? Or am i wrong in my concepts? Medivacs are tier 3. Widow mines are tier 2 if i'm not mistaken, same as mutalisks and banelings. Of course the terran tech tree is easier to access, but people tend to forget that without a lot of medivacs, marines are worth nothing. On August 18 2013 20:47 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:25 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:
[quote]
He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs. If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA... That's why I said "maybe", because it's hard to judge how they'd do agains the Korean Terrans (Season finals will show). But my point is just: There aren't too many Zerg who I'd consider to be stronger than Life (In this specific matchup!) and the results lately prove that quite well, IMO. With the recent migration of lower level Koreans into WCS NA and EU it surely has become extremely hard to tell who is how good. In that specific case I really doubt Either Scarlett or JD are better than Life. Hyun, Symbol, Soulkey, soo, Kangho, TRUE, even Songduri or DRG. All performing quite well at the moment. 1st: Medivacs are not tier 3. They are tier 2. And no, starport is not tier 3. Starports with tech labs (aka banshees, ravens and BCs) are tier 3 though. 2nd: Getting into Code S is not performing well, especially considering that Soulkey for example did it on the back of his ZvZ only last season (and so did Symbol). KangHo fits in this list with Symbol and Soulkey as well (He won against JangBi and Hurricane once each, everyone else was Zerg.). And SoO... I don't know, he held off a proxy 2-rax twice and got to Code S. No idea how strong he'd be in a normal game, tbh.
I heard he also did worst bane bust ever (when scvs were repairing supply depots before banes were breaking 'em :D)
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 22:08 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 21:53 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 21:48 SsoL wrote:On August 18 2013 21:31 Taipoka wrote:On August 18 2013 21:19 Fjodorov wrote:
What bothers me as a spectator is that there is zero comeback chance for the zerg once the terran gets ahead while the terran seems to pull off "amazing" comebacks. And for those talking about brood lords in game2 plz take a look on that map and the bases and tell me how SK is going to defend them with BL against the mobile army of innovation. What sounds "strange" to me aboutTvZ (Not whine since im protoss fan), is that terran is the race that "swarm" lower tier units on his opponent. And people say to zerg: "Go to higher techs". Isnt it supposed to be the inverse? Or am i wrong in my concepts? Medivacs are tier 3. Widow mines are tier 2 if i'm not mistaken, same as mutalisks and banelings. Of course the terran tech tree is easier to access, but people tend to forget that without a lot of medivacs, marines are worth nothing. On August 18 2013 20:47 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:25 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:
[quote]
He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs. If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA... That's why I said "maybe", because it's hard to judge how they'd do agains the Korean Terrans (Season finals will show). But my point is just: There aren't too many Zerg who I'd consider to be stronger than Life (In this specific matchup!) and the results lately prove that quite well, IMO. With the recent migration of lower level Koreans into WCS NA and EU it surely has become extremely hard to tell who is how good. In that specific case I really doubt Either Scarlett or JD are better than Life. Hyun, Symbol, Soulkey, soo, Kangho, TRUE, even Songduri or DRG. All performing quite well at the moment. 1st: Medivacs are not tier 3. They are tier 2. And no, starport is not tier 3. Starports with tech labs (aka banshees, ravens and BCs) are tier 3 though. 2nd: Getting into Code S is not performing well, especially considering that Soulkey for example did it on the back of his ZvZ only last season (and so did Symbol). KangHo fits in this list with Symbol and Soulkey as well (He won against JangBi and Hurricane once each, everyone else was Zerg.). And SoO... I don't know, he held off a proxy 2-rax twice and got to Code S. No idea how strong he'd be in a normal game, tbh. To be brutally honest, I don't see anyone beside Hyun/Soulkey in this list who I expect to reach the Season 3 finals. And Hyun has to get to premier first xD
I will laugh so hard if we actually end up with no zergs at Blizzcon. That would be glorious imo.
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On August 18 2013 22:14 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 22:08 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 21:53 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 21:48 SsoL wrote:On August 18 2013 21:31 Taipoka wrote:On August 18 2013 21:19 Fjodorov wrote:
What bothers me as a spectator is that there is zero comeback chance for the zerg once the terran gets ahead while the terran seems to pull off "amazing" comebacks. And for those talking about brood lords in game2 plz take a look on that map and the bases and tell me how SK is going to defend them with BL against the mobile army of innovation. What sounds "strange" to me aboutTvZ (Not whine since im protoss fan), is that terran is the race that "swarm" lower tier units on his opponent. And people say to zerg: "Go to higher techs". Isnt it supposed to be the inverse? Or am i wrong in my concepts? Medivacs are tier 3. Widow mines are tier 2 if i'm not mistaken, same as mutalisks and banelings. Of course the terran tech tree is easier to access, but people tend to forget that without a lot of medivacs, marines are worth nothing. On August 18 2013 20:47 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:25 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:
[quote]
Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life?
Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs. If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA... That's why I said "maybe", because it's hard to judge how they'd do agains the Korean Terrans (Season finals will show). But my point is just: There aren't too many Zerg who I'd consider to be stronger than Life (In this specific matchup!) and the results lately prove that quite well, IMO. With the recent migration of lower level Koreans into WCS NA and EU it surely has become extremely hard to tell who is how good. In that specific case I really doubt Either Scarlett or JD are better than Life. Hyun, Symbol, Soulkey, soo, Kangho, TRUE, even Songduri or DRG. All performing quite well at the moment. 1st: Medivacs are not tier 3. They are tier 2. And no, starport is not tier 3. Starports with tech labs (aka banshees, ravens and BCs) are tier 3 though. 2nd: Getting into Code S is not performing well, especially considering that Soulkey for example did it on the back of his ZvZ only last season (and so did Symbol). KangHo fits in this list with Symbol and Soulkey as well (He won against JangBi and Hurricane once each, everyone else was Zerg.). And SoO... I don't know, he held off a proxy 2-rax twice and got to Code S. No idea how strong he'd be in a normal game, tbh. To be brutally honest, I don't see anyone beside Hyun/Soulkey in this list who I expect to reach the Season 3 finals. And Hyun has to get to premier first xD I will laugh so hard if we actually end up with no zergs at Blizzcon. That would be glorious imo.
I think Soulkey is a lock
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On August 19 2013 00:24 liberate71 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 22:14 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 22:08 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 21:53 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 21:48 SsoL wrote:On August 18 2013 21:31 Taipoka wrote:On August 18 2013 21:19 Fjodorov wrote:
What bothers me as a spectator is that there is zero comeback chance for the zerg once the terran gets ahead while the terran seems to pull off "amazing" comebacks. And for those talking about brood lords in game2 plz take a look on that map and the bases and tell me how SK is going to defend them with BL against the mobile army of innovation. What sounds "strange" to me aboutTvZ (Not whine since im protoss fan), is that terran is the race that "swarm" lower tier units on his opponent. And people say to zerg: "Go to higher techs". Isnt it supposed to be the inverse? Or am i wrong in my concepts? Medivacs are tier 3. Widow mines are tier 2 if i'm not mistaken, same as mutalisks and banelings. Of course the terran tech tree is easier to access, but people tend to forget that without a lot of medivacs, marines are worth nothing. On August 18 2013 20:47 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:25 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:
[quote]
HAHAHAHAHA
get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs. If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA... That's why I said "maybe", because it's hard to judge how they'd do agains the Korean Terrans (Season finals will show). But my point is just: There aren't too many Zerg who I'd consider to be stronger than Life (In this specific matchup!) and the results lately prove that quite well, IMO. With the recent migration of lower level Koreans into WCS NA and EU it surely has become extremely hard to tell who is how good. In that specific case I really doubt Either Scarlett or JD are better than Life. Hyun, Symbol, Soulkey, soo, Kangho, TRUE, even Songduri or DRG. All performing quite well at the moment. 1st: Medivacs are not tier 3. They are tier 2. And no, starport is not tier 3. Starports with tech labs (aka banshees, ravens and BCs) are tier 3 though. 2nd: Getting into Code S is not performing well, especially considering that Soulkey for example did it on the back of his ZvZ only last season (and so did Symbol). KangHo fits in this list with Symbol and Soulkey as well (He won against JangBi and Hurricane once each, everyone else was Zerg.). And SoO... I don't know, he held off a proxy 2-rax twice and got to Code S. No idea how strong he'd be in a normal game, tbh. To be brutally honest, I don't see anyone beside Hyun/Soulkey in this list who I expect to reach the Season 3 finals. And Hyun has to get to premier first xD I will laugh so hard if we actually end up with no zergs at Blizzcon. That would be glorious imo. I think Soulkey is a lock
Jaedong will probably also be a lock if EG keeps on sending him to every single tournament with WCS points.
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Canada16217 Posts
Nice to see a ceremony from PartinG :D
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holy shit.
innovation vs soulkey is quickly becoming the leessang rok of sc2. awesome!
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Thanks! Much appreciated.
EDIT: Haha, Parting, what a baller. 2:0 vs Jangbi/Rain/Innovation/Sora, and a ceremony, true champion material right there.
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On August 19 2013 02:46 Black Gun wrote:
holy shit.
innovation vs soulkey is quickly becoming the leessang rok of sc2. awesome!
Yes with one problem: SK has like lost the last 6 matches against Inno.
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On August 19 2013 02:53 PerSe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 02:46 Black Gun wrote:
holy shit.
innovation vs soulkey is quickly becoming the leessang rok of sc2. awesome! Yes with one problem: SK has like lost the last 6 matches against Inno.
firebathero vs savior ^^
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On August 19 2013 02:53 PerSe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 02:46 Black Gun wrote:
holy shit.
innovation vs soulkey is quickly becoming the leessang rok of sc2. awesome! Yes with one problem: SK has like lost the last 6 matches against Inno.
this totally reminds me of jd vs flash: jd won their first MSL finals encounter, but lost the following 3 consecutive finals in which they faced off.
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Soulkey vs Innovation is about as much of a rivalry as MKP vs Mvp at this point
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 19 2013 10:20 Dodgin wrote:
Soulkey vs Innovation is about as much of a rivalry as MKP vs Mvp at this point
Well, unlike MKP Soulkey did win a BoX, even 2 (Bo1 and Bo7 :D)
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 19 2013 01:33 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 00:24 liberate71 wrote:On August 18 2013 22:14 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 22:08 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 21:53 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 21:48 SsoL wrote:On August 18 2013 21:31 Taipoka wrote:On August 18 2013 21:19 Fjodorov wrote:
What bothers me as a spectator is that there is zero comeback chance for the zerg once the terran gets ahead while the terran seems to pull off "amazing" comebacks. And for those talking about brood lords in game2 plz take a look on that map and the bases and tell me how SK is going to defend them with BL against the mobile army of innovation. What sounds "strange" to me aboutTvZ (Not whine since im protoss fan), is that terran is the race that "swarm" lower tier units on his opponent. And people say to zerg: "Go to higher techs". Isnt it supposed to be the inverse? Or am i wrong in my concepts? Medivacs are tier 3. Widow mines are tier 2 if i'm not mistaken, same as mutalisks and banelings. Of course the terran tech tree is easier to access, but people tend to forget that without a lot of medivacs, marines are worth nothing. On August 18 2013 20:47 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:25 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:
[quote]
Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs. If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA... That's why I said "maybe", because it's hard to judge how they'd do agains the Korean Terrans (Season finals will show). But my point is just: There aren't too many Zerg who I'd consider to be stronger than Life (In this specific matchup!) and the results lately prove that quite well, IMO. With the recent migration of lower level Koreans into WCS NA and EU it surely has become extremely hard to tell who is how good. In that specific case I really doubt Either Scarlett or JD are better than Life. Hyun, Symbol, Soulkey, soo, Kangho, TRUE, even Songduri or DRG. All performing quite well at the moment. 1st: Medivacs are not tier 3. They are tier 2. And no, starport is not tier 3. Starports with tech labs (aka banshees, ravens and BCs) are tier 3 though. 2nd: Getting into Code S is not performing well, especially considering that Soulkey for example did it on the back of his ZvZ only last season (and so did Symbol). KangHo fits in this list with Symbol and Soulkey as well (He won against JangBi and Hurricane once each, everyone else was Zerg.). And SoO... I don't know, he held off a proxy 2-rax twice and got to Code S. No idea how strong he'd be in a normal game, tbh. To be brutally honest, I don't see anyone beside Hyun/Soulkey in this list who I expect to reach the Season 3 finals. And Hyun has to get to premier first xD I will laugh so hard if we actually end up with no zergs at Blizzcon. That would be glorious imo. I think Soulkey is a lock Jaedong will probably also be a lock if EG keeps on sending him to every single tournament with WCS points.
Considering the volatility of WCS Europe (seriously, Ro16 players dropping out :D) i won't wonder if we get no zergs from Europe. Soulkey will most likely go, yep, JD... well, it depends how many times he will meet Polt :D
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On August 19 2013 10:20 Dodgin wrote:
Soulkey vs Innovation is about as much of a rivalry as MKP vs Mvp at this point
Every Soulkey Innovation game is really close, so I wouldn't classify it as that. Also Soulkey has taken the most important series so far (GSL).
It's definitely the highest level rivalry we've ever seen.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 19 2013 12:10 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 10:20 Dodgin wrote:
Soulkey vs Innovation is about as much of a rivalry as MKP vs Mvp at this point Every Soulkey Innovation game is really close, so I wouldn't classify it as that. Also Soulkey has taken the most important series so far (GSL). It's definitely the highest level rivalry we've ever seen.
Actually their macro games are not even close.
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Soulkey/innovation is a lot like MVP/Nestea was in 2011. MVP pretty much always won but the games/series were usually very close. It's also similar in that win-rate wise Nestea/Soulkey look/looked bad in ZvT even though they were/are the best in that matchup. (Yes Nestea was better than DRG. DRG just didn't have to play MVP 20 times throughout 2011.)
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On August 19 2013 03:07 Black Gun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 02:53 PerSe wrote:On August 19 2013 02:46 Black Gun wrote:
holy shit.
innovation vs soulkey is quickly becoming the leessang rok of sc2. awesome! Yes with one problem: SK has like lost the last 6 matches against Inno. this totally reminds me of jd vs flash: jd won their first MSL finals encounter, but lost the following 3 consecutive finals in which they faced off.
That went on a lot longer though. All of this has been within the last year. o;
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On August 19 2013 12:14 JJH777 wrote:
Soulkey/innovation is a lot like MVP/Nestea was in 2011. MVP pretty much always won but the games/series were usually very close. It's also similar in that win-rate wise Nestea/Soulkey look/looked bad in ZvT even though they were/are the best in that matchup. (Yes Nestea was better than DRG. DRG just didn't have to play MVP 20 times throughout 2011.)
I think this is the more apt comparison. Nestea always almost looked like he was going to beat Mvp throughout his games only to fall late game. Soulkey/Innovation is almost exactly like that.
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WHOAAAAA the final was 2/3??????
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Sorjwa defeated >
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On August 18 2013 19:09 Packawana wrote:
No third, shredded natural, and Innovation still wins? Wat.
You know, thanks to Mules
Actually I would call this: 5M : 4M + Mules
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To be honest, watching Soulkey vs Innovation was a stressing ordeal, all I ever saw was one stupid lucky widow mine hit after the next that seem to always be so effective, its ridiculous and it wrecks the game, how can a mine shot be so much more effective then a TANK shot, this coming from a Terran player -.-
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 19 2013 19:06 PiPoGevy wrote:
To be honest, watching Soulkey vs Innovation was a stressing ordeal, all I ever saw was one stupid lucky widow mine hit after the next that seem to always be so effective, its ridiculous and it wrecks the game, how can a mine shot be so much more effective then a TANK shot, this coming from a Terran player -.-
Actually in 2nd game you could clearly tell the difference between usual innovation's widow mines and his casual ones. His so called effective widow mine hits (seriously i have seen widow mine hitting exact MIDDLE of pack of lings nearby, and no, those lings were not even close to running over mine), are actually just use of target micro. Hard as **** to pull off, but pretty darn effective.
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On August 19 2013 17:36 MasterDrone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:09 Packawana wrote:
No third, shredded natural, and Innovation still wins? Wat. You know, thanks to Mules Actually I would call this: 5M : 4M + Mules
Haha, hope this is gonna stick in a well-meaning, teasing way.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 20 2013 04:16 Daswollvieh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 17:36 MasterDrone wrote:On August 18 2013 19:09 Packawana wrote:
No third, shredded natural, and Innovation still wins? Wat. You know, thanks to Mules Actually I would call this: 5M : 4M + Mules Haha, hope this is gonna stick in a well-meaning, teasing way.
Now the real question is: What will be 6th M in LotV?
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hm, I wish Soulkey would play against someone different in TvZ from time to time. Just to know how good he actually is.
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well he played MKP in Ro8 and pretty much destroyed him
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zgVWbHr.jpg)
