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On August 18 2013 20:06 pylonsalad wrote:
Late-game tvz is unbalanced because a 200 terran bio army will destroy a 200 zerg army every time. Widow mines ensure that the zerg cannot just engage with his entire army at once so he has to send it in small chunks. If he send too small a force, the mines won't be acivated because the bio will kill the force as it approaches so he has to measure out how big a chunk of his army to send to activate the mines before sending his main force. In the heat of the moment, as his expansions are under attack, that's really tough call to make. It's this crucial fight when both players are pretty much maxed but before zerg can afford hive units that the zerg always loses and it's because widow mines scale too good against large numbers of small units.
In a standard BW game, zerg was able to successfully defend against terran attacks only when defilers were out and until that time not all zergs survived. It was one of the most entertaining parts of the game. Nobody cried aboout imbalance and "why can't I just a-move my 200 army and win?" It should be difficult, it should be extremely difficult otherwise nobody would watch it.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:13 Arco wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:09 Tsubbi wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 NarutO wrote:On August 18 2013 19:58 ReMinD_ wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 AxionSteel wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. He played superbly. Perfect micro, perfect macro. Not sure why terran players would not appreciate such exceptional play. Perfect play? 10 Zerglings kill his Orbital Command. That's good play? Bunch of Banelings walking into his mineral line and he doesn't even react? How come we didn't witness this brilliant play versus Parting yesterday? Oh, that's right. You can't just keep producing and rallying your units to one point when playing versus Protoss. I don't want to take anything away from Innovation. He is a brilliant player, but so is Soulkey. And the results lately don't show that because match-up is too much in favor of the Terran. In last 6 matches, it's 6-0 for Innovation. Do people genuinely believe Innovation is so much better than Soulkey? In the very heavy favored WoL it was 4-0 for INnoVation. Yes I do believe INnoVation is above SoulKey in terms of skill  and in the very balanced and more skill intensive bw soulkey is 4:1 against innovation, this wont get us anywhere True statement. Also, as far as BW balance is concerned, it is considered that T>Z. + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +Soulkey is such a good player, it's a shame to see him lose games where he plays his heart out.
Oh man, this game made Soulkey's fan.
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On August 18 2013 20:11 massivez wrote:
People forget that Innovation got his ass handed to him by Maru and Parting, he's no God in anyway.
Eh, vs Maru was 50% luck at least.
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On August 18 2013 20:14 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:11 massivez wrote:
People forget that Innovation got his ass handed to him by Maru and Parting, he's no God in anyway. Eh, vs Maru was 50% luck at least.
What about Bomber vs Innovation?
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On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him.
Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life?
Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-?
Symbol looked horribly bad against Maru, KangHo beat Maru, but the game didn't matter for Maru at all. And then we have hyvaa who all ins every game or straight up loses. And... well, these were the Zerg which could be considered really strong right now :-P
Everyone else doesn't even appear in the later stages of a tournament.
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On August 18 2013 20:13 Arco wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:09 Tsubbi wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 NarutO wrote:On August 18 2013 19:58 ReMinD_ wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 AxionSteel wrote:On August 18 2013 19:45 Megiddosc wrote:
Why are you saying Innovation is just too good?
Did you honestly not watch Polt vs Jaedong? It's the exact same thing. It's definitely not just Innovation so stop fellating him fanboys. He played superbly. Perfect micro, perfect macro. Not sure why terran players would not appreciate such exceptional play. Perfect play? 10 Zerglings kill his Orbital Command. That's good play? Bunch of Banelings walking into his mineral line and he doesn't even react? How come we didn't witness this brilliant play versus Parting yesterday? Oh, that's right. You can't just keep producing and rallying your units to one point when playing versus Protoss. I don't want to take anything away from Innovation. He is a brilliant player, but so is Soulkey. And the results lately don't show that because match-up is too much in favor of the Terran. In last 6 matches, it's 6-0 for Innovation. Do people genuinely believe Innovation is so much better than Soulkey? In the very heavy favored WoL it was 4-0 for INnoVation. Yes I do believe INnoVation is above SoulKey in terms of skill and in the very balanced and more skill intensive bw soulkey is 4:1 against innovation, this wont get us anywhere True statement. Also, as far as BW balance is concerned, it is considered that T>Z. + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMcXZYhHDxg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXteaAzkzb4 Sick play from Soulkey in that game. If only StarCraft 2 had Defilers and Lurkers. Soulkey is such a good player, it's a shame to see him lose games in StarCraft 2 despite playing his heart out.
True but it is so obvious that Soulkey was far above Bogus skill in BW. Bogus just has improved SO MUCH in SC2. Rember, he did really bad during Frankenstein-League.
I really think we need Major our prophet to defend the honour of Bogus,man in this thread of heretics.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-? Symbol looked horribly bad against Maru, KangHo beat Maru, but the game didn't matter for Maru at all. And then we have hyvaa who all ins every game or straight up loses. And... well, these were the Zerg which could be considered really strong right now :-P Everyone else doesn't even appear in the later stages of a tournament.
Lol, i start to think that all zergs in Korea agreed to suck just to get themselves buffed.
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On August 18 2013 20:19 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-? Symbol looked horribly bad against Maru, KangHo beat Maru, but the game didn't matter for Maru at all. And then we have hyvaa who all ins every game or straight up loses. And... well, these were the Zerg which could be considered really strong right now :-P Everyone else doesn't even appear in the later stages of a tournament. Lol, i start to think that all zergs in Korea agreed to suck just to get themselves buffed.
Then at least they'd have an insane team spirit :-P
Because literally everyone started to suck :-P
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On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-)
HAHAHAHAHA
get out
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out
Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs.
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On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs.
If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA...
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs. If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA...
Ehem, sorry, i forgot to say play against in tournaments
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On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs. If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA...
That's why I said "maybe", because it's hard to judge how they'd do agains the Korean Terrans (Season finals will show).
But my point is just: There aren't too many Zerg who I'd consider to be stronger than Life (In this specific matchup!) and the results lately prove that quite well, IMO.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:25 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 18 2013 20:21 Aunvilgod wrote:On August 18 2013 20:17 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 20:04 p14c wrote:On August 18 2013 19:55 Swisslink wrote:On August 18 2013 19:53 Thrillz wrote:On August 18 2013 19:50 DrPandaPhD wrote:On August 18 2013 19:47 NicksonReyes wrote:
Good players <<<<<<<<<<< Better players
Game is fucking broken. Terran has like 70% winrate in Korea ZvT atm. But I guess just the better players chose Terran. E.G Sjow beating Life because Sjow is better )))))) Life is probably better at LoL than SC2 atm T.T ... and he's probably still one of the top 3 Zerg in ZvT. He's not even close. He's so bad now that even foreigners beat him. Well, which Zerg would you consider stronger than Life? Soulkey, maybe Scarlett and Jaedong and afterwards... there are no Zerg which are even "decent" in the Matchup :-) HAHAHAHAHA get out Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs. If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA... That's why I said "maybe", because it's hard to judge how they'd do agains the Korean Terrans (Season finals will show). But my point is just: There aren't too many Zerg who I'd consider to be stronger than Life and the results lately prove that quite well, IMO.
It is funny to say that, but so far it looks like soO > Life :D. Heck, soO can troll Rain now, because he did win against Maru :D
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On August 18 2013 20:14 myminerals wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:06 pylonsalad wrote:
Late-game tvz is unbalanced because a 200 terran bio army will destroy a 200 zerg army every time. Widow mines ensure that the zerg cannot just engage with his entire army at once so he has to send it in small chunks. If he send too small a force, the mines won't be acivated because the bio will kill the force as it approaches so he has to measure out how big a chunk of his army to send to activate the mines before sending his main force. In the heat of the moment, as his expansions are under attack, that's really tough call to make. It's this crucial fight when both players are pretty much maxed but before zerg can afford hive units that the zerg always loses and it's because widow mines scale too good against large numbers of small units. In a standard BW game, zerg was able to successfully defend against terran attacks only when defilers were out and until that time not all zergs survived. It was one of the most entertaining parts of the game. Nobody cried aboout imbalance and "why can't I just a-move my 200 army and win?" It should be difficult, it should be extremely difficult otherwise nobody would watch it.
That's not true. In BW, a large zerg army can fight the terran army with proper flanking. In SC2, the terran just needs to place 4-5 widow mines to the side and back of his army and flanks become useless.
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On August 18 2013 20:01 KanoCoke wrote:
Anyone with a GIF of Parting doing the FBH dance?
wasnt a dance ceremony, but very good nonetheless
![[image loading]](http://www.ultraimg.com/images/0IbwH.gif)
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On August 18 2013 20:22 monkybone wrote:
don't forget guys both these games started out with failed roach bane busts
nope. an early roach bane bust is the only way to stall the bio-ball from stomping you sooner.
it was used as/to gain a window for a tech switch. it wasn't a choice.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 18 2013 20:33 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:22 monkybone wrote:
don't forget guys both these games started out with failed roach bane busts nope. an early roach bane bust is the only way to stall the bio-ball from stomping you sooner. it was used as/to gain a window for a tech switch. it wasn't a choice.
To be fair those exact roach bane busts did put Soulkey kind-of-behind IMO.
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On August 18 2013 20:33 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 20:22 monkybone wrote:
don't forget guys both these games started out with failed roach bane busts nope. an early roach bane bust is the only way to stall the bio-ball from stomping you sooner. it was used as/to gain a window for a tech switch. it wasn't a choice.
Just getting baneling speed faster is much better.
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EPT
