On August 18 2013 21:19 Fjodorov wrote:
What bothers me as a spectator is that there is zero comeback chance for the zerg once the terran gets ahead while the terran seems to pull off "amazing" comebacks. And for those talking about brood lords in game2 plz take a look on that map and the bases and tell me how SK is going to defend them with BL against the mobile army of innovation.

What sounds "strange" to me aboutTvZ (Not whine since im protoss fan), is that terran is the race that "swarm" lower tier units on his opponent.
And people say to zerg:
"Go to higher techs".
Isnt it supposed to be the inverse?
Or am i wrong in my concepts?

Medivacs are tier 3. Widow mines are tier 2 if i'm not mistaken, same as mutalisks and banelings. Of course the terran tech tree is easier to access, but people tend to forget that without a lot of medivacs, marines are worth nothing.

On August 18 2013 20:47 Aunvilgod wrote:

On August 18 2013 20:25 Swisslink wrote:

On August 18 2013 20:24 Aunvilgod wrote:

On August 18 2013 20:22 lolfail9001 wrote:
[quote]
Well, to be fair if we do not take players JD and Scarlett get to play against into consideration we could consider 'em doing better than most of Korean zergs.

If do not take them into consideration, yes. But we do. Otherwise we could say DeMuslim is one of the best players in the world because he has an amazing winrate on NA...

That's why I said "maybe", because it's hard to judge how they'd do agains the Korean Terrans (Season finals will show).
But my point is just: There aren't too many Zerg who I'd consider to be stronger than Life (In this specific matchup!) and the results lately prove that quite well, IMO.

With the recent migration of lower level Koreans into WCS NA and EU it surely has become extremely hard to tell who is how good.
In that specific case I really doubt Either Scarlett or JD are better than Life.

Hyun, Symbol, Soulkey, soo, Kangho, TRUE, even Songduri or DRG. All performing quite well at the moment.

1st: Medivacs are not tier 3. They are tier 2. And no, starport is not tier 3. Starports with tech labs (aka banshees, ravens and BCs) are tier 3 though.
2nd: Getting into Code S is not performing well, especially considering that Soulkey for example did it on the back of his ZvZ only last season (and so did Symbol).

KangHo fits in this list with Symbol and Soulkey as well (He won against JangBi and Hurricane once each, everyone else was Zerg.). And SoO... I don't know, he held off a proxy 2-rax twice and got to Code S. No idea how strong he'd be in a normal game, tbh.
To be brutally honest, I don't see anyone beside Hyun/Soulkey in this list who I expect to reach the Season 3 finals. And Hyun has to get to premier first xD

I will laugh so hard if we actually end up with no zergs at Blizzcon. That would be glorious imo.

I think Soulkey is a lock

Jaedong will probably also be a lock if EG keeps on sending him to every single tournament with WCS points.

Considering the volatility of WCS Europe (seriously, Ro16 players dropping out :D) i won't wonder if we get no zergs from Europe. Soulkey will most likely go, yep, JD... well, it depends how many times he will meet Polt :D

Pandain

United States12989 Posts

August 19 2013 03:10 GMT

#649

On August 19 2013 10:20 Dodgin wrote:
Soulkey vs Innovation is about as much of a rivalry as MKP vs Mvp at this point

Every Soulkey Innovation game is really close, so I wouldn't classify it as that. Also Soulkey has taken the most important series so far (GSL).

It's definitely the highest level rivalry we've ever seen.

lolfail9001

Russian Federation40190 Posts

August 19 2013 03:14 GMT

#650

On August 19 2013 12:10 Pandain wrote:

Show nested quote +

Actually their macro games are not even close.

JJH777

United States4420 Posts

August 19 2013 03:14 GMT

#651

Soulkey/innovation is a lot like MVP/Nestea was in 2011. MVP pretty much always won but the games/series were usually very close. It's also similar in that win-rate wise Nestea/Soulkey look/looked bad in ZvT even though they were/are the best in that matchup. (Yes Nestea was better than DRG. DRG just didn't have to play MVP 20 times throughout 2011.)

StarStruck

25339 Posts

August 19 2013 03:19 GMT

#652

On August 19 2013 03:07 Black Gun wrote:

Show nested quote +

this totally reminds me of jd vs flash: jd won their first MSL finals encounter, but lost the following 3 consecutive finals in which they faced off.

That went on a lot longer though. All of this has been within the last year. o;

Packawana

United States1081 Posts

August 19 2013 03:51 GMT

#653

On August 19 2013 12:14 JJH777 wrote:
Soulkey/innovation is a lot like MVP/Nestea was in 2011. MVP pretty much always won but the games/series were usually very close. It's also similar in that win-rate wise Nestea/Soulkey look/looked bad in ZvT even though they were/are the best in that matchup. (Yes Nestea was better than DRG. DRG just didn't have to play MVP 20 times throughout 2011.)

I think this is the more apt comparison. Nestea always almost looked like he was going to beat Mvp throughout his games only to fall late game. Soulkey/Innovation is almost exactly like that.

tshi

United States2495 Posts

August 19 2013 04:56 GMT

#654

WHOAAAAA the final was 2/3??????

Mariosatr

294 Posts

August 19 2013 07:15 GMT

#655

Sorjwa defeated >

MasterDrone

France50 Posts

August 19 2013 08:36 GMT

#656

On August 18 2013 19:09 Packawana wrote:
No third, shredded natural, and Innovation still wins? Wat.

You know, thanks to Mules

Actually I would call this: 5M : 4M + Mules

AssyrianKing

Australia2117 Posts

August 19 2013 10:06 GMT

#657

To be honest, watching Soulkey vs Innovation was a stressing ordeal, all I ever saw was one stupid lucky widow mine hit after the next that seem to always be so effective, its ridiculous and it wrecks the game, how can a mine shot be so much more effective then a TANK shot, this coming from a Terran player -.-

lolfail9001

Russian Federation40190 Posts

August 19 2013 16:52 GMT

#658

On August 19 2013 19:06 PiPoGevy wrote:
To be honest, watching Soulkey vs Innovation was a stressing ordeal, all I ever saw was one stupid lucky widow mine hit after the next that seem to always be so effective, its ridiculous and it wrecks the game, how can a mine shot be so much more effective then a TANK shot, this coming from a Terran player -.-

Actually in 2nd game you could clearly tell the difference between usual innovation's widow mines and his casual ones. His so called effective widow mine hits (seriously i have seen widow mine hitting exact MIDDLE of pack of lings nearby, and no, those lings were not even close to running over mine), are actually just use of target micro. Hard as **** to pull off, but pretty darn effective.